LA unanimously supports appeal motion
Cayman Islands Legislative Assembly
(CNS): The private member’s motion calling for government to appeal the chief justice’s ruling legalising same-sex marriage and reassert what members believe was the usurping of its powers by the judgment was passed unanimously Thursday evening. All 18 members were present for the vote and backed the motion tabled by the member for East End, Arden McLean. Not all members spoke. Three Cabinet ministers chose not to take part, including Roy McTaggart, who has spoken before on the issue and had previously offered some support to the LGBT community and called for same-sex unions.
But this time McTaggart remained silent, as did ministers Tara Rivers and Joey Hew, who have never contributed to any debates regarding the issue of same-sex marriage. Without former MLA Wayne Panton in the House, who had previously been the only member of the LA willing to openly support the rights of the LGBT community, there was little comfort for them in this debate.
None of the members that spoke condemned the homophobic rhetoric by other members or the calls by the education minister for the public to directly disrupt the wedding of Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden next week.
Kenneth Bryan, the constituency MLA for Day, said he did not support gay marriage but the government must provide a solution to the problem of the rights of the LGBT community being violated. Bryan was the only MLA to point out that even if the government was successful in the appeal regarding what it believes is the over-reach of the chief justice for amending the law, the rights of his constituents were still being breached.
Bryan said the people of Cayman had to understand that while the Cayman Islands remains an overseas territory, or as he put it “a grown child living in its mother’s house”, it had to address the human rights issue impacting the LGBT community.
The rhetoric was ratcheted up over the issue as the debate drew to a close Thursday evening, after the member for East End closed the debate and altered the wording of the motion to press further disappointments about the chief justice’s decision.
The winding up of the debate came just after the chairman of the HRC, James Austin-Smith, issued a press release criticising the decision to appeal the ruling. McLean attacked Austin-Smith, calling for him to be arrested and deported.
See the debate below:
Category: Politics
I am embarrassed by our government officials. We are on an international stage and look like we are still in the dark ages.
What a disgrace, I hope the silent majority show up for their wedding with peace and love signs and drown out the ignorant minority.
Why is this argument being manipulated to being about expats and outside influences in Cayman?
The Court case was brought on behalf of two Caymanians who wanted to be treated equally to their fellow Caymanians.
The judgement was given by the Hon. Chief Justice Smellie, who has Caymanian status and who has been serving Cayman for the nearly 40 years.
This is a Caymanian matter that was brought up by Caymanians and decided by Caymanians, and in doing so bringing Cayman into the 21st century and in line with the rest of civilisation.
Wrong. This agenda from the start was pushed by expats, white expats in particular. From the former Governor’s daughter, to the former law school lecturer who openly pushed Caymanians to make this legal challenge, to the insulting statement from the white expat chairman of the HRC (without the support of his Caribbean Commission members) kman to the Colours Cayman March which was 90% white expats.
You literally have no idea what you’re talking about. But then racism and ignorance tend to go hand in hand.
Hey Alden, Eden Big Mac and the rest of the Members Lacking Acumen! Listen up. I’ve just got in touch with Tim Cook (Apple) and Chris Hughes (co-founder of Facebook) who are both gay. They’ve kindly agreed to release all the messages from your iphone to Cayman Marl Road. Can we get that trending???
UK needs to step in at this point and dismiss our current government. This appeal is making Cayman look like a 3rd world country.
They need to step in and dismiss you.
Uk needs to step in and get the forever honwobble a wig that fits, that is what makes us 3rd world.
Absolutely right These politicians who are there to represent ALL of us are being highly discriminatory and against the basic human rights of all. They totally need to be removed and let’s start again with some younger more forward thinking ones, for god’s sake .
Immigration needs to step in and ship your kind of people back to where you came from. Bless our Unity Government & the Cayman Islands
Can the braindead idiots who keep posting that ‘we should go back where we came from” on the assumption that those who DONT oppose same sex marriage are expats PLEASE get it through your thick skulls that we ARE Caymanian….born and raised!! YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL OF US WITH YOUR BIGOTRY AND HATE.
A Caymanian.
Sticks and stones…anyway at least go back to bed.
Yeah, right! Where were all the Caymanians at the Colours Cayman March then? Almost all expats. We know who is creating the unrest.
Where were all the Caymanians at the LA protest – just 6 people showed up.
check out the petition against same sex Marriage. Caymanians by the thousands. How many sign the one in favour of it?
CNS: Explain the point of the petition in favour of same-sex marriage. It is law and very unlikely to be overturned at any level,
Dismiss the government for exercising its constitutional right of appeal?? And this actually got 80 thumbs up. Wow.
That is how a good functioning democracy is supposed to work. You are advocating for fascism.
So right – new blood, thats what Cayman needs. This whole thing is self-centred and ridiculous. All the horrific happenings in the world and our headline news is this. Cayman is being shown in a very bad light. Out with the old and in with the new.
fellow caymanians…you keep voting in same people? why? they approved the constitution?
We didn’t vote them in. The Speaker lost all of his party but two and barely got his own seat back. Nobody voted for this.
These people are definitely what I’d call ‘master debaters’.
They’re jokes in their own lifetime, I can only imagine how history will judge them and their legacy of ignorance and intolerance.
To me whether a man or woman prefers sex/affection with another man or woman has nothing to do with me or my interaction with that person. All I care about is whether they are contributing positively to our community. We are all human. Our Sexual orientation should not define us.
What I have learnt from the LGBT community is that basic things such as being deemed “spouse” for medical reasons; rights to consent as spouse to emergency medical treatments for partners; medical aid plans; rights to pension benefits; mortgage applications, immigration etc etc are all negatively impacted if unmarried. Not being able to marry someone you want to commit yourself to has serious life implications. Who do we think we are stopping two consenting adults from committing to each other and functioning in same way as married heterosexual couples do.
These narrow minded bible punching hypocrites need to move into the modern world.
I support the judges decision.
Are you ok with adoption of Cayman babies too? Just asking.
Of course they are.
Lets see now. Our usual track record with babies unwanted by their biological parents is a train wreck of no support through school, failure to achieve the basic tools to join society, turning to gangs and the street, never learning what a committed relationship or a stable family home is like, and propagating more unwanted children. Or you can have a baby adopted by a gay couple, subject to an adoption committees review to make sure they have the means and ability to raise the child, and who clearly want the baby. Seems a no brainer to me – unless of course you subscribe to the “all gays are child abusers” theory ( passing lightly over the fact that we have no shortage of child abuse in this country perpetrated by heterosexuals).
I listened to the members of the LA on Radio Cayman and it sounded to me like shameless pandering to voters toward the next election.
Forget the out of control dump or the unnecessary dock lets pander to the religious and bash gays as that is always safe, forget they are our brothers, sisters, sons, daughters just forget all that.
The Christ in which I believe would show love and tolerance something lacking in Cayman churches and in the LA.
The fascists aren’t numerous, or even a majority necessarily, but they do cling to key positions of power…for this week anyway. They are scary for real because their legion occupy all the positions inside CIG which can mess with your life and peace. They have been conspiring to act against “outsiders” for years, destroying applications and fouling up processes as they see fit. This Judicial Review is finally exposing the heart of where this hateful conspiracy originates. That can only be a good thing, if we’re all paying attention.
You have no idea what a fascist is.
At this point, and given the bigoted clowns we have in the LA, I think i WOULD prefer the CJ to make rulings to enforce the Constitution and amend laws as necessary. Arresting JA-S or a member of HRC for doing their job….really? What are we? Some kind of po-dunk town with a bunch of corrupt, crazy mayors?
No, Anonymous 5:07. We are not some kind of po-dunk town with a bunch of corrupt, crazy mayors. We are a nice little Caribbean country with a bunch of corrupt, greedy politicians.
Lol. You elect them. On the other hand the pool is very small. You need to bring status holders in for your country to become civilized.
Yea so they can wreck our country just like what they did to their own shithole countries where they ran from to come here.
Ignorance defined
CNS, I would like to know if possible, what are the AG thoughts on this appeal and does he beleive we can win? (of course he probably won’t reply).
I can’t beleive these MLAs would want to waste time, effort and money on this, there are so many more important issues that need to be dealt with.. Wiat! What am I saying and election is around the corner, the so called Christians have a large number of votes.. Silly me.
I also can’t beleive that such comments have been made in our house of parliament. The bigotted, hatred towards the Gay community.
We know that certain MLAs have had shady pasts, if fact if you still go to certain bars, events and even trips you will see these certain individuals misbehaving.
The elections are just around the corner, and beleive me, there will be a change. I can see and predict at least 8/9 new MLS. The party system will be in a mess, which of course will be entertaining.
CNS: I very much doubt that the AG will give us his personal opinion, but the legal arguments for the appeal will be public.
Question, the members of the legislative assembly were put there to do as we the people want so where was this discussion in pre-election
Did anyone ask what the candidates thought of this during the debate?
Let’s strip this back to basics – this is about the right for an individual to be able to love who they want and in doing so be afforded the protection in law to have their lifelong partner protected and be considered a Spouse, next of kin and beneficiary. This has no impact whatsoever on anybody else outside the two people in the relationship.
This has no impact on Cayman other than promoting the island as an accepting, liberal forward thinking community.
It has no place in any argument by MLA’s who choose to use it as a proxy argument to push their isolationist racist agenda and scoring cheap shots for their electorate. It is about the right for two people (who in this case are Caymanian) to be recognised legally as spouses and have their rights recognised to love who they want.
Nobody wants some kind of Christian Sharia law in Cayman and the MLA’s should promote tolerance, acceptance and inclusion not inciting violence, division and homophobic bigotry.
This is an important point in our history. Which side are we to be on?
For 12k a month I would also say whatever you want to hear.
Plus benefits
Does that include the pension that they already draw despite not being retired?
Cayman it’s time to clean house the young generation of Caymanians are not haters and in my view more mature and emotionally stable than this lot of none achievers. Lets get our young voters registered and engaged and a new slate of candidates who can look at Cayman in the context of where we need to go not how it use to be. Only fools live in the past and fear the future. It’s easy to see where the hate is coming from that affects our community when your elected members behave in such an embarrassing fashion. Cayman has a ton of churches let them go sit in there and spread their hate not in our house of leadership ….
Sweep them out and sweep the LA clean.
I am not a young Caymanian (over 50) but this was my litmus test. There is no way I can back any of these clowns in the next elections.
They have finally found something they can all agree on and have unanimously chosen a side. This is a first. When the ship starts sinking I only see them back fighting each other to be the first ones off. Truly third world.
If the CJ can singlehandedly overrule the expressed will of the people then he is also a King or a God.
If Caymanian are really so proud of their fascist beliefs, then there will be a big adjustment coming their way.
Nonsense. You have framed the concept of “the will of the people” too narrowly as Caymanian voters. As British territory, the laws applied by the CJ were approved by the will of the voters of the UK through the actions of their elected MPs. The CJ has applied laws that have democratic foundation.
lol. No. The people here can only mean the voters in this territory who are affected by this. Did the UK voters vote on adopting our 2009 Constitution?
Or a servant of the law, which requires him to do what he did.
You mean applying the Constitution – which is meant to be the expressed will of the[people – although in hindsight not as well drafted as certain parts of the community thought it was!
I’d like to say the world is laughing at Cayman. But they don’t even know we’re here. We are but a dot on the map. And forever will it be thus.
Nothing wrong with being a dot on the map..People from all over the world now where to find us and are now fighting to be citizens of these small islands,,,I’m proud to be from these small Cayman Islands…
Unless your gay of course
I am a 7th generation Caymanian. Some of the rhetoric in the LA was truly a disgrace. To ask that we go to intervene in someone else’s private marriage ceremony is sinking to a new low. It shows a mean disrespect for others and is setting up possibly violent confrontations in the community. Shame on you who present religion in such a negative light to the watching world.
7th generation..really?? Stop the rubbish..
What 10:03? You don’t think the Boddens and Ebanks are 7th generation. You need to read some Caymanian history and learn about the people when live here.
Boddens have been here for at least 12 generations, but yeah, that guy is an idiot.
A generation for each finger.
Getting sick of you foreigners. These comments really show how you feel about us.
I think the OP was suggesting that the number of generations is irrelevant to the merit – or lack thereof – of the comment. The idea does raise interesting concepts in democracy – you get more votes the more prior generations have been on island! Alden and the PPM boys would love it – McKeeva not so much.
Buju for KAABOO 2020!
Boom bye bye!!
Is this Cayman in the 21st Century or have I woken up in the Twilight Zone?? We have MLA’s encouraging bigotry and homophobia, and what’s worse is a minister for the education of our people inciting violence in Cayman!! What is going on?
If we are going to bend the contents of the bible to justify our prejudices then perhaps someone can enlightenen me as to how it deals with the numerous transgressions we see day to day committed by the Caymanians and in particular some of the MLA’s!
We have been quiet for too long. That is what got us in the mess we are in today.
i am not against the gay community…but i am against the changing of laws from the bench…clearly if the constitution allow it…it is not right…seperation of powers… and yes i am a native. i agree with the motion to appeal….
you lie.
I do not support a gay life style, however I will not judge anyone. What some one does in the privacy of their home is their business but I will not support the meaning of the word marriage to mean anything other than what I grew up knowing it as. In addition I support the government’s decision to appeal the decision of the CJ as I believe that without a challenge, it could potentially set precedent for other rulings that falls outside the remit of the judiciary.
As a general rule, I do not place much weight on the views as to “separation of powers” from someone who cannot spell “separation”.
Welcome to the Banana Republic….
Well get out of my republic
Who’s republic, yours?
Ignorant and backward republic
unanimous in their ignorance and hypocrisy.
who do you think is right?
poorly educated, incompetent mla’s elected by a poorly educated backward electorate
or
internationaly recognized and highly qualified lawyers and judges???
Ya mama!
That attitude is why all your colonies left.
ok…this means war.
expats need to mobilize and get organised.
time to fight for basic human rights.
Convene at a beach near you..bring suncream and Margaritas!
will do…expats do not avoid demonstrations because it is ‘too hot’.
You can appeal all you want, you will lose.
You signed us up to this cesspool of leftist scum, the EU HRC, where “Human Rights” are really meant to empower radical anti-Christianity (Islam is OK for them) liberal scum and their agenda.
The only option now is to go independent if you want to have any chance at reversing this filth (and worse much much to come)
Yes woe to the christians who are somehow really the victims here
Hilarious
Does the tinfoil hat you wear on your head get hot in the sun?
And end up like crime infested jamaica ?
Cayman lacks competent and mature political leaders. Corrupt as hell.
You writing from a troll warehouse in Russia?
The EU accepts civil unions that have the same legal standing as marriage. EU member states are not forced to legalise same sex marriage if they provide for same sex civil unions.
What they did to the Governor Choudhury spoke volumes about xenophobia and racism in the Cayman Islands.
Such things shouldn’t happen in a civilized and democratic society.
What who did to Gov Choudhary? He was well-liked here, and Caymanians had very little to do with his fate. I believe the UK thought he was too pro-Cayman.
I am Caymanian and watched the debate in the LA and to be truthful I have seen less clowns at a Barnum and Bailey circus. I cringed!!!
Shame on you members of the Assembly for voting for this bigotry. You are going to lose this appeal — McLaughlin and Miller even suggested so — and every one of you knows it. When same-sex marriage wins at the appeal level, the sky will NOT fall in as you claim. Instead, the people will discover that they were lied to by you. As leaders of the nation, you should be fostering equality, acceptance and mutual support. Instead you foster division and hatred between groups. And yet you think it’s gays who are going to hell??? Talk about being in denial…
” McLean attacked Austin-Smith, calling for him to be arrested and deported.” Proper banana republic style justice!
I see that quite a few people don’t agree with the above post is that because the phrase “banana republic style justice was used”.
Can someone please provide a rationale justification for why what Arden said was justifiable. You are literally supporting people being removed from the island for at worse expressing an opinion…. while you might not like that opinion is deportation really justifiable.
And for all those who think it is acceptable to deport someone for an opinion think about this – who decides which opinions are acceptable, and which not? Is Arden McLean the arbiter? Ezzard Miller? Alden? What about Ken Dart? See where it ends?
What does the bible say about indecently assaulting waitresses in Casinos?
There’s also passages about:
Thou shall not pave thy neighbour’s driveway for free
Thou shall not hit women, unless a conviction shall not be recorded
Thou shall not travel first class to far flung destinations for important meetings about postal services
Thou shall not smuggle in non-native species of animals that threaten an already fragile eco system, unless, you know, you’ve got connections.
I’m sure I could list at least another fifty such commandments.
What does the Bible say about adultery and men who father many children yet take no responsibility for them? Cayman is rampant with adultery and bad father’s. Yet these Caymanian people call themselves Christians. The hypocrisy of Caymanians knows no bounds.
Who has more spine and cares more for the people of Cayman: HRC or the LA?
Hint* not the latter.
I think it’s time for us to hit up the international press, effect the CI pocket.
Look what is going on in Brunei and the boycotts going on.
2:39, It’s coming.
No it isn’t. Nobody cares about a 2×4 island. We went through a cat 5 hurricane with hardly any news coverage.
Oh yeh 7:27. Nobody cared about dinky Brunei until they started stoning to death gays. A statement from Richard Branson on the gay situation here, would get the Cayman international boycott rolling.
Cayman politicians are a disgrace, just like many of their Bermudian counterparts. Have faith in the courts. The Privy Council will be ruling on the Bermuda appeal sometime this year. An appeal, I would suggest, that will be lost by the Bermuda Government.
When we win the Privy Council case against the #Bermuda government it will benefit many other countries who are seeking marriage equality.
Thank You, for listening to the people
We as voters are proud of our representatives.
but what a waste of time, money and resources…..what a mess.
That is right. The key words are ‘listening to the people.’
No box of crayons will help us.
What a horrible bunch of human beings. These are the types that would cast out their own children if they were gay.
**** you
Hardly surprising, everyone jumping on the bandwagon to secure votes.
Too funny.
“We are outraged by the Judiciary usurping the function of the Legislature, so we are going to pursue more Judicial proceedings!”
Transparent as all get out that they have to put on this show for the voters when they all know exactly what the result is going to be.
Yes, go to court in order to argue that you don’t have to listen to a court and see wha unna get.
” McLean attacked Austin-Smith, calling for him to be arrested and deported.” McLean is even crazier than I thought.
And where are the professional associations? Anyone speaking up for the assault on the rule of law and attack on a member of the bar correctly filling their role?
He was not properly fulfilling his role. He was totally out of order, and he did not have even have the approval of other commission members for his so-called statement. I will bet CNS won’t investigate that one. They will sweep it under the rug.
CNS: If the other HRC members disagree with the chairman, they should come forward. They are very welcome to contact us at info@caymannewsservice.com. Otherwise all we have is your word for it.
Wow, a complete disgrace – including those cowardly MLAs who knew better and chose to sit complicit over several hours of hate. Where the hell was our so-called Governor? Isn’t he supposed to attend when the LA is in session? What duty was more pressing for the FCO this week than explaining how Constitutional Judicial Review works in the UK, and why the LA must now take steps to change the Marriage Law so that it complies with the Constitution?
Lol. You are so confused. 1. The Governor is not a part of the Legislative Assembly. 2. The Chief Justice claims he has amended the Marriage Law so it does not fall to the L.A. to change it so that it complies with the Constitution. 3. The MLAs were doing their jobs. That’s how democracy works. You obviously favour some sort of colonial autocracy.
Would have expected better from a handful but not a big surprise really. What a man like a vote.