Independents want same-sex union ballot
(CNS): All of the independent MLAs sitting on the opposition benches have signed and supported a private members motion moved by Anthony Eden calling on government to hold a referendum on the recognition of same-sex unions in local law before the 2017 General Election. None of the five members are in support of lawful gay unions and are hoping Cayman would vote ‘No’. The call comes not because government has any plans to introduce any lawful union for gay couples but because the immigration tribunal established the legal requirement to recognize same-sex dependents for the purposes of work permits.
The PPM government has made no announcements about any intention to introduce gay marriage, or any type of lawful union or regime between same-sex couples that would protect the rights of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender community (LGBT) – not least because there are few members of the ‘Progressive’ government that are, in fact, progressive on this issue.
Wayne Panton remains the only minister who has offered his full support for the LGBT community in the face of the extremely controversial attacks by Eden, in particular, on that community and has recognised the need to move towards such rights. Premier Alden McLaughlin, meanwhile, falling well short of offering his support to gay unions, has at least called for tolerance from his political colleagues and an end to discriminatory language.
But the independent members have pointed to comments made last year by McLaughlin that triggered Eden’s resignation from the government benches and the party of which he was a founding member.
McLaughlin, aware of the requirements of the law and the constitution, had indicated that the Cayman government would need to “explore” the possibility of adjusting the immigration framework in order to facilitate dependents of same-sex couples coming to work in Cayman.
This was before the IAT made its findings in a case relating to the application of a lawyer at Maples and Calder to add his legal male spouse, another attorney, to his work permit – that the law already provided for legally married gay partners to be dependents.
The Independent MLAs have suggested that even this small step in the journey to eliminate the massive discrimination faced by members of the LGBT community is too much for Cayman. The motion states that, despite the requirements in the law and the Bill of Rights, there has been “no mandate to the political directorate to alter the status quo” and the “legal recognition of same-sex marriages and unions does not accord with Christian values and principles” in the Marriage Law (2010 Revision) or the Constitution – neither of which, however, have been changed by the findings of the IAT.
Nevertheless, grasping what they believe is the continued homophobic, conservative religious sentiment and general discrimination not just against the idea of same-sex unions but the entire concept of LGBT people being allowed to be who they are, the independent MLAs are confident that Cayman would not support the recognition of gay marriage or anything that looks like it.
In June Bermuda rejected same-sex marriage in a non-binding referendum. While those that voted were roundly against it, the low turnout meant the result was invalid.
With an estimated current population of over 60,000 people in Cayman but just 18,457 on the electoral roll, it is very possible that a referendum would deliver a similar result here, despite the growing acceptance of gay rights among younger members of the community and residents who are originally from elsewhere or locals who have lived in countries with same-sex partner legislation.
The PPM government is unlikely to accept the motion to hold a referendum in the nine months before election day. But the premier will need to hold the three-line whip as the discriminatory beliefs held by the mover and supporter of the motion are not confined to the opposition benches.
Although they did not sign the document, the UDP/CDP members are likely to support it, since Opposition Leader McKeeva Bush has already publicly stated his desire to see a referendum on the matter, giving the independents eight votes versus an already tight situation of just nine members on the government benches.
Just one abstention there could give the casting vote to the Speaker, who, despite being a government member, is one of those opposed to gay rights.
Even if the government loses the motion, holding a national referendum before the general election would prove to be a costly logistical nightmare – though it would be easier and cheaper to hold such a poll alongside the General Election.
But even if there is no referendum, the motion provides the members with yet another opportunity to inflame a sensitive situation and stir up more discrimination and bigotry. Based on previous debates in the Legislative Assembly, the language used and the notions aired have been shocking and upsetting, not just for members of LGBT but others who can see no legitimate reason for discriminating against anyone, let alone for their gender or sexual orientation.
PMM No 6 of 2016-2017 – Referendum on same Sex Marriages,Partners
Category: 2017 General Elections, Elections, Politics
This person makes all real Christians cringe.
In 1787, in the US, after the Civil war, blacks were worth 3/5 of a white person. In the 1940s in Nazi Germany Jews were worth 0/5.
Was that okay? Is that okay? Are you good with that? Cloak yourselves in the Bible as much as you want, but you have no idea what Christianty is.
Friends (and others), when you think about it as an adult, the only thing that matters here will be the will of the voting Caymanian public. You might not like it but that’s the way the cookie crumbles, so either accept it or go live somewhere where a majority of the population agrees with you. Unless you have a different definition of democracy, the will of the people must prevail. And all the huffing and puffing on your part will make no difference. If the will of the people offends you, well so be it.
So what you mean if say 40% of the people think different, their opinion can be ignored?
You think democracy is that the majority decides, but that is not democracy.
That is “the one with the loudest mouth” wins.
In a democracy we all live peaceful together and we choose a government to make sure majorities do not walkover minorities.
It seems what you want is something like an Islamic state, ruled by Mr. Edens interpretation of the bible.
YOW If it indeed was 40% of the voting public that was for gay marriage, but understand that it is not. the gay clamor is being propagated by A SMALL NUMBER OF people who na from here and whose values are totally different from that which we have grown up with generally. So, take ya meat outa werice Yow.
What values you do you mean specifically? All we want is peace. All Eden wants is to become the next ISIS right here in Cayman. Public floggings? Going after gays and atheist? All this needs to stop and it starts by ridding ourselves of ignorant bigots and seperating delusional ideologies from the power to legislate.
You have a Constitution and a Bill of Rights. That Constitution (which regulates how a referendum must be held) and Bill of Rights includes provisions that prohibit discrimination, including on the basis of sexual orientation. You are bound by all the provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights and related court decisions. This is not about ‘will’ of the majority. It is about whether to comply with those existing laws. Any referendum must be in compliance with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The question is not ‘whether’ to give rights to same sex couples, but rather ‘what form’ those rights should take. The question of ‘whether’ to recognise rights for same sex couples and whether there should be a legal framework to register their relationships has already been answered in the law and by the courts; the will of the ‘majority’ can do absolutely nothing to change those legal obligations. The only way to change those legal obligations is (1) to change your own Constitution and Bill of Rights AND (2) to no longer be bound by the European Convention on Human Rights. As a British Overseas Territory I struggle to see how that would be possible I am afraid, even in circumstances where 100% of Caymanians elegible to vote don’t want gays on the Islands, or although may peacefully tolerate their existence, do not want to respect them as equal citizens and afford them equal rights.
What we really need is a “ballot” on the goings on in the Immigration Department, not people who just want to live their lives without harassment and prejudice.
GET READY CAYMAN IT’S COMING.
Wow….I want you to see and know who I am…no hiding or fake name.
All of the blatant mockery of the CREATOR of all mankind including you the reader/s
You think because of your rebellion and nastiness that it will it go unpunished? No.
Warning: Get ready Grand Cayman for a SUDDEN major, deadly shaking that will hit Cayman – God sent me to tell you ENOUGH IS ENOUGH – The stench has come up befire His nostrils – you saw and felt a pinch of God’s wrath when He allowed the elements to shift in 2004 and turn our small Island that has no escape rout.
Now like Sodom you are saying “ye God….think you bad – you and your preachers and prophets stop us now…we will infest and infect this Island” and you GOD cant do a thing about it – us homosexuals and lesbians will run the Cayman Islands.
Today as a servant of the most high God I boldly prophecy once again as I did in 2001 in the Cayman Compass about what happened in 2004…many mocked and jeered until the day…then every remembered.
I encourage all mockers to repent and turn away from your wicked ways and mockery…for God is about to visit the land / Island AGAIN.
This time there will be no boasting about no deaths….not only will the graves burst open but many will be found mingled with those who were buried long ago.
God is angry and no man (creature he created) shall mock Him and get away with it. Cayman has open the flood gates for demonic infestation like never before. So many of our youth are already being destroyed.
NEWS EDITOR:
Save this prophetic word and ponder it – for it shall come to pass right before your eyes.
Iam a Native Caymanian born and bread – so mock me now.
Bishop Dr Juliette Fagan
Someone let me know where I can go Sunday to hear more of this!
Welcome to the internet bishop where religion comes to die.
Bishop I can’t tell which is more full of bs. Your post or the bible?
The most “high” God. TIL There is more than one god and they all get high.
Say wha? “Bishop Dr”?? Can we learn the name of the conferring academic institution? Thanks.
Dr Fagan how come God didn’t send you to warn us about the tragic event with Tamara Butler? According to her it was God who was talking to her. There we’re no deaths during 2004 hurricane because we got prepared. Why would he tell you about an event that ultimately led to no deaths? Why didn’t he tell you useful information that could save a life? Either one of you is lying.. or you both are just full of it.
You are a complete idiot. And I think you live in boddentown.
You have absolutely no connection with reality and are completely alone in your own world.
In a way I feel sorry for you. What happened. ?
lol … go sit down! Your not Bishop Fagan! 😉
Oh please … you sure your the bishop, or, are you merely trying to insult our Christian culture? 🙂
You can’t insult christian culture. If they feel insulted that is their own insecure faith talking them.
OMG SHUTTTTT UPPPPPPP already you backwards, ignorant idiot! Everyone is sick of you. Bye!
The messiah has come!
And I should know as I’ve followed a few.
1 Timothy 2:12 – I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man, she must be quiet.
In another words stfu if you believe in your bible.
Wow, please go spread your hatred and threats elsewhere. That’s what you thrive on, the spreading of fear to ensure your flock stay in line and do what you tell them to. In any other place it would be called bullying, for the simple reason that that is what it is. So I suggest you go and look in the mirror and ask yourself does the good Lord condone bullying or would he make you answer for that sin too?
What is a bishop dr. anyway?….shut upppppp already, please!
No offense, Mr. Bishop Dr., but you need to reevaluate your entire worldview. Gods didn’t make people, people made gods. You are welcome to live in a fantasy world and believe the voices in your head come from a real being but you must understand that there are many Caymanians who don’t think and live this way. We choose to live in reality as best we can. We don’t look backward to Bronze Age myths for our morality. We think and we look to our humanity in hopes of being fair to others and building a better society.
Sorry for the “Mr.”. No disrespect meant with that. Intended to type “Mrs.”
I do enjoy a bit of demonic infestation. But only at the weekends.
For PhD in ballots you’d think you would have learnt to spell.
You are a loony.
For everyone’s information, she is real, check her on youtube.
It is not her, but the followers are the ones that make me afraid.
Same as Eden. You can’t blame him for what he does. It is the people that support him, they are the real thing to worry about.
Mr. Eden, please stop this hatred towards other humans. It is so not Christian.
Usually the people screaming the most about alternative lifestyles are the very people,leading the most deviant and perverse lives. It does not mean they are all gay but they do engage themselves in rather ungodly behaviors and you know how prevalent extramarital relationships are within this culture.
You are so wrong. Just think for a second what your opinion is based on and who gave you that information.
Then go fact check yourself.
Thank you.
Imagine how much better the world be if religious people were content to babble at their gods, perform their weird rituals, and stay out of other people’s lives. Seriously, the Taliban, ISIS, the Vatican, the Cayman Islands Ministers Association, etc. Just do you and leave the rest of us alone. Hard to hate on them as individuals though. Childhood indoctrination is a tough cage to escape.
That last sentence is the key to religion. I child will believe anything an adult says.
2:00 Even some children know religion is all BS.
Can you even point to the Cayman Islands on a map, friend?
What does a map have to do with a filthy bible?
What I find particularly distasteful about this is the ‘bandwagon’ approach adopted by the Independents, other than Tony Eden. It must be said that faced with little political ammunition with which to attack the Government, the Gang of Four is desperately seeking to cling on to an emotive issue hoping for some sort of political gain. Listen up guys. We not so fool-fool. We can see right through your silly political games. Why are you asking us to vote on something that is already enshrined in our Constitution? Cha!
I will not vote in the referendum, and I will never again vote for any MLA who votes in favour of having a referendum.
I think we should have a referendum on that first though
A waste of time and energy that most of our MLA’s focus on…all to try and garner extra votes! Also while some of those making the most noise have close family members who live abroad in large part to escape the bigotry and discrimination.
Try focusing on the myriad of real problems we have!
Boyyyyu plenty people write on this post. Scr..w this. What about the rcips catching dem criminals over the weekend.. congrats
Now.back to this, time change get over it Eden and dem idiots, just because you want to religious donkeys to vote for you. The time of the churches in our politics are done!!!!!!!
Back to to my my gay and lesbian friends….
Yea but … I notice they focusing alot on immigration. I bet you the police has more rotten apples than any government department ! Who is policing them?
Do NOT waste my money on this! Spend it on education. A decision was made. Move along now.
Mr eden, who the f..k do you think you are to tell me who I should love?
Indeed. Mr Eden, if you don’t like it, don’t do it. Relax.
What is next on your agenda mr eden ? Black people have to be treated as slaves again, like your christian ancestors did ?
Got a problem with that?
The bible doesn’t think its wrong.
Wrong again. The old testament writes about it and that is nothing more than an historical how people lived.
Then jesus was born and the new testament was written. That is what christianity is based on.
So we should ignore the Old Testament? You do realize that includes Leviticus, or are you picking and choosing what words of God you are adhering to?
Oh like pauls letter to philemon or
Mathew 18:25
Mark 14:66
Luke 12:45-48
Ephisians 6:5-9
So why does a bible contain the old testament?
Why do you sing psalms?
Why do you quote adam and eve all the time.
You people are sick with your hypocritical bigotry.
Christianity is based on interpretation of the best piece of fiction ever written. The con job of eternity.
Bibles don’t think. People do. Although in your case I have my doubts.
What’s so great about marriage that it should be exclusive to heterosexuals?
To those GLBT that wish they had the right to marry I say let them and “be careful what you wish for!”.
So much nonsense and confusion! Look, I’m only going to explain this to unna once. I have to be mean and ignorant on the issue of gay marriage because the invisible, silent, nonexistent god I believe in requires me to. Got it? Of course I would love to live in the 21st century and be a decent human being like you fans of fairness and human rights but I can’t. How could I when an ancient book of absurdities says I can’t? You can laugh and deny divine truth all you want now but one day when I die and nothing happens I’ll say I’m sorry for squandering my brief existence on idiotic, mean-spirited misadventures like fighting gay marriage. God is love!
#Blessed
I’m not religious and I still don’t like the idea of gay marriage.
Then
1) Don’t marry someone you don’t want to marry; and
2) Mind your own business
You can’t tell me what to do.
I’m not gay and I still don’t like you.
I’m not religious and I don’t like the idea of gay marriage but I mind my own business because who am I or anyone else to tell anyone who they should or should not love unlike most christians who use the filthy bible that condones slavery, rape and murder as a moral compass while spreading their bigotry by hate with their ignorant perspective of life. Keep the book in the fiction aisle where it belongs and pick up a geography or sceince textbook and learn something instead of trying to force your ideology on to others that obviously know that the bible is full of BS.
if the caymanian people hold a referendum and vote by a large margin not to support same sex marriage. Should anyone have the right to force this on cayman?
There is no human right or religious obligation for the Cayman Islands to adopt same-sex marriage, but THERE ALREADY IS a civil obligation (and case law) under ECHR to recognize and protect same-sex unions. The Cayman Islands is in breach. Do we want the custodians of our public funds to keep us in breach (to make an extreme right religious point) and keep paying out millions in settlements or do we want more commercially responsible leadership? That’s the decision we need to make. It’s potentially a very expensive lesson in how the world works.
Here is my personal advice to the MLAs who continue to stir up hate and bigotry – remember that ‘ time is longer than rope’. Maybe when your GAY child, grand child or great grand child announces he or she is GAY and would like to receive the same rights as others when it comes to human rights and equality, you may very well have wished that you had educated yourselves on the matter and in the process learned the skill of EMPATHY. Here’ s your homework, sense you have so much time on your hands, watch the movie ‘Prayers for Bobby”. Or even better yet ‘Burning Blue”. These two movies may help rid you of your bigotry and hatred that you obviously possess in your hearts since you do not seem to understand that homosexuality is NOT A CHOICE!!!!! It is our orientation and nothing can be done to change that. I know that God made me this way and it has caused me much pain, tears, alienation, envy, anger, belittlement, suicidal thoughts, aggression, stress, etc., until I ACCEPTED ME for me and understood in my heart that I am worthy of LOVE, RESPECT, KINDNESS, TOLERANCE and ACCETANCE and that nothing you say or do will hurt me more than me not being true to myself. “The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are.” That’s what I try to do each and everyday that God allows me to remain on this earth.
Remember judge not that you may not be judged!!!!!!!!
Some people really do become homosexual by choice.
And your point is?
There are still many who are because they are born that way.
@4:31 rhetorical question I guess but are you really that stupid?
@4:31 – do you remember when choose your sexuality?
All people choose to be religiously bigoted.
How many of these people do you know personally ?
As an atheist I have more religious friends than atheists. They all tend to have their own interpretation of human morality and own perspective of life which is based off their own faith in intelligent deisgn whether it be a wizard in the sky or higher dimensial beings. It’s one thing to believe in your intelligent design theism approach and another to be ignorant, self righteous fool who thinks people will obey laws based off that wild assumption. Only rules we are bound to and by are the laws of physics, not some goat herder’s notes. If religious doctrines have taught us anything it’s that it’s all BS.
so calling for a referendum is hate and bigotry. We have something that is a significant change for the cayman people shouldn’t the politicians give that decision to the people? I mean you have already called them hateful and bigotry let the people then force them to deal with it or are you afraid that the Cayman people might say no.
So, if I choose to be a Bigot I have no right, but if I choose to be LGBT I have all the rights.
That will never be the way I see it no matter what. I agree that a Referendum on this matter would be very costly but at least do a Vote alongside the next election and give everyone a chance to state their opinion on the matter. That way the matter could be put to rest once and for all.
I don’t know why this is so confusing. The matter HAS ALREADY BEEN DECIDED. The laws of the Cayman Islands are required to provide equal protection to all citizens, regardless of sexual orientation.
The whole premise of marriage is horrendous and outdated in any event. Why anyone would do it in the first place is beyond me. Do away with marriage entirely I say, what could be more equal than that?
This is just smoke and mirrors. It would appear the real purpose is to being down PPM by forcing a vote.
I guess the same people choose to be a religious bigot?
With all the problems facing this country this is what our government is focusing on? Why are you so obsessed with the LGBT community? Let it go and stop obsessing over the sexual activities of others.
I’m so over this, I am so over the present Government, I am so over the ‘churches’ and those that call themselves ‘Christians’……I have not heard ONE comment from the Government or the Churches of this Island speak out about the continuous rape and sexual abuse against our children, for fuck’s sake….two horses were sexually assaulted and tortured, yet not a word.
Each and everyone of you are worthless and a disgrace to this Island, Christians and humanity in general.
This is not about the “present government” this is coming from the present opposition. BIG DIFFERENCE. So I say you should support the present government in their efforts to make our society more accepting.
Yeh, right! Cos CIG is so active on this question.
there are reasons some people exhibit the opinons that they do…
And if the established reasons are of faith then take this with a grain of salt, grow up.
What is interesting is many of the posters on this thread criticising the popular stance re gay marriage in Cayman are the same that will fervently defend the UK’s Brexit vote. A national referendum that was essentially a vote in support of racism and xenophobia.
(Spin it however you want folks, the majority of Brits that voted for Brexit did so for those reasons. Of course there is no way to “prove” this scientifically as there are no (publicly) self-professed racists in this politically-correct world in which we live.)
As I’ve said before, some countries aren’t very fond of gay marriage and other countries are quite racist.
Seems fair.
😉
– Whodatis
P.S. What’s that about the 21st century again? Seems much of the western world is hoping for a return of the “greatness” (Trump fever) of the early 1800’s.
Mixing it all up again in your racist tirade against the motherland…not connected in any way to the subject, and I believe most here would welcome the referendum but I suspect the MLA’s would not like the result. And you are right on point, you have no proof for your argument so why you keep banging on about it fails me. People kept talking that the world was flat until some brave soul stood up and said it wasn’t. And he had proof, the others did not.
And why you keep trying to compare a 65m people country to a 60,000 people Island of that same country is inane-completely different dynamics.
You can attack me until even after the cows come home buddy.
It is what it is.
I just wish you and your CNS friends would quit with the selective and hypocritical bullshit.
– Who
I didn’t attack you. Just pointed out facts. Apologies if that’s inconvenient for you.
Yes, quite the selective and hypocritical bullshit. That sort of approach should be the sole preserve of Who.
That is indeed interesting. Hadn’t considered it that way before.
Or, as you say.. there’s no way to prove so more than likely it’s complete bullshit again Whodatis…
Kindly right-click, copy, and then paste my reply to your colleague above.
– Who
W####r, there,said it!
Come on Now!!! Voting on other peoples happiness, how would you feel if other people got to vote on whether or not you can marry your husband or wife in your heterosexual marriage. Give me a break! Just be accepting and stop the hate. We don’t need anymore of this discrimination in this world. Start solving the real problems and educate yourself. You politicians disgust many people and need to stop being so hateful, because regardless of what you call what you are doing, you are being hateful!!!
Love conquers Hate
I hope it’s only Caymanians that can vote as well. Not expats that care noting about our people….
Precisely -we don’t care because we are excluded form having any say, as you clearly maintain. So why should we care? You make your own problems…
Many caymanians are paper as used be expats….
Still Caymanians none the less!
Less
Don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it you independents. (Or maybe you have tried it and did not like it?) in that case, pardon me.
People, please, regardless of what side of the fence you are sitting on, I feel it necessary to inject a little intelligence into this situation.
I happen to KNOW that there will be NO referendum. This is a done deal. The change in law will be announced soon and that is that.
The powers that be have already put this in motion from a very long time ago.
Now it remains to be seen whether the God of the Bible Thumpers is exactly who He says He is. If He is a figment of some deluded peoples’ minds, then there is nothing to worry about and it will be progressive business as usual.
If however, He is the the One who is from everlasting to everlasting and the One who “does not change”, the One who answers by fire, then I would say we have an interesting situation.
Every argument has at least two sides, but at the end of the day, Truth will prevail. Knock yourselves out people,beat each other over the heads with your arguments, hatred, agendas and spitefulness. The wait will soon be over.
Call for a referendum to boycott religion.
What? And defy peoples Sunday morning crutch of righteousness that allows them to go judging everyone and sin again by Sunday lunchtime so they can all be forgiven the following week? Brave person.
It is a shame these bigots cannot put as much effort into the woeful education system on this island.
It’s a shame they have to waste time because of your objectives
Typical Caymanian attitude can’t care less about education and your countries future but more about a book of non fiction
non fiction is factual buddy… which is educational. Please try to ensure your retorts make sense before firing back
4:49 so wizards, werewolves, zombies and vampires are factual?
More than half of Cayman is against this lifestyle? That means that the rest of Cayman gives us hope for the future of Human a Rights. Perhaps when the next generation is better educated and less influenced by restrictive religious beliefs, Cayman can join the modern world in acceptance of people who are simply different.
Our gay brothers and sisters in this generation should not have to wait that long.
put it on the ballot and lets move on into the 21 century.
Although the ECHR has previously decided that there is no Article 1 right to marry for same-sex unions, the Convention clearly imposes obligations on Member States to offer legal alternatives to such couples, either in the form of civil unions or registered partnerships and protection of their same-sex unions.
We ignore these civil obligations at our peril (with costs, damages and interest). Eden (and many other antiquated campaigners) are trying to conflate the legal validity of civil unions with the spiritual interpretation of “holy marriages” consecrated by the extreme right Churches of Cayman – which is not how this obligation applies.
You’re blind, can’t you see Cayman is not in Europe?
re: Territorial scope of European Convention on Human Rights
The table linked illustrates the extent to which the substantive provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights and its Protocols are ratified (and therefore in force) for territories under the control of the members of the Council of Europe:
For the Cayman Islands, the Extent of ECHR = “FULL”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_scope_of_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights
==> Any of the MLAs (with survival instincts) that signed or supported this private members motion are supporting a commercially negligent position, and should immediately recall their support, and admit they were misguided, or rethink their future in politics come May 2017. The ECHR deniers are not mentally equipped to serve our people – they are a liability burning through significant wads of OUR MONEY for the sake of votes, ego, and artifice. Learning as they fail, time, and time again. They’ve wasted MILLIONS on settlement payouts – funds that should have gone to social, mental, and education programs we badly needed ten years ago. ENOUGH! <==
Read your own link. Article 12 is not ratafied
You mistake Articles for Protocols. The Cayman Islands does not comply with many of the ECHR protocols. Those are not checks in the positive column!!
As a BOT, it’s subject to the ECHR, just as a number of other Caribbean Islands are via their links to the UK, France and Holland
You might as well call for a referendum to see if slavery should be introduced. The result would be irrelevant, Human Rights are Human Rights and they are not subject to the will of the majority, even in a democracy.
I am pro same sex marriage or I should say I really don’t care who someone choses as a partner (as long as they are both consenting adults), but I really don’t believe this is a Human Rights issue. A Human Right is something a person is inherently entitled to simply by being a human. So you are entitled to marry whoever you want (ie. this can’t be taken away from you and you are not thrown in jail for being married to the same gender) but this does not entitle one for everyone else (i.e the country) to recognize it as common law.
Just like you can practice any religion as long as it doesn’t breach any laws, your employer doesn’t breach any Human Rights issues because he makes you work on a Saturday despite you being SDA or a school doesn’t breach any Human Rights issues just because they are encompassing one religion in their curriculum but not others. They give you the option to practice your religion in any way you desire outside school/working hours………so nothing was taken away from you.
The Human Rights thing is a very slippery slope and I believe people use this term way too casually.
GOD MADE PEOPLE DIFFERENT … So if you have differences, in order for a democracy to work and everybody’s rights to be respected, how can you turn down people who want to marry the same sex? You attack their freedom they have every right to attack your freedom be it a religious one. And if you are truly a religious person and know your history of religious intolerance, you will naturally uphold democracy for all.
Bigger things to deal with than this. Kids are being molested, horses too. Shootings and beatings continue and this is what they choose to spend their time and energy upon.
Sooner these dinosaurs are replaced the better.
AMEN!!
Waste of time and money, that can be better spent on more pressing issues. This is just grandstanding for the election. Ultimately this will be decided by the Courts.
It has been decided by Courts. We just overlook that.
Exactly. It is literally “commercially negligent” for these MLAs to remain in office. They’d rather blow through millions in settlements for the sake of ego/re-election theater, than use our money to address social, mental, and education problems. How is this not theft?
Yes, lets have the referendum on the condition that the 5 MLA’s have to leave Cayman if they fail. I suspect Cayman would feel a Brexit type shock result, which would be great as it would then force the recognition of same sex unions. In any case, even if they won, the various international courts will soon be sanctioning Cayman for failing to protect the rights of certain communities. Cayman needs to get with the programme. And recognizing same sex unions does not mean we will all be forced to be gay.
Said it before and will say it again; we have serious matters to address in these islands….LGBT rights should not be one of them. They should have the same rights as everyone else. How else can we be fair, and how else are we to call ourselves Christian?
Too much hypocrisy in Cayman; we need new blood in the L.A and fast!
What happens if an LGBT couple seeks divorce while they are resident in the Cayman Islands? Obviously the provision can be made in to the law that the Islands recognize any and all legal marriages performed within other countries. The Government does not have to allow LGBT marriages to be conducted on-island, however, it would be sensible to make provisions in the law that any and all marriages that are considered legal within the country the marriage service was conducted is recognized as legal union within the Cayman Islands. There would also be no need to specify “gay or lesbian” marriages; simply that “any and all ceremonies of marriage legally conducted and registered within the respective country is accepted as legal union within the Cayman Islands.
You must be so proud of your Christian doctrine of love for ALL of your fellow men, (and women) but with exceptions. And oh so proud of your over paid, under exercised and low achieving politicians with their bigoted views and hypocritical lifestyles.
Shame a certain independent couldn’t keep his high morals when he side lined one catholic wife for another.
I hope the more enlightened and educated Caymanians vote against their inept and morally bankrupt politicians and vote for a more tolerant and inclusive society for all.
Wayne Panton should be the example that modern thinking and progressive Caymanians should aspire to, not the Neanderthal mindset of the backwards boys on the independent benches.
Wayne Panton knows who Wayne Panton is.
Sure, let’s vote. I doubt the answer will be what these guys hope it will be though.
Cayman has much bigger issues than recognizing same sex unions. They have to collectively get their heads out of their bonkeeees.
The priorities of the current government are messed up.
This is coming from the Opposition MLA’S not the Government.
My girlfriend and I could not get married in my family church because my pastor is spiritually and morally opposed to marrying couples that have children out of wedlock.
The gay marriage issue is NOT singled out in Caymanian culture, as it shares a frowned-upon reaction with many other circumstances. E.g. (i) A couple cohabiting before marriage and (ii) A couple not being a regular member of the church but seeking to be married therein.
The modern LGBT mafia must take the time to consider the peculiar issues and norms as it concerns each country and culture and quit with the “our way or the highway” attitude.
If I managed to respect the sensitivities of my elder and compassionate (Christian) life-long pastor for the aforementioned reasons, I damn sure expect others, newcomers or otherwise, to do the same.
*At this point I reiterate my regular suggestion of Civil Partnership agreements being a simple and effective alternative to fully address the issues at hand. In fact, in light of societal changes between now and when family and marriage laws came into effect and developed – I strongly urge the inclusion of CP arrangements for all “legally married” couples – as well as other relationships.
**The gay marriage and LGBT campaign has devolved into more of an anti-tradition / anti-Christian values group of bullies than anything else.
Lastly, I say all of this as an individual that is not overtly Christian or sensitive in that respect. However, I am a member of a culture and society for which certain values are important. I will defend the well-intentioned traditions of my country to the very end with little regard for who decides to be offended – especially when a perfectly workable (some may say superior) alternative is laid on the table.
– Whodatis
“If I managed to respect the sensitivities of my elder and compassionate (Christian) life-long pastor for the aforementioned reasons, I damn sure expect others, newcomers or otherwise, to do the same”
But you chose to go that church, and to respect your pastors wishes. Why should others who do not share your religion or your views be bound b your pastors beliefs? What if I told you that my church felt you should give up your children for adoption because they were born out of wedlock, and that I expect that you should respect his wishes? You and your pastor have as much right to impose your beliefs on others as they do on you. Passing lightly over the fact that there can be no serious comparison between which church you decide to get married in and LGBT individuals sexuality – unless you are another of those who believe sexual attraction is a choice?
Indeed, choice is clearly at the centre of the debate.
What the LGbT campaigners appear to be pushing on the world is an authoritarian protocol based of their perspective.
E.g. I sometimes like to go to the beach, drink a few Guinness’, watch my sexy, glistening wife frolic under the sun in her bikini and reminicse on the day in the passenger seat as she works the gears.
For those reasons I CHOOSE to not live in Saudi Arabia.
Sounds like you love your Pastor more than your woman. Ever thought that you might be, you know, a batty man?
Stay classy buddy.
– Who
I don’t see what is going to be achieved by holding a national referendum on the issue. From the article, it appears that the referendum will be a vote on whether to support legislation of recognizing same-sex unions in some (whether this be through marriage or civil partnership) in the Cayman Islands. That is an entirely separate issue from the one that has been dealt with by the IAT and so a majority vote of yes or no would hold no weight to overturn or criticize the judgment which IAT has delivered.
Furthermore, holding this referendum seems to be a political middle finger to those supporters (myself included) to those who think that same-sex unions should be given some form of legal recognition. If the Cayman Islands voted “No”, then you wasted government money on a point that was previously entrenched in the Cayman Islands. If the majority vote is “yes”, the likelihood of the government being prompt to accept the vote and producing legislation is unlikely which will be followed by political squabble which ultimately wastes the people’s time and again money.
Did I forget to mention that this is costing money? I can think of more things the money used to fund this referendum will be much more suited for. The referendum will just end with a shot in the foot as money is spent and wasted on a referendum which will not change anything no matter what vote occurs.
Also a referendum works poorly in a country with a small population like ours. I can imagine the first rule is that you must be Caymanian or have Caymanian status and be 18 years or older to participate which already eliminates about 60-70% of the actual population. This leaves about as an equal to or less than the number on the electoral register and I doubt any more than this would entertain such a vote.
Finally, the vote does not tackle the issue which many politicians wish to ignore. Why is their reluctance in a developed country to introduce recognition of same-sex union? The vote will only equate to a tally mark of those who are against gays in general and those who wish to hope that gays are given some form of recognition under law.
If they hold referendum, good for them and I will be voting to support yes but in the end it will mean nothing but I will always encourage people to vote for an issue they strongly feel about.
“It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury signifying nothing.”
Agree with you except for the part about being Caymanian or having Cayman Status. They are one and the same.
Anthony Eden 4 Premier
He lives in a time that is past. Welcome to the Age Of Enlightenment. Leave the Dark Ages.
Hmmmmm…….”welcome to the age of enlightenment”. Right.
I take it staying home and jamming out to some bob marley counts as a no?
Time to get comfortable, where’s the popcorn?
Democracy is alive and well in the Cayman Islands, we should all be happy we’re here experiencing an awesome system and not in North with Korea or Saudi Arabia. Bring it on
Yeah – awesome. less than a third of the population is allowed to vote, and a quarter of them cannot even be bothered registering. True democracy indeed.
And what percentage to the full population of the United States, including the 11 million illegal aliens, will vote in a referendum, or even the Presidential election, in November?
Or asked another way, how many non citizens will be allowed to vote in the USA or British general elections?
What was your point again anyway?
Irish and Commonwealth citizens resident in the UK can vote in UK general elections, so potentially many millions.
If you are over 18 years old and do not have the right to vote in the Cayman Islands then you probably have the right to vote else where. The voting rules in Cayman are very similar to other jurisdictions of similar size. If you disagreed with those rules why did you come here in the first place?
I agree it should be put to a referendum – what ever the outcome we should be bound by it. If same sex unions become recognized in Cayman we must ensure proper measures are put in place to support it – amend all the affected legislation, training for social workers, police and education in the schools. It isn’t enough to say we should recognize same sex unions, if we are to embrace them, we have a responsibility to create the infrastructure.
Personally, I would vote to recognize civil unions – which doesn’t require changing the definition of marriage. While I don’t necessarily support homosexuality, it exists and I respect any humans right to life their life as I have had the right to live mine.
Cayman already has an ECHR obligation to recognize, provide, and protect same-sex civil unions! It’s very sad that there are people elected for office that fundamentally deny that Cayman is a Territory of the UK and party to the convention by name! IT IS and WE ARE.
Come to think of it, if same-sex marriage is made into law, that will mean other laws on the books will have to change like our Children and Family laws, etc …
Question: Do you seriously think Cayman is ready for such a huge impact on its society??? We can well predict that more than half of our population is against this lifestyle!
Don’t matter if they’re against the homosexual lifestyle. Peoples sexual orientation is none of their or your god damn business. Grow up.