MLAs press for gay rights fight
North Side MLA Ezzard Miller
(CNS): Members of the opposition benches pressed government to budget for a legal fight over gay rights during Finance Committee Wednesday, when they asked for updates on the case of Dr Leo Raznovich, who is seeking to become his husband’s legal dependent. Questioning the attorney general about the 2016/17 budget appropriations for his chambers, Ezzard Miller (North Side), among other MLAs, pressed the government lawyer to fight the Immigration Appeals Tribunal if it found that Raznovich, who is legally married to his partner, a lawyer at Maples, could be a dependent on his spouse’s work-permit.
Anthony Eden, who has been vociferous in his condemnation of gay relationships and extending rights to members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community, also pressed the attorney general to fight the legally married couple’s application. He pointed to the recent findings of the Chapin case in the European Court of Human Rights to justify a legal battle.
While that case has reaffirmed that jurisdictions are not required in law to introduce same-sex marriage, it does not alter the legal position on discrimination. Local legislation still requires that foreign marriages be recognized and that includes lawful same-sex marriages.
Earlier in the day Premier Alden McLaughlin had told legislators that no decisions had been made about changes to the immigration rules to recognise same-sex unions. He said this case had now been heard by the IAT and a decision was expected shortly.
But when MLAs questioned Attorney General Samuel Bulgin, they urged the government lawyer to fight any move by the IAT to direct immigration boards to recognise any same-sex marriages, including the current case.
The AG told MLAs that the Chapin case re-opened dialogue about the countries that don’t have a framework for same-sex unions but he said the case was still before the tribunal and no decisions had been made about how the Cayman Islands government might accommodate the issue of dependents without introducing gay marriage. He said his chambers would wait to see if it received any instructions to act following the outcome of the tribunal.
Miller pressed Bulgin to make a commitment that government would fight the case in courts and “do what is necessary” if the tribunal ruled against the Business Staffing Plan Board’s decision to refuse the dependent application.
While the majority of MLAs still appear to oppose any move to end the discrimination against people from the LGBT community, and Eden among others was buoyed in their position by the Chaplin case, Dr Raznovich told CNS this week that the case does not mean that a legal marriage between same-sex partners does not have to be recognized.
“It must be understood … the Cayman Islands is required as a matter of law to provide its citizens with a legal framework for the protection of rights of LGBT persons and for the registration of same-sex relationships,” he said. “To the extent the Cayman Islands feels that same-sex marriage is contrary to its Constitution and fundamental Christian values, civil unions/partnerships would be one alternative option to achieve compliance with those existing international legal obligations.”
However, the MLAs appear to oppose any lawful recognition of the rights of LGBT people, not just any form of civil unions. But it is in the lack of a legal framework and the issue of discrimination that will cause Cayman legal difficulties, not its refusal to introduce gay marriage.
Category: Government Finance, Politics
waste of tax payers money over senseless ignorant agendas created by fools.
2009 Cayman Islands Constitution;
Non-discrimination
16.—(1) Subject to subsections (3), (4), (5) and (6), government shall not treat any person in a
discriminatory manner in respect of the rights under this Part of the Constitution.
(2) In this section, “discriminatory” means affording different and unjustifiable treatment to
different persons on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, age, mental or physical disability, property, birth or other status.
Please note the government may not discriminate persons based on any of these reasons, including the section “other status” This term is where many groups will be protected by this constitution including The LGBT community, once taken to the courts. All one must do is show they fall under a generally recognized group of persons that are “other status” I would put money on the fact this was done to cover sexual orientation and any other future groups that may be discriminated against. So Cayman I believe when this goes to court they will win as they are already protected by The Constitution even though it is not clearly stated. Basically any challenge will be a waste of government monies as the Constitution voters approved already protects them from what I can see.
Religious delusion.
MLAs: We have a more serious fight coming up! Mother has divorced the EU, which will more than likely lead us into a recession if we don’t start capping expenses and generating revenue!
:/
The public ignorance and prejudice of these MLAs occurs because of the popularity of a particular version of a certain religion. Christian fundamentalism, with all its absurdities and destructive ideas, sets the stage for this kind of negative nonsense. It allows mean people to act out on their fears. It fuels bullies and blowhards. It sanctions stupidity and discrimination. If we want all people to be respected and treated fairly we must first convince a majority of Caymanians to stop believing in a talking snake, invisible demons, and all the other ridiculous things fundies have fallen for. How can they ever accept gay people when they sincerely think their magical imaginary friend forbids it? Not easy, but that’s the way forward as we have seen in other societies. As religious intensity declines, tolerance and fairness rise.
More accurately, the zealots rely heavily on this guy, “Saul of Tarsus” who wrote ancient critical letters to the Corinthians, and also to his former employers, the rulers of the Roman Empire, lambasting the false idolatry and so-called vices (including those he once enjoyed). As author, he took liberty to insert his own personal comments in these letters about what he felt the imaginary friend’ might be displeased about. His qualification for authoring these opinions was, that he had had a surprising recovery from a temporarily 3 day vision loss (as a consequence of what could have been dozens of potential common ailments). This was circa 50 AD (and prior to the modern diagnostics of ophthalmology). The Romans, unmoved by his letters, cut off his head in 63 AD, whereupon it bounced three times, creating a magical drinking fountain each time it bounced (the Tre Fontane “Aquas Salvias”). Or, so this parable goes when it was first transcribed impartially onto Papyrus in Greek circa 180-220AD and then again by drunk monks into Ye Olde English for the Great Bible of King Henry VIII in 1535, transcribed into a different version for the Bishop’s Bible of 1568, and once again from 1604-1611 for the King James “Version”. These drunk monks assure us that no exaggerations, transcription errors, or artistic license were taken at any time in the making of these fanciful “versions” of the facts that people are expected to stake their earthly lives on.
Please read Romans 1 especially verses 21 – 32. Please tell me why one stand up for the Principles of the Bible and their belief that what the Bible says is Truth then they are promoting hate. I have not heard any of the MLAs promating hate or hate crimes against the LGBT nor did they discrimnate against them living and being amongst us here. Why should the LGBT have a different ‘HUMAN RIGHTS’ than everyone else or have 2 ‘HUMAN RIGHTS’ so if they (LGBT) are allowed to have their own rights then why not the people who believe inhaving more than one wife. Nooooo, that would be wrong because the Bible say that we should only have one wife and that is the law. I do believe that Bible is true and what God says He means and what He means He says, from Genesis to Revelation. I stand with Mr. Eden and all who say no to changing or book to please people who are not Caymanians and will probably never become Caymanians. Like the words of Andy Martin in his song ‘if you don’t like the way we live go back where you came from’.
Mr. Eden and Mr. Miller and Mr. Alva comtinue to stand for something because if you don’t you will fall for anything. May God continue to bless His people.
If you have not yet worked out that the Bible was written by MEN and not the good Lord then you will never understand anything.
the bible also says most of the seafood caymanians consume is sinful. do you still agree with the Bible, or do you just cherry pick what verses apply to you?
One word – hypocrit.
If ur gna end ur coment like dat at leest spel it write: Hypocrite.
8:27, your post and thinking proves how deluded you and many others really are in this day and age. The fact you believe in some fairy and guy with horns on his head but wont recognize equal rights makes no sense to a normal rational human being.
I’m sorry. I didn’t see that LGBT were asking for their “own rights” or “special rights”. I was under the impression that they were interested in equal rights under the law. Since when is that special?
-Isme
The LGBT community are not asking for DIFFERENT human rights. They are not asking for MORE human rights than anyone else. They are simply asking to be treated EQUALLY, and not to be discriminated against due to their sexual orientation, which affects no one’s life but their own.
Mr Raznovich’s case has just gone out the window as soon no more european human rights.
Not that it matters, expect a lot of redundancies and companies pulling out of Cayman, especially with the EU blacklist coming out in a couple of weeks and Cayman almost guaranteed a place on it now.
Dublin should do well
Ignorant nonsense. The UKs ECHR rights have nothing to do with the EU membership, the rights convention is not an EU matter. And ECHR compliance will be a pre-requisite of any trade deal the UK enters into with the EU going forward.
The EU vote is basically a fast track to permanent blacklisting for Cayman, BVI and Bermuda.
The Caymanian LGBT community appear to be very committed to their cause, in support of this particular case, if the posts on CNS are any indication.
Does the CAYMANIAN LGBT community realize that if this particular case is successfully argues in court and upheld by the world human rights courts, that their situation will not change one iota?
The only people who will benefit from the success of this case are those expat LGBT people on work permits who reside on Island, not Caymanian citizens.
These non Caymanians fighting immigration on this issue and their supporters, are quite willing to fight to enshrine rights that they do not have now under the Cayman constitution and immigration laws ……………however, the Caymanian LGBT community can go F**K themselves (pun intended)
The UK has just voted to leave the EU. We won’t be bound to the EU…just throwing that out there
What the???? Hey, thanks for the update, mate.
Dear Mr. Miller and Mr. Eden,
Can you kindly explain why two men (you) in their 70’s are obsessed with the sexual activities of two (or more) consenting adult men. Quite frankly….it’s disturbing and creepy.
Aren’t both of you married men? Here’s a thought……how about you ‘Marvin Gaye and Get It On’ with your respective partners and stay out of other people’s bedrooms?
Just sayin’
I don’t know your age however, you appear from your multiple postings, to be even more obsessed with the sexual activity of two (or more) men and your obsession with two (or more) men appear to forget about the lesbian community.
You quite readily assume to dictate to Mr. Miller and Mr. Eden how they should pursue their sexual preference while admonishing them for doing the same to you and your sexual preferences.
How about everybody keep their noses out of how two legally married adults “Marvin Gaye and Get It On” within the confines of their own bedrooms?
Just saying!
“why two men in their 70s” – man, can you even point to Cayman on a map? Anthony, yes, but Ezzard? Are you nuts? Look, sportsfan, you don’t know what the heck you are talking about. Do your research. (And by the way, we all know what happened to poor Marvin – he got his head blown off by his old man!)
Because we have nothing better to do with our money, right?! Seriously! Our Govt run education system is a complete failure, our health system is a joke, our crime is skyrocketing, mental health facilities are almost non-existent and we have rampant alcoholism and drug abuse, we just paid CUC hundreds of thousands of dollars for an empty building because they can’t separate the meter/the buildings/whatever the excuse is, road deaths have risen shockingly, a dump that is a health hazard, people who can’t feed their children, rampant incest, sexual and physical abuse, and instead of dealing with those issues we instead want to stockpile money in case we get taken to court because we won’t recognise same sex unions between two adults!?
my only issue with the whole debacle is, if you are gay, lesbian or transgendered and you are moving to a differnt country. Do your research and find out about the laws governing that country as it relates to you. But don’t go to another country and force them to change the laws for you and talk about humans rights. There are bigger fish to fry. Than the world not accepting who you choose to marry. The government needs to spend time dealing with the issues of the country, like unemployment etc..
Do you not realise that there are plenty of Caymanians who are gay? The rights which are being debated here are not restricted to expats. Imagine being in the shoes of a gay Caymanian reading all this hate coming from their own people. Would you have the guts to “come out”? I assure you that, very sadly, many gay Caymanians (who would never, ever CHOOSE to be gay), must suffer in silence.
Enough of this bull from these morons. Order in Council, Immigration Department placed under direct control of FCO staffed 100% by non-Caymanians, abolition of boards, criminalisation of hate speech/acts including by MLAs, problem solved.
Just an Order In Council is enough and apply it across all BOTs.
Just send through the “Order in Council” like Brussels are doing to Great Britain through the EU right?
Ops…. just saw the latest news feed, they, the voting population of GB got enough of that bullshit and told the EU, and the elitist politicians running their country, to kiss off……….well so much for that argument.
What is it about homosexuality that freaks men out? Specifically, male homosexuality.
I understand that many take the stance that it goes against their religion or is morally wrong.
However, I can just about guarantee…that many of these same men who scream bloody murder about gays, when faced with two women making out….would have no problem with that at all. In fact, two women together is the most popular male fantasy. So the moral/religious argument goes out the window at that point.
So…..maybe one of you straight men who are so opposed to equal rights for gays, can tell me….what is it about gay men that you just can’t handle?
As to the church community and MLA’s….you should be ashamed of yourselves. Each and every one of you. There is incest, rape, child abuse, domestic violence perpetrated in these islands each and every day against women and children the vulnerable members of our society.
I have yet to read an article of hear of where the churches and or MLA’s have stood up and protested and said the incest, rape, child abuse and domestic violence must stop, we need stricter laws. NOT ONE.
You are all poor examples of Christians. Doesn’t the Bible teach tolerance and compassion? Whether you agree with someone’s lifestyle is 100% irrelevant. It is not your business to judge another person. Isn’t that what the Bible says?
I understand that last nights high school graduation class was around 300+ students, yet only half of those actually graduated with a degree, the other half were simply ‘school leavers’. You have students that have zero respect for authority, that leave school and can hardly read or write, or are spitting out babies left right and center for different fathers….but none of that bothers you?
But two men in a relationship brings you out in droves?
Your heads are so far up your assess it is unbelievable. Not one of you is fit to be in the LA.
Straight Caymanian.
Well if they’re like me, each of these fellows probably spent years telling his wife that he wanted a threesome. But then she brought home a guy……
That is enough to make any man mad!
Very well said.
Their obsession is borderline creepy.
I suspect at least two of these MLAs are closet cases…
Which ones? I need a sugar Daddy.
Cayman Man.
Be grateful that I accept 50 % of gays.
Well said. They should hang their heads in shame.
Wow, let’s waste some money and time on issues that most of the rest of the developed world has come to terms with and accepts!! Deal with crime, unemployment, the dump, our environment and most important education…..education is the MLA’s worst enemy as a smarter population would instantly vote those dinosaurs out of office!! One love!!
One day agendas will all cease and Truth will stand unbroken in spite of all the attempts to undermine it. Those who speak and report the truth deserve credit.
What does that even mean?
Now’t so blind as those who won’t see.
Jeez, could the LA actually do something about things that matter rather than this which affects no one directly? Making the legislation so that people have legal protection does not affect voters one bit, except those who are LBGT and might actually get them some extra votes…it does not force the LA or so called Christians here who hate the idea to do anything, just accept that people are free to choose how they live…
So I go to the post office today and have registered mail for myself and my partner (legal in other countries) on a property that we jointly own. I am able to collect mine but not my wife’s. What the community needs to understand is that recognizing rights does not change the number of gay people who live among us, Caymanian and ex-pats. In case you are wondering, we are Caymanian.
But it is their little way of telling you that the people of Cayman really think you are destined to burn in hell.
I think some of our MLAs are becoming completely obsessed with homosexuality.
Ezzard Miller do you not have other more pressing issues to worry about? Like the plights of unemployed Caymanians who are struggling day by day just to keep a roof over their head and food on their plate. Isn’t your PA “GAY”? And do you not have members of your own family that are GAY? YOU, EDEN and the other hypocritical MLAs STOP!!!!! YOUR!!!!! BIGOTRY!!!!!! The country has most certainly more pressing issues to spend the PEOPLES’ money on. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your INTOERANCE, STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your IGNORANCE, STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! spreading HATRED, STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thinking that your S**** does not stink too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU and the others alike need to ask the same GOD that you so wrongly think is condemning GAY People to forgive you all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Remember ‘Judge NOT that you may NOT be judged’.
If you truly want the government to spend money on the GAY ISSUE then press on for the government to carryout its threat of a ‘Gay Rights Referendum’. THEN and only THEN will the government have empirical data to use to press on with this issue. And until then, STOP!!!!!! this NONSENSE and get on with dealing with the more pressing issues that truly impact the lives of ALL CAYMANIANS and residents living in the Cayman Islands.
But this issue is so hot right now – it will garner him the most bang for his buck in regards to voters.
Ask Ezzard why his son lives in the UK and not in Cayman.
Nice and loud, but is it the truth?
Yes and no discredit to the guy but massive discredit to those MLAs who refuse to recognise that their own families need to be accepted and loved. They should check Dick Cheney, a VERY conservative Republican in the US, whose attitude to gay issues was changed when his daughter came out as lesbian.
Annonomous10:21you are quick to condemn me but your argument proves that I have no ate or issues with Gay people I respect them an honour their choice and preferences, but as a representative I have a duty to represent the views of the people I represent. If the people I represent tell me they do not want the laws of the land changed to accommodate foreign nationals on their permits I also have to respect their views. The change proposed by the Government to allow the Immigration department to approve request form persons on work permits to be added as dependents because they were married in some other country does not in any way help Caymanians in the LGBTQ community.
If persons on work permits do not like our laws then leave.
If and when I get representations from the Caymanian LGBTQ community to change oru constitution and laws I will have that discussion openly with them and the community at large which I represent.
@6:53 pm – Mr. Miller? I see the standard of education was just as dismal when you were in school as it is today.
You are the poster boy for education reform.
I have never been able to reconcile the claim that he is a Pharmacist, a profession requiring an undergraduate degree and another specialist degree, requiring superior academic and scientific knowledge, with his demonstrated scientific and intellectual illiteracy.
It looks like some people in the Bahamas have issues with equal rights as well.
Minister accuses Bahamas pastors of demonizing LGBT community
http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/headline-Minister-accuses-Bahamas-pastors-of-demonizing-LGBT-community-30843.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CaribbeanNewsNowDailyHeadlines+%28Caribbean+News+Now%21+Daily+Headlines%29
yawn….more hypocrisy and ignorance from our great ‘christain’ mla’s……zzzzzzzzzzz
Stirring the gay pot! The politician’s idea of the best day ever.
I had my gay pot stirred. One of the best nights of my life.
@John Inman – Is that you Mr. Humphries?
Priorities are really FCUKed up if this is why we are paying them. Why are mla’s pretending that they do not have gay Caymanians in their own families or do the just hate expats? #SAMELOVE
I think what they are saying is that it doesn’t matter that they might have them in their own famlies. Right is right and wrong is wrong regardless.
Seriously!? That is so dumb!
Who gave you the right to decide who consenting adults have sex with? There is a law that says consenting adults of the same sex can be with each other.
We all have the right to our opinion, but it shouldn’t be at the cost of someone else.
We also all have the right to our own beliefs, but what we DO NOT HAVE is the right to DENY OTHERS THEIR RIGHTS because of our beliefs.
Stop the hating…life is short live and let live.
Straight Caymanian
Aaaaaaaand here we go again.
On behalf of the CNS community, thank you for this gift!
Yes thank you CNS for bringing these oxygen thieves out of their caves for our amusement! It’s the gift that keeps giving. While they harp on about gay people they can take a break from beating their wife, abusing their underpaid helper or sleeping with their cousins. #goodchristians