Animal activists target Carnival’s turtle farm trips
The Cayman Turtle Centre
(CNS): World Animal Protection, the UK-based animal rights charity, is turning its attention to Carnival Cruise Lines as it continues its five-year campaign against the Cayman Turtle Centre (previously the Cayman Turtle Farm). This week WAP has launched a petition calling on the leading cruise line to stop sending visitors to the CTC. The charity accused the cruise company of turning a blind eye to the “shocking conditions” in which the endangered turtles are kept, and said most guest were not aware of the cruel conditions.
The petition urges Carnival to “put the welfare of endangered sea turtles ahead of profit and stop sending unwitting tourists to this cruel attraction in the Cayman Islands”, the charity said in a release Tuesday.
Despite a long campaign report outlining some of the worrying incidents at the CTC, where thousands of turtles have died as a result of poor husbandry, neglect and disease, the various revelations have had little impact. While the charity is calling for the Turtle Centre to be converted into a conservation facility, despite changing its name again last year and dropping the word “farm”, the animals are still bred for meat.
There have been some improvements at the facility, which is currently home to around 8,000 animals. But since the charity began its focused and intensive campaign, exposing the overcrowded, unhygienic conditions, the poor and unnatural diet, and even cannibalism among the endangered animals, the CTC it is still a popular tourist attraction. The charity’s efforts to persuade government to ban the sale of meat to tourists has failed, and although not all restaurants serve turtle, it is still on the menu in many places.
While a report suggested that almost three quarters of the people living in Cayman never eat turtle, there are still concerns that the demand for it without the farm would be a genuine threat to the survival of the limited number of turtles in local waters. Even with the farm, poaching is not uncommon, especially during the summer breeding nesting season. In addition, recent reports from the Department of Environment suggest that the past release of some turtles from the farm into the wild has proved effective, as those turtles have returned to local beaches, boosting the local nesting populations.
However, the Turtle Centre still dents a significant hole in the annual local budget. As well as still paying off the loan taken to rebuild and expand the current centre, during the 2015/16 fiscal year the farm made a loss of more than $6 million, which had to be covered with tax payers’ cash.
Despite getting little traction in Cayman from either the farm, the DoE, the restaurant community or local people, the WAP is not giving up on trying to stop the farming of turtles and transition to a genuine sea turtle and release facility.
“Despite years of bluster and sidestepping the issue it is abundantly clear that the Cayman Turtle Centre has no intention of addressing the ongoing cruelty at the facility in a meaningful manner,” said Neil D’Cruze, Senior Wildlife Advisor at World Animal Protection. “A cynical rebrand cannot cover the fact that turtles are still being mishandled for selfies and remain crammed into tanks with on-going injuries and disease.”
He said it was a cruel attraction that represents a potential threat to sea turtle conservation,
“We are convinced Carnival Cruise Line passengers would refuse to visit the Centre if only they knew the truth,” the animal charity representative said. “We believe that there are more effective ways to conserve endangered sea turtles that do not involve this kind of unnecessary cruelty. We hope that the Centre will finally realise that it must make a transition to become a proper sea turtle rescue and rehabilitation facility,” he added.
Category: Local News
My next door neighbor eats turtles and he also eats the mud turtle (Hikati? not sure how to spell this word)
I Tried the sea turtle meat, I dont like it, but lots of people love it!
Farming is carried out for practically everything we eat, all meats, a life of fish, most fruit and veg. Whilst I agree that animal farming needs to be humane, I don’t get why these people are sticking their noses in here. That farm saves wild turtles. It’s a cayman tradition. I am British and if anyone tried to tell me I couldn’t have my roast lamb, beef or turkey I would be feeding them to the turtles.
CNS: You didn’t mention cod. Makes me wonder if you are actually British.
It’s very VERY simple!
They are liberals tyrannic hacks that won’t be happy until everyone subscribes to their regime and world view. Be it turtle, what you’re supposed to eat, what they consider offensive talk and hate speech, politics, religious views, political views, sexual opinions and the whole lot. You either submit to their way of thinking or pay the consequences.
Further, basically Liberals do not respect other people’s cultures, liberties or sovereignty unless it aligns with their (usually political) worldview and emotions.
A country which depends heavily on tourism to provide jobs for its people to make an honest living its very disturbing that these clowns are trying to damage one of the main pillars in our economy. CTC and Stingray City are the two main attractions visitors come to see and these idiots are trying to damage that. I agree with the previous writer they are terrorist plain and simple and its time we fight back Cayman is for us Caymanians and we need to take a stand once and for all..
UK are trying to ruin Cayman because we are better of than them. For those U K people that are here, that will disagree, what are they doing here then ?
WAP is a terroristic organization trying to destroy one of main economic pillars “Tourism”. Several hundred Caymanians depend on CTC to make a living and I’m not talking about the employees of the facility hundreds others from various businesses and many other stake holders who take tourist to this facility and make an honest living. Its a shame our Govt. sits back and does nothing to prevent this kind of organization from doing the damage they are doing to our economy. If WAP is successful in having Carnival stop doing business with CTC then we will have hundreds of Caymanians out of work what will Govt. do then once the horse is already out the gate?
These Caymanians have mortgages and families they have to provide for and where will the money come from? WAP needs to concentrate in the UK with all the rubbish that’s going on in their own back yard before coming to Cayman and trying destroy one of our main economic pillars its disgraceful. We need to send all their expat supporters back to their own suffering nations its downright deplorable for them to come to this county and tell us what we cant and cant do this is our country our forefathers build this now they want to come and reap the benefits of our hard work its sickening!!. Turtles has been a part of our history and culture from day one and no expat or their organization should have the right to come here and tell us what we can and should do or eat. Its high time Caymanians stand together and defend this attack on our country, culture and human right as the PPM is sitting back and doing absolutely nothing to protect our country and the rights of its citizens shameful if you ask me!
Has Govt. issued any formal statement in defense of this attack on our country and one of its main economic pillars NO!! And why not?? This is very serious and cannot and shouldn’t be taken lightly these idiots can destroy our nation with the rubbish they are trying to do they could care less how many people are out of work and loosing their homes etc.
What is no surprise to see that people come here to tell us about the problems we have but they couldn’t fix their own. Let me explain something to you. I will eat turtle meat because with that I don’tnneed to support big PHARMA and buy their goods( VIAGRA). THANKS.
If these are false claims, then why doesn’t the Turtle Centre issue a statement, or restrain WPA legally in some way, or is the strategy to sit back and wait until they submit this petition to Carnival and destroy our Cruise Tourism product? WPA are a sizable operation with International Hubs in 14 countries (this petition is a lead campaign item on most of the international sites – reaching millions of people), recorded total income of £34.5m (2014). This is why we need decisive leadership in the LA. Our headwinds are only going to get stronger and we need sophisticated adults in charge to confront these challenges and protect our economy. We are far too easy a target with our usual dummies running the show. If the claims are true (and they seem plausible enough), we need to own up, and fix the problems. Standing still or belittling the chicken or cattle industry isn’t going to make this go away.
How does World Animal Protection become WPA and not WAP?
CNS: Sorry. An error on our part.
To be fair, conditions on a Carnival cruise are similar to those at the Turtle Farm.
You’re an idiot.
I totally gee with you!! I would never go on a Carnival cruise again!!
So sheep are not sickly eh?
What about scrapie and swollen head diseases!
http://www.developmentvet.aun.edu.eg/2.pdf
I don’t eat sheep either. But just because they can be sickly too, doesn’t make our turtle situation any better, now does it?
foreigners trying take everything from us.
A boycott of everything foreign is in order. Start with food and fuel.
People, please.
Stop keeping these poor creatures penned up. Keep half a dozen for show hoping the sharks don’t eat them, but for God’s sake, the days of turtle meat are over.
Go catch a fish FFS.
Are the days of chicken, fish, beef, goat, lamb etc done as well? It is nature, we eat animal flesh! Will all these intefering do-gooders stop trying to tell other people how to live. It is bad enough with government regulation of just about every aspect of our lives, cctv surveillance, and now WPA trying to meddle. Can WPA please tell us what the survival rate is for turtles born in the wild, and how that compares with that of the Turtle Centre?
Just another form of what was formerly called colonialism! You no longer rule by military might, but you want to control by whatever means and impose your standards on other people.
We do not need to eat animal flesh at all actually.
People should be free to choose what the hell they want to eat without being subject to the dictates of others. IT IS CALLED FREEDOM!
Actually, I am very anti-colonial, but pro-turtle. There are many of us. Hope that helps? In fact, since my daughter became a vegetarian of her own volition at age 6, I am seriously thinking of following in her footsteps.
The child has a massive empathy towards Creation. Even the wild chickens come to her.
She has a roosting hen (Brownie) right now just sitting on a bunch of eggs.
She had a rescue white-winged dove that stayed with us for a year. Boy, I really miss Dovey.
Give the turtles a better life. There is no need.
I think that there are a few different issues going on here that are muddying the waters (kind of like the pools at the Turtle Centre). Most would probably agree that appropriate efforts to preserve an endangered species are laudable. Many would agree that farming an animal that is not endangered for the purposes of eating it is okay provided it is done properly and humanely. It isn’t even too much of a leap to think it’s okay to farm an endangered animal if it helps conservation in the long run by preventing poaching (some actual enforcement with real penalties would help there too, but that is an issue for another day).
The problem lies with the effort to combine these activities with a tourist attraction. There are some nice aspects to it but overall it is overpriced (and most of the entry fee for the cruise shippers is kicked back to the cruise line), looking at the overcrowded tanks full of sickly turtles is depressing, many of the staff are often surly, the food in the restaurant is marginal at best and sometimes attractions like the snorkel pool are so disgustingly dirty that you’d be risking disease to get in (really, just grab a snorkel and get into the ocean for free, it’s far better). All of this at a cost that is heavily subsidised by the local tax paying population.
WPA might be going overboard a bit with their histrionics, but I think that part of the reason they seem to upset so many is because there is a kernel of truth in what they say. Turtling is an important part of Cayman heritage, yes – but fleecing tourists (and locals, through taxes) to see animals being mistreated at a two star facility really shouldn’t be.
The facility needs to stop rebranding and sort out its reason for being once and for all. Streamline it and make it, if not profitable, at least break even, even if that means just focussing on conservation and farming and closing it to tourists. Cayman is at a real crossroads in terms of preserving its resources and practising real conservation – the opportunity to be at the forefront of these efforts in the region is quickly slipping away and facilities and controversies like this one, and the deeply defensive responses to WPA’s criticisms, are not helping.
Whales being killed, Canadian seals being clubbed, large trawling nets raping the oceans of the world, gorillas being hunted to extinction, rhino and elephants killed for their tusks…..but wait, oh no let’s focus on the Cayman’s, they are farming those turtles and eating them!!!
Unbelievable.
Big fat plate of abomination for you. Turtles ? suppose to clean the ocean if you didn’t know
Yeah,so are the lobsters,there actually consider the roaches of the ocean
Plenty of protest and outrage about those too. Not just Cayman and its turtle farm. It’s the poor way the turtles are treated that’s the problem, not the concept of farming them per se.
No. WAP has stated that they will accept no farming of turtles. Ever. In any form. Even if it was a ‘good’ husbandry farm. – Other than that (WAP) you are correct.
Does one wrong make another right? Nope
CNS I can understand the ignorance of your readers who post rubbish like the turtles at Cayman Turtle Centre are disease ridden and sickly as they may not know any better, however, you are a news organization and the answer to these questions are available to you with a minimum of effort.
With a simple FOI request to the DOE or the DEH you can get the facts that the Cayman Turtle Centre has regular inspections of ALL aspects of its operation, including physical inspections of the turtles, the methods of harvesting and the operation of it’s abattoir.
You CNS can easily get assurances that there are NO diseased turtles at CTC, indeed there are conclusive university studies that have been published that prove that turtles at CTC are more than 85% less diseased than turtles in the wild.
The Cayman Turtle Centre is the only livestock farm in Cayman with a full time veterinarian on staff. That full time vet works closely with US universities to test and screen turtles at CTC to ensure that their stock as well as the turtles they release are healthy and disease free.
Cayman Turtle Centre is one of the ONLY turtle research and conservation centers in the world and is responsible, by supplying a ready, clean, professionally produced edible turtle meat, for us having any nesting turtles at all left in the Cayman Islands as the first turtles to be pouched are nesting females that crawl on the beach to lay their eggs.
A recent independent study, through DNA testing, has proven that over 50% of the wild nesting population in the Cayman Islands have DNA that can be directly traced to Cayman Turtle Centre.
WAP needs to be less disingenuous when they recommend that CTC become solely a research and conservation center as they are well aware that CTC has led the field over the past 40 years in this regard and the 50% of wild turtles with Cayman Turtle Centre DNA is as a result of the over 31,000 turtles that CTC has released over the past 35 years.
WAP (and CNS) also had at its disposal the study that the British Government commissioned that proves that if CTC stops supplying edible turtle meat that turtles will be taken from the wild for this purpose and in very short order the 50 reproducing females that nest on the Cayman Islands beaches will disappear with no chance of repopulating the wild if CTC is shut down.
The provision of readily available, clean, regulated turtle meat for consumption is in fact one of the biggest contributions to conservation that has been put in place for Cayman and is the reason that nesting adult numbers continue to grow year to year.
CNS I understand your need for sensational news, however there are many successes coming out of CTC that, if you are going to be fair, you could publish. You could also avail yourselves of the updated information that show there are no diseased turtles at CTC, instead you continue to reprint comments from WAP that at best refer to an incidence that occurred over 10 years ago and had nothing to do with the age turtles that are harvested.
A more balanced story would benefit with educating your readership as to the many benefits provided, through its research into turtle lifecycle to the Cayman Islands by Cayman Turtle Centre.
So why is this post anonymous? It reads like a press release from an informed source. If these are scientific facts then please do the correct scientific thing by posting your name.
Thanks.
Anon 8:50. Do you mean……………like you just did? LOL.
The same reason you posted anonymously!!
Stop eating sheep you bloody blokes they are gentle loving animals.Then we will stop eating turtle. Mate.
The sheep aren’t sickly and disease ridden. Big difference! Lamb chops over turtle any day, bredrin.
Neither is Turtle Farm turtles nor their turtle meat. I don’t know what makes you so sure about the lamb cops you enjoy eating………. try Google bobo.
Unna na figuring out why every blasted one of unna dying from cancer? Eating abominations ?
That’s not what we do with sheep, bobo.
We know, unna have better uses…..ROFL
And besides that’s in New Zealand where men are men and sheep are scared
Pretty straightforward with a sheep but how does it work with a turtle?
These poor old sickly turtles, time to end this culture farce. STOP EATING SICKLY TURTLES, the hell is wrong with unna?
Everybody knows how to cure or solve our social ills, but cannot even mention, less have a say in their countries problems or solutions. Time to drain our swamp.
Two words: SICKLY TURTLES.
World Animal Protection is all about money! The more they complain the more money the raise.. to live a lifestyle that poor working people, who give them lots of money cab’t afford…
I’d rather eat turtle than iguanas(lizards),cats and dogs,like what some cultures here are a custom to.
Thank you guys! As a Caymanian I support animal welfare and I agree that it is time to end this disgusting practice and shut that dirty disgusting hell hold down once and for all. I am ashamed of some fellow Caymanians.
So no eggs/beef/pork/etc for your then either? Ever been to an egg production chicken farm????
The Turtles are sick and disease ridden, due to how they are being cared for at the Turtle Farm. Get over yourself.
It’s not about the type of meat, it is how the animal is treated, the conditions it lives in, and the way the place is run.
It’s not even that. Turtles are endangered. All the other animals mentioned are not.
They live better than some people here!
Actually I have a plant based diet so no, I don’t support any of those either!
Carnival would send people to hell, as long as they get most of the money for the tour. Oh wait, I think they’re already doing that…..
If the facility was repurposed towards measurable conservation of endangered species (in the context of 2017), there would be corporate and NGO funding for the facility and the people of the Cayman Islands would be hailed as heroes. We’d also spare $10mln a year in CIG bailouts that could be better spent on missing social programs that contribute to our multi-generational cycle of unwanted pregnancies and crime. These are the same criminals that would poach the turtles from the wild, run guns and drugs, shoot people, and invade homes for rape and burglary.
No. No there would not be “corporate and NGO funding for the facility” if it were ‘re-purposed’. Because the Farm would NOT achieve “measurable conservation of endangered species”. The Farm, in terms of 2017, does nothing for wild turtle populations other than reduce social acceptance of poaching. More turtles die in trawl nets, etc., than the Farm can ever release. So the Farm has no impact on the regional/international turtle population. (And the turtle NGOs don’t want releases for biological reasons.) It does have some impact on the local population through animals returning to breed in the wild (but remember loggerhead numbers are up as well and the Farm doesn’t release those) and most importantly removing any cultural acceptance of poaching since you can still get legal turtle meat. That is its primary ‘measurable conservation’ purpose. (PS> Again because of international trends even if we poached out all of our local green turtles we wouldn’t significantly affect the international multi-decadal recovery of green turtles around the world. though we may delay it slightly since given time, lets say another 30 years, Cayman could eventually once again have a significant breeding population of green turtles. Provided we still have enough light-free beaches for safe breeding.)
Speaking of cruel and barbaric, don’t tell them that we have not one, but TWO dolphinariums! Those have nothing to do with Caymanian culinary tradition!
WPA,
Where were you when we had Hurricane Michelle which totally destroyed our facility? Did you send Cayman any funds to save our turtle population? Or after Hurricane Ivan to assist us in the general welfare of them when our economy was decimated – see the ECLAC report please.
We were totally isolated for hundreds of years, and received very little development aid from you the British. We had to survive like Columbus did when he discovered Las Tortugas and thus had no choice but to make turtle our national dish. It is now part of our culture. So kindly cease and desist and respect that.
Stop imposing your values on others who are clearly different from you. After all we do not sleep with cats and dogs or call them our children.
Your attitude is colonialist and antiquated, and speaks with an air of superiority that you know best what we need to do.
Mind your own business and sort out your own country’s problems first.
Yeah, I agree with WPA @ 8:43am
Speak for yourself I sleep with my dog and am sick of seeing people tying up their dogs outside and never paying them attention.
I’m for the WPA but I don’t believe they are against turtle meat as food, they just feel that the Turtle Farm isn’t a proper farm and is badly managed so that the turtles don’t get the right habitat to live in. And that doesn’t surprise me at all.
Anon 12:56. Check your facts. Turtle Farm is regulated and inspected by DEH on a regular basis and goes above and beyond the legal requirements that govern all livestock production on the Island.
They also have at least one full time qualified vet on staff which is more than any meat, pork or chicken producer on Island has.
This disease that WAP keeps harping about happened over 10 years ago and was isolated to a particular age group of turtles that were well below harvesting age, so no diseased turtle meat has ever been sold through the Turtle Farm.
There is two sides to every story and it would be beneficial to all if you and CNS tried to educate yourself in the operations of the Turtle Farm before parroting WAP.
WAP has an agenda and that is to drive their funding stream, so we should never expect them to be fair and balanced about turtle conservation. They see Cayman as an easy target with a wealthy audience, otherwise they would concern themselves with the 250,000 turtles that are killed and discarded by the fishing industry as accidental kills in their nets. They would also concern themselves with the over 30,000 that are harvested from the wild in Mexico and eaten each year.
At least the Turtle Farm do not harvest turtles from the wild and in fact increase the wild population annually through their release and nest relocation efforts.
” No diseased turtle meat has ever been sold through the Turtle Farm.”
If you believe that, I have a beautiful 2017 custom 60 foot yacht that I will sell to you for $5000.
Deal.
No. WPA have unequivocally stated that their goal is to shut down the turtle farm. They do not believe that turtles can be farmed. (Because its not done in first world countries.) There is no middle ground. If you magically overnight made the Turtle Farm a paragon of healthy farming WAP would still object to the actual farming of turtles. The Farm just makes it easy for them through repeated bad husbandry practices.
Don’t let Mr Eden hear you sleep with your dog.
I tell you but some obeah on them dat will fix dey bizzness!
time to phase this turtle farm out now!! it has served its purpose!
“Served it’s purpose”? What is the “purpose”? Taking the ten million dollars per year from the government’s coffers to enrich the operators of the farm? It makes one wonder how many politicians are feeding at this trough.
Cns please stop postin comments from persons/entities who know nothing of the Cayman Islands culture. Caymanians had to make too many changes to accomadate too many others already.
If a change means ending animal cruelty I’m Caymanian and all for it! It is no use to continue to torture these animals based on “heritage”. We can be a better version of Cayman, no need to hold onto he bad habits!
If eating endangered creatures is culture, you ain’t got a culture.
Pressure will always have to come from the US or the UK as the backwards attitude to the abuse of turtles is too engrained for local politicians to touch it.
Dear UK-based WAP,
There are reports of a worrying rise in hate-crimes against immigrants in your country. Foreigners are being physically injured and even killed at the hands of hamburger-eating, White, Christian, Brits … in 2017.
Kindly address and sort out the dysfunction within the human species in your own country before lecturing to other countries about perceived animal rights.
In fact, if you shut the eff up for a second and observe our society you may learn a thing or two about how to absorb, welcome, and live amongst other people.
Best of all, we can end your visit with a nice turtle stew and wash it down with a cold lemonade.
Many thanks in advance.
Sincerely,
Whodats
Do Rastas even eat turtle?
Whodats, you are a sick puppy! I’m sure there aren’t many Caymanians like you!
Yeah, maybe WAP should rescue me.
😀
By saying “shut the eff up” doesn’t seem welcoming at all….
I disagree. You can end animal cruelty and human suffering. Why are you doing to help anyone or anything??
Most likely more than you or WAP are doing to protect human foreigners in their home country.
I rather be perceived for cruelty against turtles than known for killing fellow human beings.
Then again, it won’t be the first time the UK has literally prioritised the lives of turtles over those of (non-Anglo) human beings.
(Do your research.)
– Whodatis
We know you hate the Anglo Saxons, telk us how you feel about others. Jamaicans maybe?
I guarantee you do nothing for anybody- clearly you’re kind of a deplorable person
Because when I think of you ‘ welcoming ‘ is the first word that comes to mind . Another borderline racist anti UK rant from an ignoramus who believes throwing around words like ‘ colonialism ‘ makes him the voice of the people . I believe you do more towards uniting local and ex pat communities than anyone , united in the belief of what an embarrassment you are to decent Caymanians.
Yes guys,
I know the truth can be painful and upsetting. However, while your personal attacks help you feel better, they do nothing to negate the reality.
Y’all be good now.
– Whodatis
*Where did I say “colonialism”? (Strange comment. Must be one of my many groupies.)
**Highlighting the evil deeds of another does not equate to hating them. Your conclusion thereof is quite interesting however. Could mean a bunch of things but I haven’t the time or care to explore further.
So because WAP are UK based, you feel you can associate them with the actions of a minority of UK individuals, which are entirely unrelated to the issue at hand. I may as well says you are a Caymanian, so you shouldn’t criticise WAPs views on animal cruelty whilst C some Caymanians discriminate against gays. About as logical or fair.
Why don’t they go and bury their heads in the 7 mile beach. But this is where the Leader of government should have a word with them WPA .
The DOE would rather waste our money on a futile and cruel iguana cull that only benefits a few. Why don’t they spend money on conserving our endangered species and enforcing the laws to keep them safe?
10:32 pm, your brain must be in upside down. I am feed up with the iguana problem. I enjoy being outside planting and taking care of my crops and plants, but the destruction and havoc that the iguanas are reeking on crops or plants is simply digusting. They are eating the very flowers from the garden. You would rather have the iguanas eat us and destroy everything around.
I work hard and expect to reap the fruits of my labour, not one who is with out-stretched hands for government hand out. Iguanas are PESTS imported here from Honduras.
Just give me my turtle stew.
Eww. You do know that the turtles at the Turtle Farm are sickly and disease ridden right!?
World Animal Protection – I have a great suggestion for you. Please charter three British Airways 777 aircrafts and come to the Cayman Islands and collect all of our green iguanas, take them back to the UK and care for them…….. since you all have so much love and concern for the welfare of animals around the world.
Please do this and then we will actively discuss the welfare of our turtles at the Cayman Turtle Center.
9:07 pm, let those bad asses come and we donk them into the pools with the turtles. And all the problems they say are wrong with breeding and having them in captivity will go away or get worse. WPA need an seat on a rocket.
They are presumptuos predators, who want to dictate and tell people what to eat, well they have a long time to interfere and demand for Caymanians or the visitors who choose to eat turtle, to STOP. Time for WPA to deal with terrorism and Brexit.
I wish these people would take their butts down to South America and try this conservation crap there.
But alas the can’t. They dont have the nuts to do that. They know they would end up dead in an hour.
Anybody really worried about these turtles would go there and see what goes on.
Mass butchering of wild turtles of any kind on an industrial scale. Complete destruction from eggs to mature adults and everything in between.
I know someone who was there and took pictures of the situation. They even showed over 150 tags that came off the turtles.
The governments down there tax it, so they wont stop it.
You want to do something, go there. Do something there. Stop trying to be opportunists.
Oh shut up. Worry about your school shootings and terrorism.
That’s mature and intelligent. Some people aren’t worth the air they breathe.
Oh BTW in terms of culture and hygiene, we wash our hands after using the WC.