Coronavirus and our financial health
(CNS): The coronavirus outbreak has thrown the Cayman Islands, like the rest of the world, into two emergencies: health and the economy. The ramifications for the health of the public and the health services are discussed on the many articles on the issue. On this thread, we invite readers to explain how the current health emergency has already affected your pocketbook or your business, how you think you will be affected financially in the short- and long-term.
Are you worried about losing your job or your business, not being able to pay your mortgage, taking time off work to look after children out of school, or not having sufficient health insurance coverage?
What is Cayman’s short- and long-term economic outlook? What can be done to mitigate the economic consequences of this public health crisis?
There is a lot of fear in the community right now over and above the immediate concerns over contracting COVID-19. Here is an opportunity to discuss the problems people are facing, how individuals can help themselves, what the community can do, and how our district MLAs, business and community leaders, and the government can help.
Category: CNS Discussion, Viewpoint
Coronovirus is only a risk to the elderly and those with health conditions. Here is proof from Italy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Italy
Out of more than 14,000 people, not one person under 29 has died.
If you look at the lethality for age groups 40-49 and lower, the lethality is 0.1, yes 0.1.
The solution is to protect the elderly, and let everyone else get on with their lives. In addition, a great number of people older than 50 already have resources to self-isolate themselves. The elderly are more concerned about the economy than the virus.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/in-florida-retirement-hub-more-worry-about-stock-market-collapse-than-getting-sick-from-coronavirus/ar-BB11fBhO
By the way, kudos to CNS for allowing free discussion on the topic.
You’re trying to stop the herd, who has already panicked.
Could Government finally give two fingers to these stupid Council of Minister folks and let supermarkets open on Sundays to spread the shopping availability for ( especially) elderly people? Opening them at 6 -7 for old folks is not exactly user friendly.
One thing is for sure, the property sector (sales, rentals, construction/development) is going to be put through the wringer very, very hard.
Prices will collapse.
Rentals will flood the market whilst rents fall through the floor, all chasing much reduced tenant pool..
Anyone who has not yet commenced construction will withdraw as the absolute mother of all recessions takes hold, meaning in a few months construction projects will dry up and construction companies will have empty books of business with cost per square foot on anything that does get built dropping to 30% or less of the current level.
The party is over. Well. And. Truly. Over.
This is going to last much longer than many landlords, developers or builders can stay solvent. And that includes the big boys.
DO you think Watermark will take a lowball offer? $100k for penthouse suite ? 🙂
Hopefully CIREBA will stop their assault on prices and buyers and reduce commission rates to a realistic 3%.
matching long-term mortgage obligations with short-term vacation rental income is not a million miles from the 2008 financial crisis.
No sympathy from me.
I’d wager if you asked our seniors and the seriously ill for their opinion you’d find out that they don’t want the entire economy to collapse on their account. They’d probably happily settle for self quarantine and care from social services, friends and family over the absurd, unprecedented self inflicted wrecking ball we are going to see for the next 6 months at least. It seems like there could have been a more targeted approach that looks after seniors and critically ill that doesn’t cause a massive financial crisis for everyone. On the other hand with the U.S. on total lock down the hit was coming regardless. Buckle up, the good ‘ol days simulator is about to kick in.
There are intubated kids with Covid-19. Everyone can get it and it’s not just a flu.
But that requires some grey matter which appears to be absent in many skulls. Just knee jerk reactions. Act first, think later.
The self inflicted wrecking ball will be the mentality that you are demonstrating! I think you are dislocated from reality – the steps that we are taking now will likely not be enough and will become more drastic.. The economic pain is nothing compared to the anguish of losing family and friends. Grow an empathetic brain!
Experts, doctors and health care professionals are struggling with the exact formula and the right approach for this extremely complicated mess we find ourselves in. Reasonable people with expertise in these areas are having civil debates about it. It’s good to know we have people right here in the comments sections that know with 100% certainty that the chosen path is the best path. Thousands will lose their jobs, possibly their homes. The financial ruin will be untold and it will be a crushing hardship for many families. No reasonable person is suggesting that people with existing serious health issues that would be affected or our seniors should be left unprotected or exposed. They should be protected. Hell, it would have been cheaper to sequester them at the Ritz Carlton and the Kimpton in their own private suite with a team of nurses without destroying the economy than deal with what’s coming to us. Suppose this happens again in a year with a new virus, do you think we can do this endlessly? Where’s your empathy?
That Kind of evolution not endemic to Cayman.
This is a great explanation of how these viruses spread:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/health/coronavirus-how-epidemics-spread-and-end/
Does anyone know anyone with the virus?
No and I live in the U.S. and have friends and relatives in many different states, Canada, the Caribbean , London, and Australia. Hopefully, we all continue to stay healthy!
Go ask the Health City widow if global concern is overblown. She may have some choice thoughts for dopes like you.
It seems like everyone caught a madness virus. A hostility virus. A hatred virus. Xenophobia virus. Just read comments.
Cayman deserves to be left on its own with its own beloved Dump and no one to sell them groceries, fix cars, make a cup of coffee or serve at restaurants, cut hair, service a/c, teach their kids, etc. etc. That would teach them a lesson or two.
That’s exactly why I laugh at some healthy people today who can’t seem to do anything for themselves. If they were any worse they’d need their own behinds wiping for them. These people will be the first to go or loose it before they do. Some people just don’t have the mental fortitude to deal with a major crisis let alone an existential one.
My friend has it, now I don’t know him anymore.
The US has now dropped the number to no more than 10 people can gather at one time. We need to also shut down construction sites and other large groups and only allow a few people in the grocery store at a time. If the virus gets a foothold in Cayman we are in serious trouble.
I guess all the “Airbnb Landlords” will soon find out that it’s better to rely long-term local tenants than short-term tourists.
Panic is doing nothing but increasing anxiety in people making a constant flight or fight response in the body that will overwhelm the immune system in case of a real viral exposure, making it more likely people will get ill rather than not.
Frankly people will need essentials like food, gas for the car, doctors appointments that are not elective, and home repairs that arent optional.
Front line workers like doctors and nurses, EMTs, firefighters, police, will still be at work regardless and need the necessary support systems in place to do that.
It is also possible to digest facts and truth without panicking. It’s called being flexible. Sitting at home on one’s own sofa watching Netflix is pretty easy, compared to what our ancestors sacrificed during the world wars. I don’t know why retreating to the comfort of home would cause any anxiety. Give it two weeks, learn guitar, and reassess. Maybe there are fewer local transmissions than we are currently seeing elsewhere, and we can resume our lives free of this global scourge. That would be nice. For now, we stay home, like a little camping trip.
I guess your money grow on trees and you have food reserves that would last that long.
Perhaps they should have saved all those exorbitant taxi fares?
I hear that taxi drivers are complaining and that 50-60% will be out of work because of the cruise ships. Maybe they should have turned up all those times I called, and put a little extra aside.
Nobody should be out of their house, let alone going around in taxis. Good grief.
And you will be delivering free meals.
This is a good silver lining – i hate taxi’s here.
Every night some untold Trillions are banked thru our systems as we facilitate global tax ‘efficiencies’ – be nice if they gave us a little to help us stay afloat to enable them to keep being ‘efficient’. Of course, if they hadn’t been efficient, maybe there would be more ventilators in their countries of birth/physical business operations, but c’est la vie.
The banks here must advise the nation ASAP that they will be instigating a mortgage holiday for 3 months. the banks can currently borrow money for free, and they are still marking up our mortgages by unnecessary %’s. The greatest fear of the people – after the virus itself – right now is their mortgage bill not being met. The government must enforce this, and announce it, and repeat it until everyone can get a bit of comfort that actually, that biggest of all bills is not coming your way for 3 months and then we’ll take another look.
CIMA/CIG – where are you on this? The people will revolt if they’ve got no money and see the banks keep charging away.
This crisis is a true test of what kind of society we are living in and should serve to to inform us that ” the duality “as I describe it should have no place in Caymanian society .It will take this crisis to inform us as I have written in the poem “Natives and Expatriates ” :
“One thing for sure the poet says…
If we don’t get the present right …
We’ll have done ourselves a sorry slight
It makes no difference where were from…
All of us should be like one…
Chewed up …spat out … against the wall
Our selfish ways …the cause of fall.
It makes no difference ‘pain or plane ‘
The mirror says we’re all the same …
For if we do not get this right
Cayman will be a sorry sight
For whom ?or What …I cannot tell
’cause everything will go to hell .
From :Reflections From A Broken Mirror
One of the ” Lessons at the Well ” taught to me by my dear departed mother comes from the Gospel, of St. Luke Chapter 12 verse 48.
” To him whom much is given ; from him will much be expected”.
This is the time for Good Samaritans and for us to help the less fortunate.
Terrible poem, Roy, but really fine sentiments. Kudos to you.
send employees back home if theirs no work for them unless the employer is paying! if not they have to go until this easies unless theirs going to be stealing and a lot of other thing happening around here.
Good God, did you ever go to school? So you think people who were born outside of Cayman are criminals? They all have to prove a clean police record in order to be here. I’d be far more worried about the people who were born here. Many Caymanians are criminals even in good times.
WTF!
Easier said than done when you look at the actions of various countries and airlines.
Cayman Airways can take citizens of various countries home. No country can deny entry of its own citizens. These flights should be operated for free in the circumstances.
Not if the airport is closed.
The airport is not closed. Scheduled flights are being ended. Emergency and freight service continues. Nothing to stop evacuation flights by a government owned airline.
Are you looking fo a free flight home..why not ask your country’s airline to come get you?
Fine. But if they don’t it is better we get people home than having to feed and medicate them here indefinitely.
‘No country can deny entry of its own citizens.’ Even if that is the case they can refuse landing rights and if necessary, after 9/11, use lethal force to stop unauthorised aircraft entering their airspace. Do you really think CAL would risk that?
That first “theirs” should read “there’s”
The second “theirs” should read “there’s”
There is
Illiterate!
Better to ignore the comment than to respond to the comment; shows a little class.
11.59am How, do you expect them to swim?.
At some point, we are all going to be called upon, as a matter of civic duty, to underwrite Cayman Islands 40-50 year “Victory Bonds”. Every country on the planet is going to have to do this, or plunge into social disorder.
haha no thanks. hard to recover that cash when the island is underwater.
Most people framed theirs and hung them on the wall. Only jerks tried to cash their Victory Bonds. It’s a civic IOU that never needs to be called.
This is the case when the-cure-is-worse-than-the-disease!
The 50 people ban is a pure unsubstantiated nonsense. Coronavirus restrictions putting livelihoods on the line for many local businesses. It should ONLY go with financial assistance to those affected. Unfortunately paying bills, mortgages, rent and buying groceries is NOT optional. Unless you assist people living from paycheck to paycheck, don’t restrict their abilities to earn money.
CIG,MLAs should donate one month salary toward those who will be affected the most. #1 priority is to ensure no one goes hungry.
A ban on all public gatherings is very effective, well substantiated and internationally advisable. We want this thing to stop spreading ASAP and slowly taper into the history books. That’s exactly how you limit the economic impact, not prolong it by months because of the indulgence of counter-productive selfishness alcoholism. Time’s up on that formula.
Sorry, but economic hardship is not worse than death. I do agree that we must make sure everyone on this island can eat, including the expat hostility workers that can’t go home for any reason. These are extraordinary times and those who can help others should.
Hostility workers? Hmmm
Boris Johnson has taken up your approach. No bans on large gatherings, as this will affect businesses struggling with Brexit changes. So schools are still open as well in the UK. The problem with that –
If the virus gets out of hand in the UK like it is in Italy, alot of people are going to die. What is going on with Johnson??? Johnson keeps saying that people should stay calm, yet he has not put London or the big cities in lockdown. Cayman, strangely, is ahead of him.
Just sayin
The UK are playing the long game and trying to manage their infection/death rates (and socioeconomics). They are basically accepting a large number of infections and trying to manage when that ‘peaks’. Their ideal is a ramp up of infections, and response, going into summer and then a dwindling in fall. They’re not necessarily wrong – we won’t know until next year and it will be judged by how overtaxed the NHS is or is not over the next few months – but it is a bitter pill to make people swallow.
11:54 I get the impression that BoJo and his team haven’t got a clue. The guy in charge of health issues, Matt Hancock, is a 41-year-old career politician with a degree in politics, philosophy and economics (PPE). He’s currently telling everyone over 70 they may have to self-isolate (difficult if you’re one of those on a home care package) but the schools are all still open. A friend of mine in the UK says that, except for some shortages in the stores, it’s business as usual where he lives. The worst bit is nobody is getting any proper official emergency planning info. From what his email said it’s a complete cluster**** over there.
Having been watching events over there, the other issue seems to be the amount of false news and junk advice people are being allowed to post online. One post this morning is incorrectly telling people that COVID-19 survives for 3 months to 3 years on hard surfaces and can be killed by anti-bac sprays. Another is recommending shoppers buy kitchen rolls and cut them in half to make toilet paper, which is OK as long as you don’t flush it because it will block the drains.
Italy isn’t the only country experiencing coronavirus – have you checked the South Korea numbers? Their population is 56 million.
Yes, but South Korea now has the problem under control since working on it since January. They moved much faster than the U.S. on taking action. Kudos to the South Korean Government.
Maybe hold your applause. Still almost 9000 cases and around 1000 recovered and 75+ dead, doesn’t sound anywhere near over for them.
The numbers in South Korea have been coming down for the past 2 weeks significantly. The same cannot be said for Italy.
May be you should stop counting?
Because the tories have never really cared about human life just $$$$ (or should I say ££££)
Boris is willing to let people die, as long as he can keep up the illusion of a functioning economy
Though there is little he can do now
An ever increasingly likely no deal brexit at the end of this year along with the international impact of the coronavirus will likely prove to be the 1-2 punch that puts the UK flat on its back for years to come
It will make people in the UK wish for the days of the last recession
and I wouldn’t at all be surprised if Boris Johnson is PM for a far shorter period than he expected
Nonchalant optimism and carefree buffoonery is well and good during an election where the usual platitudes can be spouted but when people start directly burying their loved ones based on idiotic decisions made to prop up markets and the profit margins of businesses it will not be easily forgiven or forgotten
Having an obviously visceral hatred for Boris Johnson and Tories is not going to help anyone but I suppose it allows you to get your jollies.
Why should it be just CIG MLAs – this is a social problem effecting Caymanians and ex-pats. In respect of the latter group, they have been invited in to the Country to do, with the exception working in the financial services industry, relatively low skilled and low paid jobs. It is on the back of these people’s efforts that Cayman prospers. They need our support and it should be readily given.
Why just MLAs. This is Society’s problem and it is responsible for fixing it. Walking through George Town. I can see a lot of closed businesses and I guess the people who work there are not the highest paid on Cayman. If their work dries up, they will need support and it’s not a bad idea for everyone to contribute to helping those worse off. I am too weak willed to do this but if the Government mandated it, I wouldn’t complain.
Should be a 10 people ban if we are serious about dealing with the virus.
One solution is to let everyone just continue life as normal everyone gets the flu now, self isolate all the vulnerable people, let the virus run its course for the next month or so and then life goes on …
CNS: This is exactly what the health authorities are trying to avoid. If everyone gets the virus all at once, the hospitals will be overwhelmed, there will not be enough ventilators for all those who need them and people will die. It’s very important that you understand this so that you don’t go around carelessly spreading it because you have decided this is the best way forward.
Yes to CNS.
Everyone is vulnerable. Death is the wrong yardstick. There are children intubated in Europe and elsewhere clinging to life. This isn’t the flu. Permanent lung damage in recovered of all ages. We need to start catching up with how serious this is. Plenty of info available…
Smh.. incredible
Utter ignorance.
Good comment CNS except that it’s ‘ventilators’. Otherwise, and as you say, it’s fake news and junk advice like 10:11 that’s the real danger now – that will kill more people than the virus.
CNS: You’re right. Sorry. I have changed it so people don’t get confused (like me).
Thumbs up to CNS and not your extremely stupid idea. @ 10:11am it’s not rocket science why this needs to be controlled and not having everyone infected at once. OMG are ppl really this ignorant?!
This 50 person ban is a sham. To impose something like this, you would need to do it across the board. Not allowing 50 people to gather at an outdoor bar but still allowing the same 50 people to be in line at a grocery store is just specious reasoning. I didn’t see the scientific data showing that 49 people together in a room are immune to the virus. It is a known fact that government can not keep you safe from anything. If you feel you need to self quarantine than it should be your right to do so…and if you feel you should want to celebrate a birthday with 51 friends who all know the risk but still wish to do so than that should not be punishable by imprisonment where you will be locked in a building with 50 other people.
It’s delusional to assume you’d draw anywhere near a 51 idiot count for your clueless insensitive gathering. Asymptomatic spreading is the whole clinical and mathematical basis behind social distancing. It’s also a mistake to assume bars, restaurants or even supermarkets will retain normal hours for much longer as this thing moves along. Borders are closing, flights are getting cancelled. Everybody should be staying home unless they absolutely need to go out for some kind of emergency provision and in the coming days you’ll understand (one way or another) why that is. Defiant skeptics like you are exacerbating the problem, and literally killing and permanently injuring people.
150 people at Smith;s Cove yesterday, but no arrests.
the CDC has issued the same guidance and we did it before them. Here it is you want proof: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/large-events/mass-gatherings-ready-for-covid-19.html
Isn’t this type of ban the perfect example of government trying to balance the health risks with the economic impact?
I don’t think it’s about a tipping point that provides or removes immunity to the virus. It’s about being able to preserve economic activity while it is reasonably OK to do so, while slowing the spread of the pandemic so as not to overwhelm the healthcare system by limiting interaction.
The same is true of the balancing act that must be done around essential services, like grocery stores and pharmacies.
If preventing the spread of this disease were the only concern, government would immediately shut all borders, impose a quarantine, and shoot anyone on site who violates the law. But it’s not, and it’s specious to assume that the only consideration in enacting this ban is solely about keeping people safe from the virus.
It doesn’t work like that. If there are 50 people in each supermarket that’s three gatherings. If bars and restaurants and churches and sports clubs and schools are open that’s dozens of gatherings with people moving between them all the time. That’s means a much much greater chance of spread.
It’s a case of minimising gatherings as much as possible.
You can always tell who the greedy money pigs are with no regard for the well being of residents by exploring the comment section here.
Yes, and their names are almost always “Anonymous”
Like yours you mean?
Business Interruption Insurance policies were narrowed and focused after recent series of costly hurricanes. Some of those policies expressly limit claims due to virus or contagion. The business claimants would have to demonstrate physical damage resulting from a covered peril. That means that even responsible businesses owners, that might well intend to retain staff and supplies, may not be able to do so without customer revenue for protracted periods. Short of a massive social payout from a (broke) profligate government, the other way the public/client support can materialize is via online “gift cards”, to keep the lights on and staff employed. We don’t want to add looting and burgling to our social ill lists right now.
Big companies will get billions of support while they have sufficient reserves.
The poor guy that cleans your yard and picks up the garbage, the lady that cleans your toilet for nothing an hour, these are the ones that will suffer financially.
Insurance companies will be baled out and use this virus to increase their profits by raising the premiums again.
In the end it is always the same story. Wealth will increase to to those who have it at the expense of the ones that don’t.
Many insurance policies expressly restrict cover from viruses – it would wipe out the entire industry, and all the re-insurers. Here’s were we see which of our very rich will dip into their pockets to keep the lights on while retaining as much civility as might be possible.
I will bet Dart does. Dart helped Cayman get through the financial crisis and has the ability to help Cayman through this – and he will.
But it won’t stop the haters from hating him anyway.
Dart has the most to lose financially in the Cayman Islands.
Because he invested the most.
I’m paying my cleaner even though I don’t want her to come.
Same
Me too and I’m far from rich, just human…
why would anyone give a thumbs down to that? SMH
Same, my only concern is that my helper won’t stay home as requested and will look for other work even though I am still paying her weekly salary.