Chamber wants end to rollover
(CNS): The Chamber of Commerce president has revealed that a recent survey of its members showed that the government’s rollover policy is still extremely unpopular within the organisation. In his opening address at the Economic Forum Wednesday, Chris Kirkconnell said that 71% of those who took part do not like the term limit policy, despite the change from a seven- to a ten-year term. He said that several of the members gave negative comments that painted a picture of a disruptive policy offering no benefit to anyone.
Revealing a number of comments made during the survey, Kirkconnell said the Chamber wanted to “re-open the discussion on the term limit policy” to find out whether it is addressing “the needs of our community or hampering business growth”.
He said members wanted to find a new way for people to acquire citizenship and an option for people to choose not to pursue citizenship while allowing them to work and live in Cayman.
Members told the Chamber that they do not believe rollover works because it does not increase the number of qualified and available Caymanian workers but just forces companies to lose their trained and sometimes favoured employees, who are usually replaced by other new expatriates.
Small business owners who took part in the survey noted the particular problem rollover presents for them: when they are not in a position to cross-train or have multiple people doing one job, the policy is disruptive to the stability of their businesses.
Kirkconnell welcomed the government’s stewardship of the current robust economy in Cayman, the drop in unemployment and the control over public finances, but he raised a few concerns about the impact of growth on the environment, the problem of inflation, a serious shortage of affordable accommodation for workers or government’s failure to come up with a vision for an agreed overall strategy for the sustainable management of Cayman’s wider society and economy.
He warned of the potential for over-development and said Chamber members did not want to see Cayman become a high-rise concrete jungle. He said they were against the proposed “iconic tower” that government was in discussions with Dart about for Camana Bay.
However, during the last segment of the day when a panel discussed the future growth of Cayman and a possible increase in the population up to 100,000 people, Justin Howe from Dart pushed the idea again and spoke about making it the tallest building in the Caribbean. But, he said, the tower, which would likely be a hotel or a vertical resort, was still in the discussion phase and it was up to government when it would move beyond that.
Category: Business
The ignorant (many) versus the informed(not as many). And as usual no one will win and many will lose.
The roll over only helps the ignorant and those afraid of having to work with skilled and experienced workers. Then best way to do your job is to learn from the skilled and experienced workers. This is the way those skilled workers got their skill. Don’t listen to your parents tell you your not good enough. The roll over seriously effects any business on the island and makes it hard to keep good workers. Time to let it fade away.
So what you are essentially saying is the expat worker will come here and train a local and then leave by their own will. I can see why you would support a system that says you can stay as long as you want ensuring that a qualified Caymanian can not get the job you vacate when you have to leave. It is amazing when people come here from a place where they left because they could not have the opportunity to earn so much and have a better life, are happy to try to take that opportunity away from the locals here.
It is called “entitlement”.
– Who
Only the most mediocre who think their passport is more important than hard work than ability would want rollover to stay now unemployment is history.
Rollover is good because new employees are younger and healthier. They work faster.
The roll over policy is completely counter-productive. It doesn’t help a single Caymanian, it just forces the introduction of a new expat which drives up costs on everyone.
Many of the rules on work permits are counter-productive. Employers shouldn’t hold permits in the first place. The permit should be an agreement between the goverment and the expat, not the employer. An employment contract should be entirely separate. The way it is now, Caymanians will continue to suffer subdued wages because employers are able to use existing laws to threaten workers with their permit. I wonder if the Chamber will like this line of reasoning? Probably not.
USA – Trump (build the wall, shithole countries, Muslim ban, “White power”, etc.)
UK – Brexit, Farage, political chaos, xenophobia, Islamaphobia, omnipresent racism, “White power” energy, “Christian nation” defence and claims – yet mostly atheist, less than 10% population increase since 80’s, etc.
EU block – Neo-Nazis, Far-right parties + govts, Islamaphobia, Generation Identity, racism, xenophobia, anti-immigration, multiple racist, non-repentant mass shootings, etc.
Cayman – over 300% population increase since mid 80’s with calls for even more. Newly emigrated Americans, Brits, and Europeans label Caymanians xenophobes the moment they bring attention to the ever deteriorating set of circumstances of their native community.
What a wonderful world.
– Whodatis
your “300% population increase” narrative is wonderful until you add a little nuance into the mix
1 – This island’s population was tiny for hundreds of years, even in the 80s where were we? Just north of 15k people, but please continue comparing an increase on the scale of ours with Europe and North America which is completely farcical. Raw percentages might favour your argument but there is a reason you use percentages rather than actual concrete numbers. In reality
2 The 300% increase in population was something that our leaders at the time encouraged and purposefully initiated, work permits, starting up the financial industry and encouraging people to emigrate here. You don’t get to cry wolf with your BS acting as if one day expats just came out of nowhere and set up shop
WE INVITED THEM, we set up the systems for them to come here to supplement our ideas for the islands
3 – There are more jobs than Caymanians, that is just a fact what is your solution, start encouraging 8 child homes and resort to deploying suit-wearing babies into offices and hammer wielding toddlers into construction sites? Please I would love for any of you whiners to get up and advocate for the destruction of the work permit system and the expulsion of all non-citizens, these islands would be ruins overnight
4 – As usual what you are doing is pointing overseas and saying, “they are horrible xenophobic and racist so who cares if we are too” Denying the truth about what goes on in Cayman is ridiculous. There are plenty of Caymanians who do hate expats and do go out of their way to vilify them in the same ways as countries and politicians overseas
‘Total Moratorium on all work permits” = “Total and complete shutdown of Muslim immigrants until we can figure out what the hell is going on”
5 – The people responsible for the sorry state our islands are in are not outsiders who come here for a couple years to get paid and leave, it is the Caymanians skimming the cream off the top and screwing over our own people in the pursuit of power
The civil service is a majority Caymanian, the MLAs are Caymanian, Caymanians are the only people allowed to vote
How in your grand analysis do you fail to hold the people who actually set the rules and laws of the islands accountable, the only people working day and night to screw over Caymanians are the CAYMANIANS at the top
Take your xenophobia justifications and backward-assed rationalizations to an outhouse where they belong
This isn’t a problem with illegal or unwanted immigration, we set up our systems specifically with this reality in mind, the issue lies squarely and firmly on the Caymanians in power and the ill informed voters too concerned with gay marriage to actually pay attention to the state of the islands
Blah blah blah buddy.
Not only have you completed missed and misinterpreted the point of my post – but you and everyone reading this is well aware of the socio-political suicide consequence of suggesting even a sliver of the rhetoric that we see on this forum in the aforementioned jurisdictions.
Hello, people are KILLING other people over emigration and identity in the USA, UK and Europe (Australia + New Zealand)…with as minute a percentage growth of “10” as the back-breaking threshold.
Never before has the average Caymanian been so disenfranchised in our industrialised era, therefore clearly what we are doing is not working.
(Also, kindly take your accusations of me “blaming outsiders for Cayman’s problems” and shove them where the sun don’t shine. You will never witness me utter such sentiments.)
Instead of inviting every able worker from around the world, regardless of skill level, to be exploited by a runaway capitalist cesspool – Cayman needs to instil comprehensive policies that safeguard against the exploitation of ALL workers in the country – Caymanian and immigrants alike. (Yes, people like you are what people like you call immigrants in your home country).
Highest of all, we should be using this supposed “economic sweetspot” to create educational and training facilities and programs for our own people.
Our young people have seen their traditional “starter jobs” ripped from under them in a flash as employers can now bypass the Caymanian 17 year old and hire an experienced 32 year old Englishman and pay him $1200.00 a month.
The employer wins as he has an “experienced worker” and the Englishman wins because he is living in paradise, plus is taking home more than he would after taxes, NI, and other deductions back in Ol’ Blighty.
Nevertheless, eventually, one of those 17 years old are gonna say “eff it” and enter one of their homes via a window at 2am.
Bear in mind, I grew up in a Cayman with virtually zero crime – and I am not an old man.
Contrary to popular belief, this community did not suddenly produce a surge in violence for no reason.
Anyway, shame on my for wasting this time and bandwidth on an individual that could not give less of a crap for my community.
– Whodatis
Btw…interesting how you, similar to practically every other person on a platform today, have opted to completely ignore the “white power” wave (which I referenced a number of times) that has spread across the western world and DEMOCRATICALLY created the pink-elephant-foundation for everything from a President Trump, to a Brexit, a Nigel Farage, a Tommy Robinson, the circus that is the current UK non-government, to the plethora of Far-Right governments / leaders in Europe.
Thank God for civilised, western society.
I guess it will take the unmistakable smell of baked human flesh in the morning, once again, for cowards like yourself to call a spade a spade eh?
– Whodatis
*Feel free to forward the b.s. national breakdown of each circumstance as you fail to circumvent the the undeniable, simple connectivity of what we see around us in 2019.
Consider yourself on notice. No more excuses. Wake up.
Why are you so angry when someone has a differing opinion? Calm yourself..
The “angry” ones are those doing the killings, my friend.
I am simply speaking truth on the reality in which we find ourselves.
Again, you have also failed to address the trumpeting elephant.
At least complicity can no longer be denied by the likes of you.
Clearly my words apply, hence your defensive stance.
Many of your type among us. Welcome.
I trust your genetically regressive bloodline is never tainted 😉
– Whodatis
9:04am, don’t even try…
You speak with far too much intelligence!
Remove rollover and continue the slavery for the sole purpose of profit.
can we have a list of the business who want to eliminate the roll over?
It is a measure of how dumb (e.g. as dumb as rocks), that politicians cannot see that the rollover policy is an admission of abject, rank failure and dereliction of their duty to educate Cayman children properly.
An abject failure occurring over 30+ years when said politicians have been lining their pockets during the fat years of soaring GDP & living standards.
Caymanians should be taking to the streets to eject said politicians. Eject permanently.
Hmmn let me see now. Chris Kirkconnell president of chamber of commerce. Mo$e$ Kirkconnell and Joseph Hew both associated with CUC. Moses in tourism and Joseph in planning, connect this with Chris in chamber – result iconic tower already a sure thing. Period end of statement.
CNS: I was tempted to delete this comment because it’s a jumbled mess and makes no sense. Moses K is not associated with CUC; you are probably getting confused about his association with Power and Light. And what has that got to do with anything? Chris K, as Chamber president, just said they were against the tower. In any case, while the Chamber can, like all of us, express an opinion on the tower they have no power to OK it or otherwise. So if you’re trying to make a point, have another go.
why would you rollover someone who has been here for 10 years on a work permit where it has been proven every year there is no local to their job????
madness
It’s not that it’s proven. Work permit holders are in the position and the employer is supposed to still find a Caymanian to fill the work permit holders position by training up and seeking every year or whatever the length of time the work permit holder’s permit last prior to renewal.
The expectation is not that the work permit holder stays indefinitely and truly should be communicated as such.
The problem is that it is communicated that the system is so lax that the work permit holder feels entitled to the job and position and either never trains someone else up because he/she was not told to, does a shoddy job to ensure job security, or the employer is just too lazy or ignorant to try to train someone up.
The issue isn’t that the expats don’t train the locals, it’s that the education system doesn’t train them. Cayman should be providing a better standard of education for Caymanians. Really there is no reason it shouldn’t be among the best in the world. The problem is that they’d have to bring in more expat teachers to do it!
3:43 pm, I have a big problem with your assertion and/or question.. First of all 10 years was meant to accommodate the wailing business community with no thought of effects on Caymanian growth opportunities. Second what makes any of you think that within a minimum of five year period there can’t be and have not been Caymanians available to take over many work permit job and within 10 certainly a lot more , of note there is the fact that today we have a lot of our children who have studied abroad and either cannot get a job or it has taken an inordinate amount of time to obtain one even though qualified and with experience,
You see some of us understand the plight of the foreign worker for we too have left home and traveled and worked in various industries and held very senior positions around the globe, and we recognize the impediments that are created with a restrictive immigration policy for workers. Where we have failed in these Islands is because we have been afraid of creating policies that protect our own and at the same time facilitate businesses, there lies the real issue. In my opinion and that of many others including guest workers, there should be a workable system in place that allows for Caymanians to be trained and to be afforded clear and unobstructed upward mobility based on specific performance criteria. There are various countries that insist on a solid and verifiable commitment to upscale their locals while allowing a defined number of permits per annum as well as a path to residence and citizenship.
You will note I said we have failed and it is true. I agree for once in my lifetime with the Chamber of Commerce that the roll over process is now a pain in the butt, however, I and many others would like to see a further and expanded commitment of the major companies; Banks, Insurance, Hotels/Resorts, Trusts, Company Managers, and even our own CIMA etc, to enhance their efforts in providing training, and upward progress for Caymanians as well as for all workers, after all we live in a competitive world. We the people , our people deserve better than what has been doled out and it is up to the Businesses and yeah our politicos/government to come together on this issue before it’s too late!
Will you please run for office upon that platform? I’m not being sarcastic. I really want an honest politician who wants what the people do.
yeah, but why are you relying on businesses to provide training that should be taught at the college, like where the expats for their knowledge… Up until then, I would agree with most of what you said.
Sure you can provide some work training in some of those occupations but how on earth do you expect a company to provide financial, legal and accounting training for top jobs within CIMA, Trust companies, banks etc. Seriously?? These individuals paid university tuition to gain their degree. And this is why people call Caymanians ‘entitled’ because they think they can hold mgmt positions and get trained on the job.. I can’t even…
@ 10:42 Surely in any country there is an expectation that government would enable a cohesive educational system that serves the population on a whole. There is also an expectation that Businesses would as so called good Corporate citizens be fully interested in contributing to this worthy cause and for the benefits to be derived from which are more than evident. All I have tried to expound on is the fact that all the Institutions that I have named can play a bigger part than they do. Certainly internal training is provided, however, I believe that they can also make further contributions to the two internationally accredited colleges on these Islands, and that their HR programs need to be more vibrant along with Governments education department in defining short and long term man power needs in the various industries and train up our own for these jobs.
I think that upscaling our people with a comprehensive and objective driven programs in place could very well bring about a highly educated cayman work force geared to at a minimum covering 60-65% of jobs currently on permits in the specified areas in a 20 year span. Furthermore this should be a priority of our present and future Government , are they/ will they be up to the task.
A similar process could also be followed in the key area of Tourism where because we have not paid much emphasis there on until recently, our own Caymanians have been taught that it is as full of subservient jobs and for those who are qualified enter therein are highly discouraged either by how they are treated or by the low wage scale they are paid. This is an area where government must be encouraged to have dialogue with the principals on entering into a partnership of creating a proper school of Tourism in the these Islands with partnerships with prominent hotel schools outside of Cayman. Every year we boast of aTaste of Cayman and we applaud and admire the excellent cuisine brought forth by the immigrant and invited foreign chefs but there are a minute number of local Caymanian chefs exhibited . Don’t tell me we don’t have the talent , yes we do, but there is no effervescent program in place to nurture the talent.
We have and can continue to have a peaceful co existence with immigrant workers, provided that there is no lip service but auction by government, industries and its mouth piece chamber of commerce. Working together in honest and transparent ways much can be achieved for and within these Islands.
Yes…I would also happily sign a piece of paper saying that I will never apply for Status or PR and leave when I retire or lose my job. Unless you are a millionaire several times over you cannot afford to stay here, health costs make it prohibitive, so why would I? I can pay social insurance elsewhere and get treated.
You piece of paper cannot bind your children who are born here, so it is worthless.
If you are Honduran, have no money, and are doomed to live in poverty, would you want to survive on government support in La Ceiba, or Bodden Town?
Well because it’s the rules of the country you chose to do business in…actually the more lenient of the country.
In nearly every case there are locals who can do the job, but they are not willing to work for the wages offered. The rollover is intended to get rid of the low paid workers who do not earn enough to make any significant contribution to a pension plan or health care. But many employers enjoy having someone who will work for slave wages and who can’t quit and go work elsewhere, and they certainly don’t care about what happens to their work permit holders later in life.
Most of the workers about to be rolled over fall into this category. There are many different categories, but I will use construction as one example. Common labourers, and even some skilled craftsmen, are being paid the same hourly wage that they were receiving 25 years ago. Do you know why? Because construction workers from Jamaica, Cuba, Central America, and the Philippines still find that salary from 25 years ago to be very attractive today. Construction companies will reel of a list of reasons why they need work permits, but the real one is cheap labour makes greater profits from them.
It’s hard to say exactly how many fall into this category, but you can add wait staff, cashiers, dive staff, boat hands, transport drivers, domestic helpers etc.
7:03 cheap labour is a lot more than no labour!
I’d prefer Mr. Kirkconnell over big mouths like Moxam any day, please someone convince him as someone with real business sense and morals and looking out for the real Caymanians to run instead of the disruptive bunch I see popping up in all the radio shows.
I’m not 100% on the port idea but I have to agree that he seems like a much more solid choice than the angry, sounds just like all the other politician types like Johan
Now there is no unemployment and the economy is booming, this makes sense.
Looke like Bergstrom is just another DART puppet, just like the Legge’s were. We know who really runs the Compass. It’s a breath of fresh air that no one has bought or paid for CNS. They write and print it all, without strings.
Just an observation. Dart has accomplished more for this Island than Caymanians.
That is not true about CNS. CNS does not, repeat does not, publish it all – especially if it is constructive criticism related to a certain politician who advertises one of his many businesses on the CNS website.
CNS: As the person who sells ads on CNS, I am baffled. Which politician? Which business? Which ad? I have no idea. Let’s pretend for a minute that you know what you’re talking about, are you suggesting that our editorial content is dictated by a single ad? Or are you just making up nonsense? (Spoiler: yes you are)
CNS has been and always will be associated in favor of one political party. CNS is now old news, boring and does not present both sides of any story.
CNS: Which party? I’m sure whichever one you name will be as surprised as us. All of them think that our coverage of them is unfair and coverage of politicians outside their party/group is overly favourable. Again, just BS.
While I do not agree with the brashness of CaymanMarlRoad, this website far surpasses CNS in that they do not care if they are politically correct and do not remain quiet about most every issue.
CNS: It’s not about whether it’s politically correct, just that it is correct.
CNS has a fanatical base of bloggers who repeat the same ol’ mantra that things are really great with current government.
CNS: Jeepers! Do you read the comments? Which reality do you live in, exactly?
Thumbs up for CNS. :up: We <3 you, you know that. Why else would we be here, contributing?
If the Chamber wants to get rid of the rollover policy they should also remove the indentured servitude policy.
How does the Chamber like this idea:
1. After one year, anyone on a work permit can move to work for another employer. This will keep the “trained” and favoured employee within the Cayman Islands, and presumably they will have the opportunity to earn a higher salary and thus be able to provide for their own retirement and not become a burden on government many years later when the employer no longer has any use for these once indispensable employees.
2. After three years, these employees on work permits should be able to start their own business and compete with their employer. More businesses will grow the Chamber membership, and more competition will keep the prices down for everyone in Cayman. This looks like a no-brainer.
So is the Chamber of Commerce really concerned about free markets in Cayman, or are they just a Cartel seeking to rig the labour market for the current membership?
I like your first point and have raised this with my local MLA. By allowing free movement of labour within the same area (like Switzerland) this will actually make employers better as they will have to compete in the open market for employees and will also give Caymanians a better chance at getting jobs. This will never happen as it would be very unpopular with employers.
Id rather have a concrete tower into the sky than a concrete dock into the sea!!
The dock would benefit thousands of Caymanians. The tower would benefit one foreigner who paid for his Cayman Status. You sound patriotic, or pathetic I mean.
Just HOW on earth will the dock benefit ‘thousands’??? You are drinking the Kool-Aid again aren’t’ you!
I think they meant it will benefit $m for the politicians.
That benefit would be true if CHEC is awardedtheontract.
The Politicians are Caymanians!
The only Caymanians to benefit will be the few that own George Town shops. They don’t employ Caymanians, only furreners. You and the government are peddling more myths than Trump on a bad day.
10:31 in reality that’s not how it works.
I’d rather have neither.
…….. or option “C”, none of the above.
A way to keep future born Caymanians out of work and out of a COUNTRY! we shouldn’t even be accepting any more Status grants. Vote for politicians that will end this madness! I just might announce my run for the next election because this is out of hand. try going down to George town hospital its a nightmare – its time to freeze this tumor which is mass immigration our we shall and I say SHALL be replaced! Myan’s Inca’s and Abariginies of Australia if that’s how you spell it.
These hard-working reliable folks were hired and imported at considerable additional cost and hassle by your fellow Caymanian business owners. Post-2003 there have been very few status grants. Further, this regime suspended the entire legal path to citizenship for a half decade and rightfully got sued by those victimized, and you’re all for it…disgusting.
There have been several thousand status grants since 2003.
OK, you are a prime example of the need for a diverse population…You understand there is no such thing as a native Caymanian? All were imported, just like us.
Oh stop it with such tripe. No wonder Caymanians differentiate those who came by plane or pain. Please have a little more respect. It’s embarrassing.
8:57 I hope you know you are referring to smarter people!
Aldart is giving away PR at unsustainable rates and yet Chamber wants more? What about concerns over rights of tenure?
That’s fine, just change the law. At present status grants are in accordance with the law, despite efforts to delay and derail lawful applicants.
You can’t have a law , refuse to abide by it , then vilify those who follow the legally established procedures .
So why is it ok for politicians to do that?
What are you talking about? The only one being villified in initial comment is Aldart and CoC. Neither of which seem to give a sh.t about Caymanians.
Actually no status grants are made in compliance with the law. The law requires the board to consider a wide range of issues that it simply has neither the time, inclination, or training to consider.
Caymans need reparations, not more work.
Or counselling for excessive melodrama and self-pity.
Let Cayman level the expat field and request the US. use Cayman’s rules for Caymanians who are claiming US. citizenship or working in US.
Go check out today’s Compass. They have a whole article promoting Darts tower and not one mention that the chamber president said that chamber won’t support it and no one in Cayman or the business community other than dart wants it.
If that doesn’t prove that dart owns the compass I don’t know what does.
The Planning Dept should really drop the hammer and prohibit approval of any new DART nominee endeavour until they address the existing derelict property eyesores they continue to neglect with impunity. DART are not staffed to juggle their expanding portfolio of responsibilities, and we should all awaken to that reality by constraining and metering their “new project” pipeline.
The headline of this article should have read “Chamber says no to DART Tower” That is the most important thing I read here
Which select group of Chamber members were polled? I haven’t been asked, yet my membership is current.
Nobody want’s Chris’s cruise pier either.
7:36 Stop trying to fool our selves money big money will always comes first!
There should never be a 50 + floor tower In Cayman, just happy someone is finally saying it
It will never happen as there is not enough demand for tenants – what’s he going to do empty the offices in Camana Bay and compete against himself?
As for a hotel in the tower, who is going to pay premium prices for somewhere that is not on the beach – or is he going to move the beach?
5:34 It seems like y’all knows the future so well, then why are you so concern
will you be losing on SHARES!
This has been a thorn in the productivity of all businesses in Cayman and it does absolutely nothing to improve Caymanian employment. No other jurisdiction has this type of law. It is not an international standard. Many other island have permit holdera for twenty years without forcing the roll over.
No other jurisdiction has our constitution, and doesn’t grant citizenship within 10 years of residence.
Name 1 person that was granted citizenship based solely on 10 years of residency based on the constitution?
Every single child ever born here, who is still here on their 10th birthday.
They still need to apply for a continuation when they are 18. That means it is not citizenship if it can be taken away.
The BOT Citizenship they get cannot be taken away.
“The skyscraper effect describes an economic indicator that links the construction of the tallest skyscrapers with the imminent onset of an economic recession. The skyscraper effect suggests that there is a positive correlation between the development of mega-tall skyscrapers and a recession in a country.”
Or, as the Ancient Greeks knew, Hubris is extreme, foolish pride, overconfidence and arrogance. The goddess Nemesis shall surely pay Dart a visit soon.
There is no one I have talked to that is in favor of this tower. It would be a sore thumb on this tiny island.
We are Cayman, not Miami. A small island cannot handle anything bigger than what is already here. We don’t want to turn into Dubai. Dart take your greedy visions somewhere else.
Yes, Mister Dart….. take your greedy visions and your greedy ass somewhere else. It would be nice if you took your greedy puppet Cayman politicians with you!
As well as a couple of your self important employees.
Isn’t he buying up Jamaica?
What to be will be!
And quietly while all the island’s attention is on a dock and gay marriage…DART continues his slow and steady mission to run the island. Stand up and wake up Cayman, put your foot down and say no to this ridiculous monstrosity he wants to build.
Dart starting his propaganda campaign for his tower. Unbelievable ego. How are Caymanians letting him continue to take over their island. We meet a revolution against him.
It was Dart’s puppet you know who, that first mentioned increasing the height of buildings to 50 floors.
stupid, witless, ignorant, comments!
Iconic tower???? Dart really is stepping way over the boundary here. Hopefully he has greased the right palms, because there is no way that Caymanians would support this.
Iconic my a$$. Cayman is already iconic and unique in the region, no need to gild the Lilly.
what do Caymanians support!
Any politician that okays 15+ much less 50-80 stores towers is selling the island out. Say no to dart! He wants to run the island as a dictator, that is if he doesn’t already.
What we Caymanians need to do is pool or money until we have more than Dart!
I was listening to the Rooster on the way to work the other day. The host was talking about unemployment.
It was the most daft thing I have heard in decades, maybe ever.
The man was adding percentages? He said If 2.2% of Caymanian men were unemployed, and 1.8 % of Caymanian women were unemployed, and 0.7 percent of expats were unemployed… so then 5% of the workforce was unemployed.
Is there a ever an argument as to why businesses need to hire foreign employees it is because of our crap education of locals. Is this dude nuts? No, just ignorant of basic math. Scary though, because he clearly believes what he said. And he may have convinced others who are likewise uneducated.
Good job Chris! All excellent points and sensible comments.
I hope Govt reconsiders this foolish rollover. At least for helpers. It is nuts that I cannot employ someone I trust.
Rollover is a legal requirement if you do not want everyone who comes here to automatically become Caymanian. How would the Chamber suggest we pay for the maintenance, housing and healthcare of tens of thousands of retired minimum wage new Caymanians, and their families? Income tax?
Chris, you cannot pay people minimum wage, allow them to accidentally gain the right to live her forever, and then not be responsible for them.
This is only to keep the rich ex-pat employed without having to pay work permit fees and say they have Caymanians on staff.
If you had your helper for 10 years from the time your child is a baby then, your child at 10 years old should know how to cook and clean. If the issue is ensuring the child is safe at home or monitored then for one year put that child in after school care and you can stay home and not at the bar for that one year.
You save money by not paying a helper and not wasting money at the bar. It’s a win – win.
The Chamber of Commerce is a special interest group that could care less about the people of the Cayman Islands. Like every other special interest group they advocate for what their members want.
Okay, but I want my my yearly PR payments back first.
Your annual PR payment is the same you would have paid if you had a work permit so why the refund exactly? The call is to get rid of roll over, not the work permits. With PR you get to stop paying altogether if you move to full status after 15 years.
Pass the popcorn. This is going to be good 🍿
No high rise buildings! 10 storeys is enough!
I would rather have Ten 50 story buildings and still be able to see the sea rather than Fifty 10 story buildings and never be able to see the sea.
too late you can’t see it anymore
Exactly my point
But you could from the top of a 50 story building. Oh, the irony!
I think you missed the point. When we rebuild some of the older properties we could build higher rather than wider so those of us who can’t afford million dollar properties can still see the sea. You are correct you could see the sea from the top but also the sides.
10 was actually too much.
Kirkconnell for Premier!
Not a rass! Don’t trust anyone with that kind of silver spoon sticking out his mouth
No thanks. We don’t need another silver spoon raised child that knows not what it means to struggle, in any shape or form. Let Him eat heavy cake I say and stick to selling overpriced jewelry and whatnot.
This is stupid… really stupid.
Rollover works for a number of reasons:
i. It prevents (or it should) people living in the Cayman Islands for more than 9 years. This cuts down the chances of a successful human rights claim being brought under the constitution.
ii. It frees up (or should) employment for Caymanians. If you know a member of staff is leaving in one year, you can employee a Caymanian to be trained into that position. No role over then there is less motivation to employ and train Caymanians.
iii. if you have trusted employees, then make sure they can obtain PR. Save for Jamaicans and Filipinos who don’t have a Caymanian relative or haven’t invested more than CI$50,000 in the Cayman Islands most people should be able to obtain PR. If you have a trusted employee make sure 3-4 years before their role over date they are going to get PR. It’s not hard.
Are all Kirkonnell’s as crazy as Chris and Moses?
They talking pure nonsense to the detriment of caymanians. They don’t care because they are rich and disconnected how can they understand what we feel everyday
We should not forget that Chris K was speaking as the Chamber President. I don’t know where he personally stands on the matter. As for Moses K, I wouldn’t favour his reelection chances if he changes his views and supports the Chamber on this matter. And if you think the CPR petition drive is well organized, then you haven’t seen nothing yet if the Chamber continues to push for doing away with term limits.
Was he though? When and how were the Chamber members polled?
A survey went out to all members. Article said 111 companies replied and 70% answered against the roll over
Like father, like son. To answer your question.
Don’t let the conservative look, body language or spoken word fool ya. Their motto is most likely “Greed, for lack of a better word, is good”.
Chamber is full of shit elitist bunch we need a workers union in Cayman now
Start one then.
Without entrepreneurs , who will create jobs for the workers who want a union ?
Face it. You are the kind of people that would do better in a communist state. You want someone to take care of you(like Cuba) because you don’t think you can do it better yourself. Personally you might be right but it aint gonna happen.
Well done Chris and Chamber. So glad that someone with sense finally brought this failing policy to light. Now let’s hope that our career politicians will make the right decision and not just for them to get re-elected
Meanwhile in the real world…many rollover employees are now working from their home countries as outsource employees. IT allows businesses to continue employment of trusted and trained non-Caymanians without the requirement to pay pension and WP fees. Regarding Caymanians to train, where are they? Bring them on. You can’t take an unemployable simi-literate Caymanian and train them into an admin position. Businesses shouldn’t be burdened with the task of teaching basic literacy and math skills. The argument of no jobs for Caymanians that are qualified and willing to work is a very weak one. Find a new cause.
You are describing Outsourcing and it is happening to all countries where the cost of labour is relatively high starting frkm high basis before the effect of such policies. Immigration policy maybe fronted as a reason but the real reason is cost and there is no way that cost of labour in Cayman can be lower than those jurisdictions.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here, but the person is making a point that I can go and work anywhere in the world now with technology and the company can pay me the same, however by $30k WP/PR fee, 5% pension fee and $12,000 medical fee are no longer a requirement as i am operating outside the jurisdiction and the government will be out of pocket along with all the local business who make nice profits off everything we spend here. Look how easily the BVI operated after the last hurricane.
You didn’t read above well did you? Outsourcing and remote workers are the way of the world now. Entire IT departments are run out of India, call centres are run out of cheaper jurisdictions. Why do you think China became wealthy? They are just cheaper labor for the same/similar/maybe slightly lower quality product but ultimately it gets the job done.
6.19pm’ simi-literate’ ? Is that a literate resident of Simi Valley? Or more likely an example of a semi- literate person mocking other unfortunates. Karma is a b…h. As Caymanians say .. “spit in the sky, an’ it fall in yeh eye”.Tek dat.
Well, it was bound to happen with or without roll over policies. That is the outsourcing of work via remote access over the internet and its streamlined process and upward progress success and adoption rate where absolute privacy and security and KYC isn’t a major issue It simply could not be stopped. But at least the roll over slowed down any or some abuse of our import worker requirements. You win some and you lose some.
Part of the purpose of the rollover policy is population control and to prevent a profilation of an influx of low income people especially the elderly who cannot take care of themselves.
Caymanian unemployment is a myth.
As an expat, I believe in the roll over/ key exemption. You want to pick and choose people who stay here and not end up like many European countries or the USA where you can have masses of people imoorted to depend of government welfare.
And also, do not import liberals, you will end up looking like Chicago and Detroit or the rest of worldly sewers that lobal liberalism created via their “human rights” Trojan virus.
“And also, do not import liberals,”
I can see it now:
Immigration Form, Section 8:
Are You A Liberal?
Please Check YES [ ] or NO [ ]
Idiot, how and why would anyone screen for such a description? I suppose you’re a Trump fan as well. I based that on the sewers comment. Your kind isn’t wanted ’round these parts, please move to South Carolina or any other White, republican state.
Net News was saying this over a decade ago!
Bermuda, who authored this bad idea case study, abandoned it’s 6-year rollover disaster in 2013 with much regret over its implementation. By then, we had copied their misadventure and still six years on from then, still neglect to learn their lesson, or even listen to our business owners.
Bermuda also does not allow not Bermudans citizenship even if you are married to one. So they have their own means of population control.
No-one is a Bermudian citizen, as it is a British Overseas territory, the same as Cayman. Non-belongers can get Bermudian status, in the same way as in Cayman, though the rules are different (and tougher, as Bermuda is both smaller and has a larger population )
And soon we’ll have an over population as well, then we’ll also feel as small as Bermuda. 1 car per family is a coming if we don’t take care and slow the influx of foreigners, no matter if rich or poor. Like locusts theyccome and resources and space are limited and then there was nothing left once the money and opportunities have dried up.
You have to be born there from a Bermuda parent. There is no other way.
What’s a Golden Tower next to a pile of $H!T ?
“Members told the Chamber that they do not believe rollover works because it does not increase the number of qualified and available Caymanian workers but just forces companies to lose their trained and sometimes favoured employees, who are usually replaced by other new expatriates.”
So very true – they need to find other ways to increase Caymanian employment or promotion. The current policy makes zero sense.
It will only increase when caymanians decide to work for what they obtain/earn. Until that happens nothing will change.
You don’t just get a job because your last name is Ebanks, Thompson, or whatever.
Earn it.
Most new Caymanians don’t have those last names anyway. The younger generation do not inbreed.
Maybe not, 6:37, but the girls certainly breed…like rabbits….with useless immigrant laborers who move on to the next one when they get the first one pregnant.
Why are we still talking about Caymanian unemployment? It’s not a problem for any Caymanian with an ounce of ambition. Cayman is booming and there are opportunities in all sectors. Stop whining and go find a job.
Caymanians are the minority in their own homeland. That simple fact alone is a hurdle for most Caymanians that have to deal with constant racism and bigotry in the work force. Finding a stable job for some Caymanians is a challenge because four other nationalitie are over running this Island literally. We need rollover and we need less diversity in Cayman where Caymanains in their own land are the minority.
The people that come on here saying how unemployment shouldn’t effect Caymanins obviously don’t realise or don’t care that Caymanians are incredibly outnumbered by all the expats we have here. Minorities always get the end of stick in society, especially this corrupted one.
Actually the current policy is a legal necessity if you want to be able to have human rights and control who lives here.
Actually it’s not
So, what do you tell the child of a work permit holder who was born in Cayman and lived here for 15 years? Sorry, your mama no longer has a work permit and so you have to leave Cayman (despite the fact that the Law will automatically have given the child the right to remain forever and a Cayman passport on their tenth birthday).
The child would tell you that making them leave to live on a new country, or stay without a parent, would be a breach of their constitutionally protected rights, and any judge would agree.
Cayman would then lose the ability to control who lives here and on what basis – unless of course you are going to try to pass a law banning expatriates from having children, which would be a non starter.
When that child turns 18 they still have to file for a continuation to keep their status. Otherwise they lose it my dear and have no rights to be in Cayman as they are not Caymanians.
If only you read the law and understood what the words “BOTC by Registration by Entitlement” mean.
Any child born here who is still here on their 10th birthday gets to stay forever, whether they are Caymanian or not.
Is this a recent change? I had to apply for a continuation and if that was truly the case, then there would be no ghost Caymanians.
Not a recent change. It has always been there and is now s.36(4) of the Immigration (Transition) Law. The people gaining the benefit are not however Caymanian, and never need to be. They simply are BOT citizens and hold Cayman Passports.
Section 36(4) – clear as day.
‘they need to find other ways to increase Caymanian employment or promotion’
Yeah.Let’s start by increasing their levels of literacy, numeracy and instilling a work ethic that many of them lack precisely because they get to cherry pick jobs.
Too late .chris, Cayman is already a concrete jungle and secondly you do not run immigration.hire Caymanians at a decent wage and you won’t have to worry about roll-over.
No no no 4:37. Even if you made the minimum wage $25 an hour you would not get many Caymanians to be helpers, groundsmen/gardeners (sun too hot, bobo), garbage collectors, waiters, car technicians and body workers, a/c technicians (ceiling too hot, bobo) and any of the many jobs that can be described as ‘laboring”. Our people want to be lawyers and bankers and real estate people and accountants and have been told by stupid parents and, even worse, politicians that they can be, even when, unlike Roy McTaggert, Wayne Panton, Dan Scott, Alden Mclaughlin, Winston Connolly, Baron Jacob, Naul Bodden, etc etc etc they have no proper educational achievements or academic qualifications. Imported labor will ALWAYS be necessary. End of story.
5:01 by the way have you found one caymanian Barber!
Idiot
5:18 the person @ 5:01 has said nothing wrong!
If I could get Caymanians on the phone to bring them in for an interview, I would.
If I could get Caymanians to answer an email to bring them in, I would.
They need to show *some* initiative.
…or show up on time for an interview, or show up to work on time, or stick with the job more than 2 weeks
5:26 This is the same old story. You invite them for an interview and most don’t turn up. Those that come in don’t have a clue about how to present themselves at interview – I’ve had them sit there answering calls on their cell phone. If you offer them a job guess what? They don’t turn up. We actually had someone who left a note on the office door saying he’d changed his mind about the job then filed a complaint against us. A good friend of mine ran (he’s now gone back to the USA) a watersports business and bent over backwards trying to employ and train Caymanians. They didn’t want to do the work but demanded he provide them with clothing and provide lunch!
I remember working on a CIG employment initiative back in 2007 where a number of teenagers with what I’ll politely call ‘problems’ were interviewed. They were all high school drop outs but wanted to be architects, accountants and lawyers. It didn’t register with them that you needed a little bit more than basic life skills to qualify in these professions.
There’s a basic reality disconnect here.
If I could get an expat to call me back after an interview I would appreciate it. They just interview us so they can tell immigration/ WORC that they interview x number of Caymanians and no one was qualified enough. WORC needs to ask anyone who applied for a position and did not get a call back within a week to send them a copy of their application along with relevant documentation before issuing a work permit.WORC also need to see the tailor made Advertisement. They are also guilty of quoting a low salary for. caymanians ans a higher salary for one of their own. This malpractice has been going on for decades and no government has addressed it.
That is all true, witnessed it myself. There there are the permit renewals expecting qualifications even the existing permit holder does not have, to discourage qualified Caymanians from applying. I know of one Canadian who only recruits fellow Canadians and amazingly organizes training for himself and Canadian friends to guess where! Keep the rollover please, it at least allows purging of this type even when immigration does nothing.
So let me explain how this works…
Advertise a job and Throw a low number out: $18-$30K for a job that should command more pay based on the qualifications…
IF an undesired (read Caymanian) applies, then you run them down on skills and experience – to run them away.
IF the undesired has skills and experience, then you can either say they are overqualified for the position OR work them to the bone for pennies and laugh all the way to the bank.
NOW when the REAL person that you want applies for that job, you offer the desired person the REAL salary and cite their skills and experience as the reason for the salary adjustment.
You see, people assume the advertised salary will remain the same once they have the person they are looking for…
BUT in the meantime, the low salary is used to keep the position open and provide justification to hire abroad.
ONCE the position is filled, the employer doesn’t need to notify immigration or provide an update to newspaper saying position A makes X salary.
So on point and this has been happening for eons!
5.26pm If I could get a civil servant to answer his/her phone it would be a short call as I would die of a heart attack.
that’s so true, perhaps the gov should disconnect all phone service and save the $$$ since they never use it.
Whoa, look at that bright shiny red herring swimming by. The roll-over was never about Caymanian employment it was about Caymanian status control. If we don’t want people getting citizenship purely by dint of being here a long time (5 – 15 years) and – because the pension system is broken the world over – becoming a drain on the national economy when they retire from work we have to make them break their stay. Its that simple. Given the number of people who have returned after their year abroad I don’t think anyone except the CoC speechwriters can actually any longer believe that distraction that the roll-over was for Caymanian unemployment. Anyone saying that – and not addressing Caymanian socio-political control of the Cayman Islands and the long-term economic cost of an increasing population – is either deliberately or ignorantly misleading people.
@ Anon 21/06 @ 1:48pm. Spot on!
No surprises here. Old news.
Move on.