Dart hotel exceeds ten storey maximum
Dart hotel under construction
(CNS): The planning minister has admitted that the Dart hotel buildings being constructed on the West Bay road are in fact 12 stories and not the maximum of ten, as stated in the planning law. Kurt Tibbetts said, however, that it was still lawful because the developer had built up the grade at the ground level to create two basement floors. He said the buildings complied with the law but the legislation may need to be reviewed.
Answering a parliamentary question from Ezzard Miller, the independent member for North Side, Thursday, the minister said the law currently measures the building height from the grade and not the original contours of the land. By filling and lifting up the grade, the developer will have ten stories above ground but another two below, meaning the buildings will be higher than any others on the island.
Miller queried whether this was a dangerous precedent, as he said allowing this lifting of the grades by filling in land had led to people rising homes in his constituency. He described one private residence under construction in Rum Point where some ten feet of fill had been laid across the entire plot in order to elevate the home above all the others in the area and that the fill was falling into surrounding properties.
Asking the minister to supply figures for the exact height, the independent member raised his concern about where this could lead and said the law should be revised to redefine the height definition in the law so that measuring started from the original contours of land and not from new grades created by tens of feet of fill. Miller pointed out that people could raise buildings to wherever they wanted with fill and then start building enabling them to circumvent the laws in place designed to control the heights of buildings.
Tibbetts acknowledged that he too had some concerns and it was as a result of queries about some properties in North Side that he became aware of the situation with the Dart hotel and he said he had already spoken to ministry officials about reviewing the law to see if it was a practice that the government wished to allow to continue. He said that the hotel plans had been reviewed by the planning department but as the law stood at present the buildings complied.
He added that he did not want to “fly off the handle” over the issue, which was already in motion before he took over the ministry, but he was taking a careful look and if an amendment to the legislation was required he would do it.
Category: development, Local News
That is what happened in Bermuda. They went after the rich and famous for tourism and now their tourism is very low. You used to be able to fly to BDA and stay reasonably, but now you can go to Jamaica, DR, PR etc. for a week all inclusive for what it costs to stay in Bermuda for 2 nights. Where do people go? Not Bermuda!
are they going to put 10 storeys above this above ground tunnel they’re now wanting to build between camana bay and west bay road? how high will that be in reality? is anyone paying attention anymore? as to those expressing concerns about dart’s pink hotel filling its rooms at high prices….just look at camana bay….they’re falsely supporting businesses in there all the time….money to burn these guys…..the hotel will be a roaring success whether its full or not! these guys are in a different universe to the rest of us…..glad i’m not a hotel owner…..i’d be crying
So helicopter rescues are no good either and therefore my thoughts on staying low to the ground are even more so. Thank you for doing the search.
I don’t believe GC has helicopters that could do roof rescues like some of the big cities and the hook and ladder truck (if GC has one) would not reach past the 8th floor, if that , so I would prefer not to stay on those higher levels. If you are comfortable staying on higher floors- go for it.
Re: flying- If I had a preference to get there in a way that was proven safer than flying, I would take it, but since there is not one, I have to travel that method. wise$#@
Sorry you feel the need to be abusive, but the fact is that rescue ladders on fire trucks are not a significant factor in dealing with fire rescues in modern high-rises.
A brief internet search of roof top rescues provides the following:
“If exiting down stairs takes so long, am I better off going up to the roof and waiting to be rescued there?”
“No. Many of us have seen dramatic video of helicopters picking up occupants from the roof of a burning building. This is an extraordinarily dangerous procedure for the occupants, the pilots and firefighters who may be in the building. First, a helicopter may not come to rescue you, thus ascending to the roof instead of descending to grade may have wasted valuable time. This is not a standard procedure in the U.S., or in most foreign countries. In severe fires, the large thermal currents, generated by the heat from the fire, can cause the helicopter to be buffeted up or down, making it hard to control. The resulting down thrust from the helicopter rotor can force smoke and super heated air on top of fire suppression personnel. Most building designs incorporate numerous features that direct occupants to the street or grade level for evacuation purposes.”
Fire trucks with long ladders just aren’t part of the picture.
While I don’t care for some of the reporting by CNS and Cayman Compass which I believe are sometimes written not to convey different journalistic perspectives but rather influence or incite a certain response this is a case in point.
Whereas, I am mostly supportive of Dart as a good investor – how the hell did he get away with this?
And where is the outrage and venom against the planning authority that the Compass so-called Editorial Board is known for when it comes to the civil service and their relentless diatribe and attacks against this public entity?
The sad irony is that I have been refused CO for less than this and in one instance where a minor change was made (and trust me it wasn’t like adding on an extra room), I had to have plans redrawn and resubmitted and when the inspector visited he wouldn’t do an inspection without the approved revised plans available on site. No wonder why we the diminishing middleclass know that we are not getting a fair shake and the politicians and Chamber of Commerce don’t give a damn so long as we buy Cayman and continue to vote the same cronies and self-serving political parties, including the so-called independents into office.
This is just one more disgusting and annoying example of how money talks and that “other stuff” walks, and how rich people/companies have a different set of rules than the ordinary man. I am just sick and tired of these unfair practices. Thank you to a previous premier for allowing this billionaire to do as he pleases, money talks, and the hands of future law makers are tied and powerless to do anything about it because of the power the rich have been given by that greedy and selfish former leader. To hell man, it is sickening and disgusting!!
Who contributes more to Cayman? Dart or gasbag buzzard miller? Seriously? His concern and main contribution to Cayman is that Dart’s building is too tall?
“Contributes” isn’t the word you want. Mr. Dart is WELL COMPENSATED for everything he has done “for” Cayman.
who gives a f@@@!more jobs for the Jamaicans,Canadians our governments and our authorities made sure of that.
I remember the Dart’s Jackie Doaks / Miller debate on Rooster a few years ago, it was embarrassing, Jackie busted ezzard rass on air, educated him publicly about the basics of the economy in general and he choose to run, refused to continue the debate saying he only agreed to a certain amount if time, pathetic.
I would not want to stay in a building taller than Cayman Islands hook and ladder fire truck.
Why? Do you think they have 1000 ft tall ladder trucks in other countries with 100+ story buildings? I guess you don’t fly in aircraft that get more than 5 feet off the ground unless you have a parachute!
Most bloggers on here seem to agree that zoning language should be in place for all three islands.
We Brackers still wonder why Cleveland was never allowed to put in his marina. More jobs in construction. Safe harbor for boats that come and go.
Would love to hear a comment or two on this.
In regard to height restrictions, it was stated that the Bahamas and the Cayman Islands were told that because they “sit” on a ridge that height restrictions should be strictly maintained. There are words like collapse.
We do not have granite foundations like neither Doha, Qatar nor Manhattan that boast some of the cutting edge world tallest.
Has anyone out there read up on any Caribbean area height recommedations.
We could reason, also, that Mount Trashmore is over twelve stories. Mr. Tibbetts is right.
So, a building with rooms weighs less than the dump does and we could reason that the Dart Corporation would be doing everyone a huge favor to help put in a shield on the bottom with proper vents for methane gasses escaping.
Grand Cayman has grown and is in need of urban planners that can have residential, commercial and other mixed use properties coexist and transition each other nicely.
Many of us feel that forward thinkers like Mr. McLaughlin and Mr. Tibbetts are responsible for the appreciated waterfront, downtown up grades. Visitors and residents all benefit from a good ambiance and reflect the fine character of the people of the Cayman Islands.
The traffic is another challenge. Mr. Hew’s ideas are all good and people writing letters to these leaders with their constructive remarks is the way for solutions.
Alden and Kurt “forward thinkers”? Joke of the day! Miss Cayman Brac Comedian, thanks for a good laugh!
Cleveland is free to put in his marina just as soon as he pays for a proper scientific study that concludes that it is a good idea for the Brac, even when factoring in all of the potential repercussions. A scribble on the back of a napkin is not good enough when there is so much at stake.
Bodden Town used to have a wonderful public beach. About 20 years ago, the government cut a channel without proper scientific consideration. Since then, the shoreline has dramatically eroded away. Aerial photos from the last few decades show the massive impact that the channel has had.
Is that what you want for Carib Sands, the Brac Reef and all the other tourist properties to the west of Dilbert’s Marina? Massive erosion or other negative consequences might or might not happen, but the decision to cut the channel should be made based on good, hard scientific information, not on who has the biggest mouth, or for political expediency.
Planning rules are for the average homeowner. The inspectors who roam the country have draconian powers to shut down your build and will do so if so much as one plug socket is out of place on a wall. But if you are a big developer they are as meek and mild as can be.
Well you know what they say: “Money talks, and Bull spit walks.”
The laws don’t need to change but the edumacation level of those who are commenting on them do. But obviously not in their life time Bobo.
I am all for controlled development, and Cayman needs developments like this to drag it into the 21st century. Not one mention made on here about the expanded beach and facilities near this hotel, just Cayman style “lets find something to criticise because we are an island of 30,000 home grown architects and landscape experts”
Given the shortage of hotel rooms and pricing currently we should be grateful that someone has the balls to build and employ Cayman people
LOL, they can build ’em as tall as they like but unless the room rates come down to a level where we are competing with all the other destinations in the region it doesn’t mean a thing.
I don’t know what Dart are planning to charge to stay in this monstrosity but you can bet the room rate will be in the US$350-$400 a night range, which puts it outside the budget of many prospective visitors.
If you look into Kimpton Hotels you will find that they are very much aligned with the gay community. DINKs (double income no kids) will be able to manage that sort of charge easily and with their own beach in front of the property it will appear to be a bargain.
BREAKING NEWS————-Kimpton are now marketing their Cayman hotel exclusively towards Ireland’s 1.5 million people who voted for equal marriage to same sex couples last week.
Cant wait to see next years St Patricks Day Parade in Georgetown, a huge sea of pink and green scantily clad men and women, (same as Batabano with different accents)
It’s going to be fabuuullooous!!!!!!!!!
Hey Gurrlll!!!
That last sentence was clearly written by someone who has never worked in the travel industry and (like most of our MLAS and just about everyone at DoT) doesn’t understand the way recent trends have impacted the ‘room only’ hotel market in this region.
Simple rule – people will not pay $350-$400 a night here (plus their flights, transfers, food and drinks) when they can stay in Jamaica, Cuba, the DR, Mexico and a number of other places in this region on all-inclusive deals for between $1000 and $1800 per person, all-inclusive including their flights.
DINK’s won’t see it as a bargain, their reaction will be, “WTF do you think I am, stupid?”
You want to check out hotels.com for mid-June and see how hard the current hotels here are already discounting (and it gets a lot worse in September) trying to fill the rooms – just think what that will be like if, as is being predicted, another 5000 rooms are going to be added.
The ‘if we build it, they will come’ concept that prevails here is not only a misquote of the original movie dialogue but complete and utter BS. I worked in a resort where this happened, in the end the hotels were selling off rooms to package tour operators for $50 a night just to try and keep up with the interest payments on their financing. I was actually there when the owner of one property was evicted.
6:52 I have stayed in over a half a dozen Kimptons in the U.S. over the past five years and have found Kimptons to be superb boutique hotels. I also have a wife and kids so I suggest you stay in a Kimpton before making such ludicrous statements as you have made.
Cayman will be fortunate to have such a high end boutique hotel here.
I agree, having also stayed at Kimptons in several major U.S. cities. They are just whimsically decorated, quiet downtown places. If you want the flamboyant, all night party crowd, stay at a “W”.
Presumably, it will be within the budget of visitors who can afford $350 – $400 a night. Why would that be a problem? Cayman would be better off to attract 100,000 such stayover visitors than 1,000,0000 Carnival Walmart cruisers.
oh CaymanKind!
This really makes it obvious who all is on Dart pay roll .
What happens if there is a fire on the ninth floor, is the fire department equipped to land a ladder up there? Anyone think about this, Mr.dart?
Uh Sharkey the ground level has been raised so there are two levels of underground parking so above the earth there will only be 10 floors and no the Fire Department equipment is not much good past 5 floors or so.
Shouldn’t Dart purchase fire trucks that can reach to the top floors .
I assume you are bored and feel like joking right?
Don’t worry! The building will be insured.
I swear someone edited this to say ninth floor. It was 12th before.
Is not the Government Admin’ building on Elgin Ave on significantly raised level above grade level? Was this known & approved by planning? Tear it down ……
Maybe that’s why Dart wants Trashmore. Can you imagine how many floors on / in Trashmore? LOL.
Ahhhhh boy, that bunch will always find a way to run circles around the bunch of local fools we got in power and in planning, make them tear it down, if they have no permission for it, how the heck do you slip on not one but two extra floors and not notice such a mistake, yeah right my backside, this was planned all along, I’d slam one massive impact fee on them they would be feeling until 20 years after.
Dart just likes a clear view of Mt. Trashmore from all his properties. Moving on…….
Bringing fill in around buildings to raise grades is nothing new. Just look at Caribbean Club and WaterColours.
And before them the Ritz. Caymanmath. 8 + 2 = 8
Dart rocks.
Dart sucks.
What does it say about the Planning Dept leadership that they are too busy to monitor the only hotel under construction in the territory? Like Homer Simpson at the Nuclear Plant.
Time for Ezzard to slither back under his bridge.
Apparently if Dart does it nobody in ppm government objects because they do not want to offend Daddy Dart.
It also helps that several former ministry and planning department staff including CO’s and deputies are now officially on dart payroll. Different strokes for different folks as usual. Can you imagine what would happen if the average Caymanian breached planning laws; BCU would shut down the site.
So the next one built at 14 stories will be ok?
I feel that the law should be changed as the minister mentioned so that the height is from original grade not finished grade. The law as it is not allows for to much ” interpretation” and should be firmed up. It is obviously too late on the Dart hotel to change it but we can make sure it does not happen in the future. It should be done now, right away, prior to Darts next project. I wonder if our politicians have the gumption to change it and displease Dart.
Anyone remember when the limit was three stories and we had a thing called ‘setback’ to stop development encroaching on the beach and iron shore?
Why not just admit that the island is now up for grabs to the highest bidder and stop pretending that there has ever been any intention of actually enforcing the planning law if the price is right?
Agreed but do you remember when no further building was allowed on ironshore in town. That was a wise government. Now permission is being granted opposite the old bakery on North Church Street which breach all the setbacks under the law. This follows others on South Church Street. It is only a matter of time when you will not be able to see the sea from the road in George Town. Greedy developers need think about the community rather than their own wellbeing. Please give something back before it is too late.
The next bad northwester or next hurricane would let them know why there was a law, to how close you could build to the shore.
If I remember right the three storey limit going out of the window was part of the Ritz-Carlton deal.
No it went to five then seven first. The Government in the early seventies said they did not want to see a Miami Beach skyline but then along came greed and kickbacks. The Mr Normans, Bensons and Trumans got it right. They were true leaders of our island.
Oh sure. Nothing underhand ever happened in those days. The dollar amounts were smaller but cronie deals have featured in all eras.
Strict development rules went out the window with Jim Bodden. Then we got development. Lots of it. And prosperity. But it all came with a cost that many Caymanians increasingly regret. Certainly the ones who sold out too soon. Some of the remaining holders of large and/or valuable properties are still keen to sell or develop with little or no thought about what their grandchildren will be left with.
So true, 7:27, and then we made James Bodden our National Hero and gave him a statue in town not far from Fort George, our primary real historical site, which he personally bulldozed down because he had a hissyfit with the Government of the day-something that is seldom reported in the pages of any magazines thanks to his supporters and it will be interesting to see if CNS censors my comment as it has done before despite a photograph existing of Mr Bodden on the bulldozer knocking it down.. And Ezzard says we are among the most intelligent people on earth?
Thank you 8:08 for speaking the truth. I hear Ezzard on the radio lamenting for the days when the GM at the Holiday Inn was threatened by Mr Jim with loss of work permit etc. because he was trying to do his job regarding staff discipline.
Ezzard thinks that was good for Caymanians. It was great for the individuals who deserved to be fired, but what about being fair to the hard-working majority? Look where that mentality has has got us!