Referendum petition goes on the road
Volunteers will be collecting signatures this Saturday for the Cruise Port Referendum campaign
(CNS): Volunteers who are organising the petition for a people-initiated referendum to enable local voters to make the decision about the proposed cruise berthing development are going on the road on Saturday to some of the busiest locations around George Town and Seven Mile Beach in a final push to get as many signatures as possible before the document is sent to the Elections Office for verification. Organisers told CNS that they want to reach out to as many people as possible so government will understand that the community is behind this proposed national vote.
There is no time limit on the collection of the signatures of 25% of registered electors, which is the number required required to trigger a referendum, as per the Cayman Islands Constitution. However, government has now entered into a deal with the cruise lines and will soon be requesting that the remaining three pre-qualified bidders submit their final tenders.
If, despite the clear indication that organisers are on track to collect the 5,280 voters’ signatures needed, government presses on with the process and enters into legally binding deals before the referendum is set, it could cost the public purse a significant amount if the vote comes down against the project.
Therefore, those seeking a national vote on the subject recognise the need to impress upon government that they have the numbers and it would be wise to avoid any binding commitments before this vote is held.
Anyone who wants to sign the referendum can call, text or message 938-5876 any time between 10:00am and 2:00pm on Saturday to catch up with the volunteers, who will be starting their road show at Hurley’s Supermarket in Grand Harbour.
For more information visit the Cayman Port Referendum Facebook page here
Category: development, Local News
We should build this facility in the Central Mangrove right in the center of it along with a larger airport and the UK should build it. The capitol should be in the center of the island. We would have 6-7 quarries to dig out the marl to a depth of 50 feet which is allowed by DOE. So no EIA would be needed
BUILD-DA-DOK BOBO!
Please hurry and sign the petition so we can have our say. The dump is a testament to the ignorance surrounding Cayman Islands government. Let’s not allow them to muck anything else up and lets all vote on the major project as intended by our democratic ideology.
It is utter rubbish for CNS or Mario and his group, or anyone else to push the idea that there is no time limit to gather enough signatures to secure a refetendum. Not true. As soon as the question being put is no longer relevant to the existing situation, the old petition becomes outdated and a new one has to be started.If this idea of unlimited time for signature gathering was truly followed , we could have a group of individuals holding the Government of the Day hostage under the threat of calling a referendum on any and every proposed Government project.Right now Mario and his group are trying to hold this current Government hostage by using the threat of a possible referendum to coax them to stop action on the port.They want Govénment to syand still until Mario/CPR can get enough signatures; however long that takes. Suppose it takes another six months or a year for them to gather signatures, should Government put everthing on hold for them. I don’t think so.And what happens if in that time Goverment has secured a favourable EIA,couldn’t that change some people’s minds; would those people be allowed to remove their signature if they no longer support the petition.In other words if the gathering of signatures is a long drawn out affair, circumstances could change and people’s minds could change and we certainly would not want to be using someone’s signature in a fraudulent manner now would we.I certainly would not want to put my signature on a petition that asks a particular question then have it transferred to a revised petition that I don’t support. So the gathering of signatures does have an expiration date. And you can take that to the bank.
Sorry, your cheque bounced!
The petition is not for or against the port, it is about allowing the people to vote on it. If people have changed their position based on new information, that will be reflected in how they vote.
we voted on it already its called an election or are we now going to have a petition for every item that the government goes to work on. And please stop the begging for the votes as it is obvious that you do not have enough interest to push it through and even if you do the referendum vote you will lose. In the end all you will do is hold up the development of the country.
Why beg for votes when you can buy them, as the Government is trying to do with their media campaign in support of the port, paid for from the public coffers? Or is that a myth?
Food for thought not particular to the port but to development on a whole for the island. Let’s say we can to 100,000 population in the next 5 years. Let’s say the current hospital HSA in need to expand for more beds and for more specialized treatments. Let’s say they have to go up two more floors to accommodate due to land space. So now, we have growth and need space but nowhere to go unless further east as the current property is in direct fly path of The airport. So after millions of dollars spent on the newly renovated airport, will it still accommodate the bigger planes from Europe? The point I am getting to is there long term planning for the port, the airport and George Town on whole.
Can someone in clear concise terms explain to me, in simple terms that everyone can understand, exactly what the petition is going to achieve?
First of all, let me say that I am eternally grateful that our Constitution has a clause for a Referendum, but my view on a referendum is that it should be used in a clear-cut situation where we are asking a straight up Yes/No answer to a specific question. “Are you in favour of Cayman going independent?” would be one such question that should be answered in a referendum, and preferably at the same time that we are voting in a general election if at all possible.
My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, is that once the requisite number of signatures have been obtained to trigger a referendum, the petition will be presented to the government and then a date will be set to hold the referendum and they will decide what question or questions will be asked.
How can you reasonably expect me to get all fired up about a referendum if you can’t tell me what the question is going to be?
Are we asking for:
A. No cruise ship piers ever
B. No expansion of the cargo dock
C. No work at all without comprehensive EIA study published
D. A&C but not B
E. All of the above
F. None of the above
I am more than happy to sign a petition for a referendum if I know exactly what the question will be, but I’m against wasting a whole lot of money gearing up for a referendum where the question(s) wouldn’t make it worth my while to perform my civic duty to go and vote in a referendum that I asked for.
“Can someone in clear concise terms explain to me, in simple terms that everyone can understand, exactly what the petition is going to achieve?” –
The point of the petition is to halt this project in its current form due to it’s perceived unpopularity, projected consequences and due to a general lack of confidence in this government specifically when one looks at the facts:
-the history of large capital projects in the Cayman Islands tell a very predictable story, cost overruns, delays and unforeseen complications
-that a coalition government is claiming an electoral mandate (farcical idea in and of itself),
-the government has been shown to be misrepresenting the facts and ignoring them all together when it suits them,
– and that the government has already determined to side with outside interests over their electorate. —–
“First of all, let me say that I am eternally grateful that our Constitution has a clause for a Referendum, but my view on a referendum is that it should be used in a clear-cut situation where we are asking a straight up Yes/No answer to a specific question. “Are you in favour of Cayman going independent?” would be one such question that should be answered in a referendum, and preferably at the same time that we are voting in a general election if at all possible.”
–
1 Can we for once stop pretending that citizens are simpletons who don’t understand complexities and nuance? e.g. “but my view on a referendum is that it should be used in a clear-cut situation where we are asking a straight up Yes/No answer to a specific question.”
It is entirely possible to have a referendum with nuance and as we can see in the UK the whole up or down Yes/No charade that you are calling for is an idealism at best
( more brexit means brexit) By your standards there would almost never be a real use for a referendum any question can devolve into a myriad of supplementary questions and possibilities. We can hold a referendum as a means of determining a general indication of the people’s will and then narrow down the specifics either with supplementary questions,bodies or if necessary more formal public input
2 This idea that any issue of national importance demanding formal public input can just wait another 3 years for the next general election is farcical
Your smart idea is to bind a currently nonexistent and un-elected future government to the results of an issue based squarely and presently on the shoulders of this PPM led administration.
Do you honestly think that democratic principles are null and void in the 3 years and 10 months between campaigns and elections? I don’t know about you but I didn’t vote in 2017 for one of 19 micro-dictators to rule absolutely with no regard for the public interest for the better part of four years. If the people do decide that they want to hold a vote on an issue the timing is the least of my concerns, this power enshrined in the constitution is not meant to be convenient for the elected government or to their liking it is meant as a last resort for the people to reach an out of touch government —–
“My understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, is that once the requisite number of signatures have been obtained to trigger a referendum, the petition will be presented to the government and then a date will be set to hold the referendum and they will decide what question or questions will be asked.” –
Yes once 25% of the electorate has signed a petition asking for a referendum on an issue the government is bound to action their request and have the referendum on a date of their choosing. The wording is determined by Cabinet but they are bound at least theoretically to honor the initial petition as much as possible without political interference, though in reality I would ask is there truly honour among thieves and scoundrels? —–
“How can you reasonably expect me to get all fired up about a referendum if you can’t tell me what the question is going to be?” –
Little in this world is absolute, least of all when it comes to politics, if only absolute assurances stir you to action, then you must live quite a sedentary life, this petition as it stands represents an idea held by what I would describe as a large group of Caymanians, stating that despite what the government would have us believe the costs of this projects along with the potential risks outweigh the promised benefits and we do not think it should continue in its current form
—–
“Are we asking for:
A. No cruise ship piers ever
B. No expansion of the cargo dock
C. No work at all without comprehensive EIA study published
D. A&C but not B
E. All of the above
F. None of the above” –
We are asking for the government to stop the current plans being proposed, as we feel the public interest is being acted against:
-Obviously if another plan is drawn up and presented to the people that alleviates our concerns while showing actual likely benefits one would assume rational actors would allow that project to go forward or allow at the very least that project to be independent from any conclusion reached on this project ( no one is asking for a law to ban cruise ports they are asking to stop the current project)
– The Cargo dock expansion is being tacked on by the CIG as another reason to push this cruise port project through, but in my mind it is a separate issue entirely, even the costs are quoted desperately by the government ( they refer to the costs as cruise port + cargo port expansion meaning in my mind one does not need the other to exist)
– It is my understanding that by law if any of these projects go through the government is mandated to publish or obtain an EIA, the main issue now that the government has already obtained a partial EIA but has not as of yet updated them for the new plans , they have assured us that the final bidder will be responsible for presenting a new EIA
-The other responses are simply facetious placeholders that do not merit a response, as they are illogical
“I am more than happy to sign a petition for a referendum if I know exactly what the question will be, but I’m against wasting a whole lot of money gearing up for a referendum where the question(s) wouldn’t make it worth my while to perform my civic duty to go and vote in a referendum that I asked for.” –
1 The question will only be formally decided after the petition has reached the amount necessary. So claiming you will only support a petition when the question(s) is/are decided is a basic catch 22, until the petition reaches the necessary number the question(s) is/are purely hypothetical, none of the petitioners can make any assertion otherwise but once the petition reaches the required number and the question(s) is/are decided formally your signature will be of no utility ( slight oversight on your part I am assuming, either that or you had no intention of signing in the first place and you are simply shooting a shot across the bow and expecting to not get a response)
2 The cost of a potential referendum pales in comparison of the cost of getting a decision like this wrong, I’d say money well spent in my opinion, there is a time when fiscal responsibility is admirable, this is not that time
3 Whether or not you feel it is “worth your while” is entirely subjective, I don’t see the point of including that in your initial post but I guess so
—–
*Original text in quotations, responses follow (obviously) *
Diogenes
Thanks for your response. You really shine on being clear and concise, with bonus points for concise.
Now tell me how many of the signatories are fully in agreement with you?
Substantive response met with shockingly shortsighted replies
How I have missed the CNS comments
I respect the issue (and the idea of discourse) enough to take time to write out a point by point response, your
Here in the real world issues tend to require more than one or two sentences, who could have guessed an actual issue has real world depth
If you want easy answers and simple measured responses political issues probably aren’t the right topic for you to be commenting on
Talking points are wonderful, but there tends to be more to the story
Might I suggest turning a page or two
Diogenes
Diogenes what is clear and concise from from your post is that you do not respect the 19 people currently in the LA. That suggests that you are not from here and would probably prefer someone like ypurself to be in control of our LA.
1 – I am from here, I am as Caymanian as they get
(I can show you where my grandmother is buried and her mother and her mother and so on and so on) But feel free to deduce whatever you want to fit your narrative Sherlock
You make an ass of yourself without me even trying
2 – I respect people who get things done, who are honest with the people and who understand their roles as public servants
If you stray from those lines you lose said respect
Plain and simple
3 – You couldn’t pay me to play the games those 19 “representatives” play
I’d sooner tie a block to my ankle and jump into the trench
A nice paycheck and a 4 year vacation isnt worth selling my soul to have the PPMs paymasters still dictate policies whether they have an elected majority or not
Diogenes
Build the dock!
Dump Mac and PPM!
Second that!
My family want to sign but we don’t see you collecting signatures outside the stores where we go each week Fosters, Kirk Supermarket, ALT and Cost u Less.
Why cant you collect signatures outside those stores – that’s the best place to collect?
You know why.
I actually don’t know why. please elaborate
Because those stores have stakeholders which have a vested interest in seeing the referendum fail. As such they have barred the petition providers from setting up there. They have no problem with other groups setting up but when it came to this suddenly they have a problem.
Well they were in and outside Airport Fosters on Saturday.
The members of Cruise Port Referendum (CPR) only sit outside and collect signatures at local businesses or companies who support the People’s Choice for a Referendum. The stores you have listed above either do not support or do not welcome the volunteers of CPR to sit outside of their establishments and collect signatures. If you or anyone else you know IS in support of the People’s Referendum and would welcome them at your business or establishment, then please do contact them at: 938-5876 or email: cprcayman@gmail.com. If you would like to see CPR outside a business and volunteers are currently not there, perhaps you could approach the business and ask them to allow CPR to be present on their property.
9:10 try another excuse to not sign.
Not allowed to collect signatures at those locations without the management’s position
and some of those companies thing the cruise port will mean money for them so they don’t give them permission
Troll.
This is a BS comment. The folks are are organizing signatures have offered to come to peoples homes and have them sign there.
If you wanted to sign there are plenty of places.
I’m betting you have no interest in signing, you’d rather talk shit here
Our Ambassador for the Cayman Islands spreading the message that we care about our environment and the Islands. I would say that some of the negative thoughts expressed here are very much in the minority…
https://www.facebook.com/MissUniverse/videos/386693428540904/
The entire bid submission process has been corrupted by allowing this new consortium to get into the mix without having to comply with the same bid process as the other bidders.
You say “corrupted”. What does this word mean? It is not in the Government’s dictionary.
What new consortium?
What new consortium? Are you sure you’re not mixing up the ‘funding consortium’ with the ‘contractor consortiums’?
Who can say?
I would be very interested to see what the petetion organisers would ideally like as the referrendum question should they be successfull. This may inform me as to sign or not.
They are just going to pray.
It’s pretty simple really. Are you in favour of the dock, yes or no.
Next dumbass question please Mr Troll.
No thanks!
You don’t want to have your say on the port? You entirely trust the government to make the right choices for you and the country in all things? You are very trusting, especially seeing the government seem to be keeping so much truthful information from everyone, and promoting figures that have no substantiation – such as how many new Caymanian jobs will be created, how much more money will pour into the community from extra passengers etc.
The whole issue behind the referendum is to pressure those in charge to release information so that people can understand the details and make an informed choice. You don’t think it’s suspicious that so little information is forthcoming?
I considered this when I voted last election, when most of the information available now was already available. Why do you think your view is the only/right way?
Practically, please explain to me how everyone ‘having their say’ will work. Everyone wants something slightly different. After they release all this additional information you are looking for and you can make an ‘informed decision’ how do you plan to harmonize thousands of the voters on what should be done? We will never get anywhere! That is why a referendum is practically a vote to stop the port.
The mandate idea does not work when almost all candidates support the same thing. Voters decide on other reasons because they have been given no choice on that matter. I would have voted in my district for any candidate who opposed the dock but there wasn’t one to choose. That does not mean whoever gets in has a mandate to support the dock. That does not mean that whichever government forms, it has a mandate to build the dock. The election was not like previous elections which were referenda on major policies or politicians. 2005 was corruption and McKeeva, 2009 was Progressive overspending, 2013 was corruption and McKeeva (and let’s not forget, the worst-smelling project of McKeeva’s 2009-2013 government was the dock, and it and many other things stunk up the place so bad he was charged with criminal offences, and his party imploded, never to recover. If you want to find the last election where voters weighed in on a dock, that was the one). 2017 was a mixed result like many Western democracies have had recently that doesn’t point one way or the other, and was dominated by the novelties of the single-member constituency change and independents. It was about $200 and cab fare. Nothing to do with a dock.
@ 07/12/2018 at 4:48 pm:
You sound as ignorant as the Black Americans that attack other Black Americans for “talking white”.
Caymanians like you make me sick to my stomach.
Worst of all, I bet you don’t even possess the insight to be thoroughly embarrassed – as you ought to be.
#haveyoursay #protectbeachaccess #teamstayover #savethecove #standingforsomethingfallingfornothing #cayman
Remember apartheid?
What about it?
I do understand those who want to sign the petition but are afraid to lose jobs. After all it is Mafia, no exaggeration here, that runs this country under pretense of democracy. It is with Mafia permission corruption in the country is widespread.
But for how long do you want to continue live in fear? What about your children? Your government has no regard for your children’s future. Instead of multiplying efforts to solve THE waste management crisis, they are embraced to exacerbate the problem- the volume of waste going to the Dump would be significantly increased if the construction starts. There is no construction waste management in the country. Everything is taken to the ever growing Dump. I personally believe that the situation is dire and one, especially with children, should start thinking about moving someplace else. UNLESS YOU, THE PEOPLE, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
I really regret signing up as it appears that the organizers will never reach the desired thresholds. They keep saying for the last 4 months that they are close or have already met the target but there is no corroboration of this and the roadshow still continues. Hugely disappointed.
I’m overseas in school and I want to sign. I would also like to vote when it comes time. Does Cayman offer absentee ballots?
You can sign the petition while overseas by emailing the petition organizers using this email address:
cprcayman@gmail.com
While Cayman does offer absentee Ballots for general elections I am unaware about the process for referendums as they are so infrequent
You could probably contact the elections office to see if there is a procedure already in place:
info@elections.ky or 345-949-8047 during normal business hours
The elected government is likely going to do everything in their power to try to keep the referendum turnout as low as possible to de-legitimize the process
-Things like reducing polling places so there are long lines and people leave instead of voting,
-not declaring the referendum day a national holiday,
-scrutinizing the voter rolls to remove potential voters.
-Having the referendum during the work week so most people only have a limited amount of time to attempt to vote
They have shown since this process began they have no intention of backing down unless they are forced to do so
I wish you could win, just to prove to the majority of people who didn’t sign the petition. There is a group of people who can’t understand the future of the Caymanian people. We have more people who need jobs in the tourism industry to have a future where they can keep up with the cost of living. ( more money) To put their children through schools that will help them in technical and vocational schools. Where are the tourist related jobs or businesses to the East of GT? Anything in Bodden Town, Northside, East End?
Banking jobs are losing ground as more legislation is causing them to merge or move. When is the last time you checked on banking licenses? We’re going down in numbers. That means less revenue from banks. Did anyone lose their car, boat or house? They are not very forgiving. Plus they can sell without your permission. They are only a push button away from sending all deposits to larger banks around the globe.
How can we not protect our industry? Cruise ship tourism is growing every year the potential for growth is to drop our cost of living so that everyone spends more.
(https://youtu.be/XSef0yZKfb0) It benefits us and tourism. More spending by tourists at the middle class level is better for us.
Any Caymanians learning to be a Divemaster this year? Did you get your boat Captain license? Where did you get qualified for that? How many? How much? How about hotels on the beach? Make a mistake and you’re fired. Then what, work at a bank? Insurance?Construction ? Did you go to school for that? We need schools that give qualifications, certificates, licenses, diplomas for that. You will see more if you open your eyes and ears. Merry Christmas.
You have the same right to work you ass off for your dreams as me.
if you dont have the votes yet then the majority of the people must want the port to go through.
If many of us cared about your petition it would have been signed and finished long ago. Can’t you see if you have to drag it out this long then we are happy with what our elected MLAs are doing, and don’t want to waste money to run a referendum vote?
Many of you are frightened hares who are afraid to lose your job because you feel you are dispensable and easily replaceable and have no power.
That is where you are wrong. You assume because someone draws a different conclusion than you, there is a problem with their consideration. You are being offensive. That’s not democracy.
No mate. That’s what the government and fools like you are doing.
No you’d rather waste money on a 200+ million dollar port and a 25 year deal with international for profit interests who don’t give a rats ass about Cayman
I love when the people advocating for the largest project in our history as a country act as if the cost of an referendum is some insurmountable amount
Why don’t we just cut the act and discontinue the general elections every 4 years too since we are trying to save money
The government and their sheeple love to brag about their surpluses up until you ask them to spend the money on something of importance then it is stingy penny pinching fiscal “responsibility”
I’m not sure you can describe the dock as the largest project ever in Cayman. Given the population and the level of development at the time, that honour must surely go to the airpprt which was constructed in 1952 and had a huge effect on the Island.
The airport would have been built eventually. Look at St Helena. They don’t have 5,000 people and the UK built them a £285m airport. The dock is an option we have, that it is not inevitable we will need. The consequences thus get weighted differently in the analysis. Marine engineering is also much harder to get right than a building. We are quite literally out of our depth there. Then you factor in the actual cost, which is the largest figure anyone can ever remember hearing for a project cost, and the revenue we will give away. Then you add in that, unlike with a building, the seabed cannot be returned to its previous state if you change your mind. I could keep going but you get the idea.
Years of political apathy doesn’t just evaporate overnight
Not to mention Government backed propaganda and fear-mongering and purposefully confusing voters with false information and industry and media supporting said propaganda
There are also the people who simply support the PPM and CDP no matter what they do
and there are the the people in the tourism industry that have been tricked into believing they will directly benefit from the construction of the port economically
My sweet ! Desperation setting in, I wish them because they will need it lots of it
Waste of energy. Why dont you take the time and energy and go and read with a child or help the elderly.
Please hurry ans build the piers.
You should try reading your comments before posting.
Expat petition. Struggling.
Thousands of Caymanian Signatures
They represent something
The paid lies being used by the government to confuse Caymanians and muddy the waters will not stop the process
A PPM government oversaw the drafting and implementation of the 2009 Constitution
But now A PPM led coalition decry and detests the use of one of it’s provisions?
Every signature added makes it harder to get the next, there are only around 21,000 registered voters
Once you take out the mindless partisan PPM voters and the mindless partisan CDP voters that leaves maybe 10,000 voters who are not party affiliated with which to collect signatures
They have already collected more signatures than the entire list of CDP candidates won in 2017
Collecting 25% of any electorate in any jurisdiction is a tall order to fill
Especially in a nation as politically apathetic as Cayman
While you may be able to shrug off 20% of the electorate
I wonder how many more losses the PPM and CDP can take?
Ignoring a vocal and politically active segment of the population as your parties declines seems like a smart way to win in 2020
2021*
Never gonna get it.
Same thing they said about OMOV too
How did that work out?
The PPM had a net loss of 2 seats and the CDP can only win in WB so all in all, it could be worse
Never ever gonna get it
No you’re never gonna get it
Never ever gonna get it
I wish they did have an expat petition because many of us would sign in support. Should be asking visitors to the island too as they are the people getting on cruise ships and planes to come here. I can tell you now, most of the cruise ship passengers I have spoken to over the last couple of years are horrified at the proposed piers and wanton destruction of the environment.
I am Caymanian and signed it so let’s call it the common sense petition, shall we?
Common sense? Tell me did the PPM and the majority of the elected members not all say that if you voted them in they would build the port? What else are we going to sign a petition for? Can they tie their shoelaces in the morning?
The PPM doesn’t have a majority
So claiming they have a mandate is farcical
and most of the Independents never ran on a cruise port (in fact at least one of them ran AGAINST it and has since then pivoted on his campaign rhetoric)
they are the most complete group. Independents are not a group. So yes they are our Government.