Churches to push anti-gay marriage stance
Cayman Ministers Association representatives (L-R) Bishop Nicholas Sykes, Rev Torrance Bobb and Pastor Alson Ebanks
(CNS): Local church leaders representing various Christian denominations, including Anglicans and Seventh Day Adventists, are putting aside their religious differences and uniting on a campaign to promote what they see as the biblical basis for family life in the Cayman Islands in a stand against “alternative lifestyles” and same-sex unions in particular. The church leaders are jointly spearheading an initiative “to raise awareness of biblical teachings” and an education programme that starts in September with an island-wide rally at the Lions Centre.
Describing it as a platform for promoting traditional values and fearful of the “efforts to change cultural values”, the ministers and pastors involved said the religious community had been slow at coming together to promote what they are doing already with their individual congregations.
Pastor Alson Ebanks, deputy chair of the Cayman Ministers Association and senior pastor of the George Town Church of God Chapel, said there was a pressing need for a collaborative effort. “The time has now come; God has allowed us to come together to work collectively,” he said.
Although the church leaders spoke about a decline in general of “Bible-based values”, their concern over what they repeatedly referred to as a movement “to effect cultural changes in Cayman from outside the territory” and alternative lifestyles appears to be focussed on the emergence of the debate locally about the rights of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community.
“This external thrust may be described as ‘cultural colonialism and ideological imperialism’ that is being imposed yet again on Caribbean societies, as a sort of extension of what occurred in slavery,” Pastor Ebanks said. “And slavery was very much an anti-family establishment,” he added, making no comment on the Old Testament sanctioning of slavery.
He maintained that the Christian influence in western culture was being eroded and suggested the moral consensus among civilized western societies had come from his religious perspective, a view supported by the local Anglican representative.
“What we are seeing today in the West is a huge collapse of the Christian basis for society,” said Bishop Nicholas Sykes, rector of St Alban’s Church of England, adding that people felt it would not happen here but it has. Sykes said the question for the church was whether the world would go in the direction of a “sort of immoral morality” and take Cayman with it, or if action worldwide may stall this thrust against Christianity.
With that in mind, the pastors said the local church community aimed to promote a return to biblical values, starting with the September campaign.
Although they claimed they are not confining their concerns to any one aspect of departure from traditional, Bible-based family values, it is clear their target is not systemic poverty, inequity and injustice, violence against women or even the arms trade and war, but the collapse of what they perceive as traditional marriage and the emergence of gay rights.
“Alternative lifestyles include the disintegration of traditional marriage due to the rising divorce rates,” said Pastor Ebanks. “We have been talking about that for a long time.”
Saying he believes that the alternative lifestyle umbrella includes pre-marital and extra-marital intimacy as well as same-sex unions and paedophilia, he raised the alarm that “some of these alternative lifestyles are right there in our pews”.
Pastor Jeff Jefferson, minister for the largest Adventist church here, said that the wider church community has not always made it easy for members and non-members to discuss these sensitive issues.
“We are just getting into the learning curve to indicate that the church stands ready to provide help,” he said, as parents, among others, struggle with the dilemma of alternative lifestyles within their own families and communities.
In the wake of recent abusive language from politicians and others aimed at members of the LGBT community, Pastor Ebanks spoke of the stigma attached to what he referred to as “alternative lifestyles, inhibiting discussion”. But the church wanted to reach out in love and compassion to those who struggle with sensitive concerns.
“The leaders are all committed, nevertheless, to setting standards in the church that are based on the absolute authority of God’s word.”
A recent decision by the Immigration Appeals Tribunal has facilitated the legal acknowledgment, for immigration purposes at least, of same sex unions in Cayman but it has not made any difference to the legal definition of marriage here, which remains a union of opposites sexes.
Despite calls from many moderate church leaders around the world for more tolerance, Christians are increasingly divided on same-sex unions, as well as sexuality and gender issues.
Category: Local News
If being gay is a choice, when did you choose to be straight?
I would like to see the pastors in the Cayman Islands focus their spiritual attention on ADULTRY. Perhaps that would ring some local bells given adultery is rampant in the country.
As for people who rant against homosexuality, they seem to rant to cover up secret feelings of same sex attraction they try to deny from themselves. Read some of Bishop John Shelby Spong and get some insight into bible thumpers.
Why, why is someone else’s wife or husband sleeping with someone else your’s or society’s problem. Unah too fast, that’s what the overall underlying issue is. Watch your own spouse and stop worrying about other people
Why is a homosexual relationship and marriage your business or these pastor’s business? Stop worrying about other people.
I see what you did there
One follows ones own advise or risks being labeled a hypocrite.
I would love to focus on adultery. However, my wife won’t let me.
It was the same thing with the Clintons, Monica had no problem, Hillary was cool with the extra help, but then the rest of America got wex. Many men would stick around and provide for their kids and family in these situations if you and the rest of the village would put down the touches and pitch forks whenever someone succumbs to a moment of weakness. like the poster below said, stay in your own lane and watch your own yard
When you have many christians on social media, congratulating a child of god on the news that they’re carrying an illegitimate child, I think that sermon would just fall on deaf ears.
Once the child is on the way, we must be supportive of the mother-to-be. That is way too late to attempt to show our disapproval. We needed to have taken an interest in the person well ahead — nine months ahead of the event, at the very least! Ten times to one onlookers knew that that teen had been clearly moving in that direction but they exercised no intervention that might have helped.
And by the way — there is no such thing as an “illegitimate” child — all human beings are legitimate. Please nix the label on children — every human being must be welcomed into this world and given all the acceptance and love possible.
Adultery and other sins are included in the article as a focus. Further, Christianity has from time immemorial repudiated adultery — think Ten Commandments.
I am new to the island and was a fervent attender of the Church of England in England before coming here and am surprised at the attitude of Bishop Sykes since it does not fit with the views expressed by the Archbishop of Canterbury. Someone has told me Bishop Sykes is a Canadian bishop from a small breakaway sect not a real Church of England one. Can anyone help?
cayman is a land of scam churches who are more interestind in $$$ than anything else….
It would be that cultish breakaway group that ditched all that “love” stuff Jesus kept going on about.
No, Bishop Sykes is from England. The Anglican Church has always tried to accommodate widely different views on important issues, including those of its members in England, some of whom accept women priests, same sex marriage etc while others do not. Perhaps your particular church congregation does. Being new to the island provides you the opportunity to learn about Caymanian culture and traditions.
I have an idea for you three. Make it law that gays have to wear an inverted pink triangle.
If they are gay and jewish they can wear an inverted pink triangle over a standard yellow triangle. This is defiantly the Christian thing to do to help us know who to hate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_symbols#Triangles_used_for_persecution_during_the_Nazi_regime
The fact that the churches have chosen to spend their time on this issue is proof of their failure and ineptness at solving the real issues of poverty, crime, and social inequality. Looks like they picked the easiest target in our society to make themselves look like the most virtuous.
You could be on to something here. But at the moment it is little more than your personal musings. “Proof”? Well, imagine presenting what you are claiming to a court of law (or a university). How would this “proof” fare, in all honesty? Not to well, or for very long, I reckon. Your assertions would be shredded.
All I know is that if I say I am christian then I get better schedules and higher pay than my colleagues at work. Throw in a few discouraging remarks about the non church attendees and I get a bonus. A few whispers and rumors about the single male at the office being gay and I am sure to get a promotion. Its that easy people, just work with the churches and you will have heaven on earth. So sayeth 20th century dogmatic social dynamics.
Which one is Moe?
Which one is Larry?
Which one is Curly?
Thanks for taking a stand on what Caymanians believe. We are a Christian nation and should do our best to live by the book… Yes, we are still going to mess up, hurt others and ourselves and sin in many other ways. However, to make something that the bible prohibits “socially acceptable” is dangerous.
PS- The world is flat. You have been lied to all of your life.
The only thing flat is your head apparently 1:02.
Are you sure this is what all Caymanians believe? Have you done a survey to ask all of them their opinion on the matter? I don’t know where you have been but Cayman is no longer the Christian Nation it once was, far from it. The world is changing and their are locals who have to deal with discrimination because of who they choose to love, do you think that this is fair. And if we are a Christian nation as you stated in your comment why are we not showing the love that Jesus talked about?
I’m happy the Pastors are interested in focusing on the teaching of the Bible. Whey are they going to boycott Fosters, Hurley’s, Kirks, The Lobster House, and all the others who sell Shellfist? Perhaps at the same time they can stone to death misbehaving children and most certainly all those cheating husbands and wives on the island. After all “the Bible says to”.
Seriously, I hope the Pastors read each and every one of the comments to this story. Perhaps then they will understand and address the real issues of the day, and not just go after the low hanging fruit.
No one is to stone anyone, until I blow this whistle.
Whateverrrrrrrrr
Only a fool attempts to debate what “God” intends and wants for mankind. I choose to wait until we meet and see what He says.
What I find perplexing is people from countries like the USA and the UK slandering Cayman as primitive and backwards because of this issue – yet they are likely about to elect as President the racists’ favourite of candidates (Trump) and just experienced a historic and monumental democratic referendum vote undeniably propelled by collective racism (Brexit) respectively.
As I said before; some countries aren’t that keen on gay marriage and others are (still) racist as heck.
Seems fair.
– Whodatis
*What’s that verse again? “Let he without sin cast the first stone.”
Sorry folks, but the majority of you have no leg to stand on in this regard.
Let’s not even get started on Caymanian racism then. How about the “driftwood” slander from an elected leader?
Utter drivel as usual from you.
Lol!
Did you really just attempt to compare a single local incident to the majority percentage vote in a country of 70 million people?
Don’t even waste my time playa.
😀
– Who
Did you rely just try to sum up the entire Brexit vote as a single issue of a country being racist? You are wasting all of our time. Idiot.
Pretty much what won it for Leave was the racism of provincial poorly educated Little Englanders.
The section of little englanders didn’t want other whites from Eastern Europe coming in without controls. You lose, moron. The rest is about economics and political compatibility.
God has made His stance clear on this matter a long time ago.
I for one do not dare put words in His mouth. God is not too bothered by religion, but He is pleased with truth.
And yet you do put words in his mouth…..
Only you could bring in the US and your pet hate the UK on a local issue. I am beginning to suspect to suffer an attention deficit disorder combined with a chip on your shoulder.
I believe the term that escapes you at the moment is “perspective”.
Really sucks for your argument when it is applied, huh?
– Who
Oh look, the all too easy racist card has been played.
I’d like to see the reaction if the CIG were told that they had to take in all the migrants arriving on your shores by boat and their housing and benefits would be paid for by the tax payers. Then a couple of these new arrivals try to either kill, rape or rob from those who have kindly taken them in and also preach to the others that they should do the same.
Spot on. It’s all too easy to criticize a proper country with actual real world responsibilities and problems from this little dot in the ocean where complete governmental incompetence reigns supreme over a population of only 60,000. Good grief.
The population of my country has more than DOUBLED in my lifetime (80’s baby). With that has come monumental change and shifts in the population, culture and norms of my native land.
Nevertheless, we have never democratically enacted such a xenophobic overthrow as was the UK Brexit referendum of 2016.
Moreover, the influx of people and “change” in the Cayman Islands has gone to the very top in terms of wealth, power and the ability to reorientate the direction of the country as a whole.
However, people like you, and so many British nationals, are running scared in the streets because of a drop in the ocean amount of newcomers that will be culturally forced to remain at the bottom due to the classist nature of the country.
You can waste time and debate with yourselves whether or not xenophobia and racism was the prime motivator in the result until the cows come home – but some of us prefer to simply see things for what they are.
Anyway, I am not spending much time and effort analysing countries that are clearly confused and in a complete shambles so I now return to the issue at hand.
Countries like America and the UK have no ground to point a finger at another when it comes to discrimination and inequality.
– Whodatis
*At this time I reiterate my earlier suggestion of civil partnerships as a means to address the many issues surrounding equality in marriage – for everyone, gay or straight.
The fact you presume to know me from a paragraph long post confirms your ignorance.
Behold the danger of a little education wasted on a person of small mind.
I would not be surprised to find that you have never even visited the UK, as you appear oblivious to the level of diversity and integration that has been a part of Great Britian since before long before the 1950’s.
And stop screaming about racisim, because nowhere is it more prevalant than in the Caribbean and Africa within the very race that you tout as being ‘oppressed’.
Educate yourself with some History and General Knowledge before opening you posterior and braying like an ass.
The Brits have never feared immigration nor integration, but they (rightfully so) will not risk the welfare and security of their Citizens (and Colonies for that matter) simply because a bunch of UN-ELECTED ‘Eurocrats’ in Berlin are pushing for for them to let masses of un-documented migrants through their Borders, especially when the majority of those migrants are originating from the very countries where we (the Western WORLD) is fighting the War on Terror.
Just look at what is happening throughout the rest of the EU .. Terrorists running wild in GERMANY, SWEDEN, FRANCE and BELGIUM… how dumb are you? … seriously?
Re: “The Brits have never feared immigration nor integration…”
Eh?! Say wha?!
Yes, the eyewitness accounts of how newly arrived Black Caribbean men were chased and stoned through the streets of London by mobs of White British men are all lies then, right? Those white haired Grannies featured on recent documentaries were lying through their teeth about how they had to form human female walls of protection for those immigrants.
Additionally, it is a lie how the London authorities were going around measuring the heads and torsos of East Asian immigrants of the same time – creating detailed databases in the process.
Also, those 1960’s and 70’s government-issued pamphlets warning White Liverpudlian women of “being ruined” once they lay with the Black man, as “his penis is significantly larger than the White man’s to whom the White woman’s vagina is matched” were also recently fabricated for shock value in the archives, correct?
The difficulties and often impossibility of finding accommodation due to racial discrimination is also a dirty lie told on the people of the Britain I guess. Yes, they were good enough to wipe Nan’s ass and extend the rail network, but not good enough to rent a room in the basement apparently.
I am sure you get the point by now. If any of the above is news to you, then I suggest you do a bit of research. While you’re at it, see if you can find the slightest evidence of comparable incidents in Cayman during that time and or thereafter.
For the reasons above along with many others is why some of us were in no way shocked by the Brexit result. The problem is, Brits have long failed to see and acknowledge who they really are – but are quick to attack anyone that holds up a mirror.
– Who
You must be a very unhappy person to carry around so much hate. Let it go! What did the UK / white guy ever do to you?
Yep. Another example of a refusal to accept truth. Let’s label Whodatis as hateful instead.
Tell me, would you describe the archives, eyewitnesses, documentaries and books speaking to these issues as “filled with hate” as well?
foh
Cayman Islands will always be a backwards and primitive country until we become secularist and remove the church from the courtroom, like it or not. Ancient mythology is your choice to believe in while others prefer intellectually made decisions based off of empirical evidence, and this logical reasoning is the only kind that should be used in the court of law, not some story book containing religious myths that were used to control populations before the time of video surveillance.
…and apparently forward and progressive countries will always be xenophobic and racist.
Same difference I guess.
Hit me up for examples if required.
I dare you to name a country that is not xenophobic or racist #goodluck
Systemic racism and xenophobia exist everywhere in the world; there is only one way to stop it but all sides fear change and don’t truly want to be the change.. so we wait another 50+ years and see what will happen. Maybe 500 years post slavery and segregation we may have a sense of a HUMAN RACE.
I gather you are not exactly in favour of religion in general.
I would love to see these churches out at the Needs Assessment Unit handing out breakfast and juices to the people in need waiting at the door at 6am in the morning for assistance.
I would also love to see our churches encouraging their members to foster one of the many homeless, family-less and needy children we have right here in Cayman.
I would also love to see our churches more often visiting the shut-ins and elderly at the rest home and assisting the families with the many expenses they have to care for their elderly.
I would love to see all the churches come together under one umbrella instead of giving every variation of interpretation of the Bible a different name in order to market their church and attract “tithe-paying” followers.
We have so many desperate youth in Cayman that need counseling and special attention – many say the resources are there, they just need to go to them. But a child does not even always know when and what times they should be calling the police or even the ambulance. Our duties as adults are to assist with the direction of our youth and teach them how to successfully integrate in to society and become productive citizens.
The benefits handed out by churches in Cayman are very often only extended to those who warm the pews on a weekly basis – not to mention the many “ordained” pastors we import monthly.
With perks like work permit waivers and no business trading fees I believe a church is one of the most viable profit-making efforts anyone can embark on in this day.
Now, these comments are not directed entirely to this group here, but whoever the shoe fits wear it.
“I would love to see these churches out at the Needs Assessment Unit” … smh … your first words prove your ignorance. Why don’t you attend these churches and find out how they are helping the needy for yourself?!
At the end of the day, I think we have to ask ourselves, what kind of Cayman do we want?
I chose to stand and defend the Country, cultures and values I love and to reject the specter of homosexuality within my community.
Yes, there are Caymanians who are gays, XXXXXX that doesn’t mean that we simply look the other way and accept it because some of our own engage in that behavior.
I am with the church on this one and I hope all our elected representative will be asked to declare their stance on this issue before the next general elections. At some stage, we all have to make a choice, my personal choice is, if you are pro-LGBT, you do not, will not and cannot represent me.
There is a portal to the 17th century and this man is sending messages from then.
Dear Churches of Cayman
The ones your are trying to fight against, are not harming anyone, absolutely NO ONE!!! Just because it is of the same sex you think you have the right to judge them? I think your energy would be well spent in protecting the innocents of children who are abused, sexually and any other type of abuse. XXXXX How about the men who raped innocent woman, children? How about relationships when, boyfriends, husbands (yes even so called upstanding citizens) abuse their wifes/girlfriends? I think these issues should be dealt with and worried about. Not adult people who know what they want and are not hurting anyone!!! Pedophiles are disgusting human beings and can never change, protect the children, help woman or even men who are in an abusive relationships. Your holy than wow ways of thinking are very backwards.
Did you mean to write “Specter” r did you mean “sphincter of homosexuality?”
You are not the only one wishing representation. That is the purpose of equality. You are no better than nor do you have more rights than that person who is different from you.
When you have christians amongst your flock who claim to be a child of god but seek out the weak minded partners of others just for their financial future, you might want to put you own house in order first before preaching to others.
Maybe they missed bible class when they got to the 7th Commandment.
No disrespect to these Pastors for uniting together on a topic that they find to be of utmost importance to them. However, I find it rather interesting that of ALL the issues facing Cayman, and the world as a whole, these Pastors decide that their focus needs to be placed solely on standing against “alternative lifestyles”, particularly same-sex unions.
For crying out loud, why is so much focus being placed on WHO someone loves, rather than on sexual predators, domestic abuse, poverty, teenagers who can’t read/write and do basic mathematics, the unemployment rate, government abusing public funds for their benefits, etc.? Why are people so consumed with who someone is sleeping with, man or woman or both, rather than consuming themselves with REAL ISSUES and trying to find solutions to those issues?
I was raised in the Christian church and I’m well aware of the beliefs the majority have surrounding same-sex relationships. However, I was also raised to believe that God is love, and that it’s not our right to judge one another. Instead of banding together to make sure that the “Christian values” of “traditional marriage” are upheld, why not band together to promote LOVE and PEACE?
It’s 2016 and the world is falling apart even more than it was just a year ago. There’ll always be someone, or something, that we don’t agree with, but it doesn’t mean that we should place so much focus on that particular “issue” that’s not half as important as the many other issues facing our community/island/the world. Sure, you can have your opinion and agree/disagree, but it shouldn’t be to the point that you end up promoting more division in an already divided community/island/world. The focus needs to stop being on minuscule issues, and on issues that are actually harmful to other human beings.
Oh, and on the topic of upholding Cayman’s Christian values, I guess we need to start addressing the issue of bars/nightclubs, Batabano/Pirates Week, alcohol/cigarettes, etc. If we’re going to focus on something as minuscule as two men/women loving one another and joining in a same-sex relationship/union as an attack on our Christian values, then we better address some of those other minuscules issues that same to continuously be overlooked.
Shall we? 🙂
Peace and love!
What are you talking about? I think the ministers here have always spoken out on diverse issues effecting our society and their local congregations.
It just so happens that amongst the issues addressed in the world, the gay and carnal issues are the most popular.
I honestly believe these ministers didn’t expect their photo to be posted on CNS under a titled article “Churches to push anti-gay marriage stance.”
You make the assumption that the gay issue is all that they care about. You judge wrong.
I’m in no way saying that the Pastors haven’t spoken out on diverse issues in general, nor am I assuming that the topic of same-sex relationships is all they care about. I’m simply addressing that they’ve currently chosen to give so much focus to it, while there are other pressing matters at hand. Matters that not only the Pastors, but the entire community, should be concerned about.
Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why “the gay and carnal issues are the most popular”? Maybe it’s because people are always getting into one another’s business, instead of focusing on their own business at home. No one would have time to judge another’s life, if they worked on their own problems.
Everyone is so quick to point fingers and cast judgement on another person because of their difference in sexual orientation/religious belief/etc. Instead of doing that, why not show a little LOVE towards one another, which will hopefully result in more PEACE.
I have friend who attended Yale University Divinity School, so no academic slouch, who has been a Minister his whole life. He firmly believes that the Bible does allow for GLT marriage and has performed them.
Another friend is an ordained Minister but practices Law. The church she attends does not only marry G and L but their Pastor is a Lesbian.
So clearly, Christianity allows for more than one way to skin a cat.
The local ministers suggesting that there is only one way to interpret this matter, is clearly false.
11:12am@29/7: it is a little amusing that you think that a few examples prove a case — well how about thousands of ministers of religion who absolutely find no evidence in the Bible to support gay marriage — on the basis of your logic, that should work, shouldn’t it?
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Church Leaders, would you be interested in taking a stand and spearheading an initiative “to raise awareness of biblical teachings” and an education programme island-wide that rallies against corruption and churches and church leaders taking money from questionable sources?
A great comedy Perfetti sconosciuti (Perfect Strangers in English) (2016) just came out, I think it is available on Netflix.
It is about “happy marriages” between man and woman, about gay issue. Truly hilarious view on what MAN tries to control with its The Moral Sense,
or Fighting against the Law of Nature.
I would have a couple of gays babysit my kids over a “man of the cloth” any day!
Be my guest! still you have gay molesters out there 🙂
Yes you do, but I would still trust a gay (or straight) couple in a loving relationship over a man of the cloth.
Yep especially ones in a frock
Hahahaha and hetero molesters too dingdong. I’d wager there are WAY more hetero and priests molesting than there are gay molesters.
You are so dumb it hurts.
Renpmember that the initiative caries a tag line of “Preserving Values for a better tomorrow.” This extends to all the needs across the whole society. The church’s aim is to work towards a spiritually enriched society that orders its lives on Bible. That, my friends, will take care of a multiple of sins.
The question of what “tolerance” means is relevant here. “Tolerance” does not mean that you no longer have an opinion, but it does mean that you extend compassion and allow God to work on the hearts of people. That is the stance of the church — love the sinner always, but recognise the sin and reach out in love.
And that applies to the universe of sins.
” a campaign to promote what they see as the biblical basis for family life”
and all due to something that will affect probably 10 people, yet teenage pregnancy is at an all time high amongst caymanians, divorce rates are some of the highest in the world, and single parent families are everywhere, with young men being baby daddies, but never marrying.
And all this has been happening for over 10 years, yet now the church wants to promote family life.
Talk about wrong priorities, lol
I am sure that these men have been speaking out against various sins for a long time. I think now because they have touch the gay sin, a popular sin, is the reason why it is HEADLINE NEWS and you and your commenters are crying. Am I correct 🙂
so you worry about a man and a woman who part ways because they don’t want to be together anymore, yet support the sanctity of two men in a homosexual relationship? interesting
To 8:40 am – 29/07 : the church has been preaching against pre-marital and extra-marital sex from time immemorial, and from what I read all of these ills are part of the focus. And I thought I had also read either here or in the Compass Pastor Ebanks saying that the church “was late” in joining forces. At least they have started. What are YOU doing?
It amazes me to know and see people who do not believe in God but yet move to a country where Christianity is the way of life for the majority and of which the country was founded on.
Why then would you come to be apart of the society with beliefs that you are so set against. With your posts i feel your fear, your uncomfortable level on the subject of God. Well continue to fear. He is real. He is our savior and His word will continue to be upheld by His people.
Go ahead and comment with laughter. Comment with ridicule. I got you to read the post AND I WONT BE BACK TO READ ANY OF YOUR COMMENTS. God is good. Seek him. You are unhappy. Call on Him..
God is good to me…..God is good to me…..God is good to me. And more importantly He lives. AMEN
A good advert for atheism there.
My friend it is your call. You are not to blame for your people’s history and past lack of belief. It is not anyones job to “convert” you. Nor is anyone trying to.
YOU CHOSE A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY.
Your private clubs and their silly rules are subordinate to national laws which apply over British territories.
We would be more impressed with that argument if you actually all started adhering to Christian values yourselves. Not stealing/being corrupt would be a nice chance.
Here, Christian? hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…
So you would exile the gay Caymanians amongst us? We do not choose where we are born.
We are at an important juncture in Cayman’s constitutional and legal history and it does call for all voices to be heard. I see no reason that in a democratic society we should not be open to listen to the church, which has and will continue to play an important role in the affairs of the Isands, educationally, spiritually, and socially. This is what the church is continuing to do in this initiative. I will say for the church that when we try to abide by the laws of God, we cannot go wrong.
For those who are now bashing the church because it is exercising its voice in the area of values, which is exactly what it should should be doing, in very fundamental ways, yes, it is true that they have not collaborated as well as they should. But they are now doing it. The intention is for a continuous evolution of efforts to make life better for all of us in all the different avenues, many of which have been referenced by bloggers.
So don’t knock them for not collaborating before — at least they are now working together. And they will ultimately be addressing many concerns in the process of promoting Bible-based values.
“where Christianity is the way of life for the majority and of which the country was founded on”
…and which spends an entire week celebrating piracy.
The “way of life” for much of Cayman’s history was violence and theft, and it is still celebrated for a week each April.
Every single country has theft and violence in thier history. America: the white man killed the Indians and take thier land and slave black people, The Germans: killed millions for being Jews, Africa: stilling killing each other, England: killing and forcing the Scottish to pay tax. And I could keep going on and on about other countries. Other countries constitution are based on violence and tax. Cayman is based on morals….
Many of the local folk are disgusted at the Pirates Week piss up. This has come from the government, not sane people.
Over 90% of our pastors are from overseas too.
You are old school, as a young 45yr old caymanian I can’t wait for you old facts to die off so we can make the right human right changes and modernisation change so our island will survive!!
To 29/072016 -10.10am
46 a young Caymanian? Really!
,
,
You should’nt be proud of being founded by a filthy religion like christianity which supports slavery,rape and murder.
Really? Are you a complete moron?
Where did the Slave Trade begin? Where has it existed for thousands of years, even to this very day?
Answer: Predominantly in Muslim countries of Arabia and Africa.
Who rose up and fought for the abolishion of Slavery in the Europe and the Western World?
Answer: The (European) Christians.
Where does Slavery still exist and indeed thrive today?
The AFRICAN continent.
Who control the modern slave trade?
Muslims (example: Boko Haram)
Who opposes education and equal rights for women?
Who murder innocent women under the pre-text of ‘Honour’ killings?
Oh, let me guess? Christians? NO, Muslims!!
I suggest that you not dishonor the sacrifices endured by our forefathers, and embrace the opportunities that we as a Caribbean people have gained from the hardships endured by our Ancestors.
If it were not for the evils of a past that we all have benefitted from, we might all be having to live with ISIS and Boko Haram in our back yard. Stop Bashing Christianity as it is obvious you knowledge of it is highly deficient!
May the peace of Christ touch your heart and guide you to his love.
The caribbean is only christian because it was beaten into the ancestors; and 29/07/2016 at 10:17 am did not say it was the only religion founded on those basis. #ignorantmuch
The country founded on the backs of slave labor as well but I don’t see anyone looking to go back to those “values”. I dare to say that we, as a country, are or should be more educated now than those early founders and should be able to forge new, more tolerant and inclusive, values as a country going forward.
I’m not saying that religion doesn’t have a place in today’s society, for those that care to believe. However, I believe that more Caymanians have become disillusioned with the Church “Bu$ine$$” and religions as a wholes and moved beyond believing just because our parents or grandparent do.
Religion has no place in politics. It stays in the fiction aisle.
Here’s a newsflash for you. Not every “born Caymanian” is religious. Many Caymanians have thought their way free from the childish god fantasy. The reason you are not aware of them is because they keep quiet about it. They feel the need to do this because so many idiots associate atheism with immorality.
Actually every born person isn’t religious.
There is no such thing as a ‘child of god” or “christian or muslim child”. There are only children of christian parents or muslim parents.
You are brainwashed to believe God!
Yeah, how dare we ensure that all of our citizens are entitled to the same rights.
Also why are we listening to people that believe in fairytales. If you want to live your life according to your religion so be it but your believes shouldn’t get to dictate my life. We need a complete separation of church and state in this country.
What must it be like to actually believe that everything is supervised by a magic wizard in the sky who makes rules about who you can marry and what you can do.
What makes think “He” is a magic wizard in the sky??? The rules about marriage and what one should and shouldn’t do is found in a book and Church traditions.
I don’t think that has anything to do with the real God.
It’s found in a book that was written by morons.
A bishop, a reverend, and a pastor are sitting in a bar, across the street from a brothel. They are sipping their drinks when they see a reverend walk in to the brothel. “a-wha gwan! It’s a bad thing to see a man of the cloth give into temptation”, says the reverend.
A short while later, they see a pastor walk into the brothel. “Watch ya! It’s terrible and holy inappropriate to see a man of the cloth give into such temptation”, says the pastor.
In a little bit, they see a bishop enter the brothel.
“It’s nice to see the ladies, who have been used so poorly, have time to confess their sins”, says the bishop.
The word ‘Marriage’ has been defined for thousands of years as a legally binding commitment between two persons of the opposite sex.
OK.
So exactly HOW does that stop us from giving two persons in a same sex union the same rights?
Who said it has to be called a ‘marriage’? Call it a ‘Civil Union’, call it a ‘Garriage’ call it whatever we want, but GOD alone is the Judge of us all, and he said we must LOVE our neighbour, even our enemies … just because we may not accept that lifestyle for ourselves does not give any of us the right to abuse others for making a choice that we may not agree with … providing that it is mutual between two consenting adults and not portrayed in a manner that would be offensive to others around us.
We need to focus on the eradicating the hate in this world, and stop trying to destroy the Love that people have for each other. Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it wrong or right … GOD ALONE knows the secrets of our hearts.
So it’s wrong for two grown consenting adults to be with each other but it’s right when the priest have sex with young boys… Is this the only thing thing you all can be united about? What about bring united about poverty in Cayman, woman and children being abused, high school kids who can’t read and the list goes on… Am I lying? Make a trip down to the Needs Assessment Unit and Children and Family Department.
10:11pm/28-7: What? Who says it is right for priests to have sex with children? Is that the best you can do to argue your case?
So where were the Cayman churches outcry when the many cases were being dealt with globally just a few years ago?
That’s right…same as when there are the many cases of child abuse locally….Silence!
CNS: where does the “Old Testament sanction slavery?” Not in my Bible! And by the way, try to report without commentary for a change.
CNS: It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. The Bible was used at the time to justify the Atlantic slave trade and most of the slave traders and slave owners were Christian.
Here are a few references:
Exodus Chapter 21, verse 1:
Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.
Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Leviticus Chapter 25, verse 44:
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Yes some people who called themselves Christian were involved in the slave trade, but that does not mean that the bible sanctioned it. It is not far fetched from some people who call themselves Christian now sanctioning homosexual activities when the bible clearly states that it is wrong. I know that there will always be right and wrong and right always trump wrong.
Agreed moderator, but its also a fact that the Bible (unlike the Koran) is divided into 2 Testaments or covenants: The Old Testament and the New Testament. The Old was for the Jews, and Christians believe was intended to show the gravity of sin and mankind’s need for a promise messiah to come. Hence the reason why God was stern and judgmental. As a Just God, He wouldn’t be just to not punish sin. And then you have the New Testament that was when the messiah came (Jesus) and establish a Church to replace Israel. Jesus declared a gospel of “no violence” and all must be freed from the SLAVERY of sin.
Hence for Christians (if not all) we still respect the Old and teach lessons from the Old. But we do not follow the Law of Moses in the Old like the Jews. We FOLLOW the teachings of the New Testament, because therein lies the age of grace, the words of Jesus, His new law of SACRIFICIAL LOVE and the mission of the Church to being a light to the world before a universal set day of Judgement.
If you are unable to understand this factual Christian theology, whether you are an educated person, an atheist or not, you will not understand that the Christian view of God is not the same as the Muslim or Jewish view of God.
So for a Christian, yes God was judgmental, but judgmental for a reason… and that reason lies in the New Testament. Hence He is not judgmental now – it is postponded so to speak. A time of grace for all to repent must first expire, and then a great day of Judgment will come on the world as Jesus returns. Now for Muslims and Jews they can say God is still judgmental like He was in Old Testament because their are no changes to the covenant.
CNS: You’ve gone off on a tangent and introduced a completely irrelevant argument. (Attack! Attack! Attack!) The article noted that the Old Testament sanctioned slavery. The commenter denied this, so I found examples in the OT to support the statement in the article. This is not a theological debate about who should believe what in which bit of the Bible or the difference between the Old and New Testaments. It’s about a very simple question: Did the OT sanction slavery? The answer is yes.
I also noted that people who identified themselves as Christian used the Bible for hundreds of years to justify their involvement in or support of the Atlantic slave trade. Again, this is not a debate about my understanding of Christianity or your interpretation of the Bible, or the slavers’ for that matter (which was taken on by the Abolitionists, who were also Christian and who also used the Bible to support their position). This is a point of history. The simple question is: Did Christians use the Bible to condone slavery? The answer is yes.
No, you changed the question. The original question was whether the Bible condones slavery, not whether Christians condoned it using the Bible.
Also, you chose to encourage a misunderstanding of Biblical-times slavery as practised by the Jews versus the chattel slavery practised by us Brits.
As usual you’re pretending to maintain a neutral position in a non-editorial news piece while repeatedly trying to discredit the pastors, eg by calling them hypocrites using the Bible. So you can’t now throw your hands in the air and say you’re not being theological.
CNS: Yes, you are right I added a point in the comment section (i.e. the section where people present views). The first paragraph to my response above supports the fact – yes, fact – that the Bible (specifically the Old Testament) condones slavery. The second point, which wasn’t in the article, is that historically – another fact – some people who identified themselves as Christians used the book upon which their religion (and your religion I’m guessing) is based to condone slavery. You have not addressed either point, merely referred to it as a “misunderstanding”.
So let’s get some clarity. Are you saying that the slave owners and slave traders who used the Bible to condone what they were doing did not understand the Bible? Were they confused? Liars? Hypocrits? Evil men or just muddled? Did they believe that was what the Bible was telling them because of the times in which they lived and their own cultural norms?
Booya!!! Well done CNS. That’ll hold him/her @11:31.
CNS– score 1 for u on the Old Testament slavery issue — but your comment is still irrelevant.
It was just a way to demonstrate your bias by grasping at an irrelevant fact that added up to one thing — commentary that has no place in a news article.
CNS: The article included a statement of fact (the OT condones slavery), which was disputed. I backed up the statement of fact with supporting evidence. You have now agreed that it was a statement of fact… and then went on to again suggest it was a comment (an opinion). The relevance is that Pastor Ebanks suggested that this issue is like slavery in that it is a colonial imposition of ideas that run against his own ideas of family life. To make that claim, which is a massive stretch of logic, without noting that for hundreds of years the Atlantic slave trade was by and large supported by Christians is a huge omission.
CNS:in your comment on 6:09 pm: yes, dear, you are making a comment, even if it is a statement of fact — I am surprised that you find that hard to deal with.
And, yes, the Pastor was right, both the gay rights movement and slavery were imposed from outside, and both, in his view, are anti-family.
While you may dispute that the LGBT movement is anti-family, there can be no disputing that slavery that is part of Caribbean history — which is what he was referring to — was anti-family. That is simply a cold, hard fact.
Now how you manage to confuse the discussion with the fact of Christians being involved is beyond me. What does it matter what their religious beliefs were? They were imposing their power on groups of people over whom they could exercise political control. That was his point.
It was a crying shame that many slave owners — in more recent history or in the more distant past– espoused Christian views while engaging in horrific acts against humanity. But it was still colonists and imperialist actions. Surely, you can grasp that?
You, CNS, made the illogical argument that essentially had no relevance — and, you, CNS, editorialised in a news story.
Hmmm, CNS, further to you comment on 29/7, 6:09, First, Pastor Ebanks was making the point that both slavery and gay politics are ills that are being inspired and engineered by powerful external political forces. Why is that a “massive stretch of logic”? Seems to me that that is an accurate assessment in both instances. Slavery was imposed on Caribbean nations and we see no ground swell leading the gay movement in the Caribbean region. In fact, we see quite the opposite — Bermuda, for example, recently rejected gay marriage in a referendum.mif there were a referendum today in Cayman we would have the same result as for Bermuda.
As for so-called Christians supporting the slave trade, don’t you think you are the one making the “massive stretch of logic”? In trying to understand your comment –and it is a comment — the only relevance that can be attributed to your argument is that Christians within the victim territories supported the trade. If that is your point, as far as The Caribbean slave trade was concerned, I suspect that some of the slave masters did identify as Christians, but 1.that historical atrocity was and is not in keeping with the ethos of Christianity, and 2. Certainly the victims had no power to resist the terrible circumstances in which they found themselves and which emanated from external forces that were motivated by greed and mysognism and racism — again, all failings roundly and soundly repudiated by Christianity.
As for your argument about Old Testament slavery, not being a Bible scholar, I can’t comment on that, except to say I have been trying very hard to see the relevance to Ebanks’ comment about the imposition of slavery in the Caribbean. Whether Muslim, Hindi or Christian, it was indefensible, tyrannical, and to be repudiated.
On your “slavery” comment, you have taken what was said out of context. The speaker who made the comment was speaking about slavery in the context of the atrocities perpetrated in our times in the Americas and the Caribbean. That horror story from which we are still feeling the ill effects today and from which we are still trying to recover has obviously been lost on you, CNS. Obviously, the commentator in your story has no notion of and no empathy for the effects of that aspect of history and its legacy with which we are still struggling today and which you so glibly dismiss in that inane aside about Old Testament slavery.
CNS: The article points out that the Old Testament condones slavery and out of that you jump to the conclusion that we at CNS have no idea of the horror of slavery. Bit of a chasm there in your logical thought process. So let’s start with this premise; we are all aware of how awful the slave trade and slavery was. This is not part of the debate and hiding behind the claim that you are much more in touch with just how awful it was is intellectual cowardice. Stick to debating the issues.
Paster Ebanks (apologies, I mistakenly said that it was Rev Sykes) claims that support for gays and lesbians to have the same rights as heterosexuals is like slavery. This is also a very bizarre thought process. There is nothing to link these two things. However, there is a very solid link between support for slavery and Christianity: most of the people involved in the slave trade were Christians and justified their involvement using the Bible. This is only “glib” or “inane” if you have no answer to this point.
@3:53 am – exactly what effects of salvery are you are you trying to recover from?
Wow 8:09 am at 29/7, can you actually be do limited that you are unaware of the impact of slavery — I had no idea that there were people out there that do not realise that the history of a people explains so much about where they are today. Flabbergasted.
The gentlemen were referencing specifically the enslavement of Africans whose descendants have largely populated the Caribbean and originally the South of the US. Old Testament slavery is irrelevant here. The fact is that the Caribbean slave owners behaved in a way that evinced no recognition that they were dealing with people who had a right to the institution of the family. Slavery (specifically that from which most of us in the Caribbean today have descended) was, indeed, anti-family.
…and emancipation of slaves was something that was imposed on Cayman from the outside.
Please tell us of the Cayman slavery emancipation movement that led to the end of slavery in Cayman.
No one in Cayman wanted to free the slaves.
True. Slave-owners were then generously compensated for the value of their slaves: they received sterling £46 10s 8d per slave, compared to £50 that a slave would fetch at auction. (ref. M. Craton, “Founded Upon the Seas”)
Robin Debanks, you are going off topic — what relevance is it to this discussion whether imancipation was imposed or not? Of course it was impose. Because the slave owners — the British settlers who arrived with and brought in slaves, held the power in the society.
But we are definitely digressing — the issue is that it did not suit the slave owners for slaves to have a sense of “family” — they were possessions who were torn away from partners and children to enrich slave owners.
And for the person who wants to know what Caribbean societies — and indeed African Americans — are “recovering” from today — there you have it. The dislocation that slavery imposed robbed them of the traditions that come with family — rearing children with self-esteem, educational opportunities, and the values that come from the teaching of principles within the family that make a society strong and progressive and law abiding.
So, ripping families apart and selling off members to different slave owners and being completely indifferent to their pain and suffering is just like wanting to give two people who love each other basic human rights. This is your point?
11:58 @29/7: do try to keep up with the thread of the discussion.
This is what happens when people believe in imaginary god-friends and rely on a book of ancient absurdities to form their worldviews. These three men could be, should be, thoroughly decent and sensible members of modern society. But because of a misguided allegiance to fairytales imposed on them in childhood they are acting on ways that are mean, backward, and socially corrosive. Come on, guys. Wake up, grow up. Join humanity. Side with love and reality over prejudice and fantasy.
And by the way, equating gay marriage to slavery is stunningly wrong and just plain weird. One of them is a horrible injustice that the Bible approves of. The other is about two adults loving eachother and the Bible opposes it. Only those who are filled with hate, psychologically twisted by their own secret sexual desires, or hopelessly crazed by religion cannot identify the right side of this issue to be on at first glance.
Reflect on your life, fellas. There are far more constructive and enjoyable ways to spend your existence than this. Gay couples are not bringing on the end of the world. Religion, hate, and stupidity may destroy us one day, but not gays in love. Come on, think about it. Stop swimming in your delusions for a minute and allow yourselves to think. Come up for air and discover the goodness in you.
It’s never too late to become a good person.
You can go ahead and bash the bible. Maybe you should understand that for many many years people greater and more influencial than you have tried over the ages to destroy and stamp out the bible to no avail. Today it is still listed on the Guiness world record as the number one best seller. If anyone doubt this they can do their research. So go ahead and knock yourselves trying to get rid of the bible and denouncing that there is a God. One day you will realise the futility of it. I believe that the reason why so many homosexuals and supporters of homosexual are so angry with anyone who mentions the name God or the bible is because deep down in your being you know you are wrong and you cannot bear to acknowledge that both God and the bible is the measure that all of us will be judged by. I pray for your souls.
The Bible’s popularity does not prove the validity of its claims. Islam is popular too, so are astrology and psychics. Do you accept them as well? That a book so ridiculous, self-contradictory, and negative as the Bible is popular only proves something about the gullibility of human beings.
What a load of paradoxical rubbish!
I doubt that the majority of homosexuals and “supporters of homosexuals”, as you put it, have any particular desire to “bash the bible” or to hurt / ridicule religion. They are already being hurt by inequality of treatment and they don’t generally want to inflict the same hurtful treatment onto others. However, when people use the bible to support unequal treatment of homosexuals (or in countries such as Jamaica to criminalise them and punish them) there will inevitably be a clash, but that is the fault of those that interpret the bible; not the fault of homosexuals. So the issue isn’t so much with the bible or with religion per se, but rather with those that are intransigent in their interpretation of the bible and permit such intransigence to inflict harm on others. Granting equal rights under the law for homosexuals / LGBT persons does not need to erode religion or Christian values, provided there is a clear separation between religion and the state. In theory, this is the case in the Cayman Islands. So keep religion out of law and provide a legal (not a religious) framework to deal with same-sex couples, then mix in a bit of mutual love and respect on all sides, and we will live happily ever after! 🙂
‘Imaginary GOD friends’?
Even the most promonent Mathematicians of our times agree that, “.. the Calculated Probability that there is no GOD is a number closer to zero than any human being can comprehend”.
If we can’t even stop death, how can we dismiss the creation of life?
9:44 at 28/07 — just a correction — the speaker was not “equating homosexuality to slavery” — he was saying that just as how slavery was imposed from the outside, so the notion that homosexuality is to be accepted as a normal function of human sexuality is being driven by external forces.
Also, the bible has never condoned the horror of slavery that was experienced in the Caribbean — which is what the pastor was speaking about.
I leave the notion of the practice of slavery in the Old Testament — which is an entirely separate set of circumstances, no doubt — to be debated by the theologians.
Well said vicars. Contrary to what the Jews claimed and even though he had a beard and no kids JC was no batty boy.
The bigger threat to these islands are the multitude of degenerates that are being spawned by underage teenagers who can barely spell their own names – those who will kill one another at the drop of a hat because someone disrespected them. Homosexuals not so much – I hear that they eat Church leaders on occasion, but aside from that they’re pretty harmless.
7:41 at 28/07 — what an ugly heart and mind you display — so children born out of wedlock are “degenerates “!! What century do you live in?
You know exactly what I mean, so let’s not play dumb… The degenerates on these islands come from a variety of sources (rich; poor; trashy; classy; black; white; spanish; yellow; purple families), including those born to underage teenagers… Money or fortune doesn’t always buy one class. To further spell it out for you, as you seem to have some issues with comprehension, no, not all children born to teenagers are degenerates. That’s not at all what I said. In fact, I didn’t even mention the words “out of wedlock” – “out of wedlock” has nothing to do with it. There are some teenagers who have kids who do a good job raising them. However, kids having kids (particularly those who can’t even spell their own names – read my post) is never generally a good idea, and sometimes leads to kids being raised by the street, sometimes turning them into complete degenerates. Clear enough for you, or do you require further explanations?
Sykes no longer represent the Church of England. The Church of England has moved on…with respect to gay marriages.
Sykes was consecrated in The Christian Episcopal Church in Richmond, British Columbia. I think this sect broke away from the Anglican Church because the Anglicans were getting too liberal. For some weird reason this sect is still, apparently, considered C of E.
Amen to that. He is an ancient relic who is no longer representative of the broader CofE. It would be nice to see someone else come out to replace him – you’d see an instant rise in that particular congregation.
You speak as someone outside of the congregation you reference. Your prediction is therefore not to be depended on. Have you ever spoken with Bishop Sykes? Are you a church-goer yourself (unlike, evidently, the vast majority of those plastering posts to CNS on this particular topic) or do you spend Sunday morning nursing a hangover in preparation for a round of golf, perhaps? Do you even reside in the Cayman Islands? (Doesn’t sound like it.)
Sykes has never represented the Church of England (CoE). Outside of England the CoE is known as the Anglican Church and has a defined structure. Many years ago, certain English people living in Cayman wanted to worship in a church called CoE just like they did back home, but since that wasn’t allowed and being “Anglican” didn’t appeal to them they just created their own and gave Sykes the job.
People using religion to promote intolerance and bigotry. What else is new?
Really? Is this still the only issue that the churches can have united stand yet all these children we hear about facing child abuse and they say nothing!!!! Remember a homosexual and a paedophile are not the same and we have now saw exposed many who were in heterosexual relationships but also paedophiles. So yes fight for the ‘definition’ if you wish but people have rights and there are too many issues that need to be addressed and for past 15 years this is the only one I hear pastors consistently discussing together and publicly.
Let’s go after the child molesters, abusive parents and partners, adulterers, you know.. all sinners.
See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
So what is the point of you three stogges??
These gentlemen should read Leviticus. I suspect one or all of them are wearing clothes of more than one fabric? Perhaps they have trimmed their beards or hair? I hope to God that they haven’t ever cursed or blasphemed for then, by God’s law, they must be stoned to death by the community.
Also – in accordance with Deuteronomy, I hope these gentlemen will be visiting any local Jews, Catholics or Muslims with the intent of killing them immediately.
Probably not, eh?
Choose the ones you like, ignore the ridiculous – the outdated?
‘It is fear of yourselves that makes you hate others so much’. Me, 2016.
What I don’t understand is why Christians fear God? The way I understand God is your loving father.
He loves you so long as you worship him (refuse to capitalize “him”). Forsake him and you go to hell for eternity. Of course they fear god (doesn’t exist so no capitals for you) because religious folk are incapable of reading more than one book…
I have absolutely no issue with them defining marriage within the Church, although King Canute comes to mind, however where they cross over into trying to influence non-church things I think I will make my own mind up. They have already set the tone by saying they are rallying against pre and post marital affairs, same-sex unions and paedophilia, I’m guessing the sex before and outside of marriage will be glossed over, and left with the subtle link between being gay and being a paedophile. They are obviously not linked, but whenever you can’t win an argument about being gay, throw in being a paedo and it’s a sure winner.
For the record, being gay isn’t a choice, just as you didn’t wake up one day and make a choice on who to love, men or women! You know who you like, but I bet you have no idea where that desire comes from, it sure as heck doesn’t come from a conscious choice.
BTW if you are to take the Bible as written, pre and post marital affairs are as bad as being a paedophile, which apparently wasn’t a crime until the Bible was translated into English and the original meaning was lost…but I’m no scholar on this stuff so don’t quote me without doing your own research!
what if my natural attraction was to 13yr old girls? I don’t know why I am not attracted to older or more mature women, it’s just that I am naturally attracted to young girls … not my choice, I was just born that way. Do you think society should let me have sex with underage girl simply because that is who I am attracted to and it is not my fault? no, I would be told that regardless of feeling, that behavior is not within the laws of our society and I should abstain.
Why can’t the gay person be required to do the same? why do they get a special pass for their behavior? how far can we extend the “born that way not my fault argument”? serial killers, incest, drug abuse? after all, just acting on my natural instincts right?
this is the slippery road for which I am concerned, open one door and it leads to another, and another and another, next thing you know the entire fabric of society as we know it is in shreds because … people have a right to act out their desires and attractions.
I totally agree. What will be next, husband with 10 wives because he is a Muslim or the Amish with 10 wives all under the age of 16? Why do we have to be like the rest of the world? Why aren’t our laws and our way of life respected?
Soon we will be just like every where else that people are rushing to our shores from. Why can’t we protect what is special to us, our place call home?
You cannot compare child abuse and the mutual decisions of adults! These are two COMPLETLY different things. Making conscious decisions that causes harm vs mutual decision of consenting adults. Do u see the difference?!? There is no slippery slope. Child abuse, domestic abuse, sexual abuse, thievery, assault, murder, these are things that cause HARM to one of the parties. 2 adults choosing to love in the way they wish has no affect on anyone else – other than ignorant, fearful, weak minded and weak spirited people who can’t keep their noses out of other people’s business. What are u fighting for? If u want to protect children then join forces to lobby to protect children. If u want to keep marriage between a man and a woman, that is your choice. But please don’t talk about thing u know nothing about.
If you believe the bible, Mary had Jesus when she was 14 and in India, girls as young as 10 can get married in certain areas.
you say child abuse, they say cultural norm. that is the point, society can shape and label a behaviour/action by the lens through which they choose to view it .
The slippery slope for us is the continual clouding of the lens in the name of modernization and so called human rights.
Slippery slope arguments are truly the pinnacle of laziness.
If you cannot demonstrate that A will lead to or increase the probably of B, then your slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy.
Gay marriage does not increase divorce rates among straight couples. Gay marriage does not increase rates of polygamy or adultery. Gay marriage does not increase rates of sexual assault, pedophilia, child abuse, bestiality, or any number of the other “harms” that are often said to come from it.
The only thing gay marriage increases is gay marriage, which has nothing to do with you.
If you’re worried about this non-existent slippery slope, remember that we draw lines in our laws all the time. You can allow bars to stay open an hour later without allowing children to buy beer on Sundays. You can change the age at which people can obtain a license to drive a car without allowing everyone to have a pilot’s license without adequate training. So too can you let gays marry without forcing ministers to marry them, without condoning polygamy or beastiality or child abuse.
In fact, we’ve already drawn a line in our Constitution that prohibits Cayman from passing or enforcing laws that unjustly discriminate. To prohibit the relationship between two consenting adults from being recognized, and carrying the benefits and burdens, under the law merely because you find it uncomfortable or because it “clouds the lens” through which you view the world is nothing more than bigotry.
Do what you will in your churches. That is your right. But my legal rights should not be diminished based on the level of your comfort.
Such an ignorant analogy 8:04pm
Many forget that by law people here in Cayman, we all have the right to be in a sexual relationship with another consenting adult, of the same sex or opposite sex. Like it or not.
NO ONE should be in a sexual relation ship at any point and time, with a child under the age of consent. Be they hetrosexual or gay.
I am straight and it is not my business at any point and time, what two consenting adults do behind closed doors. Be they gay or not. It is not my, business or anyone else business, what YOU 8:04 pm do in your sex life, providing it is not with a child, its a consenting adult and it’s not done in the public.
Hypocrites some of these churches are, spouting all this nonsense. When day in and day out people in this country are committing adultery, and abusing others, especially children, sexually and physically. And many whilst breaking down church door calling themselves christians.
Gays did not chose to be gays. Do you believe so many would, knowing all the bigotry and hate they would experience? Like it or not the man above… yes God… made some people that way. Leave them alone.
Instead of all this hatefulness, churches should be standing together in an effort to try and stop all the sexual abuse of boys and girls. Not to mention the physical abuse of women and men, also all the adultery that is destroying families in this country. Churches, you, I and others in this community should be standing together, to assist the many families struggling to put food on their tables and pay electricity.
I will be damned if I am going to hate a child I gave birth to, or a sister, brother, cousin, friend or colleague I grew up with, and love. Or have worked with for years, just because they are in a relationship with a consenting adult of the same sex. Load of rubbish.
Put aside your sad off kilter analogies, they do not compare. Put aside all of the hateful bigotry and fight for issues that really matter in this country, instead of stressing about a person sex life.
NOT YOUR OR MY BUSINESS PERIOD. UNLESS GAYS ARE MOLESTING CHILDREN, SEXUALLY HARASSING PEOPLE, OR RAPING..NOT MY OR YOUR BUSINESS. Same applies to heterosexuals sex lives, not my or your business unless same as above.
so is an adulterous relationship not between two consenting adults? why the stigma there?
on the use of the analogy, who decided that 13 yr olds aren’t old enough to make decisions? Society did, the same society that says 18yr olds can drink in a bar here while the US says wait til 21.
The whole point is this, I believe sex with a 13 year old is wrong, that belief is guided by my culture, laws and my society, if I had an inclination to be with one because of my internal urges, my choice would be to either break the law or go somewhere that allows it. I wouldn’t consider it an option to force the people to accept my way because I didn’t chose to be that way.
It is the same with homosexuality, go somewhere that allows it and live in peace, don’t force our society to accept your desires and behavior simply because you have to act out on your feelings.
there are many more examples of where this society does not accept a relationship of two consenting adults. A teacher and a college student, a high ranking Government official and his secretary or intern etc.etc.
Anyway, as Barack Obama said, don’t boo vote, I will be speaking with my vote come next election
Why is it that these people think that gays are all expats? So there are no gay Caymanians?
you sound more stupid every time, stop.
Imagine the shoe is on the other foot, hetrosexual relationships are now illegal/immoral/banned/ridiculed, would you, as you feel now, be able or willing to change your desires to conform? If not, why not.
Stigma is different than taking away someone’s legal rights.
Judge them privately if you’d like, but we do not deny legal rights to that teacher and college student, or to the adulterer that leaves his wife to marry his mistress.
We do deny persons the right to victimize a child, or to beat their wives, because those victims cannot protect themselves. The majority may believe that a woman’s place is in the home, but we also enact laws to protect a woman’s right to work to protect women from that majority view.
The law is not meant to reflect your views. The law is meant to protect individuals *from* your views when your views would deny them equal respect.
Because their consenting adults. You seem to be unable to comprehend that. A 13 yr old isn’t so your point is invalid.
This bunch is so incredibly USELESS! Go sit down.
how i see it, if people want to be gay that’s their business. and if pastors don’t want gays to have laws made against the practice of their religion including who they should marry… then pastors should’nt be trying to have laws made against gay people from living their lifestyle.
that’s being fair
*as for the protection of children, yes, i agree certain laws should be in place.
If they push this you can say goodbye to the Kimpton – check out their LGBT company policy. You can also kiss goodbye to a lot of other potential investment opportunities from companies who will not want to be associated with islands that support an anti-gay posture. I don’t begrudge these church leaders their personal opinions but at the end of the day they’re unelected, unrepresentative and if you follow their religious beliefs (I don’t) have to answer for their actions to God. I’m not sure He (or is it She?) would be too happy about them putting the future of their congregations in jeopardy.
Proud of the ministers for fighting to preserve Cayman culture. We have been separated, torn apart and taught to prejudice our own people. This is not as ill-timed as others have commented, this unity doesn’t come until the correct time, this is the time to fight Or lose the final front to save cayman values, tradition and culture.
Many of you have been brain washed into supporting the globalist agenda. Which is nothing other than a Trojan horse to destroy family, peace, morals and Christianity. All things indigenous Caymanian.
What more peaceful and loving indigenous people is there in the world?
Do you know how many wars are fought in the name of religion? and currently being fought in the name of religion? You can’t make vast sweeping statements that being gay destroys family, peace, morals etc. The ministers made no difference in denouncing being gay and sex before marriage, yet you chose being Gay to rally behind. Wouldn’t sex before marriage and outside of marriage destroy family life and morals more so than being gay? Where’s the full on condemnation of adulters?
News flash ANTI…there’s no such thing as an indigenous Caymanian…we’re all descended from Foreign Stock and I was born to East Ender with generations going back to Slave days…my oldest ancestor in Cayman being an emancipated Slave…..but of course he could not be ‘indigenous’ as with your own ancestors…they were brought (or dragged) here…so not knocking what the population (past and present) have acheived but indigenous…no….not you or I ….I’m still proud of this wonderful Island that me and my ancestors call home but I also know where my roots were planted from…and realize that I could just as easily been ‘indigenous’ to another Country had Slavery not occurred….just saying…
Exactly 2.22pm… that’s why our American Black Brothers and Sisters call themselves African Americans !!… No shame in where you grew up or your ancestry but just don’t try to set yourself apart because you were BORN AND BRED on one little piece of this Earth !! Especially on an Island that was only discovered a few hundred years ago …. We are ALL ‘Ex-Pats’ at the end of the day
“globalist agenda” ANTI?… As 29/7/2016 2.22pm points out… It was the same ‘globalist agenda’ which brought your ancestors and/or you here in the first place – when the Island was essentially uninhabited.
You ARE yourself in essence, an Ex-Pat (or the product of an Ex-Pat) as a result of that “globalist agenda” – so you are really making an argument against your own people and you are really ‘indigenous’ to whichever Country your ancestors came from. (e.g. Although a ‘born Caymanian’, my ancestry takes me back to Ireland or Scotland so I am ‘indigenous’ to one of those Countries). I too, would never want to live anywhere else in the World and I am proud of being a ‘Caymanian’ but realistically, I recognize my ancestry, just as black Americans, which is why the term African American was born – in recognition of their ‘indigenous’ Country.
Why are people always hating on Ex-Pats when that’s what in effect, we ALL are ?
I saw an good explanation of an indigenous people:-
“Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies” – the operative word being ‘pre’
Since Cayman had no ‘pre’colonial and/or ‘pre’-settler societies, then you and/or your ancestors cannot be ‘indigenous Caymanian’.
I agree with you 9.54am… I am ‘Caymanian’ by virtue of my parents who were born here with similar ancestry back to slave days but they relocated shortly after I was born …. it irritates me to hear people discriminating against me because I have a Foreign accent when at the end of the day…my Ancestry probably makes me MORE ‘Caymanian’ than MOST of those people who are ‘hating’ on me. I took out my Family tree – and I can trace my ‘Caymanian’ ancestry ‘far and away’ further back ( like others, to Slave Days) than probably most of the (‘johnny-come lately’s -possiby ANTI (Hi) !) who want to push their ‘true-born-and-bred Caymanianism’ as an argument against me. Like 29/7 6.58pm says … at the end of the day We are ALL ‘ExPats’ – Hey ANTI – check out your ‘Indigenous’ Family – you may get a free trip and lodgings back to your Home Country 🙂
I fully support this if its anything religions should come together to fight against is the legalization of gay marriage god said “we shall re-produce and create more of his children’
two men cannot do this. Speaking for the community I think this is the right move to make we cant allow gay people to do as they feel in public, I have nothing against the decision of a person being gay but if so, should be at their own privacy and not publically as I feel it will cause chaos and many altercations between the gays and the community who doesn’t support it and also corrupt the culture as we Caymanians had grown to learn.
‘god said’ did he really now? Got a Youtube link? lol
That would be the adultery and sex before marriage culture would it? The ones that are as bad as being Gay, right?
Where does anybody say that us gays are going to do “things” in public? We have decorum too and know right from wrong! After all we do not want to frighten the iguanas!!!!
You mean that culture where the church turns a blind eye to those, who are apparently a child of god, from praying on the weak minded husbands of others just to secure their future financially, which in some cases ends in creating an illegitimate child.
I would expect that gay Caymanians will have just about as much procreative intercourse, with or without the legalization of gay marriage.
‘the decision of a person being gay’ ….3.51pm ??? Which planet are you from ?? Do you seriously think that someone would make a conscious decision to adopt a life style which attracted hate and persecution if they had a choice? Their only ‘choice’ would be to ‘lie’ for the rest of their lives.
Presumably, you are not gay – so do you think you could wake up tomorrow and suddenly decide ‘oh , I think I’ll start being gay today???” – Ridiculous isn’t it ??