WP vaccine bills are constitutional, says AG
(CNS): Amendments to immigration and border control legislation passing through Parliament, which will add the COVID-19 vaccination to the conditions for work permit holders and some categories of residents, are constitutional and will withstand legal challenges, Attorney General Samuel Bulgin told Parliament Monday evening. He said that government is able to do things that could breach the Bill of Rights in the interest of public health or safety.
He said that the public was perfectly at liberty to challenge any law introduced by the government but he was confident that it would successfully defend any of the anticipated challenges to these legislative amendments. Bulgin, who has advised the PACT administration on the amendments, defended the requirement and said governments can, when required, introduce various conditions on foreign workers in the country’s interest or for public safety reasons.
“These changes are a rational and proportionate response to this deadly COVID-19 pandemic and in our view are fully compatible with the rights contained in the Cayman Islands Constitution,” he said.
Citing case law supporting the government’s position, he said the current immigration regime already provides for the boards to implement reasonable requirements for entry. He added that there is no legitimate expectation in Cayman for any work permit holder to enter, remain or settle here, as it is at the discretion of the authorities based on conditions.
“Those… who are applying to come and work can have no legitimate expectation of being granted to do so unless, of course, they are willing to meet certain conditions,” he said. “And there are no expectations that a work permit will be renewed. It does not matter if it’s a first renewal, a second permit or a tenth,” Bulgin added.
The vaccine will be just an additional condition, Bulgin said, accepting that those who have been here for some time who are faced with the choice of taking the vaccine or leaving will face disruption to their right to family life if they choose not to be vaccinated. However, government can still interfere with that right, given that it has an obligation to protect its people and the wider health system, he noted.
Reducing the number of people at risk of getting very sick will protect the healthcare system as well as the people and makes the vaccine condition reasonable.
Bulgin said the imposition of this requirement was proportionate, given the situation and the increase in community transmission as the government moves to reopen the borders. He explained that, because the vaccine being used here is proven to prevent serious illness or death, the mandate is justified.
“There is increasing and credible evidence that those who are vaccinated are less likely to become infected with COVID-19 and less likely to pass the virus on to others,” he added, as he explained why he believes the amendments will be insulated from any legal challenge based on the provisions of the Bill of Rights.
He said that government had made every effort to encourage people to take the vaccine voluntarily and it was satisfied that this mandate was proportionate because it applied only to people who do have a choice and must accept the conditions of the work permit regime.
See the AG defend the amendments below on CIGTV:
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Should worry about making it mandatory for tourism boat owners should be born Caymans would be a good start Sense the Government is in the best of interest for the Cita
Never hopefully. Although you weedheads behave as though it is decriminalized already.
I would never, EVER, hire a weedhead and if I knew an employee of mine was using, I would let them go….into their weed utopia.
You people live in an alternate reality and much of the time you hardly know what bloody reality you are in.
It’s a NO from me.
When will the Solicitor General bring an action against Cayman Airways for breach of COVID regulations ? Selective enforcement of law is what is happening.
Save your breath, friend. It ain’t happening.
What CIG should mandate is to have ALL frontline healthcare workers vaccinated – like the UK is about to do!!
C’mon CIG let’s get the common sense mandates done first!!
What Cayman has failed to notice, being busy, too busy fighting with COVID19, is that the world is changing dramatically. Seemingly civilized world that did not know what shortages and queues are, for the last eighty years or so is starting to experience shortages of many thing. And it is coming Cayman, ready or not.
We see headlines such as “The world is running out of paper and cars: what’s going on?”
Globalism is simply dying. The same globalism, with the advent of which, as its paid oracles predicted, an era of universal prosperity will come.
Globalism – to put it very briefly – is when corporations produce practically everything, somewhere out there, far away (and for very little money), and then sells it in the EU for example – for very large euros. And the difference – sometimes a thousandfold – goes into the pockets of those who came up with this scheme, and those who helped and are still helping to implement it.
These theorists, who saw life from the windows of their comfortable offices, managed to convince many millions of ordinary people that globalism is a real universal human value, thanks to which the poor and developing countries will receive production capacity, they will have access to industrial know-how and, of course, a lot will be created. NEW JOBS.
The countries, which by the same theorists belonged to the rich and developed, in turn, will be able to develop science even further and deeper, improve the environment, and new economic industries will appear, primarily those that rely on the development of network technologies.
Globalism hit world’s economies very gradually.
One plant is closed, then another, then a third – you see, the whole industry, for example, the textile industry, is gone. In Europe.
One factory was closed, then another – and the production of liquefied oxygen ceased to exist. In almost all EU countries.
Generous unemployment benefits and existing systems of personnel retraining for the time being, allowed to hide this social crisis quite successfully. Until the coronavirus came and put everything and everyone in their place.
The collective West in the period of a pandemic found itself in a position where “whatever you want to grab it is not there.”
There was no medicine. There were no working hands. Fruit and vegetable crops were rotting in all the southern EU countries, from Spain to Italy. Local residents, spoiled by globalists, refused to bend their backs on the strawberry plantations, did not want to pick tomatoes and apples, and in order to save the grape harvest, workers had to be urgently imported from Bulgaria and Romania. There was no medical equipment – in the Apennines, doctors and nurses worked in the red zones in their own beach diving masks.
But, as it became clear today, this was only the first bell.
Media: “the world faces problems with toilet paper”-wood semi-finished products are needed for its production, and the largest producers of raw materials are experiencing problems with its supply, Bloomberg reports.
According to Walter Schalka, the head of Brazilian company Suzano SA, which accounts for about a third of the world’s supply of wood pulp, against the background of an increase in demand for the transportation of goods by sea, there was a shortage of ships performing this task. This has already been reflected in exporters handling container-packed goods. Schalka expressed concern that the situation will also affect goods transported in other types of packaging.
Now, when production (again in Asia, no one was going to move industrial capacities back and forth) has been resumed again, there is an acute shortage of freight containers to deliver the finished product to the consumer. “We left our containers where the planetary lockdown found them, and now we cannot find them,” the owners of transnational corporations engaged in sea transportation report.
They could not foresee how their own negligence would turn out, but they immediately (in full accordance with the laws of the market) turned it into a profit.
The cost of shipping increased by 85 percent. In just 12 months, the profit of carriers increased fourfold, and the growth does not intend to stop.
But the globalists in their eternal pursuit of super profits do not stop there: since there is often no one to unload containers, tens of thousands of them have accumulated in the ports of arrival in Europe, the price of this service also increases.
BBC writes nearly daily “Why even giant ships can’t solve the shipping crisis”,”Visas for poultry workers, vet retention, vet shortage”, “Overseas workers only way to solve shortages, says Next boss” BUT WILL THEY COME?
Globalism with all its ideas about “welfare for the whole world” turned out to be just a cover for a gang of greedy businessmen who actually took hundreds of millions of people hostage.
In large parts, true, except… globalisation has help more than a billion people out of extreme poverty over the past 30 years. Here’s a link to just one of many sites that can confirm this.
The world has made huge strides in overcoming global poverty. Since 1990, more than 1.2 billion people have risen out of extreme poverty. Now, 9.2% of the world survives on less than $1.90 a day, compared to nearly 36% in 1990.
https://www.worldvision.org/sponsorship-news-stories/global-poverty-facts
Take a drive down Rock Hole Road and report back on the eradication of poverty.
Learn to read – reduction isn’t eradication.
Take a trip down Rock Hole Road and report back on the eradication of poverty
Glad you lot weren’t around during polio – a coworker was showing me the side effects of taking the vaccine, dig a little an saw she was taking the side effects of a non approved vaccine from China an applying to all vaccines. Then the next argument is that we should think for ourselves and not blindly follow what we are told…. She is the most religious person I have ever met, I find it funny how she can’t see that if she was born in a different part of the world the chances of her being Christian are very slim. Everyone wants to be offended these days
Sometimes when you cut words from sentences, fail to use punctuation and spellcheck, you tend lose track of what you are trying to convey. I tried really hard with this one. I THINK I know that was said but not too sure…
So, a co-worker showed you the side effects of a non-approved polio vaccine?
Did you know that ‘an’ and ‘and’ are two different words meaning two different things?
You really don’t have a life
Hey pot, stop calling the kettle black.
“I THINK I know that was said….” Did you mean to spell the word “what” instead of “that”?
As a guest in a foreign Country, you are required to follow their laws. If getting vaccination is one of them, wellll, get vaccinated or, leave.. Pretty simple actually,. Cayman did fine before we started letting folks in from Countries who are less aggressive about keeping their citizens safe from this virus.
You are required to follow their laws? But those laws don’t apply to Caymanians. Its not “when in Rome do as the Romans do” but “when in Rome do what the Romans don’t want to do””. Agree Cayman can set whatever rules it wants – just dont try and take the moral high ground about blatantly discriminatory ones, at least be honest and say tough, take it or leave. Its the hypocrisy that gets peoples back up.
Thin line between freedom an anarchy
There’s also a thin line between exaggeration and reality.
As an expat I’m more than happy to have it mandated, I got jabbed in March, but I don’t understand how it protects caymanians? Every new wp holder coming here will be vaccinated which helps, but surely only caymanians are helped if they get themselves vaccinated?
don’t bring common sense into this!!!….it makes caymanian leaders squirm…
You are right. But so is the Govt, just less (directly) than you. The Govt. are using a ‘herd immunity’ approach (without calling it that). – For the sake of the below explanation leave aside whether herd immunity works for COVID at what percentages.
If we have 5 persons, and three of them are vaccinated (a 60% vaccination rate), the herd/group has immunity and COVID cannot spread around the herd.
If one person cannot take the vaccine for a medical reasons we still need 3 vaccinated persons for herd immunity but the vaccination % is now up to 3 out of 4 (75%).
The remaining 4 persons who could be vaccinated are divided into two groups of two. Group A who we can force to be vaccinated and Group B who we cannot force to be vaccinated.
Convincing people to be vaccinated has a 50% success rate, regardless of if you are group A or B.
After trying to convince the group to vaccinate 1 person cannot (for medical reasons) one person from A and one person from B do vaccinate, for 2 vaccinations out of 5. This is a 40% vaccination rate and below the 3 out of 5 (60%) herd immunity vaccination rate.
But, if I can force the second person in group A to get vaccinated we now have three people vaccinated out of the 5, achieving the goal of herd immunity and protecting the two people who are not vaccinated (one for medical reasons and one by choice).
Therefore forcing all of a group of people to get vaccinated can protect the unvacinated persons in another group. … To an extent.
Note that the above is not a defence of the Govt approach, but an explanation in response to the question asked.
Too bad your analysis is fatally flawed. No such vaccine currently exists for C19 that will stop the spread. Even if 100% of the population is vaccinated. Got any current science that disagrees?
Yep. The Pfizer vaccine is only 47% effective after 6 months
Obviously ‘real life’ scenarios are more complicated. That is not a ‘fatal flaw’ in the worked explanation.
(Not an analysis. And not a justification. Just an answer to how might forcing vaccination help other people. Whether it does or not in practice is a whole different question.)
“There is increasing and credible evidence that those who are vaccinated are less likely to become infected with COVID-19 and less likely to pass the virus on to others,..what a retard ….. obviously he is having facts hidden from him or another agenda ….
I’d take a look at your grammar and punctuation before calling a highly educated person a derogatory word.
Let alone being factually correct lol.
While I do not agree with some of the other policies of the PACT government, I do 100% support the vaccine mandates as amended and hope that the Civil Service does the same as the Deputy Governor has indicated.
Well I hope civil servants follow their DGs advice /pleas as well, but gat this stage, do you honestly think that persuasion is likely to work?
Putting ethics aside for a moment, one reason not to mandate vaccines is because it won’t work. You’ll still get community spread to unvaccinated and unvaccinated Caymanians. It’s happening in highly vaccinated countires around the world. Then what?
This is a variation on the why get vaccinated if you may still catch Covid argument. Completely ignores relative risk – unless it completely eliminates the risk it is put on the same basis as inaction. By this logic you shouldn’t vaccinate anyone at a because you can’t vaccinate 100% of the population. It won’t work in all cases is not the same as it won’t work.
Actually it’s completely the opposite of your argument. The risk mitigated through mandates is nearly zero if not zero for those already willingly vaccinated. If you disagree, show me the science.
So lets jump both feet into a dystopian nightmare through severely coerced vaccinations that are a new technology with completely unknown long term risks.
Alarm bells are sounding around the world about vaccine mandates especially in light of the emerging data regarding vaccine efficacy and natural immunity. This tact is doomed to failure one way or another it’s only a matter of time. These will be historic times and it’s truly a shame that evidently people are no longer learning or concerned with history.
Vaccine this, unvaccinated that. When is the decriminalization of ganja coming ????
Great decision. Get the vaccine or take a flight
please take tha jab the side effects will cull the heard soon enough …
HAHA your ignorance will get you first.
Five errors in 13 words. Well done.
But just expats. No Caymanian should have to take the vaccine, lose their job, leave the island and their homes, have the quarantine laws apply to them, or be in any way discriminated against in Cayman islands. Just expats. We get it. We understand that expats, their skills, experience, businesses, money, etc. are no longer wanted here. Thanks for putting up extra fights so we can leave.
you are dumb. this is our home…. WHERE do we go?? the unvax expats CHOSE to come here and you have an option to leave again so please burst this pity bubble and go hom if you dont like it since you have that choice its very simple to understand. THIS IS OUR HOME WHERE ARE YOU GUNNA SEND THE UNVAX IF THIS IS THEIR HOME. please use your brain.
Don’t let the door … well, you know the rest. Please leave your assets that you’ve earned while you’re been here with Caymanians. We don’t like it when you send your earnings, which rightfully should have been made by Caymanians, somewhere else.
Xenophobia is all the rage.
It’s easy t get up in Parliament and say something, but not so easy to get a court to believe your argument.
Lol. The law firms are going to have a field day with this nonsense.
Jamaicans can afford Cayman’s lawyers. Maybe they will work pro Bono ….. hahahahhaha! Just kidding
Alden is meant to do pro bono work having been made a QC. Perhaps he can represent them.
I wish they wouldn’t
So all our covid cases are from foreign nationals. how ignorant it’s caymanians who passed this around for breaking quarantine
Doesnt matter where they came from, its OUR country.
Technically, it’s our territory.
ok colonizer
Sorry not sorry.
Believe the UKs official position with all the BOTs is that they are welcome to independence if they ask for it. Yet no Cayman government ever has. Strange kind of colonialism with a reluctant colonizer.
Technically, its the Queens.
The nationalism is strong here and the population numbers touted to justify this targeted action have never been verified. The census, if done properly, will reveal this.
No unvaccinated census worker can come to my door. The census will be the ultimate in super-spreader events.
If the Government send unvaccinated census takers to people’s doors and someone gets Covid from them, the government is going to face huge lawsuits!
Could the Honorable Attorney General please confirm why it is reasonably justifiable to force expatriates at Maples to be vaccinated, but not the expatriates working in his office?
@3:10pm
October 5, 2021
Deputy Governor Franz Manderson said, as head of the civil service, he would not be requiring mandatory vaccinations for Caymanian civil servants, including frontline workers, but provisions may be put in place mandating vaccines for non-Caymanian civil servants.
Speaking during a debate into bills that mandate vaccines for expatriates and visitors, Manderson said that he would be looking at revising the Public Service Management Act to require non-Caymanian public service employees who are newly hired or renewing their contracts to be vaccinated.
To even frame the policy like this shows that it discrimates based on national status and is therefore probably unconstitutional. Vaccine mandates apply across the board or are unconstitutional.
Bingo! This is a public health issue. It applies to the public. All of it!
But not uncaymanian Bobo. The rule of law is only for expats in the Cayman Islands. Caymanian constitution is clear on this.
Lies lies lies. No one is being forced to vaccinate.
Cake or death? Vaccine or loss of job, house, friends, children’s education, …some choice?
He nah know.
This only applies to FS, NOT to the law firm…
Yes, well we all know what the governments record is on legal challenges. There is an abundance of lawyers smarter than the AG right here in Cayman.
Sadly, that’s true. I hope the AG is right in this situation though.
Raional to impose conditions on new entrants to your community. Get that. Proportionate to insist on vaccination rather than proving themselves virus free at point of entry, debatable. Discriminatory to only apply the requirement to private sector expatriates and not to expatriate civil servants – absolutely. AG needs to remember that the legal standard includes not just rationality and proportionality, but equity as well. Guess that’s why he didn’t mention it. Of course, the AG has plenty of experience in advising government in the standards of reasonable conduct and liability by government. Same AG involved in the Operation Tempura fiasco, the PR status points loss on judicial review,gay marriage and the defence of Customs and Dr Lee in the Doctors Express frolic. Struggling to think of a successful defence against judicial review that he has masterminded, actually.
I have no idea how this man still has a job.
He knows stuff.
You mean other than the law?
He doesn’t know shit about that but he does know stuff about people and things.
Why? Go back to 2002 and the EuroBank trial debacle and the UK’s sneaky dealings with Brian Gibbs and David Ballentyne.
FACTS!!!!!
If any Caymanian, working and living overseas at the pleasure of their host country/Government were faced with the requirement to vaccinate or forfeit the right to work/live in that particular country, refused that requirement and were rejected from said country, then that would be right and fair!
Why is it not the same for WP holders working and living in Cayman?
Vaccinate or leave!! Simple!
Yes, and why not when it relates to pandemics and containing the effects thereof??
Thanks Mr. Bulgin, hope your teams are ready and capable to defend.
Well QC Alden will be leading the charge against along with Roy & gang for backup so he will have his hands full!
“QC” Bulgin, “QC” McLaughlin. What a joke.
QC stands for quick change!
lol, not likely
Its all about our safety not yours. Caymanians safety not expats. Just Caymanians because they go by a different set of laws and rules Than expat laws and rules.. You might want to think about moving, working, doing business and living in a place where it can be about your safety too.
If was about health and safety they would make it mandatory for Caymanians, seen as though their argument is that the vaccine works , is safe and protects, then why not protect the caymanian people by making it mandatory for them? This is not about health or safety ….!!
Work permit holders who don’t want to get vaccinated will need to decide if they want to continue to work in the Cayman Islands or if it would be more advantageous for them to seek employment in a location that would allow them to remain unvaccinated. The country can’t be held hostage by individuals that don’t have the right to remain in the Cayman Islands.
you will be begging them to comeback after they leave. You would not care if they are vaxxed. It is already happening in Europe and the US.
Lol. Nice try. It’s not happening. People demanding a living wage is however.
Not likely.
Until you have to clean your own toilet.
Same thing was said about the rollover years ago, when hundreds maybe thousands? had to leave.
easy solution for cig,,,
forget mandating vaccination….just bring in social/travel restrictions for the unvaccinated in public(like what the rest of the world is doing).
the fools will soon get the message
That would be reasonable and proportionate. You may expect too much.
I’ve given the CI Gov my blood and urine results many times over the years so have no issues being required to disclose vaccination status as a work permit holder. Heck they already require my HIV/AIDS status so I’m sure not getting precious over this.
I hope the law is simply not just for renewals of work permits but also an amendment to any current work permits as many of these permits may have expiry dates well into the future. If the logic holds that government does have the authority due to the issues relating to Covid and public health then whether it is a new or renewal work permit should not make a difference.
For those who think this is either unfair or somehow takes away a choice they should be reminded that if not a permanent resident or citizen does not grant automatic allowances to remain and work in Cayman. Most if not all work permit holders have a home country they can return to at their leisure. It is doubtful that they are refugees looking for some type of asylum. Sometimes choices in life are not always what an indivudal wants but there is always a choice. In this case get vaccinated or return to your homeland where you will be wlecomed with open arms
Having worked in many overseas countries I just can’t work out that Cayman would even think of not enforcing rules on WP holders ..go to Saudi Arabia. And many other highly imported labor countries and see if you can make it up as you go along .quite bizarre to even question it the answer is take it or leave
Ah, Saudi Arabia, where homosexuality is punishable by death
cayman is a land of hypocrisy and discrimination with certain rules/restrictions only applied to expats.
as an expats i don’t like it but its my choice to stay or leave.
as for vaccinations….cig should mandate it for all permit holders and all civil service staff.end of story.
Its our country, what are you gonna do about it…leave? Lol
Ummm, actually not a country. It is however a constitutional democracy with a Bill of Rights protecting ALL people in the jurisdiction.
Nooo….it makes too much sense!!! Lol
We are not quitters. We are smart enough to see that soon the island will be ripe for picking. We will use patience and experience and once again land on the top. See you on the other side of Covid.
Claptrap! There is no rational reason to impose the vaccine on a section of particular residents in the Cayman Islands and not impose vaccines on Caymanian Healthcare workers, who presumably deal with vulnerable ‘Caymanians’.
As long as they are expat and not Caymanian health care workers as clearly that would be irrational.
Remind me, what is the AG’s record on constitutional challenges in the last 5 years? LMFAO
Thank You Mr. Bulgin!