Random spread of COVID now well underway
(CNS): Officials confirmed Friday evening that a passenger aboard a private charter boat had tested positive for COVID-19. This was the third case revealed yesterday of a community transmission without any connection to the previous outbreaks at the schools. Public Health said that 25 other passengers and two crew members on the boat have now been placed in isolation. Numerous other families connected to the latest cases of students in five different schools, including one pre-school, are now also isolating, as are the other two adults and their households whose positive test results are unconnected to any known cases, as the virus now spreads randomly throughout the community.
The person aboard the local cruise boat who tested positive was not symptomatic but was due to travel today (Saturday) and was therefore given a screening PCR test. Public Health officials tracked down the vessel, which was at Star Fish Point, North Side, and it was then brought to the dock at the Yacht Club to ensure that public health protocols were followed.
“I want to thank the crew and passengers for their cooperation with the screening procedures today at the West Bay Yacht Club,” said Medical Officer of Health Dr Samuel Williams-Rodriguez, asking the relevant households to remain in isolation until they are given advice about when they can be released from quarantine.
“In order to complete contact tracing, we will need to have the results of all of those aboard to understand the situation, and after that, we will advise everyone when they can be released,” he added.
With the 13 other cases of local transmission revealed Friday, there are now 70 active cases. Twenty-six people who are positive are showing some symptoms of the virus. Of these, the only patient in hospital is the North Side woman who was admitted on 8 September with an unrelated illness and tested as per protocol, becoming the first confirmed local transmission of COVID-19 since last summer.
Well over a thousand people are now isolating and Public Health staff are contact tracing the various clusters, as well as testing with the assistance of Doctors Hospital and Health City.
According to a release from the Ministry of Health and Wellness and the Ministry of Education issued Friday, they and the Public Health Department have developed new protocols for handling confirmed cases of COVID-19 in schools, which are as follows:
- In the event of a confirmed case in a class/year group (student or teacher):
- That person will be isolated with their household and retested on Day 15;
- The classroom(s) and common areas will be sanitised in the evening/night.
- The entire class/year group will be tested, and lessons will continue in school.
- If additional cases are identified in the testing, the entire class/year group and members of their households will be required to isolate.
- People in isolated households will be retested on Day 15
- If the household retests negative, then they will be released from isolation.
- If a member(s) of the household retest positive, the entire household remains in isolation until they test negative.
All isolating students will switch to online learning.
See here for the latest MoE COVID-19 Guidelines for Educational Institutions
or find them in the CNS Library.See here for more on the CIG response to COVID-19.
Anyone with flu symptoms is urged to stay at home in the first instance and contact the 24 hour Flu Hotline or your general practitioner to speak to a health professional about those symptoms before visiting the flu or testing clinic.
Flu Hotline: 1-800-534-8600 or 345-947-3077 or 345-925- 6327 or email flu@hsa.ky
Callers will be screened for travel history and advised on what to do next.
See the vaccine schedule on the HSA website here.
For more information on vaccines contact the HSA Communications team at
communications@hsa.kySee here for more information on securely verifiable vaccination records.
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Category: Health, Medical Health
Cayman’s biggest problem with COVID is the high prevalence of obesity. Quit the burgers and fries. Walk, don’t drive
9.26pm Based on the low number of deaths and hospitalizations I beg to disagree. On the contrary I say, don’t change your diet right now.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/05/pfizer-covid-jab-90-effective-against-hospitalisation-for-at-least-6-months
Latest data published in the Lancet today (important medical journal)
“ Two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine are “highly effective” at preventing hospitalisations for at least six months, a large-scale study shows, but protection against infection nearly halves over the same period.
Effectiveness against all Covid infections fell from 88% within a month of having two doses to 47% after six months, according to the research. However, effectiveness against hospitalisations remained high at 90% overall – and crucially across all variants, including delta.”
Cayman can now stop pointing to New Zealand. Zero-COVID policies are non-sustainable.
“Battling Delta, New Zealand Abandons Its Zero-Covid Ambitions”
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/04/world/australia/new-zealand-covid-zero.html
@04/10/2021 at 8:35 am – Why guns and knives? We don’t have random acts of senseless violence in Cayman. We don’t have people shooting other people over parking spaces, or because they don’t like the color of someone’s skin, or because they don’t like a person’s religion, or because they don’t like a person’s political affiliations, or because someone is Mexican. We don’t have people here shooting black people because they are jogging in a mostly white neighborhood. We don’t have people shooting innocent concert goers from hotel rooms here. We don’t have neighbors shooting neighbors over simple matters that can be resolved with an adult conversation over a few beers.
No sir, you must be mistaking the Cayman Islands for the United States of America.
No, but we do have a country where more people are killed by stabbings in nightclub parking lots, gangbangers shooting each other over respect, and by drunk drivers. Yet the amount of government time and resource spent on Covid massively exceeds what they do about the others – which was the OP’s point. Deal with the point instead of simply saying another country is worse – the relative privation fallacy just makes you look thin skinned and illogical.
@04/10/2021 at 12:28 pm – LOL! Dude, what are you talking about? You heard about some dude getting stabbed in a bar, now all of a sudden Cayman is unsafe for you? Firstly, that kind of stuff happens very rarely, and when it does, the people involved KNOW each other and they’re fighting over some old beef that they’ve had between them for years. People are not stabbing other people that are unknown to them, they’re not attacking expats, and they’re not attacking tourists. Anybody can go into even the dodgiest bar in Cayman and, if they are polite and cool, nobody will bother them. You’re making it sound as if random people are being stabbed in bars here, which is the REAL fallacy! LOL!
Did I say anything about Cayman being unsafe? I was replying to 12 pm, who tried to make it sound like the OP was out of order because the US was unsafe (without any evidence that the OP was American either, BTW). But if you want to get into it, try telling the innocent bystanders in Vic’s bar that got shot by those two gang bangers that they should have been fine if they were polite and cool, or the bystanders that got shot in Martins Drive. Or Andy Barnes young kid. Or the guy that got the through and through in Jet night club. Cayman isn’t the US true, but to say that the level of violence here is ok because its just people hurting people they know is – well, just wrong.
No random acts of senseless violence in Cayman? What would you call 2 mass shootings this past summer on the island? What about the stabbings in the parking lot at closing time at Lilly’s and the killing at Banana’s? And the rest of the violence that has taken place recently? I would put all of those in the category of senseless acts of violence.
The difference is, the people in those crimes were known to each other. I’ll ask you this, do YOU feel safe here? I certainly do.
Here’s the result of your beautiful model you aspired to be like
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-zealand-to-end-zero-covid-19-strategy-11633331640?mod=latest_headlines
That’s because they feel invincible. Very fit? No question. But it’s not just about you FFS get vaxxed!
From NBC News
People who are vaccinated against Covid-19 are less likely to spread the virus even if they become infected, a new study finds, adding to a growing body of evidence that vaccines can reduce transmission of the delta variant.
British scientists at the University of Oxford examined national records of nearly 150,000 contacts that were traced from roughly 100,000 initial cases. The samples included people who were fully or partially vaccinated with either the Pfizer-BioNTech or the AstraZeneca vaccines, as well as people who were unvaccinated. The researchers then looked at how the vaccines affected the spread of the virus if a person had a breakthrough infection with either the alpha variant or the highly contagious delta variant.
Both vaccines reduced transmission, although they were more effective against the alpha variant compared to the delta variant. When infected with the delta variant, a given contact was 65 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine. With AstraZeneca, a given contact was 36 percent less likely to test positive if the person from whom the exposure occurred was fully vaccinated.
The risk of transmission from a breakthrough infection was much higher if someone had received just dose of either vaccine.
The study was posted online Thursday and hasn’t yet been peer reviewed. But scientists not associated with the research said the findings were credible.
For full coverage of the coronavirus pandemic
“It’s the highest quality study we have so far on the question of infectiousness of vaccinated people infected with delta,” said Dr. Aaron Richterman, an infectious disease physician at the University of Pennsylvania, who was not involved in the research.
Susan Butler-Wu, a clinical microbiologist at the University of Southern California, called the study “well performed,” especially because it reflects real-world transmission since it tracked spread among close contacts.
Using cycle threshold (Ct) values, the researchers found a similar level of viral load in unvaccinated and vaccinated people who were infected with the delta variant, backing up prior studies. Even so, people who were fully vaccinated were still less likely to infect others.
“Transmission is much more complex,” Butler-Wu said, meaning the Ct value is just a snapshot in time and doesn’t reflect the entire course of illness.
The covid vaccines massively reduce risk of serious illness & % transmissibility. So by taking the vaccine, you help yourself & others.
This is very easy to understand – unless you’re dumb.
Most people are dumb.
Also, it’s not that easy. The only problem with your statement is that data shows that after about three months protection against transmissibility drops off to the point where it makes no difference whether you’re vaccinated or not.
The fact that more people will give this factual statement thumbs down than thumbs up proves my point. Thank you.
Actually, it is because your statement is factually wrong.
As predicted and “supposed to happen”, yet the politics of hysterics continues…
Guided by irrational fear.
As an outside observer I think that if CIG is serious about saving lives, the first thing it should do is take away cars, guns and knives from you all! Then worry about Covid.
Maybe take away internet access from idiots first of all.
Not culturally sensitive. Think third world.
As an inside observer, why don’t you stop spouting nonsense. Covid is a serious illnesses and people should all they can to stop from getting it and from spreading it. Perhaps it will take a few people in Cayman perish from the disease before you shut up.
Nah- The real killer is KFC, BK and B&H.
All droplet spread, right?
And they should take away the keyboards from people who make stupid suggestions.
JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel restricted its COVID Green Pass on Sunday to allow only those who have received a vaccine booster dose or recently recuperated from coronavirus to enter indoor venues.
That’s because they realise this is a serious virus, causing a serious illnesses, with potentially serious long-term health implications.
We are not in suppression/zero-Covid stage anymore. Wayne said this a while back yet every new positive it’s the same old cry. It doesn’t matter if cases are related to same outbreak or a new outbreak.
In a maintenance phase, government shouldn’t be wasting their time and resources on detailed contact tracing.
• Schools SHOULD be required to notify parents of cases in their child’s class so parents can choose to get their child tested if they want. No need to test/lockdown an entire class or school every time a child tests positive.
• Employers could sent a courtesy email to employees if their business has a positive.
• Other than that, people can notify their contacts when a positive test result is received.
Personal responsibility. If you are exposed or have symptoms, get tested. If positive, notify people you’ve been in close proximity with plus employer or school and do the required isolation-period. If negative, move on and live life.
As an employer I have liability for my employees well being at work, and cannot exposure them to a potentially dangerous situation. Yet I am also prevented from asking about their vaccination status, or whether they have any high risk issues for Covid. So with a known case in the office which means others could have been exposed, you think I should just send a courtesy e mail to the others? And how do protect the identity of the person that is positive if I allow everyone else to come in (assuming I am mad enough to let people who were in extended and close proximity to the infected person come into the office without a PCR test, which I am also not allowed to insist on?).
As an employer, you have no responsibility for your worker’s health unless your business directly compromises their health. They have that responsibility, nor are you ordained with any superior knowledge than they possess as to how they should take care of their health.
My work just sends an email to say there was a positive in whatever department. Easy peasy. We don’t freak out and if we feel we need to get tested we do.
Same for my kid’s school. We get an email that says there was a positive in the class. If we want to test, we do. No isolations other than positive student.
No big deal.
It’s becoming quite clear that the majority of those wishing mandatory vaccinations, elimination of quarantines, and the full opening of the borders are wealthy property owners.
If that is the case, and they are truly concerned about the economy. maybe they should volunteer to pay annual property taxes and monthly business taxes on their rental units. It is after all, about the resurgnce of the economy, right?
Hit a nerve of wealthy property owners…..
Just like racism, it isn’t a problem until it affects them. People in the United States have been screaming for decades about this. They are really showing their true colors and dirty tactics, when “their money” gets involved.
Cash cow getting too complicated. Makes too much sense for them to give any *****.
Google gentrification. That disease spread has been well underway for years.
“Why can’t they just do as they are told?!!! I want my money!!”
Don’t listen to the crocodile tears folks. Eventually, they will divest and leave us alone when property values pancake.
The Civil Service is only 70% vaccinated. Civil Servants are paid from tax dollars. Time to cut Civil Servants pay and give the money to Caymanians in the Tourism sector. #CaymanKind….
Not true. I work in an office of over 100 (not sure if the owners are “wealthy” or not). Almost universally, with limited exception, everyone here supports removal of quarantine for vaccinated and mandatory vaccinations for work permit holders.
And I bet you they would also mandatory vaccination for civil servants and stipend recipients. Right now looks like we are only going to get one of those four – the least politically difficult, conveniently.
6:23 That has to be one of the stupidest comments I’ve ever read! As a not-wealthy Caymanian, I have been wishing for the borders to open for months!!!!! Many of my friends and family feel the same.
I find those advocating for freely reopening are only those who would greatly financially benefit from doing so. Naturally. Restaurant owners whose main income is from tourists, those who run the cattle boat trips to stingrays for cruise shippers etc. Wealthy property owners don’t need the income and don’t want covid so they would be the ones wanting to stay closed.
I’m retired with a heart condition so I have zero interest in allowing in tourists. Covid could be a death sentence for me so I’ve been self-isolating at home since 1st Sept. I order groceries online and have them put into my car at the store. That’s the only person I’ve spoken to in over a month now I have to live like a hermit for the unknown future.
And I’m not wealthy, I struggle to get by in a studio apartment with income from my savings.
If you are self isolating at home, then it really doesn’t matter if tourists come or not. Plus, remember, covid is already on island. It’s not like the tourists are bringing in something special.
Possibly the most idiotic comment of the year.
I’m actually not wealthy at all and I want the border to open. I would like to be able to travel to visit family and friends who I haven’t seen in 2 years. I have 3 shots, did all the right things. WTH, why shouldn’t I be able to see my friends and family?
Community transmission? 6 month quarantine for all. Close the airport! Or accept Covid been here undetected and in fact the vaccination programme is successful! It’s about a balanced view I guess?
What are you even saying?
It was obviously typed in after Sunday brunch and more drinking. Get drunk and it will make perfect sense.
Oh my days!!community transmission? Shut the airport! Put anyone in contact with infected into 6 month quarantine at least! Do this in case everyone on Cayman dies. Dig those mass graves! The end is nigh! Or Maybe accept Covid had always been here and we managed it really well? Now there is a Nobel thought!
I’m glad you took time away from dancing in front of the Government building to post this
Would you travel to the US for a Walmart shopping trip if there was a 14 day quarantine there? Probably not.
What if you only had 7 days for a holiday? Definitely not. You would choose another destination that fit into your travel timeline and did not have a quarantine period.
THAT is what the US travelers will do.
The island has a high vaccination rate. Vaccinated tourists will not be overflowing the hospital. Unvaccinated tourists still have to quarantine. Remember, tourists are not the only Covid carriers!!!
Just the facts. A person who wanted to travel was tested as per the rule book, he was +. Health services got involved and managed the situation, brilliantly I might add. Now, had our boating group not had him aboard said vessel, none would have been affected, but the system of pre flight testing showed it did function as intended . Airlines are announcing increased flight schedules to cities that have been off the board for 18 months. The US is opening to all vaccinated travelers. BA has added flights. Kx has added flights. There is not a set in granite guide book on managing the situation the world is currently in, but most places are now starting to move ahead in a positive direction. Cayman is included in the moving ahead part and all that are working hard to see that happen deserve commendation . Vaccination is key, for everyone, in every country , to see the moving ahead part in a positive direction. I apologize , but if you are an anti vaccination hold out, you are not a part of this positive direction . Exempted here are the folks who would otherwise be willing, but for what reason are unable.
Will the KX flights be on time
KX should stop changing flight schedules from/to the Brac, messing up Brackers Doctors appointments
He should not have been out and about to that extent after pre-flight testing!
Why not?
Just get vaccinated. Omg, this is not that difficult to understand. Your risk is low of getting serious illness if vaccinated.
If you are a work permit holder, get vaccinated. There is no way our Government wants to pay for your medical care that falls outside your crappy SHIC policy.
If you are looking to get life insurance, get vaccinated, or you will be rated, and face higher premiums.
Most of the people I personally know who are not vaccinated are either Caymanians or Jamaicans. Could be anecdotal, but as neither of those groups, I know too many for the statistical variation to not be at least partially true.
Where do you think your government gets the money?
I know a few cross fitters that are anti vax too! Too much muscle in the brain perhaps?
Multiple studies have shown athletes and enthusiasts who train at high intensity, can suffer from a drop in immune system response for 2 days after a high intensity prolonged workout.
While this demographic is very fit, they suffer much harder from normal flu and colds due to their weakened immune system.
An example of this is I’ve known 3 on island triathletes/ironmen/women that have been hospitalized with pneumonia in the years pre-covid.
This is all usually down to over-training
The Singapore Government reported the following today regarding deaths among fully vaccinated people (their population has a higher vaccination rate than we do):
“6 more cases have passed away from complications due to COVID-19 infection.[1] Of these, 5 were male Singaporeans and 1 was a female Singaporean, aged between 68 and 91 years. Amongst them, 2 had been unvaccinated against COVID-19, and 4 had been vaccinated….
https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/update-on-local-covid-19-situation_3_October_2021
Relevance?
Being vaccinated does not guarantee you’ll not die of Covid-19.
Some people won’t get full benefit from the vaccine due to health issues. Might be useful to know what health issues the vaxxed people who died had.
At least Singapore, unlike Bermuda, has the decency to publish the ages!
http://coronavirus.bernews.com/covid-charts-cases-deaths-by-age-group-2/
Here you go.
They also reported:
“Over the last 28 days, the percentage of local cases who were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms is 98.1%. 539 cases required oxygen supplementation and 55 had been in the ICU. Of these, 50.2% were fully vaccinated and 49.8% were unvaccinated/ partially vaccinated. 54 have died, of whom 29.6% were fully vaccinated and 70.4% were unvaccinated/ partially vaccinated.”
High risk groups are more likely to get vaccinated – vaccination doesn’t necessarily save them, but their odds are way better than if they were unvaccinated. If you wanted to do an apples to apples comparison on mortality between vaccinated ad unvaccinated, you would have to compare like groups; those over 50, those with co morbidities.
Does anyone know whether testing can be refused ?
I do not consent for my children to be tested.
It’s OK. Government, acting reasonably, can test them anyway.
Tell them to go ahead and try it.
Guess if you refuse it, they treat you as positive anyway. You get quarantined, cant get out until tested clear, and all your close contacts get the same treatment.
I have the freedom to choose whether or not to be tested.
Just like a DUI test…
And the gov has the freedom to treat you as a danger to society, as that’s what you are, and quarantine you until you test negative.
Hear hear – test the B.
Not if you become part of a contact tracing process. Do you have the freedom to drive while intoxicated and then refuse to be breathalyzed?
Actually you do. They just charge you with a different offence, refusing a breath sample. And you get disqualified for longer.
What we need is a decent legal precedent. So I do hope you happen to be in the situation, perhaps on a boat ride with other vaccinated individuals where you are required to be tested.
I will donate to your legal fee go fund me page.
The government is in a very difficult position. They must know that if they drop quarantine it will be convenient for some but others, both vaccinated and not vaccinated, will likely die. If they do not drop quarantine then parts of the business community will be unhappy.
Perhaps the best thing for them is to be honest and tell us how many they expect to die and why that is an acceptable loss? I am sure that most of us would like that information and would be able to process it objectively.
The difficulty is their incompetence
The unvaccinated should be the only ones in quarantine. They want limited human rights and house arrest, let them start with theirs. FREEEDOMM!!! … as Mel Gibson said.
Why is it that people keep linking vaccination to the control of spread ? They are completely unrelated and vaccinated people can spread the virus just as easily as someone unvaccinated.
Hence anyone with the virus or the potential to have caught it needs to be in quarantine- whether vaccinated or not.
CNS: The Atlantic – No, Vaccinated People Are Not ‘Just as Likely’ to Spread the Coronavirus as Unvaccinated People
I’m done fighting for people who continue to show me that I need to comply with their demands or they will resort to forcing me into a cage. There apparently is no discourse that can happen between people on my side of the isle and people on your side of the isle.
While I, someone who is unvaccinated who is probably much healthier than you, fights for the freedom of choice for everyone (including you) so that we can all be as free as possible, you treat me as some sort of sickness.
I am not sick but you seem to think so and you have justified treating me like some caged animal because I do not think like you think. Its the very same thing I have been saying for months now, that we need to be careful on the rhetoric we are using because assuming unvaccinated means sick will lead the people justifying more gruesome things out of irrational fear and you are a prime example.
“They want limited human rights…” This is exquisite, considering most unvaccinated are asking to just be left alone to carry out our lives, but it is you who can’t cope with living in the world with other people. You want our rights and freedom taken because we exercised choice and didn’t come to the same conclusion you did? Done with people like you.
I have the capacity to accept that not everyone believes what I believe but we all deserve the same freedom. You apparently disgust me and think I should live in a cage until I comply.
Those who aren’t afraid of the outside world and are sturdy enough to balance risk and responsibility should never have their freedoms taken. People like you who are so scared of the world can stay inside if you want, I won’t force you to if you want but don’t you dare come for me.
Keep pushing people into a corner and you give them all reason to fight back. Keep that in mind while you spout your nonsense.
Allow me to peacefully non comply.
I’m all for protesting what you believe, but if you’re potentially endangering the rest of us. NO
A person’s tolerance and kindness only extends as far as their convenience and stops where their fear begins. Always love the ‘but’ part in statements when people like to project themselves onto the moral high ground.
I’m all for standing up for yourself but… you are going against what I believe now so you need to stop. ‘I believe in freedom of choice but if you choose something I don’t like then you shouldn’t have the freedom’ <– This is how you sound to me.
What I'm also getting from you is, 'to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated, we should coerce the unvaccinated into taking the very same thing that didn't protect the vaccinated'.
Is that close to what you are asking? You don't feel safe enough after taking the vaccine that its fine to advocate for the exclusion of people based on a choice they made about injecting something into their body that didn't make you feel safe in the first place? Please run that by me again. If you still need everyone to be vaccinated in order for you to feel safe then you have more issues than the vaccine can help.
This is classic abuser logic. Your side is using aggression/coersion/force to get the other side to comply with your demands. The other side simply asks for you to leave them alone and don't force/coerce them into doing something they don't want. Only one side (yours) is taking to initiative to act on the other side. Your reasoning… "You're potentially endangering the rest of us".
"You made me do this… If only you would listen me.." said the man as he beat his wife senseless
You feel threatened by people trying to advocate for everyone to be able to choose what measures they do for themselves? That's threatening to you?
I try to be generous in my interpretation of what people say but time and time again your side is quick to ask the government to enact coercions and mandates that force other people to take part in something when it suits your fear and then you turn around and blame it on us saying we are endangering you.
You need to get it through your head that it is YOU that has the problem. No-one is advocating you don't take the vaccine and no-one wants to ban any vaccines but you are walking around talking about feeling potentially endangered. You have serious issues with your perspective.
If it wasn’t a highly transmissible disease, in which the life you are risking is not juts yours but others, I would agree with you. But its not. You inaction has negative consequences for others if you don’t accept the alternative to vaccination, which is limiting your exposure to others who do not have the luxury of choice about being vaccinated. Tough to to admit it I know, but you are being selfish.
I’m not the original poster, but the problem I have with coercing people to take the vaccine is the fact that data is now showing that after 3 or 4 months the ability of the vaccine to stop transmission drops to a negligible level. So unless we continuously receive boosters (which is not the plan for the general population at the moment), the vaxxers are actually just as dangerous as the anti-vaxxers after a time. So the majority of vaccinated people walking around are under an illusion that they are less likely to contract and transmit covid.
Now, the original poster has not said why he (or she) doesn’t want to take the vaccine but states that it’s because he has reached a different conclusion. Most people, say about 5 to 1, reach the opposite conclusion, which is that they would prefer to take a treatment that will lessen the likelihood that they will become seriously ill or die. Has the original poster made the wrong conclusion? Almost certainly. Should we be bullying him? No. Should we be forcing him? No. He should have the right to make the decision. Especially given that what we now know is that for the most part, he isn’t really more of a danger to you than anyone else.
CNS has been quick to correct people that say that vaccinated people transmit the virus so why are we imposing different rules on them? It now turns out that, after enough time has passed from the second jab, those people are actually correct. As much as we appreciate the moderation of stupid statements I think this is a reminder that we don’t really understand everything about the efficacy of the vaccine. Is it safe? I’d say it’s 99.999999% likely that it’s safe. But do we really understand exactly how effective it is?
I think people need to be reminded of the fact that things change incredibly rapidly. Right now we’re fighting about whether or not to change our laws to take a vaccine that, in 3 months or 6 months time, could easily have zero effect. It’s not at all implausible that a variant could emerge that manages to evade the current generation of vaccines. Delta was a game changer. Maybe Sigma or Omega will be as well. In which case, I wonder, is it worth it to force someone to take a vaccine with potential side effects (very rare, but in some cases serious) that may end up useless? Should we encourage them, because right now it provides legitimate benefits? Of course. Should they lose their residency or their job over it? I think reasonable people can disagree here. That said, reasonable people are in short supply these days.
All of which isn’t to say that it’s not right to try and correct misinformation, but frankly, the vaccine is not the silver bullet we wish it was. And I think we need to think very carefully about what we’re doing here in the name of science that, let’s face it, most average people aren’t capable of understanding.
@10:21
However “it” is not all about you and your individual rights. It is about the collective good of society, the health system.
A temporary reduction in freedoms in exchange for the rights and freedom of the collective is accepted by many (80%?)in most populations.
We, in “the free west” live incredibly ‘free lives’. A slight curbing of those freedoms during the pandemic is a minor inconvenience in my opinion. It a self-centred, highly individualistic society such as we live in the west, a little discomfort around our individual rights will likely help us appreciate how free we truly are.
The freedoms we enjoy were hard-won by our ancestors. They shouldn’t be yielded lightly.
It’s fascinating that you think a little “discomfort” as you cavalierly put it, will make me appreciate how free I am. What it makes me appreciate is how free I WAS before you took my freedom away.
We had a justified “temporary” restriction of our freedoms. In 2020. When it was an emergency and the health system was potentially at risk.
We are lucky, as a very rich country to have options. We should be taking our money and instead of seeding eco-funds we could be building specialised clinics for respiratory care. We could be ordering expensive treatments that are proven to work on covid patients. Why aren’t we doing these things? We don’t need three hour press conferences that say nothing. We need journalists to hold the government to account.
Has anyone in the media asked if we have monoclonal antibodies? How much oxygen we have? Have they been holding the HSA and Dr. Lee to the fire to give them specifics? That stuff saves lives. More than most of the mask theatre we are currently engaged in. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t take impose quarantines, take vaccines, try and social distance, and wear masks. I’m just realistic. The last two of those things won’t make much of a difference. The first two make a substantial difference.
What makes you think you have the right to force the vaccine on this guy? Why are you so sure it will make a difference? The fundamental right to decide what to put in one’s own body is a slippery slope. You act like this is an obvious choice, but it was equally “obvious” I’m sure to people when governments regularly experimented on people to benefit the collective good. Maybe gene editing will ultimately work to the benefit of society, but I’m sure some (maybe most?) people don’t believe it’s right to mess with nature.
Do you believe the government should be able to mandate that you gene-edit your fetus or baby for the benefit of society because if you don’t do it it might have use up hospital resources? Not so easy right? This is the logical extension of what you’re arguing and what this guy is arguing against.
This is the point. You’re wrong and he’s right. He might be wrong about the vaccine, sure. It’s probably worth taking and he’s probably wrong not to take it. But he’s arguing for his right to choose.
These are the principles our society is supposed to be based on.
For myself the slippery slope argument is fear based. We could go on.
The freedoms our ancestors fought for are still in place. Those same ancestors accepted the curbing of their freedoms during the Spanish Flu- aside from a 10-15% of ‘freedom fighters’ objecting to restrictions and infringements on their lives according to our local archives. Nowhere can I find that the rejection of restrictions by the small minority ‘preserved’ freedoms for all of society.
Governments put restrictions on us in many ways for the overall good of society- seatbelts, distracted driving, high taxes on cigarettes and alcohol (effectiveness could be argued), and yet a request to take a vaccine is this scary monster- and the cries of “my body my choice” are wailed.
I’m curious if the OP will then grant the same ‘freedom’ to a woman seeking an abortion. After all, it is my body, my choice isn’t it?
80% is not the figure to hinge acceptance on. We know for a fact that the rate was stuck at 60 something until the news of the community spread broke. Thus it’s fair to say that the recent boost in uptake is related to the fact that there’s community spread. If there was no community spread then the rate would still be staggering along.
I don’t care if your vaccinated or not, that’s your choice.
However goverment have decided that your choice directly affects my freedom.
The beef is not against each other, its with the government and its arbitrary vaccine requirements.
Wayne either mandate the vaccine for all, or just accept that the remaining unvaxed have made a personal choice and get on with opening up.
New Zealand has outlined their plan to re-start their tourism product in November requiring verifiable proof of vaccination and 14 day quarantine in order to keep their island Covid-free. Everything is selling out because of the demand from people to have a Covid-free experience.
I hope our Govt. follows this as well. We can introduce new tourism products for “winter escape” and target the right group, who are able to quarantine for 14 days (away from cold weather and possibly with fenced yards and/or pool and njoy the sunny weather) and then stay here for a few months.
No thanks. Don’t want to quarantine anywhere for 14 days when I can go to the next island and be free to enjoy freedom for 14 days +. I’m vaccinated and have learned to live life in the new world with covid around. I don’t mind wearing masks when I can’t social distance, but hell no when it comes to a quarantine.
You should go to another island then.
nz plan is nonsense…and they will be still dealing with covid in 18 months.
their vax rate is abysmal.
This has been my exact point for months now. We had something truly unique and valuable that we could have capitalised on.
14-day quarantine and tourism don’t go in the same sentence. If New Zealand really thinks that is a “plan” to re-start tourism they are horribly naive. Their idea of staying “Covid free” was our first clue to their cluelessness but this seals the deal.
From today’s New York Times:
Oct. 4, 2021
Updated 7:43 a.m. ET
AUCKLAND, New Zealand — For a year and a half, New Zealand has pursued a strategy of “Covid zero,” closing its borders and quickly enforcing lockdowns to keep the coronavirus in check, a policy it maintained even as other Asia-Pacific countries transitioned to coexisting with the viral threat.
On Monday, New Zealand gave up the ghost.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern acknowledged an end to the elimination strategy seven weeks into a lockdown that has failed to halt an outbreak of the Delta variant, announcing that restrictions would be gradually lifted in Auckland, the country’s largest city.
“We’re transitioning from our current strategy into a new way of doing things,” Ms. Ardern told reporters. “With Delta, the return to zero is incredibly difficult, and our restrictions alone are not enough to achieve that quickly. In fact, for this outbreak, it’s clear that long periods of heavy restrictions has not got us to zero cases.”
“What we have called a long tail,” she added, “feels more like a tentacle that has been incredibly hard to shake.”