Women file legal case over marriage refusal
Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden
(CNS): Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden, who were denied the right to marry after the General Register refused the couple a licence in April because they are in a same-sex relationship, have filed an application in the Grand Court for a judicial review of that decision. In the first case of its kind in the Cayman Islands, Day, who is Caymanian, and Bodden, who is British, are seeking a declaration from the court that the government acted unlawfully and they are entitled to be married. Day told CNS that their efforts to resolve the issue outside the court had failed.
She said that good faith attempts made to resolve matter amicably with the Cayman Islands Government, including a letter to Premier Alden McLaughlin last year and more recent correspondence about their plans to seek legal intervention, led nowhere.
“We have not received so much as an acknowledgement of receipt,” Day said. “Our effort to liaise with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office was unfortunately met with a disheartening degree of apathy, despite their recognition that our rights have been breached.”
Day, who is an attorney working in London for a well-known Cayman firm, is in a long-term relationship with her fiancée and wants to return to her native Cayman, where the couple and their daughter can settle. The couple want to be married here, but with the Cayman government’s failure to work towards a solution and legislate for same-sex unions, the women have now turned to the courts to pursue the wedding of their choice.
“I’d like my fellow Caymanians to put themselves in my shoes. I have a loving partner and a daughter, and in Cayman we have no means of our family unit having the legal recognition that it deserves for the sole reason that we are a same-sex couple,” she said.
“The practical implications of this is that, as a Caymanian, I am forced to live abroad with my family because my partner is not allowed to reside with me at home even if we were married abroad. Even in the event that my partner were to find a job and have a precarious residential status, we have no legal protections under the law that married heterosexual couples have available to them, and we are ultimately treated like second class citizens, deemed by the government as not ‘worthy’ of equality.”
Day explained that she and Bodden feel their only choice is to live abroad permanently or stand up for their rights and help end the discrimination and ostracism of the LGBTQ community.
“We have obviously chosen to take a stand, and we know that we are not standing alone and are very grateful for the overwhelming amount of support that we have received,” she added.
The legal documents spell out the grounds on which the women will fight their case, suggesting that the government is breaching several rights set out in the constitution, including the right to private and family life, the right to found a family, the right to freedom of conscience and the right not to be discriminated against.
Lawyers at local law firm McGrath Tonner, which is representing the couple, argue that the marriage law is not compatible with the Constitution and point to the denial of their right to marry being based on the religious beliefs of others, while their own beliefs are being denied.
“The secular institution of government must not without valid justification direct the way in which a citizen may manifest his or her beliefs,” the attorneys state in the judicial review application.
Among other arguments made in the legal claim, the lawyers said that the absence of the term ‘sexual orientation’ from the list of grounds in section sixteen of the Constitution, which deals with discrimination, is immaterial as it is covered by “other status” and it is self-evident that the couple is being discriminated purely on the basis of their sexual orientation.
In addition to expansive arguments on each of the rights that the couple have been denied as a result of the denial of a marriage licence, the JR application is supported by existing legal precedent from Bermuda and the UK to the European Court of Human Rights and the US Supreme Court.
To assist Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden in their legal fight, visit their Gofundme page.
Category: Local News
Good luck to them. Some people just can’t stand to see others be happy.
Get the government out of the marriage business, recognize civil unions only. Religious groups can do civil unions and call them marriages among themselves according to whatever rules they want.
While is is correct to say that the Constitution prevents discrimination, it also states at Section 14
14.—(1) Government shall respect the right of every unmarried man and woman of
marriageable age (as determined by law) freely to marry a person of the opposite sex and found a
family.
(2) No person shall be compelled to marry without his or her free and full consent.
(3) Nothing in any law or done under its authority shall be held to contravene subsection (1) to
the extent that the law makes provision that is reasonably justifiable in a democratic society—
(a) in the interests of public order, public morality or public health;
(b) for regulating, in the public interest, the procedures and modalities of marriage; or
(c) for protecting the rights and freedoms of others.
(4) Spouses shall be entitled to equal rights and shall be subject to equal responsibilities as
between themselves and as regards their children both during and after marriage, but this equality
of rights and responsibilities shall be subject to such arrangements or measures as may be agreed,
or as may be ordered by a court, in the interests of their children.
It seems to me that there is a conflict between Section 16 (2) and Section 14. Section 16 (1) and (2) state:
(1) Subject to subsections (3), (4), (5) and (6), government shall not treat any person in a
discriminatory manner in respect of the rights under this Part of the Constitution.
(2) In this section, “discriminatory” means affording different and unjustifiable treatment to
different persons on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other
opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, age, mental or physical
disability, property, birth or other status.
I suspect that the not only will the Ladies have to argue that the marriage law is incompatible with Section 16 but that Section 14 will have to be interpreted differently in light of European Case law. It’s going to be fascinating!!!
There’s actually no conflict. Section 14 is a positive, specific grant of the right to marriage to opposite sex couples, but it says nothing about same-sex couples. It merely says that government must allow opposite-sex couples the right to marry, but it doesn’t in any way prohibit same-sex marriages from being recognized as well.
What’s the conflict? How would it be disrespectful of “the right of every unmarried man and woman of marriageable age (as determined by law) freely to marry a person of the opposite sex” that two women were allowed to marry as well? The point that you seem to be missing here is that respecting the right of opposite sex couple to marry does not not equate to a prohibition against couple of the same sex to marry. For the avoidance of doubt, respecting a right does not mean a prohibition.
Will Divorce and Custody issues arrising from Gay Marriages being allowed become more complicated? Not all who marry, want to stay married. People do fall in and out of ‘love’.
there is a serious point here. Those homosexual Caymanians who get married abroad cannot get divorced in Cayman if the Law does not recognize homosexual marriage.
If Gay marriages are allowed in Cayman will existing Divorce Laws need to be changed too?
It’ll be like any other marriage and divorce. How could it be anymore complicated then it already is?
Why would they be any different from a heterosexual marriage?
3.12 am, the difference is in the definition of marriage according to the Cayman Islands constitution, but you already know that, right? So what’s your point, exactly – you don’t agree with the country’s constitution? Then talk to your MLA and try to effect a change. Good luck!
It’s amazing how many of us believe that the constitution says something it simply does not.
Is this the biggest threat or a threat simply put confronting the CI? Everyone is in a frenzy – fifty years ago women couldn’t vote and interracial marriage frowned upon. Today, it’s unthinkable to suggest that it should be the norm. The new generation will look back on this with astonishment. in fact, marriage as we know it might no longer exist. Cohabitees will just be sufficient
i finished with marriage! full stop…????
No to conducting gay marriage on island, yes to recognizing gay marriages and affording them the same benefits and protections as traditional couples.
That is a fair compromise I believe.
Why should there be a need for compromise? How about we ban all marriage on island so everyone has to leave island to be married. There’s no justification for discriminating against same sex couples in this manner.
By compromise I mean acknowledging the right of the gay married couple but not changing our stance on allowing the ceremony itself to be conducted here. The laws say we cannot discriminate against them and should allow them the same rights and protection as traditional couples. We can achieve that by recognizing the couple who has been legally married elsewhere, it’s their right to marry whomever they wish. But it does not mean that we have to allow the ceremony to be conducted here. I am not suggesting that we discriminate against them, however they will need to marry elsewhere. Once this is complete and they arrive here they will be treated equally.
That’s still discriminatory, though. Why should two Caymanians who love each other be forced to fly their friends and families to a different place just so they can get married?
But that’s….. dun dun dunnnnn… discrimination!
You fail to understand that not allowing us (homosexuals) to marry in our home country and forcing us to go abroad to marry is discrimination, point blank. Open your mind.
Just have civil partnerships in the Cayman Islands. The problem then goes away. You don’t have to have Gay Marriage but you do have to have either Civil Partnerships or Gay Marriage. By the CIG doing nothing, they are going to have the Court order it for them.
You’re nearly right, but the Court cannot legislate; it can only interpret the law (i.e. in this case, the Marriage Law and the Constitution). The Court must therefore determine whether the decision not to grant the marriage licence was lawful or not. If they determine it was unlawful, they would do so after concluding that the definition of “marriage” in the Marriage Law is breaching the Constitution. In that case, the Court has the power to read the Marriage Law with such modifications as are necessary in order to make the Marriage Law conform with the Constitution and, thereby, allow this couple to marry.
Any idea how they are going to get around the definition of marriage in the constitution?
Pretty sure that clearly states that Marriage is between couples of the opposite sex.
The constitution does not define marriage. This is why the marriage law is likely to be found unconstitutional.
Really? Which country’s constitution are you referencing?
The Cayman Islands Constitution. Read it carefully. I have. There is no definition of the term “marriage”.
Thank you for the clarification. Some confused souls actually believe that the courts can, indeed, legislate, and compel the “CIG” to alter the country’s constitution in order to conform to their views about who can marry whom. Ignorance is bliss?
But doing nothing is the Cayman way.
Pardon me, 12.48 pm, you are confused as to the extent of the powers of the courts. The courts cannot “order” the government to change the Constitution.
“Second class citizens” let me give you some advice Ms Day don’t return here if you think that’s an issue, that has been a reality here for sometime my dear! The government has never abided by the constitution when it come to us, why should you be and exception? Why should we have to give you funds to pay for your grievances with the government when we the people will have to pay for your court actions and cost against the government in essence we will be paying the bill for everything and that ain’t right or fair to us What about our rights???Why should we have suffer because you want to live good??
They don’t want to “live good”. They want to “live equal”.
When you reach the Pearly Gates use that argument why don’t you. I bet you call yourself a christian. Wow!
I can’t wait until more Moslems are allowed into the country and they set up Sharia laws. Just like they did in London. You’re right, everybody needs to enjoy their rights. Their bible called the Koran is older then the christian bible. Anyone think their human rights should be censored? Go ahead change everything to the world’s view. You’ll be sorry when its too late. I personally wouldn’t want to make a baby in this world now.
That is probably for the best
Oh dear, has Fox TV broken? lets go through this line by line:
i. I can’t wait until more Moslems are allowed into the country and they set up Sharia laws. So Muslim’s are already allowed in the Cayman Islands and guess what there is a Muslim society here…… Just because you have Muslims, doesn’t mean you have Sharia law.
ii. Just like they did in London. And Luton, and Bradford adn the UK still exists and the majority of Muslims use the normal UK Law. Guess what, Jews have their own courts as well which are equally bad…. never here that do you.
iii. You’re right, everybody needs to enjoy their rights. You are correct and your rights are not being infringed by Gay Marriage. No one is asking you to marry someone of your own sex.
iv. Their bible called the Koran is older then the christian bible. Nope, the Koran is younger than both the old and new testament. That’s just history.
v. Anyone think their human rights should be censored. Yes, Muslims are prevented from carrying out polygamy and stoning people in the UK. Sharia Law is not the Law in the UK. I personally think their practices in regards to the killing of animals is cruel.
vi. Go ahead change everything to the world’s view. I’m lost are you talking about Muslims or Gays here? Either way it doesn’t make much sense.
vii. You’ll be sorry when its too late. What when we can’t get bacon or when their are rainbow flags flying everywhere.
vii. I personally wouldn’t want to make a baby in this world now. I think we can all agree that you shouldn’t.
The Tenakh, the Jewish Bible, written in Hebrew, c 586 BC is the basis of the Old Testament. The Codex Sinaiticus, written in Greek on papyrus around c330-360 AD is the earliest known version of both Old and New Testament, which later became King James Version (1611) and more recent derivatives. The Qu’ran/Koran’s suras written in Arabic prose, were recorded c 609-632 AD (using our calendar). It’s very important to understand this timeline, for it’s the basis of most of the global conflict we continue to endure. At the heart of this: Muslims believe they have the most current version of God’s Will, since this scripture was, apparently, dictated to Muhammad by the archangel Gabriel after the earliest versions of the Christian and Jewish Books. None of these were widely available on Amazon back then, and only carefully selected people were allowed the privilege to learn how to read and interpret their messages.
Where you get 586 B.C. for the Tenakh? There is no scholarly consensus as to when the Jewish Bible canon was fixed: some scholars argue that it was fixed by the Hasmonean dynasty. Others say it goes older than that time.
The Torah, the first five books of the Tenakh have the oldest books along with the book of Job. And the Torah was put together way before it was developed as part of the Tenakh. These are the first scriptures that were preserved about 2000 years and found in Dead Sea scrolls.
Are you saying the New Testament (for Christians – which is idolatrous) or the Quran (for Muslims) are most reliable monotheistic writings???
Please dont be naive ????
They will never be “reliable” over the “FIRST” scriptures. Judaism or Noahide will always have the original teachings of monotheistic faith.
Is it always the case that a persons illiteracy is directly proportional to their abhorrent views?
Best of luck to the happy couple. They are brave to take on an injustice that the courts should make right. So sad that fear and prejudice have prevented any commentators from using their real names.
I cannot imagine standing in front of God and arguing about this. It will not end well. Anyway, it does not have my blessing and these girls and a whole lot more of us need to wake up while we still can.
Hebrews 9:27 King James Version (KJV)
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
I am indeed a sinner, but I refuse to thumb my nose at the Creator.
I cannot imagine standing in front of a fictional construct.
Apparently, God created everything. She also knows everything. Therefore, God created this situation and knew what she was doing when she did so. Since God not only intended for this judicial review to happen (indeed she designed and executed the plan personally), it would be hypocritical of her to get cross with anyone. I’m sure we can all agree that God is not a hypocrite so everything should work out fine. Just as God wanted. What a relief. Good old God.
You cannot imagine it because it cannot possibly ever happen.
OK. Well as God does not exist, you don’t have to worry about that do you. It does not have your blessing….. everyone stop… it doens’t have anonymous 11.04 blessing.
if their is a God, why are you thumbing your nose at him but rejecting his creations?
11:04pm 21/06/2018 so its ok when a husband can beat his wife or cheat on her? God accepts that??? What they are doing isn’t hurting anyone, so get your head out of the sand. Are they living in your house? Are you paying their bills. One of them is a lawyer, I hate to ask what you do for a living. I think you should worry about yourself and relationship before judging other people!
No to gay marriage taking place on island, yes to recognizing gay couples that were legally married elsewhere and providing them with the same benefits as a traditional couple.
Just wanted to update you, there is a same-sex wedding taking place today at the Ritz Carlton, just thought id let you know that this is the 7th one taken place on island. They bring great amounts of money to Island that contributes to our economy and provides more jobs to our local people.
I am married woman with 2 beautiful kids, born and raised in Cayman. I attend church every Sunday, but I believe in love and that’s what I see when I look at these two courageous women.
Love does not give me room to criticize you or even judge you, I support you and encourage people of Cayman to do the same. Live and let live.
God is love!
Beautifully said.
My predictions for this situation
-They will get vilified locally, by the Government, MLAs, the Churches and the general public (this has already begun)
-They will win the case, because their case has merit while the opposing side’s case is based on opinion, personal religion and misinformed belief that the bible is the law of the land here
The CIG will appeal the ruling and it will get held up in the courts, meanwhile swearing publicly to defend “christian traditions” to the no doubt outraged Caymanian populous (especially the 45-60 year old voting bloc that is the majority of the vote in Cayman’s elections and a necessary win for reelection)
– The CIG will attempt to change the relevant areas in the constitution to allow for legal discrimination along with using this as a campaign issue (Anthony Eden has already proved it can work, no real campaign, no debates just his ” I will defend christian traditions BS” ( we have seen how the CIG regards the Constitution they approved less than 10 years ago, any sections that stand in their w
alternatively
– The CIG will attempt to play both sides with the “separate but equal” Civil unions/partnerships legislation (we saw how well that worked in Bermuda)
All the hate comments are coming from those that support LGBTQ ..LMNOP+. I thought all gays are loving. I guess not. They love everyone except the Christians. Hmmmm!!!! They r the first ones to say SHUT UP and You are a fool and Bigot. Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love when the LGBT+ LMNOP quote the Bible. I thought they didn’t believe in the Bible so why are they quoting the Bible and they don’t believe in it . You pick here u pick there without knowing the full context. Lol!!!!!
Christians love gays that’s y they talk u about the gospel. They want u to go to heaven. I think that is loving that they want u to go to heaven.
The Bible told me that I hate God and I’m a enemy of God because I’m a sinner and I’m deserve Hell. But the Bible also showed me a Savior and I don’t have to go to Hell.
Seriously, you are moaning about LGBT supporters picking and choosing parts of the bible… i hate to tell you this, the bible contradicts itself on lots of things. It is full of odd things. Christains constantly pick and choose stuff from the bible to support their arguments….
I hope this doesn’t come as too much of a shock to you:
There are a profound amount of gay Christians in the world, and here in the Cayman Islands, as well as LGBT who follow other religious denominations. Further, a little research on your part might disclose a generally global change toward equality and acceptance within the religious bodies.
There doesn’t need to be “straight” prayer and fellowship, just prayer and fellowship for all, or neither if that is your particular choice.
I endorse your right to your own religious views, your right to have none, as well as personal equality within our society. Why would you choose any differently for anyone else?
I’m bi-sexual..I should be able to marry both my girlfriend and boyfriend..Is there anything to stop from doing so in Cayman?
CNS: While I suspect you are not bisexual and are trying to make a point, the current marriage law would prevent you from marrying the person of the same-sex. If this law changes, then if you wanted to marry you would have to choose between them because it would still not allow polygamy. The tiresome slippery slope argument that if you allow same-sex marriage, then why not polygamy is made by people who refuse to understand the issue: non-heterosexual people want equality with, not more than, heterosexual people, which is the chance to marry the person of their choice.
What a moronic thing to post. Thank you CNS for saving us all from having to reply.
The tiresome attack on the slippery slope argument is made by people who refuse to understand the issue: polygamists want equality with, not more than, monogamous people, which is the chance to marry the people of their choice.
CNS: Ironically, you’ve used the slippery slope argument in the most tiresome way possible. Polygamy is not a sexual orientation; it is a cultural and/or religious custom – you are confusing civil law with human rights. How many people you can marry is a question of civil law – it is legal in some societies but not in ours. The right not to be discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation is a human right, recognised by international convention.
Thumbs up for CNS!
Dear CNS, same sex marriage is not a widely agreed human right. It is not a right under the European Convention on Human Rights or the US Constitution for example. There are no binding UN resolutions in favor of it either. So what international convention are you talking about that applies to marriage.
CNS stated “The right not to be discriminated against on the basis of sexual orientation is a human right, recognised by international convention.”. They did not refer to marriage. In any event, however, this case is clearly about interpretation of the Cayman Islands Constitution. It is not about application of the European Convention on Human Rights or other international laws. The Cayman Islands Constitution prohibits discrimination. It does not prohibit same sex marriage, and all local laws must conform with the Constitution. The Constitution has superiority over the Marriage Law.
I’m very proud of you both Chantelle and Vickie. And will support however I can.
This is not about beliefs, religious or not. It is about the law. Good luck ladies. I am rooting for you.
It should be illegal challenging crystal clear laws that intelligent people have put in place.
See slavery, segregation and the holocaust for clear examples of why that is an immoral thing to say.
It was once legal to beat your wife or to keep people out of universities based on their skin color. were those good laws, or perhaps antiquated ones that needed to be challenged and changed with the times?
How stupid are you?
The Constitution overrides all legislation. Thus, the marriage law is actually incompatiable with the rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights.
It should also be illegal that a citizen of these islands be discriminated against in her own country, in 2018.
Wake up Cayman , they aren’t going to hurt any of you , these are young people in love and they have been for many years now , this is ridiculous , both these ladies are my friends and they are good people that just want to live at home with their extended families .Makes me wonder what damn century do we live in ? SMH .
I think a lot of people posting against this are not actually people who can vote… so if you are Caymanian, speak up! The majority of gay and lesbian people I know on this island are CAYMANIAN! Stop discriminating against your own! They are Caymanian, where are their rights? ahahahaha see what I did there?
Discrimination against ANYONE is wrong. forget “your own” or “expat” or that “go back to your country” crap! these are two human beings involving human rights. Period.
Duh! You’re someone who shouts all lives matter at a BLM rally huh?
funny how LGBT wants to get married and we straight people running from it??? i single straight man and i dont wanna marry anyone……as far as i concerned, it a financial contract nowadays!!!????????
LOL!
As a married man, I don’t see why gay people shouldn’t have to suffer too.
Yawn. Same joke different thread. If you’re in a miserable marriage I would suggest you seek counsel and divorce. Not everyone is unhappily married.
I’m female and have been in a long term relationship now a few years. I have no desire to get married. In fact I don’t understand why so many people place all this value on marriage. If I’m done, I just wanna say it’s over and that be it. We can work our co-parenting and go our separate ways romantically.
True, but let them have the choice.
What is happiness? Is happiness, happiness as long as you’re happy?
I disagree with people who say, “do what makes you happy”.
Reasons why:
1) a man wants to cheat on his wife because it makes him happy. Should the man follow what his Heart feels and go on to commit adultery? Remember it makes him happy.
2) A 40 year old man wants to marry a 9 year old male or female, should the man be able to marry that child? Remember he wants to be happy!
3) Hitler was happy killing Christians, gays, Jews, handicap kids. The Allies stopped Hitler from being happy and what he thought what best for his country. Does that make the Allies evil for stopping Hitler from being happy?
These two ladies are fighting to be happy. They want (marriage) equality.
Who will be next? It will open the the doors to everything. Incest marriage. Equality for everyone. Let moms and fathers marry their sons and daughters and vise versa.
This will lead to death. our hearts want what is evil.
Pride leads to destruction. Pride brings down family a community and a nation. So happiness is not happiness after all. Our hearts are wicked. There is a reason why God gave us 10 commandments and gave us Jesus.
Shut up! Jesus Christ you are dumb.
To the person who wrote the above statement, I hope to see you at church on Sabbath (Saturday) and not Sunday based on the 10 commandments. Please do not try to justify your Sunday keeping, cause that was not changed by God but by Man.
My point to you…. start living what you preach.
Regarding Hitler – here’s one you wont here Christians talk about….the Inquisition.
Spanish Inquisition?
Estimates of the number killed by the Spanish Inquisition in 1478, have ranged from 30,000 to 300,000.
Some historians are convinced that millions died. But Christians wont touch that subject they prefer to pretend it never happen or they are too focus only on what they pastor teach them and not do research on the history of Christianity.
Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden I am happy for you and proud to say I am a CAYMANIAN straight man and my family and I would love to welcome same sex marriages in our community as we see people for who they are and not who they sleep with.
We are all sinners and in need of the Savior Jesus. We have broken all of his commandments. That’s the point of the statement. But our pride is in the way and we are blind. History has proven this.
Hitler was not a Christian by the way.
Hitler was born to a practising Catholic mother, and was baptised in the Roman Catholic Church. In 1904, acquiescing to his mother’s wish, he was confirmed at the Roman Catholic Cathedral in Linz, Austria, where the family lived.[feel free to look that up]
Most importantly Bless up Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden!!! We want a huge Wedding!!
Notice I said Jesus after the 10 commandments. Why? Because God knew we wouldn’t keep them so He sent us a savior.
and how many commandments are laws in Cayman?
Pretty sure there are no laws against “coveting thy neighbours ass”
It’s funny how people didn’t say yes or no the questions. All they said was shut up.
So u people actually agree they should have incest weddings and 40 year olds should marry 9 year olds. Equality for all.
I am a sinner that is why I turned to Jesus. He is the only person that can save me from Hell and the judgement that which is coming shortly.
CNS: I imagine that people didn’t strictly answer your questions because your questions are mind-blowingly nuts. But since you seem to actually need an answer: Obviously I cannot answer for everyone but I can say with some confidence that all sane people who support same-sex marriage do not believe that incestuous marriage or marriage involving children should be allowed.
On your wider point of “do what makes you happy”, sane people include the caveat that doing what makes you happy does not hurt someone else. So, for example, sex with children and marrying children hurts those children, In fact, in hurts them so badly that we look upon this as one of the most egregious crimes there is. That is why in modern Western society we not only condemn this morally but we all agree that it should be illegal and people who do this are locked away in jail.
Cheating on your spouse can hurt that spouse emotionally, but while this is treated harshly in some societies, in this society it is not. If it was, half the adult population in Cayman would be behind bars. It is basically regarded as an issue between adults and the state should stay out of relationships unless physical violence or theft or some other crime is involved.
I’m sure I am not alone in thinking that having to explain that murdering people, let alone the slaughter of millions, is wrong because it hurts them is just a waste of time if you can’t see that for yourself. If killing people makes you happy, you are generally regarded as criminally insane.
Same-sex marriage is not in these categories because it makes people happy without hurting anyone, otherwise known as ‘none of your business’. Or do you think that happiness generally should be frowned upon?
Should heterosexual couples not get married because marriage is simply about procreation and nothing to do with happiness? Or is it just same-sex couples that should not be allowed the chance of happiness because you want to impose your morals on their lives?
Thank you CNS! You’re correct! The argument that incest/child rape is anywhere near the same as two of age consenting adults marrying is too insane to comment back. People who believe that are far to gone in their ignorance that nothing will change their hateful ways.
But they do practice this in other parts of the world.
No country practices child rape and incest!!!! Are you insane?!
Like the US, where it is legal for girls as young as 12 to marry 70 old men in most states, especially all dem Christian red states.
Yep, marry underage girls has been legal in the US since it was founded, but adultery is a crime still.
What’s wrong with incestuous marriage?
Oh dear. It’s difficult to know where to start.
1) Marriage is not a Christian idea. Just as you can’t claim the Pyramids as Christian nor can you claim marriage.
2) The Ten Commandments are quite wicked, no banning slavery or rape. They are hardly a great starting point.
3) the hero in the new fable that you place so much weight on, sad love your neighbor and never mentioned homosexuals. It probably wasn’t important to him, so why is it important to you.
Killing someone because I’m a sicko and that gives me happiness versus me marrying someone because I love them and that gives me happiness are two completely different scenarios.
I don’t mean to be blunt, but your argument is invalid. Apples to oranges.
1:05 you should be embaraased to make such thoroughly ignorant comments!
The ‘Christian’ argument to justify the bigotry against homosexuals is the more shameful one. There is nothing Christian – whatsoever – to deny equal legal and human rights to homosexuals. The argument is based on a small handful of passages of the Old Testament that call homosexual acts an abomination, and other such things. These three passages are of course joined by;
– Six times as many verses dedicated to commanding man to not eat shellfish. It goes into great detail actually, anything that isn’t a fish with gills is basically forbidden. (Leviticus 11:9-12 et al.)
– The command that rapists must be punished by paying 50 shekels of silver to the father of the rape victim, and then marrying her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
– The command that any woman who is not a virgin when they get married must be stoned to death. And if they are a virgin, then they must be submissive to their husbands for the rest of their lives, never ask another man a question, be silent in church… there’s a lot on this, ladies. (Deuteronomy 22:21)
– A preposterous amount of verses dedicated to instructing you which people you could own as slaves, instructions for how you should treat them, how they can earn their freedom, etc ad literal nauseam. (start with Exodus and work your way from there)
– The command that if you see your neighbor working on the Sabbath, you have to straight up murder them. Immediately. (Exodus 31:14)
If you’re gonna cherry pick the anti-homosexual parts of the OT, then you own all of these and many more cruel-to-the-point-of-ridiculous sections too.
Jesus never once talks about homosexuality. If it is so fundamental to Christianity, he might have mentioned it. The fundamental message I remember from my Christian upbringing was one of love. Love your brother, be your brother’s keeper. It is unquestionable that WJWD (What Jesus WOULD do) is embrace and love homosexuals like all the other types of ‘different’ people that he teaches us to stop hating, and instead start loving, understanding and supporting.
Jesus warned against false prophets and false teachers, and the Christian leaders who continue to misrepresent the word of Christ to their followers are particularly disgusting. Any genuinely-devout Christian who argus against homosexual rights should be petrified for their soul, and should start praying for forgiveness for the harm their false words, hatred and bigotry have caused. I cannot imagine anything more un-Christ-like.
Amen!
An example of taking Bible texts out of context to condemn Bible teachings and support a gay lifestyle.
You misinterpret Deuteronomy 22, and the prohibitions on the Sabbath and diet pertain solely to Jewish people – not you nor me.
*This is just how biased or misled people misquote texts and condemn themselves. But God will be your judge and He has the last say.
Moreover, the commenter equates Deuteronomy 22:28-29 with Rape. The text has nothing to do with rape. Try interpreting the text in its language and cultural context, you get a different message – not a victim of rape. Note: the passage read”if they are found” out. Thats the key phrase. They both consent
Wow, the Christians and their Christianity on full display. Never have a I seen a more hateful set of people.
That’s the problem with you supporters that the minute you have a different opinion or a differing view on anything you are branded hateful or racist or unchristian just because you believe have some world given right to determine what or who is right and what is wrong. That is why you will always get resistance and push back with your loud and aggressive and obscene views and opinions.
or maybe just maybe the people braned as hateful or racist or unchristian are branded as such because those are the traits they are displaying
Just a thought
Just a sec anonymous 11.54, aren’t you saying that you have a given right to determine what is right and wrong based upon your belief in a book? How is that any different to what you are accusing people of? Who are you to say what is and what is not obscene?
Your book has been used to justify:
i. Murder.
ii. Slavery.
iii. Racism.
Gay Marraige will not end the world. It is not a slippery slope. If it brings about the destruction of a fable…. so be it. The fable wasn’t pretty strong in the first place.
Clearly you haven’t been to the Middle East. HAHA!
People who are happy to live in the past should not get in the way of those who will live in the future. You will get run over. Live and let live. Or not. Your choice. Unless giving another person a choice is not your thing.Then your ability to choose also gets taken away.
Ladies your fight is very encouraging for other same-sex couples here in Cayman. Thank You ! So many have left home as there were no other options and your fight give hope. So many have been shut out by family for being gay and it continues to happen. It should never have to come to having to fight to be with the person you love. Cayman let’s be better than this. Gay Caymanians should be valued just as any other Caymanian ! Mr. Premier Sir it’s your time to Represent ALL Caymanians !
Love is Love !
The majority of Cayman is behind you! Good luck girls !
That’s what you think! 8:51am
It’s what I know.
Of course the majority of Cayman is with them thats because the majority of Cayman are no longer Caymanians. Where the majority comes from they have seen so much of this its a part of life
So I don’t get it, are you for or against? That was such a vague comment.
So true, @ 11:08 pm
Wishing Chantelle and Vickie the best of luck in this.
Not excited to read the inevitable hate speech of the most despicable kind clothed in religion in opposition however.
The headline describes the issue clearly as “WOMEN” !!!
How will the human race survive through the inability to procreate if same sex marriage is allowed. The very thought of same sex marriage is an aberration, and should not be allowed to dominate society as it is doing since it is unnatural.
Time to put this madness where it belongs i.e. in the trash and quit putting it in people’s face.
Um, Vickie and Chantelle have a child…
They have a child that they adopted. She’s beautiful and an amazing little lady!
And I bet she grows up in a loving environment and becomes a wonderful citizen of Cayman and the world unlike these feral little monsters that are being produced nowadays in Cayman by wurtless tramps with no self respect and useless men all of whom happen to be heterosexual so…”normal” and approved by our deadbeat Christian population which happily is gradually dying out with the passing of years.
I think we need to put you in the trash i.e. where you belong. After all not every woman is a lesbian and not every man is Gay. Just because you are now you feel that mankind with cease to exist with you, no bobo.
First off, it wouldn’t be in anyones face if they were able to legally marry because they wouldn’t have to freaking talk about it all the time! Secondly, not everyone is gay. I’m sorry you have gay tendencies and are trying to hide it because of your religion. I personally am straight and have many gay friends whom I support, that doesn’t mean I have to be gay. You’re so ignorant.
Please just stop with this ridiculous argument. There will still be plenty of straight people willing to procreate…allowing same sex marriage will not in any way change this. Note also that may same sex couples (including this one) actually DO have children.
Keep your hate speech and narrow minded disgusting views to yourself. You are in the minority and that is something to thank god for!
At last someone has said the truth. Marriage is only about procreating. It’s about time we stop people who are too old to marry. I have always thought.. what’s the point if you can’t have children. Equally, all marriage should automatically end at the age of 60 or so. No point in them being married either. Quite frankly, if you are not spitting out children every couple of years your marriage should also automatically end.
Marriage is a contract, in it’s simplest terms. It is not owned by an imaginary person in the sky. Marriage existed pre Christian times, you cannot claim it as yours
Says dazed and confused….
Yes… i’m dazed and confused by the clearly ridiculous views exposed by Christians (or so called Christians) on this website.
@ dazed and confused
Not everyone with a view is claiming to be Christian.
Stop generalizing just because people don’t agree with you.
You’re so right. We should stop infertile people marrying immediately. And women should be required to divorce immediately on menopause. We should also put an immediate stop to adoption. This madness must end!
Bring back the lol button, obviously some who click have no irony meter lol
There are too many people in the world already, and there are other ways to ‘procreate’ or even better, adopt children that are needing a home. However this arguement is rediculous as they already have a child. So, if that is your argument to oppose, thank you for being ignorant and showing everyone what the minds of the opposition look-like all while not making a point. Lol.
You and the other people opposing this should worry about yourselves and your lack of acceptance for others. It’s not for you to judge, or to decide the fate of the human race.
OK, so there are nearly 8bn of us, many of whom cannot be fed, even here. Your argument is hog wash, we have seriously over procreated to the point of exhausting all reserves…is that God’s will or are you a muppet?
uneducated comment here. “we” have seriously over procreated” Who has? There is only one country I can think of that waste food as if it is going out of style. That country keeps many other countries in poverty so it can live its glamour lifesyle.
“How will the human race survive…”
How does the human race survive people who choose not to marry or have children at all?
I’m fairly confident that allowing these two women equal rights will not suddenly stop everyone else from procreating.
They are not asking for everyone else to stop procreating.
Oh yes how ever will the human race go on if 3% of the population marry someone of the same sex??? Do you think that legalizing same sex marriage will turn all people gay and therefor result in a swift halt to procreation?? Don’t worry, your still allowed to have sex with your opposite sex spouse and have a child if the law is passed. Breath a sigh of relief…. Let me guess your still against it for some other crazy reason?
So your point is if gay marriage is allowed everyone will become gay and heterosexual marriages will disappear? And that no one has babies unless they are married to boot? Well I have good news for you. Even if all that came to pass the human race could adult survive using IVF – a gay man doesn’t have to marry a woman let alone have sex with her to get her pregnant.
You should definitely not procreate.
Not this foolishness again? people living in poverty, homes being foreclosed, govt charging citizens $10,000 dollars for a licensed plate designed to spy on them, Corruption in our govt at the highest levels which is eating away at the very fabric of our society. Our values and rights being overwhelm or no longer valid because others who have come here believe they now dominate and control society. What about the discrimination going right here???? what about our legal rights Gofundme gofundme needs to used to protect our environment from the severe damaged being done to it by developers and this waste minded not our island population we have now residing here. Not some legal fight costing us money to challenge because some want to impose their lifestyle on others.
6:17am I think you have posted on the wrong thread… Seems you may have put too much moonshine in your coffee.
No one is trying to get you to marry someone of the same sex.
So true.
Chantelle is Caymanian. Her values are homegrown. Stop pretending this is some issue from abroad that doesn’t impact us here in Cayman.
Plenty of gay Caymanians in hiding
Did you write this at 3 AM in a rage like Donald Trump on the toilet?
MAGA! you irrelevant twit.
Pretty relevant considering Trump is hateful and so is the ranter.
Trump is a strong reflection of America. After-all, they did vote for him.
It’s actually harder watching him as President than it is for him to be President.
So you hate pretty much everybody equally or just your people in Government? Why not do something about it instead of complaining on this thread? Too much work? Afraid of what might happen to you? That’s why nothing gonna change.
“Not some legal fight costing us money to challenge because some want to impose their lifestyle on others.”
The obvious solution would be to stop imposing your lifestyle on others.
Most agree that societies can address multiple issues at once. Challenging one injustice does not prevent anyone from challenging other injustices.
If you feel a gofundme should be started for environmental issues then…maybe…START ONE
The constitution is clear and should be respected.
Agreed. The Constitution clearly states that the government cannot discriminate in the application of its laws and guarantees everyone the right to a private and family life. We should respect that and allow these two to marry.
Is there anything in the Cayman constitution that states a Right to marry people of the same gender . If that was the case the topic of same sex marriage wouldn’t be a debate today.
The Constitution does not define marriage, does not prohibit same-sex marriage and requires EVERYONE to be treated without discrimination, including on the basis of sexual orientation. I hope this answers your question. To be clear, the answer to your question is YES, and that is what the Grand Court will say.
The Constitution might not define what marriage is but the Marriage Law does. Read it.
The Marriage Law is subordinate to the Constitution. Where you have a written constitution, that written constitution is supreme and all other laws must conform to it.
And if a domestic law is incompatible with the Constitution, that law is invalid, as the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Finish high school.
The Constitution supercedes all other Laws. If an individual law is at odds with a provision in the Constitution, then the individual law is non-Constitutional , and was itself unlawfully passed. The LA can’t break the provisions of the constitution.
“The Constitution clearly states that the government cannot discriminate in the application of its laws”
Good luck with your quest girls. The bible bashers will quote from the book that was written 400 years after the event as justification to deny you the right to same sex marriage. All the best
Wait a second, ladies ????
The majority in your LGBT camp want their rights protected, but at the same time, they want to undermine the rights of others in the process – the rights of children, employers, employees, parents, and religious people.
How we know this is the end of your overeaching demands, and what is the EXCHANGED for us?
How does allowing Vickie and Chantelle the right to marry and allowing their child the right to have the protections of her parents’ union being legally respected impact anyone else’s rights in any way? Even if you don’t like the idea, you don’t have a right to be free from discomfort, and even if you did, that would not trump their family’s right to a private and family life free from government discrimination.
Please clarify how other people’s rights are undermined by same sex marriage. For the avoidance of doubt – there is no ‘right’ to spew hate-filled vitriol at others whose decisions have no impact whatsoever on your life.
I’m in the middle of writing a book. I’ll give you a free copy. It’s called, “Grammar for grownups”.
That’s “grown-ups”.
The misspelling was intended
How is granting the lgbt community equality undermining you or any other subset of the community? Your discrimmination is the same as suggesting that people don’t deserve equality based on their gender or skin colour. Educate yourself in the hopes of expanding your narrow minded views and bringing yourself into the 21st century.
In order to concede to a Caymanian who is unfairly denied the same rights as you already have………….. you want something in exchange? SMH
Can you kindly explain HOW IN THE WORLD the fact that these two ladies who love each other get married affects the rights of anyone????
Chantelle I am so proud of you and Vickie!
Kudos to you both for your bravery and for living true to yourselves!
Behind you all the way!
cue the self proclaimed, self righteous, children of the one and only god (amongst the other 4000 gods) in 3…2….1….
Go for it girls!
Good luck ladies! Love is love.
LGBTQ. Hmmmm, does the G stand for ginger?
I’ve nothing against homosexuals marrying, but gingers, that’s just too much.
How very blondeist of you! Never get this sort of gingerism from a brunette
*sits back with popcorn for when the Bible thumpers who claim to be the victims here arrive”
Let me just shortcut the inevitable comments:
Someone will say something religious. Someone else will talk about a sky fairy.
Someone will say this is an expat issue. Someone else will point out Chantelle is Caymanian.
Someone will say there’s no such thing as gay rights. Someone else will make the obvious case that these two women are being discriminated against.
Ten people will make nonsensical slippery slope arguments, wrongly equating homosexuality with pedophilia, bestiality, or not wearing a shirt to dinner.
Can we just save ourselves a ton of time and let these people who love each other get married and come back to Cayman so that their family can live in peace?
And no, Whodatis, that is neither a workable nor sensible solution… no matter how many times you say it.
First I want to point out that there isn’t a sky fairy. It is our Lord and Savior the Flying Spaghetti Monster and he loves us all equally with his noodly appendages. And secondly in regards to cutting Whodatis off like that… ROFLMAO!!!
No other comments are needed after this summary. Classic! LOL
This comment saved me a lot of typing
Diogenes
I hope you think of your life partner as often as you obsess over Whodatis.
(smh)
– Whodatis
Seems like I was spot on, but that didn’t stop the dummies.
Shame on leaders, bury your heads in the sand as always.
Come on Cayman grant them their marriage license, what two consenting adults do should be their business. Look at all the failed marriages of heterosexual couples. Give them a chance, I as a Caymanian don’t believe in discrimination of any kind. So Mr. Premier now is the time for you to stand up and be counted.
Best wishes for a speedy victory, Chantelle and Vickie! There’s no question in my mind that you should be entitled to reside with your family in the place of your heritage.
Love conquers all. It is time to see the true strength of the Caymankind culture and an end to discrimination and segregation, which is so often shielded by religious teachings. Look deeper than those teachings, because people are born to love and show compassion, they are not born to hate. At the end of the day, no one loses here; everyone wins.
Don’t you just love these people who give a “thumbs down” to a message which is all about love. If any of you are doing this because of your religious beliefs: shame on you. Jesus was all about love. He must be so disappointed with anyone using his teachers to go against love between two people.
Thou shalt not question the thumbs.
So primitive that the leaders of your country behave like that … very third world … imaging what they do next …
Third world conservative country rather than liberal BS first world… this is why we love Trump!
Yeah, a man who has been married three times, cheated on his wives multiple times, has listful thoughts about his own daughter, but at least he isn’t gay. Great example of Christian conservatism.
At some stage the Cayman Islands Government will no longer be able to discriminate against members of the LGBTQ community. Thank you for being bold and brave, Vickie and Chantelle. All the best with your battle. You have more support from the community here than you may know. PRIDE!
Please do not give up.
The world needs people like you.
This is not love! Two people of the same sex banging each other. And trust me, the world that believes in Democratic don’t need these people. Why? Because by not having babies, the communist and chinese will overrun us. It will be disaster if all like America, the Uk, and France dont grow up, beef up their armies, and have more children! A total disaster!
Two straight people banging each other resulting in an unwanted child isn’t love either. Now, please do us all a favour and crawl back under your rock.
I don’t even think anyone should respond. You’re too stupid to even try to explain anything to.
Deliberate trolling post looking for reaction. Not to be taken seriously.