Work permit vaccine mandate ‘soon come’
(CNS): Government is expecting to steer an amendment to the immigration law through Parliament shortly to make vaccination against COVID-19 mandatory for employees on new and renewed work permits. Premier Wayne Panton said Thursday that the draft legislative change is already on his desk and that government would be invoking a special circumstances exception to the constitutional requirement of 28 days consultation on all bills.
With little opposition and broad support for all permit holders to be vaccinated, he hopes to have the amendment passed by the middle of August. But there are no plans to enforce vaccination on others in the workforce.
Speaking at the Cayman Island Tourism Association (CITA) meeting on Thursday, Panton confirmed that the proposal would become a reality within the next three weeks or so, as government can suspend the requirement for the four-week public consultation for all proposed legislation because of the exceptional circumstances surrounding this issue
Government has already taken advice regarding the human rights issues, and given that there are already certain mandated health requirements for work permit holders, the addition of a vaccine is not believed to present any legal issues.
Once passed, all first time work permit applications will need to include a verifiable vaccination certificate, while employers renewing permits for existing staff will also need to ensure that their employees are vaccinated before submitting the renewal. The introduction of such a mandate is expected to boost take-up of the vaccine over the coming weeks, since workers now know that to keep or acquire a job they will need both doses of the vaccine.
The government will not, however, expand the mandatory requirement beyond work permit holders, as there are more legal issues relating to local staff. Tourism Minister Kenneth Bryan pointed out that it remained a sensitive area for some Caymanians, and government does not want to add more barriers for local people to find work or make Caymanians jobless because they have not been vaccinated, as he pointed to continued efforts to use persuasion rather than coercion across the local community.
Labour Minister Chris Saunders noted that there are contractual obligations that employers must consider before they try to mandate vaccinations for all staff, and said that government would not legally be able to obligate civil servants to be vaccinated either.
The issue was raised by the CITA board, as they pointed to moves by A.L. Thompson’s hardware store to push staff towards being vaccinated. The owner, Al Thompson, has not mandated that his staff get their shots but he has asked for all of his employees to reveal their vaccination status and has implied that this year’s employee bonuses will be tied to that status.
The issue of vaccination passports and certification is controversial, but private sector organisations, such as bars, cinemas, clubs, restaurants and sports venues, can in theory mandate vaccines for entrance.
Mandatory vaccination tied to people’s livelihoods presents a legal challenge that some also see as a step too far, given the range of reasons for vaccine hesitancy. However, making vaccines a condition of engaging in social or fun pastimes may become an issue in Cayman once the borders are open.
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Category: Health, Laws, Medical Health, Politics
You want to see the vax rate hit 80 or maybe even 90%? Simple, Open the damn border.
The 3rd option -people who work with the public and who do not want to be vaccinated should be have the alternative of daily PCR tests at their own expense. That way the community is protected and individual’s choice is also protected. Anybody who does not want to get vaccinated or be tested should find a job that does not require interaction with the public.
I have lost so much due to the shutting down of my tourism business. I don’t believe my family will ever recover. I am not anti-vax but very much believe that everyone must make their own choice. I would love the borders to open tomorrow, but it would never want a person forced to take the vaccine to keep their livelihood.
Again, this is for work permit holders only..They have a choice. They can stay here and work if they like but if they are not vaccinated when their permit expires it will not be renewed. They have a CHOICE..They can get the vaccine or find a job somewhere else.
We have to do what’s best for us as a country.
@12:20pm
So true…It is happening all over the world with many countries particularly those in Europe. Everyone wants this pandemic behind us and we need to do the responsible thing and get vaccinated. If for no other reason than to minimise your symptoms and/or hospital stay should you contract the virus.
work permit holder now, yes, but what happens if they want the civil service and or your children next, still okay?
If you work for the civil service, yo should have been on of the first ones to get vaccinated. You are the only ones guaranteed jobs and if government has to shut down places like the GAB there could be a lot of people out of work.
This is not De Santis Florida where the Governor rules with an iron fist. That idiot is going to the opposite extreme and mandating that children not wear masks in schools. All this with Florida being the epicentre of Covid in the States with thousands of younger people hospitalized and dying once again from covid. My only thought with this DeSentis guy is that he is trying be as ignorant and stupid as Trump to get the Patriots to support him in the next election…that is if Trump doesn’t kick hi butt to the curb before that happens.
Some permit holders are not living out of a suitcase and working as a server. If you’ve raised your children here, built a house, invested in the community and integrated into the society it’s quite a bit more complicated. Your respons is very callous.
Further, the delta variant is said to be far more contagious than all others and will therefore be the dominant strain if it’s not already. Vaccinated indivduals spread the delta variant as much as unvaccinated so forcing vaccinations has become moot. So what’s the rationale now?
I see this so often and I am wondering if it is a cultural blindness. You say things like this but don’t see the glaring hole in the logic because it is an “expat” or “work permit” related issue. So if it is that – then those are second class human beings and we can do whatever. That is a disgusting attitude.
And your “logic” – “We have to do what’s best for us as a country” is the kicker – because it is used so often. And it DOESN’T HOLD WATER.
You say they need to get vaccines or no work permit – to ensure we are safer/healthier here – but don’t apply that same requirement to Caymanians. Why not? Are they somehow less prone to get and spread COVID?
Let’s try a much older one that has had me laughing for years – work permit holders must get an HIV test (among others) to prove they are not importing HIV. To protect our Caymanian people. But we don’t test Caymanians who have lived abroad and return. We don’t test stay over guests who visit for weeks or longer. How are you assuming those two groups, as a start, are not actively infected and spreading it around?
So you have a measure that says “I am doing something about this” but you are applying it in such a way that makes no logical sense and is, frankly, revealing your level of inherent bigotry toward anyone who is not Caymanian.
Just sad.
As a Caymanian I stand with you. Don’t paint with a broad brush.
This is interesting. I recently went into a salon this weekend to get my hair done and it was ONLY Jamaican hair stylists and barbers employed who are all on work permits. They all had a debate of refusing to take this vaccine with a lot of propaganda to support their argument. I now wonder how they are feeling and if it is time for me to find a new salon with vaccinated employees only! LOL
I go to a Govt dental clinic where the receptionist is Caymanian, has never worn a face mask (although all patients are required to wear one), and absolutely refuses to be vaccinated.Presumably the HSA must have no problem with this.
She should be fired, plain and simple. I was under the impression that the HSA had already implemented that..I’m going across there today and if she is there unmasked I’m reporting it right away. That’s just crazy!
I totally agree. The Jamaican guy that cleans my pool started to give me reasons why I shouldn’t take the vaccine and I asked him why he won’t take it, only to be barraged by a bunch of nonsensical foolishness. With the borders opening soon and because he is not vaccinated and my elderly father lives with me and likes to sit out by the pool, I have asked the pool company to send me someone else that is vaccinated.
They can remain unvaccinated, I couldn’t care less but don’t come around my loved ones or me with your conspiracy theories and stupidness about magnets sticking to your body. There is no guarantee any of us will not get it once the borders are open but I sure as hell will be doing my part to protect myself wherever and whenever I can.
Racist
How do you know the poster is racist? She/he may be the same nationality as their pool guy. Non of the commentary inferred any racial content.
Stop your inflammatory comments and try to develop some cognitive ability to understand what you are reading.
Racists?? Didn’t know not wanting someone un-vaccinated in your home was rascist. geesh..
AMEN!!!
I refuse to have anyone unvaccinated enter my house to do work and make a conscious effort to only go to bars and restaurants where I know the staff are vaccinated.
9:00
get off your high horse and start learning how to cut your hair yourself… and clean your pool…and fix your a/c… and your car! NOBODY owes you anything, let alone a special treatment
“NOBODY owes you anything, let alone a special treatment”
Actually as he/she is paying for the service of pool cleaning, then once yu have paid they do owe you.
I have to say I have never phoned Pool Patrol for them to tell me to clean the pool myself and they don’t want customers.
I guess your business they must just take customer money and then refuse to do the work you were paid for. Great Business Plan, LoL
I just read the story before this and it stated that Minister Sabrina said no forced vaccinations?? Why is the Premier delivering a different message?
No forced vaccinations for Caymanians – not inconsistent at all 😉 Expats cant vote, bobo, so PACT don’t care.
FFS! The vaccinations are not be forced!!! Try to get that through your thick unvaccinated skulls!
If you are on a work permit you have a choice to get vaccinated before your next renewal or your permit will not be renewed. Nobody is going to hold you down and stick a needle in your arm..
Read the article…yes they’re being forced!
No – just take away my livelihood, whilst at the same time allowing the Caymanian working alongside me to keep working unvaccinated. Depends how you define “forced” – but ones thing for sure; no one forcing him to do anything.
if someone tells me to take the vaccine now in front of them, or they will shoot me.
using your logic, he is not forcing me to take the vaccine as I still have a choice.
hummmmmmm
Blaming unvaccinated people for border closures is nonsense. I do t know any non vaccinated person that has the power to close the borders. Stop following the herd and open your eyes, the Governor and dr lee are making up percentage requirements out of thin air…there is no reason for the borders not to have opened months ago, the virus isn’t going kill anyone who’s not vulnerable, and they know they’re vulnerable and likely shield or have been vaccinated
Blaming non vaccinated is such an idiotic and naive thought process, the Governor probably can’t believe his luck he’s got a scapegoat
CNS: The unvaccinated don’t have the power to close the borders but they are the reason for the decision to keep it closed. Get vaccinated.
Thank you CNS
No, CNS is not being logical – the OP is. CNS is falling into the same emotional trap of associating a government policy decision with the actions of an easy to blame minority. I think the anti vaxxers are nots, and I resent the fact that their refusal to get vaccinated causes societal risks, but the solution is simple – either allow them the freedom of choice but remove the consequences for others and open anyway, or compel.
Just because the government (or more likely Dr Lee) says its the percentage of unvaccinated that makes keeping the borders closed necessary does not make it the unvaccinated’ s fault. You go down that route and its a dangerous path – government starts justifying all sorts of thing on the lack of co-operation of the minority.
CIG could open the border tomorrow if they wanted to – sure, there would be very negative health consequences for the unvaccinated, but it still doesn’t make their “fault”. Its a CIG policy choice, dressed up as somehow being out of the governments hands because of the non co-operation of the minority and a supposed limitation in law that prevents compulsion. Limitations of law somehow wasn’t a problem when CIG locked us all up. Limitations of law hasn’t prevented other governments saying government employees must be vaccinated or take frequent tests. But you mean to tell me that CIG is powerless to either open the border, or provide a stick as well as a carrot to the get the vaccinated numbers to the level where they feel happy? Pull the other one – its got bells on it.
Jotnar, you are full of crap. Even if you fail to recognize it the government is keeping the borders closed more so for your protection that the vaccinated.
Like CNS said…Get Vaccinated!
I am vaccinated – and as I said don’t agree with the anti vaxxers, and would be perfectly happy if the border opened tomorrow – but the OP is right; people and CNS blaming the anti vaxxers for what is a policy choice by government. They can mandate vaccination if they want, but choose not to, whilst blaming the anti vaxxers for the consequences.
You are doing the same thing – throwing a rock at me because you don’t like the consequences or the truth and want someone to blame. Well, blame the CNO or the Premier – the people who have the authority to make the decision. Blaming me or the anti vaxxers is going to get you absolutely nowhere, dude. If the government doesnt change the rules, or impose some incentives for people to get vaccinated, the game isn’t going to change.
Umm – don’t remember the unvaccinated deciding that 80% had to be vaccinated before the border opened, or that the border should be shut. Isn’t that the point – its not the unvaccinated making the decision; its the government. Who picked the 80% rule? Who decided to change the population stats before setting the 80% rule? Who decided to make it 80% of the entire population, including those who cannot even receive the vaccine? But lets blame the 8-9% of the eligible population who can either not be vaccinated or choose not to, as if its their decision. Blaming a minority always a popular fall back. Now apparently its the expatriate populations fault – even though no one has been keeping tabs on the residence status of those that choose to get vaccinated versus those who do not.
The decision for government to keep it closed based on an unattainable goal is the issue, not the unvaccinated.
Everyone has had the opportunity and made their choice, now open the borders.
I suspect if a hard deadline is set, regardless of percent vaccinated, you will suddenly see an increase in vaccinations, as those holding out may have a change of mind based on the new level of risk they will be presented with when borders open.
“Scott Gottlieb, MD @ScottGottliebMD, July 31, 2021
Study: post-vax delta breakthrough infections are infrequent and when they occur, they’re typically shorter in duration (with less potential for spread) than in unvaccinated. “Vaccination is associated with faster decline in viral RNA load.””
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1421537754522001416
We all know this if we are reasonably educated sensible people, but sadly there is a large contingent on here of anti vax lie spreaders who are impossible to get to accept facts and keep spreading misinformation about vaccinated people posing the same risks as unvaccinated. We have had vaccines available since January.., in any developed country elsewhere in the world we would be open and every adult would be vaccinated. I think it’s realistic to conclude the selfish unvaccinated people won’t change sadly. It comes down to lack of education,
Click the link to see the graphs. Tells the whole story.
(The tweet is from Scott Gottlieb, former head of the FDA and on the board of Pfizer. He is on CNBC several times a week, and every Sunday morning on CBS Face the Nation. One of the most trusted voices on the pandemic).
He is a Pfizer director, I am sure there is nothing about this that creates a conflict of interest. Sheep say what…..
You are a complete idiot. Look at the charts in the third-party study included in his tweet.
Scott is the former head of the FDA in the US and one of the most respected and prescient voices on the pandemic. That is why the Wall Street Journal, CNBC and CBS etc turn to him for his views. One of the most balanced and rational speakers on Covid, which is why he is on US network TV in front of millions every week.
Avoid clickbait and follow Scott.
Yes, he is all of those things and a Pfizer director! This is literally on the Pfizer website.
https://www.pfizer.com/people/leadership/board-of-directors/scott_gottlieb-md
All of your heroes are corrupt lil sheep
Yes, he is a director of Pfizer, as he discloses at the start of every interview and directly on his twitter page.
He is a director because of his extensive medical knowledge, after heading the FDA.
“corrupt lil sheep”. You need help.
Because the msm and big pharma don’t lie all the time.
Big Pharma pays the bills. Sorry but I take paid shills for what they are.
It is ridiculous and absurd that Cayman has not yet opened up. Here are the official stats of most vaccinated countries (as proportion of eligible population as reported in the SUnday Times today):
1. Gibraltar 100%
2. Pitcairn 100%
3. Malta 90.4%
4. Iceland 78.9%
5. UAE 78.3%
6. Isle of Man 76.3%
7. CAYMAN ISLANDS 76%
We have one of the highest vaccination rates in the world. As a comparison of some countries where things are 100 open, vaccine passports in place for some things and travel being freely allowed with negative tests and vaccine adrds:
UK: 68.9%
EUROPE as a whole 48.8%
HIGH INCOME DEVELOPED COUNTRIES as a whole 53.7%
Also, we know Pfizer is effective in avoiding death/hospitalisation against Delta. The bigger concern for European countries is Beta variant, hence why the UK put France on a watchlist last week, as that South African strain was thought to be better at beating vaccines, but a Canadian study today confirmed the Oxford vaccine, which some think is not quite as effective as Pfizer, is highly effective against the Beta strain.
Open the borders. Again we are all forced to book ‘ghost flights’ on BA again now for after September 9 travel dates before the prices get crazy again, and no risk as we know we can change for free until 2023 or get a refund easily online, but it’s a pain not knowing 100% if we will be able to actually fly in terms of planning vacation time off work and things. Ridiculous.
9:46, Our misfortune is that we are next to the gateway to Cayman, Florida. 22,000 new COVID cases today.
Until Florida gets it act together we must remain closed. Only
49% of Floridians are vaccinated. Stupid Governor leading the way.
There is no way we can open and handle thousands of COVID cases in our hospitals here.
Best answer is for everyone here to get vaccinated.
Governor DeSantis is leading his people like lemmings off the cliff. The Florida hospital system is breaking down and Florida is headed for the COVID abyss with only 49% of their population vaccinated.
KEEP CAYMAN CLOSED. WE CANNOT OPEN TO FLORIDA.
Get vaccinated people!
So they have about the same number of hospitalizations as the peak before the vaccines. The natural question would be how many hospitalizations were fully vaccinated.. Without that data, one might conclude the vaccines aren’t working.
CNS: This info is in most of the articles from Florida that I have found. The correlation between states with rising hospitalizations and low vaccination rates is undeniable unless you are deluding yourself.
Florida leads nation in COVID infections, hospitalizations as patients get younger
Tampa General Hospital reports 100 COVID-19 patients as of Friday, 46 of whom are in the intensive care unit and 10 are on ventilators. The number of cases has more than doubled from two weeks ago, said hospital spokesperson Philip Buck.
He said 80 percent of the hospital’s COVID-19 patients are unvaccinated. The vaccinated patients who fell ill tend to have other conditions, such as those who have had transplants or are oncology patients.
The median age of COVID-19 patients in Tampa General’s intensive care unit is 42, Buck said. Last year most were in their mid-70s.
Im okay with the ones that follow him to go off a cliff…..
7:59, Natural selection and the idiot gene being eliminated. Good for the human race.
The truth is they are targeting premit holders to reach your 80% to reopen the badder using people like scapegoats
Wait? When did we get to 76%..that’s awful close to 80%…oh the statistics that are used to justify foolishness..FFS. you know that number isn’t right..
Eligible population vs this governments total population target. Two very different things.
Since Jamaica is not on the approved vaccination certificate list, does that mean Jamaicans will not be allowed to apply for work permits?
not if they have had the Vaccines in Cayman
So when will you be passing the law to make all Caymanians in Civil Service vaccinated? How about all MLAs? Let them know that being honorable for life has a price. Or is the choice an entitlement? Honest question.
So. Many. Doctors.
I think the government,met should impose an unvaccinated tax. Say 5% of income to cover the increased hospital costs.
Sounds good, as long as the money is reimbursed if the individual was not hospitalized.
Hmmm, with all those thumbs down looks like a lot of anti Vaxers here!!
9.32 You’ve pulled the wool from my eyes with your passionate letter and in a flash I realized that my mandatory vaccinations while growing up for Mumps, Rubella, Measles, Smallpox, Tetanus, Polio, Yellow Fever, Diptheria, Pertussis and Meningitis were an unconscionable assault on my human rights. I will never forgive the authorities who did this to me. I might even have died.
But even worse, your human rights were violated because you had to wear a mask.Such terrible abuse by the state.
I cry for you and all the other snowflakes.
“Mandatory vaccination tied to people’s livelihoods presents a legal challenge that some also see as a step too far.” So what about the rights and livelihoods of the person who has lost their job or their business and are left with little of no income until Cayman reaches the 80% vaccination rate? Only then can they start to pick up the pieces of their lives?
The unvaccinated are having an increasingly damaging effect on the lives of thousands of people, especially those who work in the hospitality and retail industries. Is the whole island to be held to ransom? We should announce an opening date, giving enough time and opportunity for all to get vaccinated, while leaving the holdouts to take their chances with the Covid Variant.
We need the private sector to step up here, all companies in cayman should be saying to employees that they have until September 9 to get both jabs or they will be fired, the cinema, shops, restaurants, nightclubs, public transport and taxi drivers, supermarkets should be saying that starting on September 9, if you are able to be vaccinated but not then you will be refused entry. Any government support stipend should only go to vaccinated. All hotels and rental apartments should mandate vaccines for any staycations, renters and staff. It’s not difficult… please step up and be responsible and do the right thing here as a business society Cayman.
100%…WOODY,RANDY,DART,KIRKS/CUC/FLOW let’s start with you…Get your employees vaccinated before we re-open..
RITZ?
Closed until November
Closed till November 2022 thanks to stupidity in Florida.
Closed until November because there is no way they can afford to stay open with the borders shut. The stupidity isn’t in Florida.
Actually closed for a 50m dollar refurbishment
That’s sounds so interesting it would be such a thrill to watch. Do you have any idea how much of your essential services are carried out by expats? The same people you would have fired by September 9 if they don’t take the vaccines. Have you any idea what would happen to the sweet sweet Cayman Islands if all the doctors, nurses, police, etc. decided to put your tough talk to the test and stopped working on September 9?
That ill thought out, insane comment of yours, would make a huge amount of Caymanians jobless and homeless, if it was implemented. Is this really what you want ? Think things through before you write garbage like that.
Why would they be jobless? They just need to get vaccinated if no health reasons for not being able to get the vaccine, and then would have nothing to worry about. Why would they lose their jobs if vaccinated under this proposed plan?
They probably do not want to take it !!Which part of that don’t you understand. Also 0ther people’s health choices are non of your business
Except they are in a public health situation.
We too are leaving here. Not just because of this but because of the general anti expat sentiment here. And we are taking our money to invest where we are welcome. I am but one person but there are lots that think like I do. Cayman has an awful political elite that discriminate against expats and push an anti expat rhetoric that is dividing these islands.
Shame, Cayman is actually very welcoming to expats, but you do need to try and get to know a few Caymanians, not just mingle with your ilk.
In the decades that I’ve lived here, I’ve attended hundreds of going away parties only to have those same people who left return…or try to return…HUNDREDS and I’m just one person.
Wtf are you talking about, Cayman is racist as hell
Shame, being a Caymanian makes you an expert at all things except being an expat and it shows. People do not come to Cayman because of the rudeness and disrespect shown to them. They come for the island life. 12 years total on island so far in a house I built for myself and my family. I also plan on leaving until the island is functional again like hundreds before and after me. And I am also just one person.
This is the final straw for us also. $8500 a month in rent and $7000 a month will be spent elsewhere as soon as the airport is opened.
Goodbye Cayman
Nice. The rent may drop a bit when you leave.
oh geesh, cry me a river..doesn’t sound like you are hurting too much if you are paying $8500..What’s the other $7K for? Is that another made up figure..
I sure with the amount of money you are earning in order to pay that kind of rent you could have jumped on one of your friends private jets and been out of here long ago..
I’m an expat here and I have no problems with Caymanians. I bet if I was to ask you how many of them you know personally you could name one. It embarrasses me to see how the Caymanian people are treated. I have found them to be nothing but welcoming and I absolutely love it here. I’m from Florida and right now what I see going on there and having family members die because of this terrible virus, I am very happy to be here. If the only thing that the Caymanians are asking of me is to take a free vaccine to protect myself and those around me, I believe that is the least I can do particularly since he vaccine has been the best protection against the virus and it is less likely that I will be hospitalized. The limited amount of ICU beds on this islands are not enough for mass amounts of full blown corona virus patients.
The figures the person posting works out as about 180k a year, how would anyone be able to fly private on that income? Your reply makes no sense
Depends where you are going. If you are so desperate to leave you can go to MIA or FLL on a charter for about $8500, half your monthly spend.
Love to know where you get that figure from – you would struggle to get even a small aircraft for less than $20K.
There are some straws that are adding up to cause me to plan a move in the future, the handling of the pandemic is certainly not one of them.
The pros have so far have outweighed the cons but:
Cost of living
Cost of healthcare
Traffic
Will your job be advertised shortly?
No, it’s going with me.
Anony pure rubbish…Anon said the same thing when we made that horrible decision to lock down. Turns out that decision and the subsequent management of the COVID-19 crisis has been world class.
You are not going anywhere and you know it. This is the land of milk and honey.
Get your little jab!
You spend 8500 on rent on rent and only spend an additional 7k elsewear? That doesn’t make sense, you should be spending more than that! Good riddance!
I’m surprised you didn’t say you were leaving as soon as your Gulfstream is refueled.
They literally dont make enough for one. Math isn’t a strong point with you hey?
Glad to be rid of your unvaccinated ras. Your money ain’t worth the risk you present to the community.
So true. Its not just anti expat they are also super racist against white caymanians. Growing up here as a white caymanian was horrible. Cant wait untill I’m allowed to leave my home and never come back. This place is toxic and I would never want my children to experience it.
Try Jamaica or Honduras then.
Get them all.
The point that you miss is that the unvaccinated get so sick that they overwhelm the health systems so any one with a “normal” health issue stands a good chance of not getting treatment at all. So the unvaccinated must get in step and receive a vaccination before that happens. If the government issues that directive that’s proper for the safety of the rest of us.
Cayman Islands Roll-Over Phase 2.0, economic refugees have choices.
You got pension pay-out option.
This was always coming since May 2021.
Move on, nothing to see here.
I have always heard this none sense, and to prove to you that it is in fact nonsense; why don’t the government propose that unvaccinated persons sign a document stating that they should not be admitted in the hospitals for Covid-19 related illnesses? Wouldn’t that solve the issue of hospital resources being maxed out on people who refuse to be vaccinated?
Or you could just shoot them? Would that finally make you happy? Rhetorical question as it is clear that it would. That would teach them to question your choice.
I hear you. More and more I think there would be support for a Cayman Purge.
I am disgusted with what people say these days. No unity whatsoever.
This just feels so wrong.
Probably because it is _ things that are morally wrong tend to cause that reaction.
9.32 this is a complete misreading of the data.
An unvaccinated person has an 8 times more chance of being infected and 8 times more chance of infecting others compared with a vaccinated person.
This is key point
Source: Bob Wachter Chair University of California, San Francisco Dept of Medicine
Post-vaccination infections can occur. Vaccines are not 100% but they prevent a VAST majority of infections, transmission, and NEARLY all hospitalizations and deaths. Vaccinated individuals have a 25-fold reduction in risk of death, a 25-fold reduction in risk of hospitalization,and an 8-fold reduction in risk of disease. That speaks for itself. We are currently looking at ~88% effectiveness against symptomatic infection and ~90-95% effectiveness against severe disease and ~75-80% effectiveness at preventing any infection.
Testing has come to a grinding halt for the most part except for those who present with symptoms, you are seeing infections in the unvaccinated because they turning up symptomatic. (Make sense so far?) Those are the facts. Nobody is arguing the hospitalizations or the death rates (standby for that) the argument is whether or not vaccinated individuals are spreading the virus at the same rate. According to the latest information it appears that they are. With that in mind, an unvaccinated person poses no greater risk to anyone other then themselves.
No, no, you are not understanding what CDC reported this week. CDC was comparing breakthrough infections in the vaccinated versus infected unvaccinated. But the CDC showed there was an 8-fold reduction in infections in vaccinated vs unvaccinated (8 times as likely to get infected if unvaccinated vs unvaccinated).
So if you have a group of 100 unvaccinated people and a group of 100 vaccinated people, and, say, 24 of the unvaccinated get infected over the next six months, the data suggests only 3 (24 divided by 8) of the vaccinated people would get a breakthrough infection.
So there is substantial less community spread with a vaccinated population!! (and if vaccinated and get infected, substantially less likely to be hospitalized)
https://theweek.com/coronavirus/1003208/the-misleading-conclusions-being-drawn-from-the-cdcs-internal-delta-variant
@1:09pm your quote: “ With that in mind, an unvaccinated person poses no greater risk to anyone other then themselves”.
The unvaccinated are putting these islands at risk of economic disaster. Many have lost their businesses and jobs or are at the brink of doing do. So yes, the unvaccinated are selfishly creating economic terrorism and are not bright enough to know that they will suffer as well! SMH
Thank you for this. This was directly out of the CDC information released yesterday.
The sentence below is what the billboards in Cayman should be displaying when promoting the vaccine, as well as a banner on CNS and the Compass…
“Vaccinated individuals have a 25-fold reduction in risk of death, a 25-fold reduction in risk of hospitalization, and an 8-fold reduction in risk of disease.”
If you are vaccinated, you have an 8-fold chance reduction in getting infected in the first place (if you are not infected, you cant pass it on!). So for the small percentage of the vaccinated that get a breakthrough infection, they can pass on the virus — but most vaccinated are not getting infected in the first place.
And if a vaccinated person gets infected, they have a substantially lower chance of a bad outcome (hospital/death).
Exactly. We.l said. Just look at the uk. 2 weeks fully open and now pretty much all the severe cases and hospitalisations are unvaccinated people under the age of 35. I don’t know why people keep arguing with facts – Covid has been going on for over a year now and all the data from other countries and in cayman where loads of us have had the vaccine with no issues at all shows that 1. Vaccines work 2. They reduce risk of transmission illness and death and 3. It’s clear there had to be life restrictions for the unvaccinated when a country opens up, even if that is just daily negative tests.
If you had understood the science behind prevalent immune pressure and why it is driving more infectious variants, then you would know why these types of vaccines should not be giving in a mass vaccination format, and your tune would be a bit different.
Forcing vaccinations on a particular group is a grotesque use of government power. This is not the same as an HIV test so let’s not play games with what’s going on here. It’s a well studied experiment but an experiment nonetheless and the effects seem to be evolving on a daily basis and not for the better. It would be one thing to impose the requirement for new permits because there’s no investment by either party and no harm done to those who don’t wish to participate but to do it retrograde is even more dispicable.
Now considering the latest developments where it’s become somewhat apparent that non-vaccinated people pose no greater threat to others as vaccinated people the government has now lost any rational to impose this if it ever had one. This is a very dangerous precedent and those in charge seem to lack rationality or morality or both. In light of the latest information I hope the government will reconsider their position before it’s too late.
The solution is to force them on everyone. Not make them mandatory. Just make it clear only vaccinated can travel and freely attend public events and work in public facing jobs. Seems entirely reasonable to me. The vaccine passport concept will be world wide and accepted by Christmas… how else can you beat the pandemic? Covid is going nowhere and it is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
When will the anti-vaxxers realize they are already enrolled in the experiment. They are now the control group…
No one is forcing anything. They are just saying you have to be vaccinated to do certain things. Do you think we can have unvaccinated serving tourists or driving taxis or working in bars and shops when we open? Of course we can’t. It’s common sense.
But if the tourists and passengers are vaccinated what would be the risk to them? Do you see the madness behind the drama? If you are vaccinated why would an unvaccinated person be of any threat to you? Do you not trust your own vaccine?
Yeah…like be able to live and buy food. No big deal. Eventually, they’ll die of starvation but….hey population reduced, 80% target reached and then we’ll see if government reopens…oh wait, that’s after you all get your boosters of course as that will be the next requirement to be categorized as “fully vaccinated”
It’s not a choice so much anymore as it is a threat.
So the vaccinated can transmit the disease. Doesn’t make the unvaccinated less of a public health concern. The vaccinated are 8 times less likely to catch the disease according to that latest data. And if they do, significantly less likely to be hospitalized – 25 times less likely – and consume the limited resources we have available for the vulnerable risk groups who don’t have the choice over whether to get vaccinated. Two good reasons why as a matter of public policy doing everything you can to get those eligible for the vaccine vaccinated is not “despicable “ – it’s in the public interest.
Care to explain the CDC report out Massachusettes from this month? 74% of those infected were fully vaccinated. Your 8 fold figure is quickly falling into the misinformation file which unfortunately seems to be the norm rather than the exception for the CDC and the WHO in the fullness of time.
CNS: Another commenter responded with this to a similar comment: Sure, but don’t assume that there were an equal number of vaccinated and unvaccinated persons exposed in the cluster outbreak. Given the relatively higher levels of vaccinated persons in the New England area, it would actually stand to reason that it is more likely that vaccinated persons were exposed, simply because they are the majority in that region. What’s notable is that there were no deaths, a minority hospitalized, and most had no symptoms, indicating that the vaccines are working well against the Delta variant.
In the Rhode Island study you are looking at a hugely liberal demographic. This was a a big LGTQ event. So, nearly everyone was vaccinated. It just shows how contagious the delta variant is. If anything this should encourage unvaccinated persons to get the jab.
Sorry but this is the most flawed math/reasoning I’ve seen in a while. The vax rate is 71% in Massachusettes and 74% of the cases were in vaccinated people. We’re talking about a 3% difference out of 100 and not in the direction you would expect much less 8 fold.
“The vaccinated are 8 times less likely to catch the disease”
Thus on this alone far more unlikely to spread the virus.
Nobody is forcing anything on anybody. Coming here to work is a choice.
Very well said !!
I am a work permit holder and under no circumstances will I be taking these experimental injections. Shame on you Patton and your cronies for this abuse of power, and soon to be medical apartheid .You can’t persuade your own people to take them ,even when you try to bribe them with a tacky prize draw. Try reading the data on the UK MRHA yellow card. It’s obvious you have done absolutely no research on this.
Bye then. You’ll be replaced by a person with a better attitude and more intelligence.
Amen..some of these people think they are irreplaceable..
Every day companies are hiring more and more expats who want to come here for a better and not be disrespectful and grateful to the people that live here.
@5:16am if it is mandated you will have a CHOICE. If you want to remain here you will get the vaccine if not your work permit will not be renewed and you will have to leave. I’m hoping you make up your mind either way by September 9.
Rab have you been training a local for your job.
Exactly! Well put!
Your second paragraph — that is not exactly what the CDC indicated on Friday. They did not say vaccinated and non-vaccinated pose the same threat; they said vaccinated persons can be a source of spread. But also said infected vaccinated persons would be infectious for a much shorter period of time. They also said the vaccinated persons they were referring to are only those that presented for a Covid test (are more likely symptomatic). They said the vast majority of vaccinated persons are unlikely to shed much virus if they are infected.
More importantly, a person on work permit should not become a significant burden on our healthcare system (because they were too afraid to get a vaccine.) The CDC said that with the vaccine, there is a 25-fold decrease in risk of death or hospitalization, and an 8-fold risk of disease.
It couldnt be easier to get a vaccine in Cayman. If you are on a work permit as a guest worker, get a vaccine or please leave. If you dont understand the utility of a vaccine now, you never will. (Google, Facebook, Netflix etc told their employees get vaccinated if want to return to office. Broadway shows announced need to prove vaccination status to get in in September). Its not your country and you have zero recourse. And this will be happening.
The problem is, it’s the caymanians not the expats who refuse to get vaccinated
You understand Jamaicans are expats too? Can you even tell the difference?
WIll you all advocate for Private doctors to bring in another vaccine so there will be choices for us??? I am already for the border to be opened but i am also ready to hear folks have a choice
Go home then your country must be amazing…Cayman is the best!
Why is the word force being used?…The Government plainly states you have a choice…Work permit holders must be vaccinated to live and work in Cayman. If you don’t want to be vaccinated there are many other countries that you can go to or even go back to your own home…CHOICE not FORCE..
Go get your vaccination and do your part to protect yourself, your colleagues, family members and yes all of the people of these islands.
Exactly! It is a CHOICE for a work permit holder to be in Cayman. Choose the vaccine or choose to work elsewhere.
And let’s define that choice. Sell your house, uproot your kids from school, walk away from your friendships and relationships you’ve developed over the years or get an experimental vaccine even if you are not in a high risk group and even if in light of new information you are presenting no greater risk to others who are not vaccinated much less vaccinated. It’s not a moral thing to impose and now it also appears to be illogical.
I had to be MMR vaccinated to attend my university 20 years ago. I wasn’t forced to take it; I could have attended uni in another location. People need to stop acting like this is the first time vaccinations have been required in certain situations. If you don’t like the rules you can move to another location. It is as simple as that.
Those are real and tested vaccinations. You were also given the choice BEFORE you decided where to go.