Women plan legal action after marriage rejection
Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden
(CNS): A woman from the Cayman Islands and her fiancée are taking legal action after their application for a marriage licence was rejected Monday by the General Register because they are in a same-sex relationship. Chantelle Day, who is Caymanian, and her partner Vickie Bodden, who is British, have been together for more than six years and now wish to formalise their relationship. Currently living in the United Kingdom, the couple want to get married in the Cayman Islands, return to the country to settle with their young child and, like all other Caymanian couples, enjoy a loving and lawful family life.
But, Day told Cayman News Service, unlike other couples in long-term relationships who want their dream wedding and a future with their friends and family in their own country, that is not currently possible for them because of the continued discrimination that exists in Cayman when it comes to same-sex unions and gay couples.
“I am proud to be Caymanian but I am undisputedly a second-class citizen in my own country,” Day said, because equal rights are not extended to all Caymanians. “I would dearly love for my newly expanded family to return to my homeland, the Cayman Islands, so that I can be around my supportive family and friends, and raise our child in a stable and loving environment, teaching our child the Cayman way of life.”
The couple have tried persuasion and have engaged in protracted communications with the Cayman Islands Government and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to pave the way for a legal wedding but they have had no response from the Cayman authorities and little support from the FCO. So, after months of in-depth research, taking extensive legal advice both in Cayman and the UK and gathering the support of their family and friends here, Day and Bodden have made the decision to take on the injustice through the courts.
“We have not embarked on this decision lightly and we have tried to do this amicably by approaching the authorities in Cayman and the FCO, who both know that the law in Cayman is discriminatory but they have effectively forced our hands,” said Day, who is also a qualified lawyer. “We are not out to cause trouble, we just want the same rights as any other couple in love.”
She explained that their first move was to apply for licence to marry. On a visit to the Cayman Islands last week from London the couple headed to the General Registry and filed their application. But, as expected, on Monday they received a formal letter rejecting the application because the law defines marriage in the Cayman Islands as a union between men and women only. It is that rejection that the couple now plan to challenge by requesting a judicial review or bringing an action under the Constitution. Day said that the decision will be made very soon and a legal action filed as promptly as possible.
Day explained why they are taking this route, given that her fiancée is a native of Britain, where same-sex marriage is legal. She said that while they could be legally married in the UK, that partnership would not be recognised here in the Cayman Islands, making it impossible for the couple to live long-term in Cayman, where they are both determined to settle.
“We don’t want to have to fight in the country of my birth to validate our marriage, as that feels extremely unjust. We want to be able to enjoy our dream wedding day knowing that it will be recognised,” she added.
The current situation would mean that if they returned to Cayman as a couple legally married in the UK, Bodden could not be Day’s dependent, as is the case with other spouses. Day pointed out that even same-sex foreign national couples where both parties hail from countries where such unions are legal have more rights under the law to enjoy a family life than she does as a Caymanian. Bodden and Day would not have the same protections simply because Day is Caymanian. They would not be able to make decisions about their health, pensions, property or any other important issue relating to family life.
Aware that the steps they are taking will cause some controversy, Day asked those who oppose same-sex marriage to put themselves in her shoes.
“Government has put in place a discriminatory policy that affects some Caymanians, making them less equal. People may not think that this is an important issue but it is. I am not the only Caymanian in this position; there are many more in a similar situation,” she said.
It is understood that over the last year the immigration department has turned down applications from at least two married Caymanians with expat spouses to have their partners live here as their dependents, driving them from their homeland.
Seeking a lawful family life in her home country, Day said that she sees no other way forward but the legal challenge to force the reluctant hand of government. Day said that she and Bodden should not have to take this action and she is disappointed, not just with her own government but the UK as well.
She said that same-sex couples are, as a matter of existing law, required to be provided with a legal framework to register their relationships and to acquire most or all of the rights of married different-sex couples, pursuant to a case in the European Court of Human Rights (Oliari and Others v. Italy ECHR, 21 July 2015).
“The lack of such a framework in the Cayman Islands is a clear and unequivocal breach of the European Convention on Human Rights, which is binding on the Cayman Islands government,” Day said, adding that the Cayman Islands government has acknowledged this breach. “I believe the government is fearful of their voters seeing them as willingly supporting the move. Instead they would rather use me as the scapegoat and burden my family with the task of holding them accountable publicly on a matter on which they are internationally obligated to comply.”
The local Human Rights Commission has also noted this legal obligation and has urged the CIG to address the issue in law — a call that has fallen on deaf ears. In her parting address to Cayman, former governor Helen Kilpatrick spoke about the need for Cayman to provide a legal framework for same-sex partnerships, an issue supported by Deputy Governor Franz Manderson.
The new governor, Anwar Choudhury, has also made it clear that he expects the local government to address the inequity over same-sex unions. But there seems little sense of urgency from the FCO to force the issue.
Although there are still strong dissenting voices about legalising same-sex marriage or equivalent legal unions, including from the government and opposition benches of the Legislative Assembly as well as the church community, an increasing number of Caymanians are recognising the injustice of the current situation and that the time is now right to make the move.
Day said she is still bemused that the British Government is standing back and choosing to ignore what is clearly direct discrimination and a continuous breach of the ECHR Convention in its territories.
But given the situation, they have no choice but to press on with their legal challenge, regardless of the cost. Confident they can win, they are hopeful of setting a date for their dream Cayman wedding sooner rather than later, and in the process making history as Cayman’s first same-sex marriage.
To assist Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden in their legal fight, visit their Gofundme page.
See Chantelle Day’s opinion piece in the UK’s Independent here
Category: Laws, Local News, Politics
The pro v anti religion debate is asinine.
Paganism predated all of this and via its records and remnants it is clear heterosexuality was the standard.
The back and forth is so ridiculous.
For example, Japan is an atheist country yet gay marriage is a big no-no for their society as well.
Religious people earnestly believe they are opposed to homosexuality because their holy text speaks against it; but they are also mistaken.
It is much deeper than one’s faith or Holy Bible. Yes, it is.
Most of us are just lost in the sauce of modern norms and rhetoric.
The superior and exceptional essence of human heterosexuality has existed from time immemorial and shall remain until the sun burns out.
There is no EQUALITY.
The part you leave out is that even Japan is shifting in that mindset
Same sex sexual activity was legalized there in 1980 (20 years before Cayman was forced to do so by the UK)
Japanese culture is also not overly hostile towards homosexuals like the west has a history of being
Opinion polls claim that the majority of the country are in favor of SSM though polls are always iffy
Legal rights are not universal but the population is not overly against the idea of equality and specific areas offer different rights
Areas in Japan have also begun recognizing partnerships of the same sex
Calling Japan “atheist” is also a huge misconception but you don’t seem to particularly care for facts, they are a very spiritualistic country (Shinto focuses on the past connections in Japan and divinity)
Their faith may be different from the faiths in the west but that doesn’t discount its legitimacy, they also have large groups of Buddhists
You have a point that the debate does go deeper than the bible or mere Christianity (anyone get the reference?)
But acting like it isn’t the driving force behind Cayman’s issues currently is inaccurate bordering on lying
Diogenes
And the part you don’t understand is that Japan was simply a side-lying referenced example upon which you grabbed on and erected 96% of your reply.
(However, you’re welcome for the inspiration to deeply research the relevant aspects of Japanese history and culture … man you need a girlfriend.)
Putting that aside, the closer to your long-winded reply confirms the fact that you have completely failed to understand the general point of my original post.
Debating logic and science with individuals who take mythology literal is generally an exercise in futility. Homosexual behaviour is not limited to humans, it’s consistently observed in other species so the dispute about natural vs unnatural has long been resolved. It’s been observed in human populations throughout recorded history all over the planet in all cultures, it’s not going anywhere just because you don’t like it. I sincerely wish Christians in general had a better understanding of the context of the birth and evolution of the abrahamic religions so they would have a more complete understanding of what their religion actually is.
“Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble.”
-JC
There is mythology and there is truth.
Jesus is the Truth, anything else is mythology.
If you don’t believe me, just ask Him.
Remember He rose from the dead just for us.
I’m with Him. No mythological people, gods, governments or entities have ever done anything like that for me.
And when this life is over, like it will be for us all, I will be just fine. Join us.
Jesus Christ, bobo, you’re joking right? You don’t really believe this Jesus is the truth foolishness do you?
Don’t “Bobo” me.
When you meet Jesus, you can ask Him for yourself.
Agreed @ 11:40 am.
They know not what they do!
Hopefully that is the case. They will know.
Chantelle is one of Roy’s GTE constituents, and figure-head for dozens of second-class Caymanians involved in the same legitimate civil rights fight. Roy’s a smart guy, surely he should be listening and representing her better in the LA to avoid the looming public-funds lawsuit? Our MLAs are duty-bound to listen to their constituents, and be guided by the law. Otherwise, we, the public, wind up footing the bill for loosing poker hands. These ladies will be mopping the floor with our MLAs and territorial reputation if this goes to trial on an international stage. More unnecessary public money wastage, headlines, and tourism short-sightedness fighting an historical inevitability that will come from Mother if it must. Proud of what these women are doing, but sad and disappointed that our MLAs, and vociferous bible thumpers, can’t predict the end of this story. History will be the judge in the weeks ahead.
~ An embarrassed Caymanian.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/cayman-islands-same-sex-marriage-lgbt-rights-gay-british-territory-overseas-a8308571.html#commentsDiv
Civil Rights are not Natural inborn Rights. I can be pedophile and say I am sexually oriented for young boys and girls. Get rid of the age limit laws. Its my civil rights!
But what rights?
They are not Natural Rights! A hige difference. My skin color is a Natural Right! What the LGBT and at times CNS don’t like, is when you tell the truth: The gay gene has not been discovered. So why are these big countries having anti-discriminatory laws for something that is not scientifically proven to be a Natural Right.
So the LGBT (again, what CNS supports) use the disguise of Civil Rights and many people up these huge countries being put in fined or persecuted for it.
I say Caymanians need to stay their ground. And defend what is NATURAL RIGHTS for all.
Unison ?
* Thanks for posting
Of course you compare homosexuality to pedophilia leaving out the fact that pedophilia involves children below the age of consent.
Homosexuality is the attraction to the same sex
Pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children who by that fact can be easily preyed upon and cannot give consent in any sense of the word
Perhaps you forget that the vast majority of Cayman’s convicted pedophiles are straight men who go after little girls
And again with this lunacy Unison you clearly aren’t a logical man and that is your business, if you are fine making a fool of yourself in a public forum I won’t stop you.
But
If according to your argument there needs to be a gay gene to justify protecting the LGBTQ minority where is the freedom of religion gene? or the freedom of speech gene. Freedom of religion and speech are fundamental human rights
Where is the property ownership gene? Since a gene is necessary for something to be considered a human right
You are working backwards from your conclusion and making a fool of yourself while you are at it
The best part about all of this is, you think you are actually winning this debate with your half baked and illogical arguments
Thank you for taking the time to respond to that poster. It is unbelievable that in 2018 that you even have to point this out to someone.
Yes, we have seen your type before.
Remember the PIE people? Could you read the article and please elaborate?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10666875/Patricia-Hewitt-called-for-age-of-consent-to-be-lowered-to-ten.html
What is your take on this?
Age of consent is fine where it is,
How does pointing out the difference between pedophilia and homosexuality align someone with pedophiles?
Comparing the two is not only illogical and inaccurate but reprehensible. Can gay people be pedophiles? Yes no one is denying that, but which group do you think makes up the majority of pedophiles? the tiny fraction percentage of persons who are in the LGBTQ group or heterosexual men and women (yes women can be pedophiles too but in the west we basically all but ignore that)
Just more misinformation spread in the well recorded attempt to put gays in the same ring as pedophiles so that people detest them
Diogenes
Funny, no takers here.
Our unassailable Natural Rights as human beings include being treated fairly regardless of race, religion, ethnic background, gender, or sexual orientation. We also have Civil Rights as a UK Dependent Territory. My forefathers proudly fought in the Great Wars, some generously gave their lives against hatred, tyranny, and evil to perpetuate diversity and defended these legitimate British rights and liberties. They will be applied in time – by Order in Council if necessary, before or after these ladies win their justifiable CIG lawsuit and receive a meaningful cash payout from our public account. Great shame on all that oppose or forget the important history of the United Kingdom and Allies, and doom us to fail the history lesson with a treasonous cash payout!
Your wrong. Natural rights include being treated fairly because you are a human being. Not because I like men or you like women or he likes children or she like her sister … You have to be kidding me!
You need to go and study what a Natural right is!
Not everybody agrees on what natural rights are, there have been conflicting philosophies since Plato. Furthermore natural law, which is what natural rights are generally based on, is subject to human observation of nature. That said, it’s perfectly acceptable for what is perceived as natural law to change through time as our observation of nature is never perfect and absolute. Your understanding of what is natural is limited to your life experiences. Some one who lives their life as a part of a desert tribe over 2000 years ago will have a different perception of what natural law is from someone living in a developed country in the present. We now live in a time where the scientific method has allowed us to separate bias from observation and our understanding of natural law has changed dramatically in the last few centuries therefore it’s inevitable that peoples “rights” will as well.
Peace
“Our MLAs are duty-bound to listen to their constituents, and be guided by the law. Otherwise, we, the public, wind up footing the bill for loosing poker hands…” oh if only they ever REALLY did that.. But sad truth is successive administrations for decades just ignore us and screw us over. It will continue until we have good, educated, accountable, financially and internationally astute representatives to take their place.
Thinking there is nothing voters can do is wrong. Any voter can initiate a voter-led petition to the governor at any time for any reason.
I agree. Seems like Chantelle and Vickie are the only ones with balls.
This place never ceases to amaze me. Over 300 comments and going strong, all commenting on a matter which is private business and absolutely nothing to do with any of us. If the ladies want to marry, let them. If you believe they will rot in hell, that is their problem, not yours, and it doesn’t give you the right to stick your big hooter in. If you support them (as I do) that is also my problem. None of us have a right to dictate how they live, nor should we.
What you should be tackling immediately, is your MLA on crime, on education, or job opportunities, obesity, on keeping Cayman clean and litter free, all of which directly affect Cayman and its residents everyday lifestyle. But no, you just got to go sticking your noses in other peoples business. Priorities are seriously screwed here, very seriously. Seek to change what the real problems are and potentially within our control, but you will never change love.
BTW, gluttony is a sin as I recall? Look in the mirror some of you, ‘cos damn….. I will bet a lot of those same gluttons are the nasty commentators hereon.
I agree wholeheartedly. But the gay couple can always do the marriage in California or Timbukto! And instead of trying to change our marriage laws here, they can defend NATURAL RIGHTS FOR EVERYBODY …
The SSM in other countries sorry to say is conflicting with the NATURAL RIGHTS of others. Do you want this for our small island???
Think! ?
This makes no sense whatsoever
Somehow straight people are the victims in this situation
Forgetting of course that straight people are the majority and hold the majority of the power in the world, somehow you are claiming that gay people are oppressing your “rights”
There really is no cure for stupid
Maybe its because the biasness makes you lack sense ?
The “biasness”???
The word bias is what you were looking for Unison
and you just made an even bigger fool of yourself
“We” already have the Civil obligation. “We” are already in breach. Our local laws will be amended, not only to recognize same sex unions, but to defend these civil rights, and opposition, a hate-crime.
No such hate-crime exists in Cayman. To change the laws without the will of its people is ridiculous. You recommend the tail wagging the dog?
Either you cannot read or you cannot think! Read and overstand the article. You and others have your heads buried in the sand. Gay people are all over the island already. Probably one or two on your street and at your work. Many are Caymanians keeping it on the DL because of folk like you. This affects far more than the couple who are the subject of this article.
There you go Unison, sticking your nose in, deciding what other people should do and where.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Everyone should be concerned if have not yet repented and put their trust in “The Saviour of the World Jesus Christ”
God might not take kindly to people who judge. That job is his alone. The very paraphrase you use demonstrates my point.
This hatred is not what the Bible or the Saviour of the World, Jesus Christ preach.
Oh, pretty much everyone in Cayman is screwed then! All fornicators, abusers, alcoholics and judging those whom only the good Lord should judge.
Do not be deceived!
2 Peter: 2:6
and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
Romans 1:26-28
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.
As it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end.
Do not be deceived. The unrightous will not inherit the kingdon of God.
I’m not condemming I am warning you, turn from your wicked ways and turn to Jesus Christ of Nazareth the son of the True and living God; That you may escape the judment to come. Hell is real! and you will be there if you reject Jesus Christ and His Words.
Repent everyone of you and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Amen!!!
Unless you are gay right, then no forgiveness? Such a loving Lord…at least he is in my book and loves all God’s creatures…you are just a despotic freak control quoting the convenient. Seek help and learn to think for yourself.
Where is the ROFLMFAO button when you need it most?
You go ahead and enjoy your make believe friend.
But if you ARE going to punch the bible you might try reading it.
Especially the bits about the rights of SLAVES. Perfectly acceptable to big G according to the holy book.
I am a Christian and I am conflicted over this.
Conflicted because I know what the Bible says about homosexuality but I question if it right to put laws in place that originate from the Bible that will affect others that don’t believe in God or the Bible?
Based on my Christian beliefs and the very design of the human bodies, I believe homosexuality is not natural. Two men or two women cannot procreate but it is not my place to judge those who have chosen that path. I don’t hate people and certainly not because their choices are different than mine.
From another perspective, people talk about “feelings” and “love” and “you can’t help who you love”, but where do we draw the line? If a father decides that he loves his daughter and wants to marry her or a mother wants to marry her son or a sister and brother want to marry (consenting adults), why are people horrified about those situations but it is okay for two men or two women to be together?
If the issue is that the constitution says “marriage” is between a man and woman then perhaps a Civil Registry could be created to register civil unions which would give partners the same rights/benefits as heterosexual couples?
I see many people in the Cayman Islands turning away from God but in the end, who are they answering to? Not me, but to God so let God judge them on their actions, he will certainly judge me on mine and not my neighbour’s.
All sex is unnatural.
If it is any good.
If a father marries his daughter; or a mother her son; or a sister and brother, and they breed, there is an obvious risk of birth defects and infant mortality. That risk is non-existent with two men or two women.
Can’t we just have the law changed to allow this for two women? Its really only the men that Eden, Suckoo and their merry band of bigots are concerned about anyway.
This is a nasty hateful post.
But very funny.
And sadly, true.
Just how same-sex marriage infringes on the natural rights of other people – including the birth rights of children and parental rights of education, is whole other DARK SIDE to this “its about love and equality” movement.
And I wish not to participate with the long nonsense and drivels of approvals I see on this site. Two ignorant classes of commenters: Those bashing God and morality. And those who are claiming Christianity but not looking at the issue from a fair and democratic balance.
In all, as a moralistic libertarian, why in the world should any government get involved in people’s married life! Marriage is a personal thing. It does not belong to the state except for when children and major assets are concerned. But pretty much if gay people want to marry (do their own thing), let them. You need no legislation enforcing it on the country – enforcing taught in schools, enforcing radical changes on our documents, enforcing parents to comply, making anti-discrimination laws against peoples free speech, children forced into same-sex homes with two dads, the list goes on … these things are what communists do. Like I said the SSM has a dark side, a very slippery slope dark side to it! When you enforce it and make it a law you open a can of worms. Look what is happening in the U.S. and U.K. Look at the matters going before the Supreme Courts.
CAYMANIANS WE ARE SMALL!
Government need to stick to protecting people’s rights.
SO VOTE NO TO SSM
And dont become religiously fool fool about it, quoting Bible text and not knowing what you quoting ?. Just use common sense. State common sense reasons. There are there. Stand up for human rights, but say –
IT MUST INCLUDE PROTECTING EVERYBODY
My 2 cent,
Unison
So much stupidity in one comment
Its hard to read this much shit
“Communists” “Same sex dads”
and you claim to be “moralistic”
What a joke you are
Diogenes
Chantelle and Vicky I cannot wait to celebrate with you when you win your lawsuit. Ignore the haters they are just ignorant. You are my heroes. LOVE IS LOVE!!!
“The British government’s various laws enshrining equality for gay and transgender people do not extend to the territory”
This matter is really a non-issue since a human’s desire does not outrank God or nature.
Our current Constitution prohibits the court from granting the relief these litigants are seeking.
Once this legal matter becomes a national issue, it will take less than two weeks to shut this down by gathering the required 5,296 signatures for a People-initiated referendum by putting this to a national vote, which Cabinet is OBLIGATED BY THE CONSTITUTION to respect the decision of the majority of registered voters in the Cayman Islands in this case.
And if the majority of registered Caymanian voters direct Cabinet to keep our constitutional marriage definition between one man and one woman, and if the FCO further attempts to interfere with our self-governing AFTER the majority of the Caymanian Christian voters have spoken, then the nuclear option of independence can always be accelerated since we are a constitutionally acknowledged Christian territory and the majority of the Caymanian Christian voters will have spoken to this national issue.
We will not be bullied into changing our religious beliefs.
We’ve read the end of the Bible, and in the end, we win!
Hahahaha! Go for it tiger! Cos independence would make so much sense! Nutter!
Yes, you would say he/she is a nutter, because you know damn well if we went independent you would be on the first flight out of here!
Poor you.
(Refresher of yesterday’s post below):
“I must say this is very well orchestrated play by the couple.
Not sure which side is playing the other the most, but the ladies know their support base will be primarily from within the expat aka immigrant community.
They also realise said support is primarily driven by the fact that most locals are perceived to be opposed to gay marriage in the Cayman Islands and for some reason, that seems to inspire many newly-arrived folks around here.
This is evidenced by the selection of default currency on their GoFundMe page as GBP.
Not only are Caymanians far more familiar with USD (therefore were clearly not in mind when the campaign was created), many are also reluctant to risk the charge of currency conversion fees as they donate.
However, these crafty ladies are well aware that won’t be a concern for the majority of their sponsors.
So, do your thing ladies – and may justice have the final say.
– Whodatis
*I won’t be (financially) supporting your cause, and not because of the actual issues at hand.
Instead, primarily because I cannot support this public dragging of my community ESPECIALLY when topped off by funding from the same group of people that have made it abundantly clear – they do not care much for the welfare of Caymanian people in general.
Look no further than the archives of this very online community for evidence of the above.
Yes, this same “pro-gay marriage”, progressive, social-justice bastion of unicorns, marshmallows, and mermaids today … was the most racist and discriminatory bunch not even 24 hours ago (Windrush generation news story).
Bear in mind ladies, many of these sponsors of your gay marriage would never support their daughter marrying your son – and not because he has 2 mommies at home.”
CNS: (Re the deleted part at the beginning) You can ask me the questions by email. Be nice if you want a reply though. I don’t have much patience today for snarky emails.
It’s in GBP because they live in the U.K… genius failed to connect the dots there. Also they have received an overwhelming amount of support from their fellow Caymanians, who thankfully all are not as narrow minded and menacing as you.
1.) I am well aware of where they live and why the default currency may be GBP. However, as a born and raised Caymanian, I am also acutely aware (as are they, presumably) that the current set-up of their fundraising campaign will automatically discourage the average potential Caymanian donor.
Again, that was not a concern of theirs as they were clearly banking on support from outside the community in which they are trying to bring change.
That is treasonous in my eyes.
They had a decision to make in this regard (because there were a number of alternatives in this regard) and they communicated that decision financially – the most telling of all statements.
I sincerely wish them all the best in their campaign, however I will not be joining or supporting for the reasons above and outlined in my original post.
2.) Care to speak to the actual meat of my post? Specifically the latter parts?
Yes, I thought not.
CNS: Who, you complain about ad hominem attacks against your pseudonym all the time, but you don’t seem to see them in calling these ladies, who are not hiding behind anonymity, “crafty” (a pejorative term) and saying their GoFundMe page is “treasonous” (which is utterly ridiculous). You keep trying to pretend that you’re being reasonable but your language and reaction to this couple and to Diogenes is beyond reason. So if I delete part of your comments when you are on this topic, it’s not CNS being “dirty” as you have asserted twice now, it’s because you do not have the correct filters when it comes to the topic of same-sex marriage. If they were standing up for their rights on the basis of skin colour, would you use those terms?
Why not just come clean and tell us why this one is so emotive for you, Bub?
You’ve been drilling at this suggestion for a while now..; Why do YOU believe “this one is so emotive for (me)”?
Furthermore, if you are suggesting what I suspect, you may want to reevaluate your own outlook on these matters.
– Who
You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. These ladies sought and got the support of their fellow Caymanians, more than you realize and will continue to get support locally. Stop being a back seat driver and educate yourself.
Actually GoFundMe doesn’t allow you to select a Cayman account as it doesn’t show up on the list of countries. You have a choose a currency based on a bank account held in one of the countries that are an option. If you’ve ever tried to raise money for a worthy cause you would know this.
I labour on this because you try to create such conspiracies out of absolutely nothing which is pathetic and I wish to expose exactly how petulant and petty you are.
As per the “meat” of your comment – not worth it as your opinions are yours and have no power to change the results of what will be long overdue change for the Caymanian LGBT+ community as a result of Chantelle and Vickie’s courage to challenge the discrimination that exists on our island.
I suggest you get used to the idea as change is coming.
Ciao, adios, I’m done.
My issue is not with the actual change, but with the selected road thereto.
– Who
@ CNS: I trust you realize that my post and stance on the ladies’ campaign is focused entirely on their selected process – as opposed to the issue itself.
Even I missed that fact until today when I reread it.
At my core, contrary to your belief, I am personally neutral when it comes to gay marriage.
However, I am not netural when anyone attempts to drag the name of my community – especially before an even greater flawed “progressive” world – topped off with the financial backing of outsiders – many of whom blatantly express ill-will for same community.
Try as you (Diogenes + anyone else) may to misrepresent my post, my words stand tall in the light.
In fact, more than once I wished the ladies justice and the best in their endeavor..however, there is no way I’ll be jumping on their bandwagon.
As for your final question; YES I would use these terms IF they engaged the same tactics as high-lighted above.
The days of the western world fraudulently claiming high moral ground over all others are long gone.
In fact, they never legitimately existed.
– Whodatis
*Re: “Dirty”.
X’ing out my original post but leaving evidence thereof with direct editorial criticism attached is the pinnacle of dirty ball.
(If you took issue with it, you could have simply deleted the post and kept it moving.)
Anyway, I’ve probably said enough to invoke that very response on this post so, we’ll see how it goes.
Thank you for explaining that very obvious point to 8:51am. Ignorance is striving on this island. Makes me embarrass to be Caymanian.
Blah blah blah…lots of words Who, no message that makes sense. I wonder why I am surprised. You just love to generalize and hate.
No Bub.
My words always make sense.
YOU and your friends may detest them, and that is fine, but they always make sense.
It ain’t my fault my momma never raised no fool.
– Who
*Btw, why reply just to reply? Does that make you feel better? Have you achieved something special?
Come on guy, speak to the issues in the post to which you reply or just stfu.
Who – There is no shortage of persons who (in their own mind) think they make sense….but really they don’t!
Speak to the message and advance your response beyond attacking the messenger.
Otherwise – save it for the birds buddy.
– Who
Goodness! Let this happen already. Why should the misery of marriage only be reserved for straight people? ?
Clearly 17 people have no sense of humour……going by the thumbs down responses.
Tbh, this shouldn’t even be an issue. If two consenting adults wish to get married, that should be the end of it. They should be allowed the same rights as any other member of our community and if we continue to not afford all people of community the same rights then we can’t say that we really care about civil rights in this country.
More power to them and the only way that we are going to get real change in this country is by taking the old bigoted guard kicking and screaming into the future. We love to use our religious dogma as a catalyst to hate and this has to change.
I respect the laws and customs of other countries even though I may not fully agree with their way of life. Just because I prefer to drive on the left side of the road, when I visit the United States I understand that if I want to drive in their country, I will have to drive on the right. I honestly do not think that they would change their laws just to accommodate me.
When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
You know there were gay Romans, right?
And where are their civilization and language today?
And one of the reasons the Roman Empire fell. The fiddled and sinned while Rome burnt
Are you generalizing fiddlers now?
Nothing to do with administrative over-extension internal strife I guess
Rome fell because people were gay, makes sense
Diogenes
Yes, and in your home country you have the right to challenge the laws you don’t agree with
Yes and please remember that this is HER country, she is from Cayman so she is fighting for her rights in her country.
yep…when in nazi germany do as the nazi’s do…..zzzzzzzzzzz
It appears that Caymans leading print newspaper is taking the same stand on this issue as our politicians. And that is to totally ignore it deal with it later.
Same approach I take to “Cayman’s leading print newspaper”/ propaganda sheet.
I say we ALL do our best to get these ladies international attention. Let’s help put the spotlight down for the whole world to see.
All of this bickering over some god no one is able to prove exists.
Oh, He exists alright. I have been in His Presence. I can tell you this. He is very, very holy, full of power, truth, righteousness, compassion, mercy and all that is good.
We ridicule Him at our own peril.
It is impossible for me to stop believing having experienced what I have. I do not go to any church, I belong to no denomination, but His Presence is utterly overwhelming, just as it should be.
The problems in this world our all caused by our own stubbornness.
Our systems exclude God, we are miserable chasing money and are now on the brink of WW3.
Anecdotal evidence, how compelling
Of course when it comes down to it, you have absolutely nothing to back this all up… of course that is what you are depending on to keep the show going
Cause in all likelihood no one is behind the curtain, and deep inside you feel the truth and that is what you are really scared of
Umm I can actually prove god exists pero yah tu sabes (-;
Or prove doesn’t exist
I believe that gay people should be allowed to marry becasue what difference does it really make to me? It isn’t worth much thought.
What’s frustrating is that we will see this keeping a lot of public and political attention in the coming years when we have far more important issues that need to be dealt with. I see a lot of people who remain indifferent to the running of this country coming out of the woodwork in order to voice their opinions of hatred. This actually serves as quite a useful tool for governments around the world as a method of distraction. I will not be in the least bit surprised if nothing is resolved with this matter and it becomes a political debate come next election.
Why is our government moving forward with the port in the midst of mass public opposition? Why is our education system failing so many of our young people? Why haven’t we pursued a more ambitious renewable energy programme?
We really need to get our priorities straight.
I agree with your comment completely!
Let’s be honest here, you bible thumpers are mostly part of the Protestant
Meaning here.
a member or follower of any of the Western Christian Churches that are separate from the Roman Catholic Church in accordance with the principles of the Reformation, including the Baptist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran Churches.
Only really came about becuase some King (Henry 8th) wanted to get a devorce from his 1st wife.
He also beheaded his wife’s and imprisoned them.
Hmmm
So it’s fine to kill his wife’s?
As for the Bible I’m pretty sure it was written a couple hundred years after Jesus had died, sh..t you guys, just look at our fisher men, the 1st man catches a fish 2ft long in George Town by the time the news hits west bay if 6ft and in eastend it’s 10feet.
Also, if memory servers me correct Jesus early years are in the Bible but after the age of 12yrs to 30yrs there’s nothing written about him but when he story starts again, he’s infront of a brothel with hookers and theirs. I know exactly what I would have been doing when I hit pubity till I was 30 and had his powers (use your imagination)
Man unna jokers..
Good for you girls continue your fight, the world has changed, no matter what we believe in times are changing and if these 2 girls want to make a better life together raising their child, it’s better than some Bible thumping slut spreading her legs to some gangster boy and not have a father or a Mother who gives a sh..
Maybe this is a sign from God, saying we have screwed up rising our kids, as I don’t know many persons in the LGB community who separate in fact this community is bringing back fame values and not raising criminals and wannabees or would we prefer to have a bunch of single mothers out there with criminal kids robbing us.
Oh, as for the Bible thumpers, I’m pretty sure the Bible asks us to question it as well as get on with our lives as God new we aren’t prefect.
You certainly are not ‘prefect’ at grammar or spelling Mr or Mrs ‘Fake News’
Who cares?
Do you honestly believe what you have just said? I mean really honestly as in final day honesty?
Only you can answer that question.
Best response I have read. Props to you sir.
Readers I encourage you to have a read of the following article.
It just might cause us to have a rethink of this topic since we claim to be this ‘Christian Nation.”
The Church and Homosexuality
————————————————————————————————————————-
By The Rev. Fr. Sean Major-Campbell
Many churches are sure about the sexuality of their members. They know that once they are Christians, none will be homosexual. Some churches are so sure about this that it is not necessary for the subject to be addressed in any of its forums.
What if we were truthful, and acknowledged that the church like any other religious body has always had members of different sexual orientations. The Lambeth Conference (meeting of Anglican Bishops every ten years), postulated among some guidelines, the fact that:
-homosexuals are full members of the Church
-the irrational fear of homosexuals is to be condemned
The study also acknowledges rightly, that homosexuality is incompatible with Holy Scripture. Of course our youth are intelligent enough to ask questions as: Are not the following incompatible with Holy Scripture:
Not following the Jewish practice if keeping the Sabbath; not observing the dietary laws; the braiding of hair; the preaching of women; the use of tattoos; divorce, and the list could go on.
The Taliban regime addresses the matter of homosexuality in a very easy way. Death by stoning!
One of the questions that we as Christians will have to wrestle with for a long time, is whether we want to work with an enlightened approach, informed by deeper study into the word of God, and that of research in the various fields informing the difficult subject of human sexuality; or whether we are to go the Taliban way?
A popular sign used by many committed Christians is that of WWJD? -What Would Jesus Do? Would Jesus tell us to shut up and simply do as the Mosaic tradition stipulates?
Seek and you shall find. If you are a seeker after truth, you will recognize that the answers to life’s questions are not as simple as pulling a bible verse, hence the value of listening, discussing, and communicating with compassion.
The Roman Catholic Declaration of Sexual Ethics 1975 states, “Homosexual acts are disordered and can in no case be approved of.” Another Christian perspective is reflected in a Methodist discussion document 1979 – “Homosexual acts are not wrong, since the quality of any homosexual relationship is . . . to be assessed the same way as a heterosexual relationship. For homosexual men and women, permanent relationships characterized by love can be appropriate and Christian way of expressing their sexuality.” Here we have two opposing views, though nevertheless equally Christian positions.
Is it any wonder why some people find religion to be a confusing scenario? This is however another reminder to us, that this business of life and human society are not simply about reading the bible and finding easy answers.
What for example should one make of culture in which a young girl can be gang raped by order from the elders (in Pakistan), while they teach the virtues of the sacred texts. Consider such quotes from Hadith – “Let no man be in privacy with a woman who is not lawful unto him, or Shaitan will be the third.” Look even at Surah 17:32, “Have nothing to do with adultery, for it is a shameful thing, and an evil opening the way to other devils.” How noble! Yet the same follows/elders sought to restore a family’s dignity by ordering the 18-year-old sister of the ‘offender’ to be raped. Never mind the fact that she was a teacher of the Holy Koran. I suppose these rapists just had to reluctantly and involuntarily do their job.
These same elders would hold dear Surah 26:165-166, “Of all the creatures in the world, will you approach males and abandon those whom Allah created for you as mates?” It would seem pertinent for an onlooker to ask questions such as:
1.Would it be nobler thing to marry and abuse the mates that Allah has created?
2.Would it also be wiser to obey the sacred texts, marry a member of the opposite sex, and frustrate both yours selves in the process, even though neither of you have any sexual desire or attraction for each other?
3.Does the value of a woman begin and end with her capacity to meet sexual needs?
Maybe it seem unholy to ask these questions. But what should people think when the words and actions, of the religious, are so often out of sync with the reality of a struggling humanity? Maybe God should take some of the blame. Why were we not all just made to act and think in the same way? I suppose God wanted us to be different.
Whatever the questions, and the differences, and the interpretations, it seems as if we in the Church will have to come to that place, where we understand that, there are genuine Christians EVERYWHERE, who have never known themselves to be anything but gay/lesbian.
Believe it or not, some of these same persons are also our esteemed nurses, doctors, lawyers, teachers, police officers, bankers, and clerks! And sometimes as we condemn them in our generalizations, they are our particular colleagues or friend, son or daughter, who has never disclosed to us their truth. Why? Our assumed holiness retards our ability to move beyond the scourge of prejudice and stereotype that has long alienated people because of their colour, gender, sexual orientation, and other factors.
Beloved let us love one another for love is God. Amen. (Oops, I completely forgot the popular convenience quotes: but you know them already).
Cayman Net News, Issue 958, Wednesday, 2 November 2005, p.b-5
To add a final note to this brilliant piece of writing, let us not take for granted this equally wonderful quote from John 4:12.” No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.”
Oh Lawd Jesus don’t let dis appen. Mi seeya youchoob about dis warning dat God angra at Cayman.
Or angra with your spelling.
Legal action. What a joke.
I’ll take her job in London any day. Approve the marriage please.
What do you expect in Cayman
West Bay hates George Town
Grand Cayman hate the Bracers
The locals hate the expats
The poor hate the Rich
So of course these ladies are hated ..what a shame
In this Christian country the hypocrisy is incredible .This is what religion does to people !
While I agree with your poInts about the dislikes of one set on another, I disagree with your comment about religion. It is not what religion does, it’s what the sheep following the herd think and then act accordingly. Religion / Christianity is about acceptance, right? Why then is the line drawn on this subject?
“1 Corinthians 6:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites”
Regardless of who wants to throw mud at the other, sin won’t enter Heaven.
Stop quoting the Bible for your benefits; homosexuality is a sin and yes God will judge on that and all other sins. The homosexual won’t be able to say “well, my sin is no greater than hers – she is an adulterer” nor will the adulterers be able to avoid judgement because of there being fornicators. Those found guilty of sin will be condemned to a lake of fire.
So…there you have it!
Remind me to stay out of your church…
And whether or not they end up in a lake of fire is no concern of yours
Well it will be a concern of theirs.
Guys, this whole argument is not about hating. It is about realizing that we have been given life by a wonderful Creator.
Why serve the devil? He hates us all. Serve God who loves us so much that He gave His only begotten Son to pay for our sins.
Is it your right to judge? Yes or no?
The answer is no. I have decimated this argument of yours several times, using scripture, and now it’s time to try to common sense. Here it is:
The laws of a sentient civilsation aspire toward equality of people in the eyes of the law. They do not incorporate religious ideals as a rule, because religion is not measurable. For myself, my faith and relationship with God is a private thing.
The bottom line is it not the business of the government or of the citizens to determine nor put measure upon two people who wish to be wed. It is not my business, nor yours. The laws prohibit discrimination. That means to measure someone anyone differently than the rest.
You are espousing discrimination. You are supporting bigotry. EVERYONE should have the same rights under the same law.
More room for you so what you so worried about hmm?
Any fool that thinks marriage is a good idea should be allowed to make their own bed.
Poor fools. You are terrified by something you can not understand. Your fear is making you hate people who are part of your family. Be glad that they don’t hate you in return.
And just like the 3000 people at Lions Centre when they thought there was a fake idea of gay marriage being forced on us oh so Christian Caymanians compared to the less than 50 that regularly show up at meetings to discuss truly vital matters like health and education, this topic already has over 200 comments. Time for Anthony to get into the battle again with his hateful stuff? Or would he be afraid Chantelle’s mother might shot him a box?
Why all the fuss? The laws of a country is set to govern the people. We all have opinions but that does not say we are above the law. We are.to obey the law. No person is subject to chartering the course of ones destiny but on the flip side one should also remember that the people shall perish for lack of knowledge.
Hell’s fire is hotttt!!! and there is plenty of space.
So because slavery was legal it was also right?
Cayman is centuries behind the world due to ignorance
or the world is just ignorant…
and inbreeding
That against the bible too, as is rape, animal torture and so on, but hey, that don’t worry Joe Caymanian. Lets just choose the bit to hate because we don’t understand, don’t want to understand and just love to hate. So Christian.
That is an incredibly rude, obnoxious and racist statement.
If that is the best you have to offer…..
Please, there was no need for that.
If you don’t like it here, you are free to leave.
You are lucky you were even published. CNS have refused to publish for lesser offensive posts and I cannot see them agreeing with yours.
Coverage in the U.K. on this:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/ayman-islands-same-sex-marriage-lgbt-rights-gay-british-territory-overseas-a8308571.html#commentsDiv
Based on the current crime issues here and economic situation of most Caymanians, they would be better of staying in the UK. It would be interesting to get the number of Caymanians that have moved to the UK for economics reasons over the last few years..
Let me know when the cayman wedding is. I’ll save the date. I wish you luck and happiness.
If they could live in England without being married to have a child, they should be able to live in Cayman to raise it .
Thank God for Politicians who can stand for Godly principles If you think we got trouble in this land now, you try becoming a nation that has turned it’s back on God and His word. I don’t believe in any hatred toward people that believe differently from me but I do believe that I am not to compromise God’s standards and commands because I’m hurting someone’s feelings. I’d rather offend man than God.
What you believe and how you act is up to you. Your belief should not dictate what the rights of others who believe or are born different from you should be.
That is your choice. Thank your God that you are free to make it while trying hard to not let another person make his or hers.
The fact that you thank God for you pathetically incompetent leadership tells everyone else all they need to know about your ability to think for anyone but yourself.
Yet you will love and praise Dart because of his money more than you love your god. Darts newspaper has not even covered this.
I suppose but this hour someone has told these two ladies that if they really want to get married that they should have done it in England. I hope they also enquired of them as to how much money they have saved up to bring this law suit against the Cayman Islands government. Surely they should be aware that our marriage laws states that marriage is between a man and a woman and the laws won’t be changed to suit their fancy. If you love Cayman as much as you say then I suggest you respect our laws because greater than the two of you have tried and failed. It just ain’t gonna happen, so no need to get yourselves in a Tissey. Enjoy your stay visiting your family and doing all the wonderful you are looking forward to doing, then have a safe flight back. If the two of you want to get married that is your right to do but our laws don’t allow you to do so on this rock.
Sit tight and watch. You will see that thankfully neither numbers nor ignorance gets to decide what is illegal discrimination. Totally behind you and beside you ladies!
The Constitution is at odds with itself and in a court case I believe human rights “discrimination” take priority over the marriage law. It is against the constitution to discriminate based on a person being “any other status” which can easily include LGBTIQ community. Just you wait and see.
Hate to break it to you but You offend God with your hatred. We do not need hateful people on this earth, reasses yourself and reassess what you think God would want and be proud of. You are disrespectful.
I guess they are hateful of these ladies, because they spoke of the truth of the Laws against same sex marriages in Cayman, while you are so loving supporting them, yet “hating” and judging how this person’s opinion makes them hateful!! Down cast stones whilst living in a glasshouse, my dearest….hate is hate and having an opinion and being able to speak it is our HUMAN RIGHT, just as it is yours to articulate your support of them!! Love, peace and harmony, oh yeah and acceptance…..that there will be others who won’t be clapping and jumping for joy with them.
Right then. That made sense. Not. America, another so called Christian nation. Most of Europe, Canada… all in hell now for allowing same sex partnerships. Not. I might be wrong on the US.
Hell? Please get off the rock and experience the world. Why is it that the happiest people I know are gay??
Those countries are in hell now because of gay marriage? Maybe spend some time travelling and less at church and you’d see that is complete BS.
Educate yourself.
OMG all of you with this God wouldn’t want this, this is against god’s wishes…what about when a man rapes a child or woman is that ok with God? What happens when husbands beat their wifes, or cheat on their wives or vis a versa that is ok with God. Stop being so ignorant. Its their lives let them live it and be happy!!! There are many many marriages here in the Cayman Islands that are just a farce.
Does the practice of religions other than Christianity offend God?
If so, why are they allowed in Cayman?
As these same “Godly” politicians whore, gamble and drink themselves into an early
grave
Looking for paragons of virtue?
You got the wrong islands bobo
You can’t be fruitful and multiply with the same sex. It’s against what God said.
You dont have to be fruitful and multiply.
THAT’S WHAT I SAID !!
Who are you?
That’s cos you have a brain and don’t repeat parrot fashion what a control freak preacher told you without even attempting to apply rational thought to those words or thoughts.
Are you barren?
The world is overpopulated. Who needs more humans??
Ok then the following people can’t marry.
i. Women who cannot have children.
ii. Men who are infertile.
Marriage is not about procreation. It is one of the aspects, but the sole reason for marriage is not so that you can have children.
Marriage is designed to “reflect what God is like” in His essential nature and His sexuality is depicted as a polar distinction Re masculinity and feminity. Marriage, which is divinely designed to show the unity in the diversity of the Godhead, distorts the imago dei if and when done between two people of the same dec are “united in marriage.” It is a slap in the face of God because it mats His image in humanity. Selah!
You can’t do that. Marriage existed before Christianity. It existed before Judaism. You can’t just say well I’m a Christian and I’m claiming this for my God. It just doesn’t work like that.
This is why Buddhists or atheists are not allowed to be married in Cayman either.
Laws of marriage align with laws of nature. It is only possible to procreate with the union of a man and a woman as nature intended. No bible needed.
And yet, they have a child.
So no Christians are barren? Or take Birth control?? GTFOH
People should stop multiplying. The world is in a terrible state and it’s because too many a$$holes breeding more a$$holes like yourself.
Then explain why they have a child.
God told Noah to build an ark. Does that mean everyone has to build an ark?
God has told various people to do various things. Simply because God told Adam and Eve to do something, doesn’t mean everyone has to do it.
Do you go about naming the animals, because God told Adam to name the animals?
What do you say to an infertile woman who wants to marry a man? She can’t, because it’s against what God said?
You can’t be ignorant and smart at the same time Bobo. God is not just a book written by man Hundreds of years ago. Unless of course…..Your ignorant.
You’re; not your
The apple don’t fall far from the tree – and looking at todays fruits I say less multiplying the better!
All the best ladies
But I don’t believe in god! Why do I have no impact of your life whatsoever but you people are constantly in my face?
I do think equality of law should be for all including these ladies. However, for those who wish to prepare themselves for a future existence in world to come, i.e after death consider reading 1 Corinthians chapter 6.
And on the 7th Day God decided to create man… but he decided to make some of those men Gay… So they went to hell for no fault of their own. And when he sent Jesus to save the souls of the world he expressly excluded the gays, because as everyone knows God hates the gays.
Lmao
This is the most ignorant comment I have read all day.
God hates NO ONE! Get that straight! He is all love. He left loves even gays!! He hates the sin!
Nowhere does the Bible say such a thing.
It is not “the sin” which your God condemns to Hell, it is the sinner.
To suggest otherwise is blasphemy. This “hates the sin, but not the sinner” thing is a modern ‘feel good” interpretation.
Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things the Lord hates,
…
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
It does not say the Lord hates “the sin” of a false witness.
It does not say the Lord hates “the sin” of a person who stirs up conflict.
The WORD of GOD says that the Lord hates those people.
Stop trying to pretend otherwise.
Lol… Word of God, written by man, translated by man, used as a tool by man to manipulate other men. Lol. Word of God. It’s disturbing to me the amount of ppl that can’t separate myth from reality, poetry from prose, figurative from the literal. Can someone please explain to me why this Hebrew myth is given any kind of priority over all other myths? Or why ppl believe that a God who is supposedly omnipotent and all powerful would need their help to battle some other mythical entity. Or why an all loving god would let his followers suffer all over the planet everyday from natural and man made disasters? Y’all scare me, literally. There are actually people out there that believe all the problems in the world can be solved by having imaginary conversations in their head, then again there are people out there that believe we live on a flat earth with mermaids and sht… Ppl are weird man. Good Luck to these young ladies tho, hope they find success fighting this archaic tribal bs.
God hates no one but his followers do…… Maybe his followers should try and think what would Jesus do…… I can’t remember him talking about homosexuals, he hung around with prostitutes and maybe just maybe he is a dam sight more forgiving and accepting than all the people who claim that their marriage or rights are being infringed by two women getting married.
Almost all the gay people I know on this island are Caymanian. I feel bad for how they are treated by their own people. These people who disregard their LGBTQ sisters and brothers are the same who come on this board and preach Caymanian rights. But only when it suits your agenda?
man and woman = child / woman and woman = no child / man to man (so unjust) = no children …. am i the only person who sees this equation. You can call me a bible trumper or whatever … but only ONE of those equations makes logical sense. YOU want to be GAY, be GAY, BUT do not force a country to change its ways to please you!!! What about the people who are not GAY! Should they not have the right to argues this as much as you GAYS? Wanna get married and your gay? Go to LAS VEGAS!
1. Yes, you are probably one of a few that sees it that way.
2. Yes, you are a jesus freak.
3. No, you are not a country. You are a colony that has to follow british/european rules.
People like you make our little island look ridiculous in the eyes of modern world.
Stop hating and insulting in the name of YOUR god.
Yes we are a country. That’s why we already have our own rules. Try not to insult people if you want to influence their opinions.
What are you talking about????
Man and infertile women = no child….. can’t get married.
Infertile man and women = no child… can’t get married.
When i got married, i didn’t have a fertility test. The priest didn’t say,
“do you Dazed and confused, take this women to be your lawfully wedded wife, but before you answer… is she barren, because if so, you don’t have to”
People do not want to be gay they are gay. You WANT to be Christian. The choice is yours, you can give up Christianity if you wish. Gay people cannot give up being gay. And it is for this reason why Gay rights will always trump Religious rights.
So you are not gay, why does gay marriage effect you…. it doesn’t change your marriage. It doesn’t change the money in your pocket. It doesn’t change the value of your house.
You have the right to argue, but you are like an empty drum, you are on the wrong side of history and i for one are glad to see that your arguments will soon crumble, like the walls of Jericho.
I gave up Christianity a long time ago…because of people like this.
What does having a child got to do with this? Are you saying you need to have had a child before you can get married? Plenty of man/woman couples do not have children and don’t want children. Enough baby mamas out there already that aren’t married too…
if 2 men /women marry? they cant make/produce/reproduce/create a child, can they? f**k what the bible says. common sense tells me, we were created in a world to find a companion and reproduce (make children) GAYS can adopt, they cant reproduce naturally? SO if it cant be done naturally … it should not be allowed.
Agreed! No more glasses.
“If it can’t be done naturally, it should not be allowed”
People in a loving home need to adopt all the children the worthless hetero parents didn’t want.
if you had read the article you would understand point is you dimwit that they can get married somewhere else but when they return to their home it won’t be recognized so that they can’t buy property together or have rights over their partners health and so much more. Why does it matter to you or to straight couples if gay marriage is legalized how does it affect you or your personal life that you are so strongly opposed to it… it’s 2018, there is more point to our existence than reproduction (as wel as there being many people who are straight who can’t reproduce… should god hate them should they not be allowed to marry?) this should not be your main argument for why they can’t get married. Keep your offensive opinions to your self. God would be disgraced with you hatefulness, learn to love a little and maybe you’ll become a worthy human being.
B.s. Cayman has not made homosexuality illegal, so they can live together like all the other LGBs in Cayman. And they can make legal documentation that each have power of attorney over the other and their child. They can make a will and testament leaving all their belongings and possessions to the other and the child(ren)…all this without the, embarassement, fuss and flurry of fighting for the government to change the Laws of the land….what if the criminals were to start petitioning to have their Human Rights recognized due to discrimination? Madness right?!?! Well so is this…. foolishness, just because she is Caymanian, gay and a Lawyer!!!!!
CNS: Part of the problem in this and other comments is a lack of understanding of what human rights are. The arguments go something like this: ‘I want to be a burglar and it’s my human right to be a burglar, so I want the law to change so I can be a burglar, just like the gays and lesbians want to change the law to suit them.’ So, to the person who wrote this comment and other who think like this, please take the time to read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Then, try to understand this: Crimes have victims and it is society’s responsibility to protect those victims through laws. Paedophiles have victims, animal abusers have victims, burglars have victims, which is why the law will not change to accommodate them. There are no victims in a love story with a happy ending.
Except they cannot expect to live together – because whilst homosexuality is not illegal, it is illegal for an expatriate to live here unless employed on a work permit or the dependent of a work permit holder or a Caymanian spouse. And Cayman wont recognise the marriage of a Caymanian to a same sex spouse (although bizarrely it will allow the residence of a dependent expatriate gay partner with another expatriate). Ms Bodden may be employed at the moment and entitled to residence on her permit, but how would you like it if your spouse or partner was liable to be removed from the country at any point because they lost their job or wanted to stop working to look after the child? Seem like foolishness now? And that’s dealing with the “practicality” point of your post – passing over the fact whether its morally right to have entirely different rights granted to two different Caymanians based simply on their sexual orientation.
Holy sh1t! The bible thumpers are out in full force as per usual.
Kick some ass, ladies. You have more support locally than you know.
Can’t wait for Cayman’s first Pride Parade. I’ll be there in my full heterosexual glory standing by my LGBT countrymen.
And this heterosexual expat will be there with you, supporting you supporting your own people.
Discrimination has existed from time immemorial, but that doesn’t make it right. Throughout the ages some people have been denied their freedom (slavery), the right to vote (adult suffrage), or because of the pigmentation in their skin they were told with whom as well as where they could live (Civil Rights), and in the most extreme cases (Apartheid) it was enacted into law and vigorously enforced. In every case, those discriminating would cite their culture and heritage, as well as Book and Verse from some Sacred Volume to justify their actions. Of course, they could also point to the Laws, which they themselves had written, as being on their side. However, in every case those accepted “norms” had to give way to an idea whose time had come.
I am one man married to one woman, thus meeting the current legal definition of marriage in Cayman, but two people of the same sex getting married would have about as much effect on my marriage as their choice of food for lunch would have on my gastrointestinal tract later today. I dare say the same applies to every other married couple in Cayman, but there are many who will claim that while it does not devalue their own marriage, they still feel compelled to defend their “culture” or quote from the Good Book on the sanctity of marriage to justify why they have to stand up and deny others this right.
I don’t know Chantelle and Vicky, and I have nothing to offer them other than love and support. However, I do have one vote in the General Elections, and I cannot with good conscience assign it to anyone who would deny them the right to be married. It is with some degree of contempt that I would view any politician who sits on the fence trying to appease everyone with an offer of civil unions as an alternative, under the guise that it was being forced upon them anyway. Perhaps I am a lone voice crying in the wilderness, but I am willing to stand up and state my name clearly in support of their cause for as long as I still have breath in my body.
PS. I also profess adherence to the Christian Faith
What a wonderful comment. As a gay person, I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Sir, you just won the internet with… “but two people of the same sex getting married would have about as much effect on my marriage as their choice of food for lunch would have on my gastrointestinal tract later today.”
Spot on, friend. Spot on.
I am a heterosexual married male Caymanian and I support these brave ladies for the exact same reasons set out by John and yes I feel just as strongly about the issue as he does. I have immense respect for these ladies and I too wish them all the best.
Discrimination of any form is UNGODLY and unacceptable!
Very well said John.
Love the Caymanians living overseas…hopefully there will be additional attacks on the corrupt practices…employment and work permits next please ..the war is on
Congrats to my best friends and neighbors on having a child and plans to get getting married , love you guys and cant wait to get together again ,hope I can get back in time for the wedding . Stay strong ladies , I for sure have your backs . All the best Bert.
Remember when they changed the law to make it illegal to own slaves. Owning slaves was considered a god given right before that. (at least to the slave owners) And yes most of the Slave owners were “Christian.”
Bring back the good ole days!
I appreciate this comment a lot. The LGBT movement will be another that future generations will look back on and say- “what were they thinking, not allowing these marriages”.
I LOVE how humanity has evolved and many old ‘traditions’ or norms have been updated and changed. Slavery, woman voting, non-whites being restricted in their movement and participation. I sleep well knowing that when important societal progress is made, it hasn’t been reversed. There is some resistance by the luddites of society but they don’t prevail.
Congratulations Chantelle and Vickie- your contribution to the improvement of rights for LGBTQ will form part of your legacy.
Slavery existed long before Christianity
SO DID THE GAYS
Yes, we know. Lucifer was gay. See what happened to him?
God gave him the boot OUT of heaven.
Oh my God, who gives a shit. We have worse issues to deal with in Cayman.
…And all you so-called Christians, please climb back under your rocks, because some of you are the most hateful people to ever walk this earth. If you’re so quick to quote your Bible, PLEASE QUOTE ALL OF IT, not just the parts that suit your pathetic outlook. You are the most judgemental people in the world, doesn’t your Bible say that judgement is reserved for God? Who the hell are you to judge anyone????
I agree with you completely people pick and choose what they want out of the Bible, Heck let the people be happy with who they are!! Cayman has 500 more important bigger fish to fry then this.
Exactly, like the brazen eating of shellfish, for which they will all surely burn in eternal damnation
Good girls for standing up and good luck in both your futures.
It’s a shame that we Caymanians are unwilling to change just becuase some book tells us. Sh..t, I’m pretty sure there were other religions prior to this silly book that says we came from only 2 people and the mother was a virgin when she had previously had kids.. Man unna gullible for sure.
I’m off to pray to my 10 gods, much more fun to sacrifice a goat…
All the best ladies (if betting were allowed in Cayman, I would put a lot of money on you winning).
Also, for all you “Christians” quoting the few ambiguous verses in the Bible, I have news for you.
I am not religious, but a very good friend of mine is an Ivy League University graduate, with a degree in Christian Theology (not some self-taught quack trying to make quick money). And guess what? His interpretation of the very same Bible, not only allows him, but encourages him to perform same sex marriages, as an ordained Minister.
I’d love to see where he came up with this interpretation!!!! He must be the only one in the world to come up with that.
No..there are pastors in Christian churches on other “Christian” countries who marry gay people…if you look out of your cave every now and again you would see them and find out about them rather than (same as most on here) deny things without bothering to check facts.
your friend is a crack pot and so are you for believing such nonsense! But you did give me a good laugh because you actually believe.
and you gave me a good laugh because you believe in the bible
Bible.
I can wait for the day when the LGBT movement and Islam collide! I guarantee they never ever push these issues where muslims are the majority. Christians are such pushovers, they cant be following Jesus that went into the temple and ran out the gamblers. They must be following some little fairy tale their pastors told them about! Just a few scriptures below from the mouth of Jesus himself, because all this togetherness nonsense is not Christian according to him.
LUKE 12-51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division
LUKE 12-52
From now on, five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three
MATTHEW 10-34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword
ISAIAH 5-20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
umm didn’t Jesus mention say something about “loving thy neighbour” Mark 12:31
Are you saying that Jesus didn’t approve of homosexuals? if so can i have the quote please?
I could also be wrong but isn’t the book of Isaiah in the old testament and therefore by it’s very definition not the words of jesus. Look i could be wrong, i’m a atheist after all…
Bro you are reaching too hard – Matthew and Luke where two disciples of Jesus. They are new testament books, which is why I quoted those first because for some reason people think Jesus taught something different from the prophets before him.
LUKE 4:17 (Just FYI Luke is a new testament book)
and was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it is written.
When Jesus went t preach he was given the book Isaiah to show the people. You know nothing but New Age Cristian Drivel.
So can i assume from your answer that you cannot find anywhere Jesus saying words to the effect of:
“Blessed are the peace makers, apart from those who lie with people of the same sex”
“Love thy Neighbour, but if he is a gay, you don’t have to”
It would appear to me that you get all hot under the collar about homosexuals but actually when the son of god came to earth the talked about all sorts of things apart from the Gays…. maybe because it wasn’t important to him or and just maybe, he thought it might be a bit ironic if he criticized two men living with each other when he spent all of this time with 13 blokes and he wasn’t married.
He hung out with 12 blokes my dear. Unless, Mary Magdalene was trans. Oh sh*t…here we go again…
I she wasn’t a man, but she was a prostitute wasn’t she? I suppose that’s ok though
I tried loving my neighbour once, as commanded by the big fella, now I have a restraining order against me. Go figure.
BERT 16:3. And blessed are those that can do tricks with fidget spinners for their cows shall bear more calves.
Begging of you CNS; bring back the LOL/ha ha button!
Yes please…make CNS great again
You numpty…I have travelled in many so called “Islam” nations and you have to see what goes on to believe it…rent boys on the streets of one Asian capital being picked up by the wealthy in their bullet proof SUV’s, arab men openly discussing buggering what I can only hope are “legal” teeenage boys as sex before marriage is not allowed….they love it as much as you do. Just they are not ashamed to admit it. Now go quote “forgive those that trespass against us” and Love thy neighbour which you so conveniently forget…and you forget the secual assaults that go on here including against animals…bound to be committed by some uptight twat like you.
Dang fool…. there’s a difference between homosexuality and same-sex unions, which I guess you seen both performed on the street sides of an Islamic country, right??
I am of Christian faith, born to a man and woman, straight mother of 4, who is a Caymanian that went to church, knows a little bit of the Holy Bible (KJV, none of the modern day rewritten junk), but has yet to find where Jesus did not speak to Mary Magdalene, telling her He forgave her of her sins and she was to go about her life and sin no more…btw, she did change her lifestyle and choose to follow Him, Jesus Christ. Loving thy neighbours, has nothing to do with changing the Law of a land to suit my lifestyle…what if I wanted to bring a change about nudity to Cayman? Would you support me just as good with my partner/spouse and I wanting to go everywhere and anywhere nake or topless or bottomless? I truly don’t believe so, because you would be offended by my wrinkly butt swaying and my sagging breast on display as you try to drive down the street or eat a meal at the restaurant or have me squeeze pass you while you, your spouse and your child(ren) watch a movie… Perhaps, not right? But this would be discrimination against my right to be a nudist, as my lifestyle, would it not?!?! And I am your neighbour, too!!
Matthew 27:5 – …[Judas] went away and hanged himself.
Luke 10:37 – …go and do ye likewise.
I guess suicide is biblically sound. But then again, that’s what happens when you pull scriptures out of context.
I wonder what doctrines we could formulate out of this next verse when pulled out of context:
“There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.” Ezekiel 23:20 NIV
Stay woke, folks.
Why can’t they get married in the UK? They could have their marriage recognized in the UK without issue.
Of course this would mean that the UK partner wouldnt not benefit from the status obtained from being married to a Caymanian (not needing work permit etc) – is that the real issue here?
If you could read you would know the answer
As a Caymanian who is in a same-sex marriage with another Caymanian, if we chose to move back home, as is our human and birthright, our marriage would not be recognised. This would then have severe implicarions our human rights, including but not limited to things such as those relating to our medical rights, our child(rens) rights and other legalities.
They could get married wherever they want so long as that country recognises same-sex marriages. However, that is not the point.
The fact that as LGBT+ Caymanians many of us are denied our right to family life is fundamentally AGAINST OUR HUMAN RIGHTS! Point blank period.
Join the fight with these wonderful ladies. Make it a class action, get the UK and EU attention..
I suggest you read the article. Maybe it’s just me, but that is nomally where I start to comprehend the issue. Definitely before I would comment! Just a thought.
The issue here are the ‘rights’ that you take for granted. I am a gay Caymanian married to my Caymanian partner legally in another country. Lets start with medical decisions: I was once in the ICU and only family are allowed. Next, property: if something happens to me, my property does not automatically transfer to my spouse. Now a will could fix this but then my spouse would have to pay stamp duty. Now if we had children, imagine the legal issues. This is all about rights.
For all the haters/blind followers, how does my marital status affect you?
I believe marriage is Gods design- between and man and a woman. Is it just me, or is it selfish that they believe that they can decide they want to move to her “homeland” and take it upon herself to change all law. I get that they want the same treatment- but, cayman is the same place where you can’t drink past 12am on Saturday, dance on Sunday, the day of rest is still observed.
They are asking a whole country to give up one of the values it was built upon, and that is selfish.
You mean to say two flats have reproduced? Is that a miracle?
but why do you believe that? Do you think there was no marriage before Jesus? or no marriage before Abraham. What about marriages between man and women (i.e. more than one), that was permissible in old testament times. The simple fact is that marriage has nothing to do with Christianity it in it’s basic terms is a contractual relationship between one person and another. It existed long before the bible and exists in non christian countries.
While the Cayman Islands, is a Christian country, we don’t stone people for working on a Sunday. We allow people to eat meet on a Friday and don’t follow the book of Leviticus to the T.
Two women getting married in Cayman won’t mean that the Island sinks beneath the waves. It will just mean that two women got married.
the same concerns that some Christians have over gay marriage were espoused during the anti miscegenation trial sin American in the 1960s. At the end of the day, the world did not end then, it will not end now.
maybe you should learn to love diversity and celebrate love?
Remember Soddam? Even the people that had more than one wife couldn’t handle that.. 😀
It’s selfish that a group of people decided that other were “less than” because of their own personal biases. Groups have been “less than” for having vaginas, having “too much melanin”, being born in specific areas of the world, being born in specific social classes, and so on and so forth. Selfish are those who have privilege and who use to disenfranchise and disempower others. That is selfish.
Ok. I want to drink and dance on Sunday. It’s my human right to. I’m starting a movement to have that law abolished.
Also, my cousin (we are all Caymanian) wants to identify as a woman. So, I’m going to change that law as well so that he can legally change his sex.
Further, I’m going to make it a law that employers can’t ask sexist questions any more and not discriminate based on nationality, sexual orientation, sex, etc.
I want my country to fit MY needs, to Hell what our founding fathers based this country on.
If they want to take on a fight- I’d have more respect for them if it wasn’t a selfish agenda and it was for all human rights for the LGBT community.
I don’t give a crap people want to marry their pet dog- but, revise the law for one situation and you will be faced with a landslide.
Also, food for thought- they don’t have to get married to come to cayman- her fiancée can find a job and get a work permit. I know many heterosexual couples that do this.
We had founding fathers? I thought we still belong to England.
England is just a country. It didn’t settle Cayman, people did. They founded the settlement, and lived very hard lives for 300 years. More recently, a new set of founding fathers created our modern economy. So yes, we did and we do.
The fact that you seem to think that allowing people to change their sex, play music and dance on a Sunday, and God forbid, prevent employers from being sexist or discriminating based on nationality or sexual orientation are somehow shocking or equivalent to letting people marry their pets rather demonstrates the point.
All those movements you propose are what should happen. Return to your cave and I will respect your right to do that. I will not respect you denying other people their rights.
“to Hell what our founding fathers based this country on”
Slavery.
The Bible teaches that the Mark of Cain was made to distinguish the descendants of Cain, and that they should not be treated as equals to others. The Christian founders of many countries in the New World recognized the Mark of Cain as the dark skin of African descendants.
Once slavery was abolished, it was one thing and then another which people have been demanding as their “rights”.
Human rights are for HUMANS and because of the consistent dehumanization of the LGBT+ community supposed “good Christian people” forget that we are talking about fellow HUMAN BEINGS. Case in point your comparison between two consenting adults marrying and someone wishing to marry their “pet dog”. That is dehumanizing and that’s all YOUR doing. No one is asking for special treatment, no one is asking for anything to meet “their needs”- all they are asking for is the same rights that everyone else has. The thing is that homophobia is last form of “acceptable discrimination”. People proclaim their homophobia with pride- try to claim your racism and see what happens to you. Even your sexism, clearly on display with your seeming dismay about not being able to ask sexist questions (oh the good old days, am I right?), would get more of response than homophobic remarks. And to reiterate the point below: the “founding fathers” thought that Africans and women were property that’s what the country was also based on.
I agree, comparing 2 consenting adults marrying to someone wanting to marry their dog is ridiculous BUT…. the ladies in question do have the same rights as everyone else. The right to follow the law which states marriage is between a man and a woman. A woman wanting permission to marry another woman or a man wanting to marry another man is actually asking for special treatment/meeting their needs when current it is the law saying it is illegal. For it to not be thought of as special treatment.. get the law changed. Crying discrimination here and being a online SJW isn’t going to get that done. Personally I really couldn’t care less who wants to marry who. At the end of the day it’s not going to pay my bills, put gas in my car or make me lose sleep at night. The bible says it’s wrong etc, but the bible also says “judge not lest ye be judged yourself”. Two men or two women wanting to marry each other don’t have to answer to me or anyone else in the community for that matter, they answer to God in the afterlife.
If you’re trying to make a point against this you haven’t done a very good job, because it is indeed your right to petition for changes to all of the laws you mentioned if you so choose. In fact, those all sound like pretty good ideas!
Just because you believe something does not make it Gods law. And it sure as hell does not mean I have to follow it to make you happy. Believe what you will and follow your own way and be glad your God does not make you follow the ways of others.
There are plenty of homosexual Caymanians. What makes you think this is coming from somewhere else. Your Xenophobia and Homophobia are a clear case for all Caymanians statutorily having a requisite state subsidised year abroad (and NOT in the southern United States) to learn about actual history, scientific facts and the humanities. Your ignorance of reality will come to an end soon enough. Nothing can stop change.
Third world versus the modern world. Caymanians grew up in the third world and don’t want to change. Its hard work for some people to learn new things and impossible for many of them to learn anything new. You are forcing them to deal with something that makes them uncomfortable and asking them to just do it for something other than just themselves is like asking a stone to believe it is a tree. Not going to happen. This new thing will have to be forced on them. There will be crying and nashing of teeth and all manner of hatred, name calling, mass confusion. But it will be done. People that live in the past always end up left behind. Thank you for bringing the rest of us farther forward then we could get by ourselves. You are the heroes the future Caymanians will remember.
How do you feel about the election of Trump and the vote for Brexit, I wonder?
foh
I voted for Trump and am happy with what he has done for America. Brexit is not something I think I am even remotely qualified to have a opinion that I would want to force on anyone.
Heroes Day Nominations, and failure to give them a medal will also be discrimination!!
Third world? Seriously? Didn’t realize you had to be third world to have Christian values.
What?
More like crown jewel against the twisted world
For those of you that want to go back to the days when whites and blacks had separate drinking fountains, could not marry, women could not vote, slavery was legal and black people were sold like cattle please sit down, for the rest of you who want to live in a progressive, fair, equal, first world society that treats each human being with the same dignity, respect, and equality please stand up and support these two women whose only crime is the fact that they love each other. All of you politicians that only represent your own infantile, prejudice, backward views you will also be remembered come election day. Time for all of you to grow the hell up.