Number of work permit holders exceeds 36,000
(CNS): There are currently 36,049 work permit holders in the Cayman Islands, another new record that is nevertheless increasing every day by around 12 new arrivals. The latest statistics released by Workforce Opportunities and Residency Cayman (WORC) on Friday show that the number of expatriate workers has increased by almost 1,900 since February.
Though expatriate workers hail from 135 different countries, more than 27,500 come from just six countries: Jamaica (15,241 people or 42% of the total), the Philippines (5,803 or 16.1%), the UK (2,082), India (2,014), Honduras (1,265) and Canada (1,254). The document lists one person as coming from the Cayman Islands.
The numbers reflect what many believe is unsustainable, given the shortages of suitable housing, school places, increasing traffic congestion and the impact on Cayman’s natural resources. It also indicates yet again that the National Census, which was published less than eight months ago, is already significantly out of date.
These most recent WORC numbers were released in the first instance to HSM Chambers, local attorneys who specialise in immigration work, who have been doing their best to keep this unsustainable situation in the public eye.
HSM now estimates that there are at least 40,000 foreign nationals living in Cayman with no permanent residency rights, including expatriate workers and their dependents, people here through the Global Citizen Programme, those waiting on residency applications — which the firm estimates is more than 1,000 — people working at Cayman Enterprise City, as well as people in jail.
This number is at odds with the official Economics and Statistics office figures and suggests the population is getting closer by the day to 100,000 — a number that is deeply concerning to some and a realistic target for others, especially those in the business community.
In a very long circular to clients sent on Monday, Nick Joseph, a partner at HSM, described an inadequate immigration system that has not only failed to protect Caymanians but has led to massive delays in residency applications. The danger now is that the broken system could see many more people transition from work permit holders to permanent residents and then become Caymanians in the coming years because of the delays, regardless of their economic circumstances, he warned.
Residency applications are now taking anywhere from just over one year to almost two, which Joseph has argued is unlawful. While there are many causes for these delays, the situation was exacerbated by the decision to allow all work permit holders to stay in the Cayman Islands long enough to make a residency application.
“Doing away with a Key Employee filter at seven years was always going to greatly increase the number of potential applicants for PR,” Joseph said in his open email. “Subsequent changes to the Points System greatly increased the likelihood that applicants would gain enough points to be assured of a grant of PR. Significant increases in the numbers being granted PR inevitably leads to significant increases in the numbers qualified to apply for status.”
Permanent residency was supposed to be the step that would prevent too many people from going on to become Caymanian in any given year, thereby undermining the cultural heritage of these islands. “It has failed to fulfil that role,” Joseph said.
A significant number of people have been getting through the PR step, and many more may now qualify with the help of the courts because of the delays and legal problems with the point system, and the number of people with PR is impacting the number of status grants.
HSM alone has over 630 people with pending status applications as a result of residency or marriage, some of whom are still waiting for an answer 19 months after applying.
The firm estimates that around 35 applications are filed every month, and at least another 1,000 people will be granted status between now and the next general election, which will make them eligible to register to vote. Joseph described this group of pending new Caymanians as a “ghost constituency”, which should be taken into consideration during the current boundary review.
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Category: Jobs, Local News
Can we do a class action for the unheard PR applications over a year? Someone create a Facebook or social media page. I would happily help fund that. Not just for us dealing with it now, but for everyone else behind us. We followed the laws. Let’s move this along shall we. Wether you like it or not, we are part of the economy and have acted lawfully to gain the right of PR.
We all realise this mess is a result of past government poor decisions. Fact is PACT is in the drivers seat now and needs to make the right decision. Moratorium on work permits is the way to go. Bringing 12 new permit holders per day means we importing people faster than we can build housing! Go figure what that does for housing prices, cost of living, congestion, quality of life etc. The unsustainable madness must cease and PACT needs to have to policies and courage to do it. otherwise consider this a one term government.
Moratorium on Jamaicans is what is needed, badly needed, but that’s not going to happen with Seymour, Saunders and Kenny hungry for power and Independence.
Caymaicans. Embrace the heritage, not the hate.
@CG – well said and spot on. This growth,is unsustainable and needs to be dramatically slowed NOW!
I wonder if anyone take a look at Florida lately. DeSantis passed a law recently criminalizing the help or hiring of non-documented immigrants. as a result, homes, factories, farms and the construction industry has literally grounded to a halt. Floridians who were complaining about immigrants or expats taking their jobs, are now screaming their heads off at governor DeSantis for his state crippling policy. these are the same people who were screaming about losing jobs to immigrants. Why don’t they just take up these thousands of available jobs? answer…these jobs are beneath them. and some, they’re not qualified to do. moral of the story is….You can’t have your cake and eat it. if 36 or 40000 Caymanians were qualified for the jobs taken up by expats..those expats wouldn’t be here. expats work their asses off under extreme pressure and conditions. Some Caymanians exhibit entitlement all the time with a shitty work ethic to back it up. but still they complain. smh No country on this planet can survive without expats doing the hard and dirty…that locals refuse to do. so my advice is “Step the hell up…or Shut the hell up”. Also give the Jamaicans a break. They were the first people to settle on this rock.
Many expats working are crutches for the Caymanians. Paid the same, though.
The first on the Rock were English deserters from Cromwells army in Jamaica.
They brought some slaves, (Africans,)..there were no “Jamaicans” , they were Arawak Indians .
Hence, the white Caymanians. Then there came generations of inbreeding.
9.45…In West Bay yes..
no. There used to be inter family babies born in West Bay. no more now.
I live in Florida and haven’t heard of anyone screaming. Seems pretty much business as usual here. Not sure where you got that information.
But sadly we just have too many – and with no jobs they are doing loads of illegal activity..
You shut the hell up!!!
We could never show up in Jamaica and get jobs etc!
Everybody ignoring the Slave wages that attract trash workers and kill the standards of Living.
Employers set this bad trend by greed!!
Hang your heads so called politicians. Only looking permit money and making your own people suffer. Brilliant job yaall
As a Caymanian, it doesn’t really matter to me. These people make Cayman diverse and fun. Shout out to the permit holders! Brrrrap!
Back in the 80s a de-Jamaicanisation policy was flirted with. Quite a few Irish barmaids were imported. But once they were married off and a cheaper variety was found to be available from Honduras, the plan was quietly jettisoned.
But the Jamaican takeover of Cayman is almost complete, with whole sections of the government already dominated by Jamaicans.
The best generational Caymanians can hope for is to be the largest minority in the land. Temporarily.
And all those British types demanding the right to vote, be careful what you ask for. Because the Jamaicans will get the same rights and their bloc will be fully in control.
I wonder why the anti-jamaican sentiments. many seen to forget that the first Humans on this island were Jamaicans. also Pinos???? thats racist!!! hmmm the hate never stops. kmt
Ask yourself why the majority of Jamaicans do not live in Jamaica to find the answer.
That is wrong 5.03…
This is fantastic news. We can reduce the amount of work permits for Jamaicans and Pinos.
The Cayman government seems hellbent on reducing the permit revenue which will reduce the population and duties collected through general consumption. This will require a the Civil Service to reduce headcount. By reducing permits the private sector can employ these out of work Caymanians.
Very interesting tactic by Pantone government.
A better solution would be to get rid of all the Camacians on the island. That would get rid of those who live off of society and Cayman Islands would soon be one of the richest places on earth run by smarter people.
9.09 You mean Cayjamians..? Those seeded and abandoned by Jamaicans now calling themselves Caymanian, going for British passports..?
Saunders Seymour, Bryan and Mac worshippers.
While we need imported labour it is not a good idea to let one single nationality outnumber Caymanians. We have far to many Jamaican’s who also import their culture of ‘me me me’, and rudeness. Independence and corruption screwed up their country and they will ruin ours. Just the other day I honked at a Jamaican who walked into the path of my moving car while on her phone and was immediately rudely cussed out. How do I know she was Jamaican? Jamaican’s use explicit and unique cuss words.
Sounds like quite a few Caymanians, I know.
Replace the Jamaicans with more Filipinos. They are peace loving and respectful.
Camacians already outnumber Caymanians.
Expanding the gene pool is actually good, bobo.
@ 8.17
I totally agree with you!
As a Caymanian I love and welcome the diversity, expertise that Expats bring to the our Islands.
But this is a “problem of proportions”. Yes, no single nationality should be encourage to become so proportionately numerous in relation to all others.
Pfff, that’s only half of the attendance at Taylor Swifts Pittsburgh concert 🤷🏻♀️
Can you imagine the price of a Romaine lettuce if Beyonce came to play in the Cayman Islands? Need a home loan!
or if stacked on top of each other (av person 8” front to back), the same depth as the Cayman Trench !! – embracing that kinship maybe a perfect number to stop
All you naysayers need to ‘shake it off’ – the situation’s out of control, nothing will be done, but ‘back then we didn’t know, we were built to fall apart’. 😔
Way past time for Caymanians to step up and take their place as the work force on the island but lack of respect for education and work ethic has left them so far behind that they now can’t keep up. The culture of intitlements and corruption has left too many people unable to do their part in contributing to society and self responsibility. Now they all cry that there are too many smart people on the island and they need to get rid of them so they can become the smart ones again. If you don’t see the problem with that then you are who I am talking about. Like everyone else you are going to get what you deserve and nothing more. If you truley want more then get a better education, skill, work ethic, stop the bloody complaing, etc and get to work on being self responsible like all those around you that are living their best lives. Or continue to complain as the world around you moves forward and leaves you behind.
intitlements as opposed to outtitlements
Fascinating report gents! I am behooved based on this empirical data that over 1,200 Canadians is indeed one too many Canucks!
How many are hired in the financial sector such as at the Royal Bank of Cayman (RBC) and Cayman Islands Bank of Commerce (CIBC) should indeed be reviewed!
The honorable Mack Daddy McKeeva should behoove himself on a campaign to promote more Caribbean births of Jamaican and Caymanian heritage to ensure a vibrant culture!
You Behooved again..?
If the Canadians leave they will take their retail banks with them. Canadians provide Cayman with a vibrant culture as much as Jamaica does. How many Canadian Bar Tenders serve you?
11.12am If you think Jamsicans provide us with a vibrant culture you’re so wrong. They provide noise, criminality & general lawlessness. if you love them so much take them home with you.
But Dwayne Seymour loves them and their noisy music in Little Kingston aka Bodden Town.
Would be a national disaster if we lost all of the Canadian bar tenders on island. 😆 😂 😝
Caymanians will never undertake such low paid work.
We are above that type of work as we are entitled.
Too many.
Don’t worry we won’t takeover the island!
Been here 40yrs and don’t see much of what made cayman such a great place.
Younger generation is loss and lack the skills to keep up with todays pace!
No one is held accountable here and the energy on the island isn’t good.
Love cayman as well the amazing people and I do hope for the best for Cayman.
O ffs stop behooving.
antibehoovist.
What do we want as Caymanians?
A quiet place to live which will be under water in 50 years? Or opportunities?
Take what you can get from the expats and plan for your kids to move away. This place won’t exist for the next generation.
Stop bitching and start planning.
That is wrong 5.03…
get rid of rollover and there won’t be so many marriages of conveniences half of who works here doesn’t want to live here permanently and be a burden to government in old age this census is wrong because people are leaving in droves because they can’t afford to live here
Something not right with this where are the Americans, Africans, Cubans and Dr’s?
So about 50% of the population. It’s always been like that. The cayman education system is poor, and the cayman economy and government income is all from an offshore finance industry that requires expat professionals with the relevant qualifications. Won’t change until the education system improves from age 5 up. And remember cayman spend more state money per pupil than any western country,
The financial sector employs so many people that even if every Caymanian kid left school with fantastic grades there wouldn’t be a fraction of the numbers needed. And at the other end of the spectrum, Caymanians do not want the low paid, menial jobs that an island with our aspirational lifestyle and a large tourism industry requires. Caymanian unemployment is actually very low by international standards — people need to be clear what they vexxed about. Its not foreigners taking our jobs – it a) not being able to qualify for the nice jobs and b) feeling there are too many expatriates on the island, with the consequent pressure on our infrastructure and society. The solution to the former is better education, and to the latter setting a strict population limit and enforcing that by rationing work permits, whilst accepting that will inevitably lead to restricting the economy.
In other words, there are 36,000 jobs that Caymanians are either unable to do, or unwilling to do.
Shame schools are spitting out a lot of useless students who would rather pretend they are influencers or thugs
stop hiring Jamaican teachers
There are simply not enough Caymanians to fill those jobs. We just don’t have the numbers. Even the inaccurate census shows that!
It’s interesting that nearly 6,000 of these are temporary work permits.
One easy way to slow down growth a little bit would be to change the way temp permits are dealt with.
If these are TRULY temporary jobs, TWPs should be just that, temporary. There should be no pathway to extending or renewing these. If you come here on a temp permit you should have to leave for 3 or 6 months before you can apply for a
full grant. Otherwise these are just used as a shortcut to getting people here without the usual scrutiny, and as everyone knows, it’s a lot easy to stay once you’re actually here. If an employer really needs a WP holder they need to advertise and apply for a grant.
Another quick fix would be to simply tweak the points system to make it harder to get PR. It’s beyond me as to why successive governments have failed to do this. There is no good reason to jerk around legitimate applicants for PR and status. I don’t know what they think they are accomplishing by putting people’s lives on hold by delaying hearing their applications. As has been proven in the past, all you’re doing is giving people who may have otherwise been rejected grounds for approval because of the delays.
Instead why not just make PR harder to obtain?
I get that an overhaul of the PR system is complicated, but while you’re working on that, change the system presently in place. Pass new regulations. It’s not rocket science.
How are you gonna reach 100k+ by dicking around with permits?
100% correct. This is standard practice as the best way to initially get people here. it also approves far quicker than the 1 year permit. Within a week typically.
Which is one the the reasons its used so heavily. If they processed full permits as quickly there wouldnt be the incentive to game the system as much. As an employer you would rather avoid the costs of paying a TWP and then a Full, but f you have to wait 6 months to get a Full dealt with what do you expect is going to happen.
Don’t you remember all the bitching and whining when they first set out the proposed points system? People complaining that it was too heavily weighted towards the rich and professional classes (on the basis they would not be a financial burden) and didn’t make adequate allowance for nannies, home helps, people who committed to social causes and those with “family ties” with Caymanians = children outside marriage. Now we have a system where both a far greater number of people can potentially qualify because we have lowered the financial requirements, but at the same time have pushed the property prices through the roof. Now you want them to overhaul the points. Good luck with persuading them to have both an absolute financial means requirement, an absolute limit on the numbers of status granted, and a limit on the proportion of a specific nationality.
Hey ESO.. how them unemployment numbers looking?
Don’t rely on them. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. They literally claim there are fewer foreigners in the “workforce” than there are work permits in effect. That is even without counting expatriate Permanent Residents. The consequences of reliance their data is truly frightening – as you can tell from the dump, the schools, and the roads.
Irrelevant. $6.00 an hour in a society that costs $10.00 an hour to live in, is far from being something to celebrate.
Yup. But it means more permits (and fees) from those in poorer countries where $6 buys them half a house.
If the Cayman Islands wants to remain relevant in the financial services industry, then work permits are a must. Eliminate rollover if you must, and remove PR for those who wish to work and do not want to retire here.
This may even lead to Caymanians learning what it takes to make it in the business world from the work permit holders.
The medical tourism sector also will not grow without work permit holders. Specialized medicine requires specialized physicians, nurses and technicians.
We live in a global economy, and work permits are necessary for success.
It ain’t about financial services. It’s about the largest expat group. This country has clashed with its closest neighbor for a long time. But everywhere I’ve ever been the locals always complain about the foreign labor. Nothing new.
And they’re quite trashy to be honest.
Half of your words are defined in unnatural and strained way.
Defined?
5:22 went to JGHS – don’t mind them. They’re part of the problem.
The quality of life in Grand Cayman for all inhabitants is getting worse and worse.
They’ve allowed too many people onto the island without putting the necessary infrastructure in place. Stupid decisions are always close by with most CIG’s but at this rate, they’re heading for real disaster and I can’t help but feel with all the crime, cost of living etc. a tipping point with arrive soon.
Read what Nick Joseph says.
CIG too arrogant or ignorant to listen to how their own law will turn around and bite them.
Anybody see the movie “Hunt for Red October”? .. it’s called a Crazy Ivan…!
great news…now if only we could reduce the numbers in the civil service….
Gteat idea. Where will they find employemnt as thousands are there because they can’t cut it oitside of the civil service?
and without them cayman could not survive.
this is true.
Unfortunately the education system here is failing our locals and reducing the numbers eligible to succeed in our workforce.
Wouldn’t it be nice if one of the extremely wealthy local families that are silently pulling the strings actually gave something back to the community?
Like how about some sort of secondary school where local kids can learn about finance, hospitality or construction. You know, the prevalent industries on island? Nah, they’d rather just keep hoarding the money.
And pray tell why isnt government providing that, given the size of the surplus? Because they would rather spend the money on essentials like private jet terminals, sponsoring Portsmouth FC ánd luxury handbag designers.
stop hiring Jamaican teachers
Caymanians oversee the education ministry and the curriculum and the standards.
You’re blaming the wrong people.
ROTFLMAO
what is the story here?
36,000 jobs that caymanians cannot do…as confirmed by cig.
whether or not this number is unsustainable is another question entirely.
They blamed the UDP governmen/ The honourable McKeeva Bush for the 2003 status grant I guess the members of PACT headed by the honourable Wayne Panton will go down in history for this.
Watch this space I wonder if the caymanians will vote with this in mind
Caymanians should absolutely vote with this in mind, or lose Cayman completely.
4.49pm Native Caymanians mostly will but unfortunately the 2003 Status grants allowed them to vote. Since they now outnumber us guess who they’ll vote for.
Nice, every Cayman resident is working, good for you.
Does this take into account the number of people leaving? I doubt it. I know 4 PR’s and 4 recent status grants all leaving in large part due to the education situation.
8 vs 1900 – your delusional and your comment is a part of the problem. We have too too many people landing here and never wanting to leave.
That’s just from a sample of the people I know dummy. A simple extrapolation would suggest across the population there are more. Also, case in point, it’s “you’re”,
🙂
A growing economy post Covid needs qualified and experienced staffers. This is how economics works in the first world, except most countries have programs in place to develop a workforce.
Stop blamimg expats. Blame your education system and its policies and mend that troublesome culture issue of poor work ethic.
Let’s just admit it, the public education system here is crap.
People try and save enough money up to send their kids to expensive private schools.
I was so fortunate my parents sent me to private school. Best decision my parents ever made.
Also too many people from here that also won’t leave.
Did any of them mislead on their PR, naturalization or status applications? You know, the bit about Cayman is my forever home?
You can shout water is not wet as much as you want. Wont change what happens to you every time you jump in the ocean.
“Though expatriate workers hail from 135 different countries, more than 27,500 come from just six countries: Jamaica (15,241 people or 42% of the total), the Philippines (5,803 or 16.1%)” = 58.1%. That is HUGE, and certainly explains the poor driving standards of recent years.
Agree with you wholeheartedly…..a run away train with no regard for the culture of these countries
Agree 100%, those Canadians have no idea how to drive.
…or spot irony!
5:07, But they are excellent drivers in ❄️ ❄️ snow.
Best in world.
They can drive when it rains too, unlike 80% of other drivers on the road in Cayman.
Certainly it is time to start rejecting permits for Jcans and Pints people. Far to many on island. Other nationalities are time in comparison. Certainly the huge numbers of cheap labour is driving down wages in Cayman. Even seeing it in white collar now as well. They will work for a penny compared to everyone else. Negatively effects Caymanians.
If 42% of work permit holders are Jamaican, I wonder what the real percentage of Jamaicans living here really is, when you factor in those with status and PR already.
Could it be that over 50% of the population is already made up of Jamaicans?
“On 22 June 1863, the Cayman Islands became officially declared and administered as a dependency of the Crown Colony of Jamaica.[20] The islands continued to be governed as part of the Colony of Jamaica until 1962 when they became a separate Crown colony while Jamaica became an independent Commonwealth realm.”
10.24pm Of course. A crying shame that it’s been allowed.
10.24pm You forgot the illegals who land nightly.
15241 plus 30000 that already have Status. All contributing to the downfall of Cayman
Can WORC explain how there could be a Caymanian on a work permit?
Someone who was born here but for whatever reason isn’t eligible for status.
Then they wouldn’t be Caymanian, would they?
5.52pm Then they’re not Caymanian
Only by reference to the fact that they actually have no clue who is here or what they are doing.
Send them home! Jobs for Caymanians only
Business isn’t a charity. If you’re not qualified or a quality candidate, you won’t be hired.
Qualified candidate you mean embellished RESUME’s and fake degrees and false or fake police records that is exactly who they are hiring only criteria is that you must not be Caymanian!
Yeah, because profit orientated businesses are so anti Caymanian that they will happily pay for work permits and hire under qualified people just to deny a Caymanian the job.
“Qualified” as in will work for cheap.
There aren’t 36,000 spare Caymanians available.
Every country progresses with immigration. Cayman has the unique ability to control who is coming into the country. Take only the educated and skillful. Leave the rest behind.
36000 people – not all educated or skillful, and certainly not all jobs requiring educated or skillful people. How many unemployed Caymanians? So how do you fill all those jobs if you only admit the educated and skillful?
5.14pm There aren’t 36000 on permit working either. You think all of them actually have legitimate jobs?
Are you suggesting that we just place unqualified people into the job openings that would be created by your suggestion?
Curious about your thoughts on the path required to reach eligibility for these jobs and how quickly you think that happens.
Thats how CIG works!
The jig is up its time to stop this work permit scam foreigners must be curtailed NOW! Pact Cayman children must get jobs!
Almost 50% are Jamaicans.
They will breed with brainless Cayman teenagers , making them the most powerful voting block.
Mac, Seymour Saunders and Kenny will use them to first turn us into a Jamaica, then seek Independence .
That is the true significance of these numbers.
There was a UK politician called Enoch Powell who warned about the consequences of mass immigration… he was called a racist, and Britain is now paying the price.
Our own well respected immigration lawyer , is also issuing warnings , but he’s ignored because he’s educated.
Business isn’t a charity. Birthright doesn’t guarantee you anything if you don’t have the requisite education, certifications and experience that first world industry expects from the staff.
How about work ethic?
They already have jobs! Have you not read the unemployment figures?
This is national disgrace and our children cannot find a friggin job This government removal has now become essential for the survival of Cayman.and it’s peoples
If your children aren’t qualified for the positions, then they simply aren’t. This entitlement syndrome is a detriment to Caymanians.
Your children are likely not qualified for the jobs on offer
The meme Caymanians soon be extinct never sit better than now.
The best thing about the lockdown was the lack of traffic and crime and the number of people on the island.
10K Caymanians with 50K plus foreigners.
Too many Jamaicans, killing this island…. Tired of the yardie mentality
I agree with this.
Love it, let the economy boom!
…and when the smoke clears from the explosion? What then? You just going to leave Caymanians in the rubble and leave saying “that was fun”.
Classic entitlement mindset.
The Jamaicans, Filipinos and Hondurans do the dirty work they feel is beneath them, but make great scapegoats for bad driving and crime.
The Brits, Scots, Irish, Canadians, South Africans, and Americans do the white collar and techincal work that they are qualified for, that Caymanians think they are entitled to by birthright so these expats are blamed for taking Caymanian jobs.
The same exact crew that were still earning money during covid lockdowns, coming out with the same exclamation. “I had to stay in my house wasn’t that crazy!”
Be sure this will gin up the hate against expats, but before the smooth brains pile on, they would be wise to know that economic progress relies on education, certifications, experience and solid work ethic.
The pool of Caymainians qualified to fill these jobs is quite small and never seems to grow.
2:08 pm
Maybe Caymanians should do what the expatriates do, produce fake certificates
You mean like the ones from the Truman Bodden Law School and UCCI?
Degree in religious studies!
Or a “masters” from California coastal university.
Or get educated.
The Cayman Marl Road smooth brains are already predictably parroting her nationalistic jingoism.
my generational Caymanian BF tells me she is not a real Caymanian either?
She from Yaad same way.
I agree that this is all good from an economic perspective.
It’s good for government revenue and it creates jobs for Caymanians rather than takes them away
But there is a limit to what our present infrastructure can support.
Especially where the government is unwilling and/or unable to tackle important issues like mass transit, building roads and sanitation.
If they don’t slow down the number of people arriving here it’s going to be very crowded here in the next couple years. Say goodbye to rush hour traffic and hello to bumper-to-bumper from 6am to 9pm 7 days a week.
Jesus, we need to reduce the amount of Jamaicans coming into the place. Need more of our own kind, Brits.
It should be easier for Brit’s to get permits. Not super easy, but easier.
But it isn’t, Immigration try to keep Brit numbers down. They have these silly stats which is why almost 60% of WPs go to Jamaicans and Filipino.
They bring a smug condescending godless attitude with them. No thanks.
Brits are just as bad imo
Pure unadulterated BS a political scam