MLAs call for gay rights referendum
MLA Anthony Eden
(CNS): Once again, some of Cayman’s longest serving politicians have attacked the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. During the budget debate in the Legislative Assembly last week, both Anthony Eden and Opposition Leader McKeeva Bush took aim at plans for a conference on issues impacting the group and criticised Cayman Islands Governor Helen Kilpatrick for offering her support for the cause. They also called for a referendum on the issue of same-sex unions.
Kilpatrick’s daughter, a student at the Truman Bodden Law School, and Leonardo Raznovich, a former professor at the school, are the lead organisers of the seventh Queering Paradigms conference, which is taking place this year here in Cayman (see Local and regional LGBT prejudices top bill at conference)
During Anthony Eden’s comparatively short contribution to the debate, which he noted could be his last, he drew attention to the conference, scheduled for this weekend, and, as he has done previously in the Legislative Assembly, exposed his disturbing antipathy towards members of the LGBT community. He spoke about a “moral compass” that was disappearing in the US and Europe and said that “they want to bring it here”.
Eden defended the discriminatory position he took against the LGBT community last year before he resigned from the PPM because of the premier’s announcement that he would be amending immigration regulations to accommodate same-sex dependents in legal unions. He claimed he had never received so much support for an issue before.
Eden said he had “taken licks” about the issue and it was time to have a referendum to decide the matter. However, describing it as his ‘favourite subject”, he derided the conference and comments made by the governor’s daughter, saying he was stunned to learn that “now, flying in the face of the debate that went on and I was chastised by some of these foreigners … they are bringing this conference here”.
The political veteran said all of the members on the opposition benches had met with the Cayman Ministers Association because of their concerns about the idea that gay people should have rights. He continued to blame “foreign elements” who wanted Cayman to change the marriage law, but he said the religious groups, who have between six and seven thousand parishioners, had given their commitment to fight against rights for the LGBT community. He said he believed the vast majority of Caymanians were behind him.
During his contribution Eden also called for the return of corporal punishment for sex offenders, as he appeared to reminisce fondly over public whippings, as he again blamed foreigners for attempting to change Cayman’s traditional ways.
Opposition Leader McKeeva Bush also spoke about rights for members of the LGBT community and the question of same-sex unions. He said that his party supported human rights but he was not willing to change the local culture and fly in the face of existing laws, as he too questioned why the governor was giving credence to the issues and the upcoming conference. He said she was “stirring up controversy” with her support.
Bush said that, as with many other issues, the concept of same-sex unions was being pushed by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and the “Queen’s representative here” should consider the views of people before she got involved in the conference. He said he did not care what people did in their private lives but the government should not change the law.
Bush noted that Bermuda had decided to have a referendum on the question of legal same-sex unions and perhaps Cayman should also do that, if the country was “being pushed” to accept them.
“We have our human rights too, which should be respected,” he said but did not make it clear how the rights of heterosexual Caymanians would be diminished in any way by offering rights to LGBT people to formalise their relationships and achieve equal pension and property rights.
Since the premier revealed plans to amend immigration legislation to accommodate same-sex spouses as dependents, thereby avoiding potential lawsuits, there have been no further announcements from government about when the changes will be made.
Dr Raznovich and his husband have taken legal action against the Cayman government after immigration turned down his dependency request. He said this week that their battle was ongoing.
See CIGTV coverage of debates below. Eden starts in video 1 at 36:30 mins in video 2 Bush starts at 23 mins.
Category: Politics
A man who makes enemy’s of the very people he represents is the bigger fool.
Pardon my interjection, but should that have been prefaced by “Confucius say ..”?
Interjection, sounds so delightfully dirty.
Does the wife know what you’re watching in the wee hours, mate?!
“Civil Partnerships: The Answer?”
The reason why gay marriage and connecting issues face such an uphill battle the world over is because it is attempting to penetrate the religion and or faith systems of people.
Many of those opposed to the concept are not necessarily opposed to gay marriage but instead take great offence to what they perceive to be the greatest of assaults against their faith.
(Hence the typical loggerhead stalemate when one attempts to counter this objection with a legal / human rights argument. We cannot debate faith with man-made jurisprudence.)
Whether one believes in a God is neither here or there, however it is a fact that most people in the world do – especially beyond the western world – which is interesting as the West has spent the most money, time, human blood and energy trying to convert everyone else to their chosen religion, but I digress.
Hence my steadfast assertion that civil partnerships may be the most useful avenue to secure the legal rights currently unavailable for homosexual and LGBT persons. In fact, I would encourage accompanying civil partnership agreements to straight couples or any other category the infinite possibilities of human relationships – primarily because they can manoeuvre around the infinite number of complications that have developed along with hundreds of years of faith-based legal systems.
It is undeniable that faith is paramount for many cultures and people therefore to constantly chip away at the pinnacle of any given society on the behalf of what is apparently a minority of the population is a recipe for disaster. We even see denominations on the brink of global fracture on the issue of gay marriage – as if we need yet another turning point in religious dogma.
Personally, I see the issue being resolved in a relatively simple way which is the implementation of legally backed civil partnerships.
*Sidenote: CP’s carry a great risk of legal discrimination against those that opt for the traditional (religiously influenced) customs of marriage, inheritance, estate, executor or rights etc. Hence the suggestion for all persons to examine the prospect of civil partnerships regardless of sexual orientation or gender identification.
Lastly, many of us are quick to ridicule the faith and convictions upon which those that oppose gay marriage base their perspective. Frankly you are as much an ignorant bigot as the one you accuse of the same. Let us strive to find a healthy and harmonious solution to this local issue in a manner that respects the local sensitivities. Anything other than will result in guaranteed friction in the future – and who wants that?
– Whodatis
I like the idea of guaranteed friction.. . .
I didn’t make it past “penetrate”
You read it – that’s all that matters.
You’re welcome.
– Who
Your moot suggests that we maintain the continued marginalisation of gay relationships by conceding to them a joining of lesser perceived status. Moreover, your suggestion falls short of allowing “equal” rights.
Where your argument fails is in giving deference to the notion that marriage is inexorably and forever linked with mainstream monotheistic religions and that breaking that link is the last taboo. Marriage is most certainly not so linked. Moreover, and most importantly, marriage long predates Christianity, yea, the practice of marriage existed well before recorded history. History paints a picture of the concept of marriage evolving and morphing depending on the culture and time in history. Forward to the 21st century and the concept of marriage appears to be set for a major change. What is arrogant is that religious moralists often speak as if they alone hold the patent on marriage, notwithstanding that their religion rose finding marriage already there.
History points out that the predominant religions did eventually usurp almost exclusive power over marriage at some points in history; however, the religious bigots must be reminded that marriage in the sphere of Western civilisations is usually primarily a legal institution and not a religious one. One can attach the trappings of religion to marriage and get married “before God” by a preacher in a church, however, one can also don dive gear and have a secular marriage performed by a marriage officer and recite your vows among the fishes. I was once part of a wedding party of a couple who got married au naturale at a clothing-optional resort. Well, actually the bride wore only a veil and garter (along with cologne and a smile). Yeah…I know what all you religious zealots are thinking right now: “That was sooo wrong! That bride needs to repent! Eve didn’t wear a veil or a garter or cologne! For shame!” Anywayyy…
I disagree with you: we do need yet another turning point in religious dogma. It is most arrogant for the myth-book thumpers to act as if marriage for everyone must come under the umbrella of their religious dogma and it is beyond arrogant to get “offended” when faced with the establishment of marriages that fall outside of what their religious dogma allows. The major religions usurped authority over the basic concepts of marriage and now the Fundie Faction are irate because they are being politely asked to back off and just live and let live. They should just get over it and be welcomed to the 21st century. And, yes, they need to prepare for the day when two people of the same sex walk through the doors of their church holding hands. WWJD, indeed.
1.) A legally backed civil partnership is by no means “lesser status”. As for being perceived as such, that would be a perspective limited to the uneducated so would bear no meaning in the real world. In fact, having one may help many of us beyond the parameters of marriage rights.
2.) Unfortunately, your comprehensive breakdown of the historical concept of marriage included no examples or evidence of homosexual unions. In fact, even adult + child marriages have a far greater timestamp of a cultural norm the world over. Therefore, to attempt to support your argument in this way is a failure.
In the end, it appears as if many in the LGBT community are the ones with a chip on their shoulder. Maybe it is due to what they feel they have had to endure, or maybe it is simply due to some deep-seeded guilt of faith which leads them to relentlessly hammer away at the issue of gay marriage.
Anyway, this issue has taken up far too much of my valuable time over the past couple of days. I have forwarded feasible solutions therefore have done my part.
If others choose to continue with their campaign to complicate their lives then so be it.
Life is too short.
– Who
Ok! Game on! If the legally backed civil partnership concept that you hypothesise is of equal status to marriage, then, why not simply allow same-sex couples to marry and save the smoke and mirrors?
You infer that I was trying to construct a historical context to *gay* marriage”. That is quite false. Read again. Had I wanted to make that point, I would have been compelled to provide some references because far too many people opposing seme-sex marriage seem to be clueless relative to the historical frame of *gay* unions. Read it again: Clearly, my point was: the institution of marriage long predates the coming into existence of global organised religions. I trust that you are lucid enough to agree that this is true. What I fail to understand is why you reason that inclusion of “examples or evidence of homosexual unions” is necessary to support my moot that the concept of “marriage” predated major global organised religion. Makes no sense. Why come back with such an unsubstantial and blatantly fallacious rebuttal? Intellectual suicide.
OK, now that you brought up the issue: In regard to “gay” marriage and unions in history: you seem to be somewhat benighted on the subject, but, I can make doing your homework easier and recommend some material written from the standpoint of anthropology, law, and history. Here is a simple but good start: “Eskridge, William N. Jr., (1993) “A History of Same Sex Marriage”. At the time he wrote the paper Eskridge was a respected scholar and professor. No, I did not include a URL to a website. I am here to foster intellectual exercise, no spoon-feed the lazy. If you find it and read it and the cited works, you may discover that: Shazzam! Same sex marriages and unions do exist in the historical record! Eskridge’s work also provides numerous citations and references. Spend time reading those; also do some scholarly research and you will discover that same sex and unions do predate the major global organised religions. Here is another work: Neill, James,(2009) “The Origins and Role of Same-sex Relations in Human Societies”. Once you confirm reading the two works and their cited materials, I shall be quite glad to provide you with additional reading if you require or desire further correction. (Get back with me on that ok?)
Quite telling are records relating to laws prohibiting and even voiding same sex marriages and unions. If you study the context and history of various laws regarding same sex unions and marriages, you will find that they are not always pre-emptive laws focusing solely on the anticipation of same sex unions, but are written to curtail or negate an established custom. Some of the prohibitions appear to be ex post facto laws. Many if not most of the laws have a religious context. Those laws would not be there if the practice did not exist. Do you not agree? Good, we are getting closer and you have learned something!
I shall close with some guidance on bolstering your side of the debate: You shall do well to carefully study the very concept and framework of “marriage” over history. Become familiar with what has defined “marriage” — from ancient cultures all the way to our culture. If adroitly crafted and argued, you could make a quite strong and very compelling case against gay marriage. It would still fail. (But at least it would be a challenge to refute, because, Duuuude…you are really struggling now!)
Wot?
Anthony Eden is the Donald Trump of the Cayman Islands
Mr. Eden your fear of Gay people are noted. As is your inability to conquer it.
As is your inability to employ correct English. Get your parents to read before posting, okay?
Yeah Bush but gambling away $250,000 plus is ethical, you could have given everyone of your bum West Bay supports $1,000 each! So they could wote you back in.
I’m surprised that no one on this forum has yet to address the obvious truth behind these ridiculous statements that have been made in the LA. Anthony Eden, Al Suckoo, and other politicians really couldn’t care less about LGBT rights, or anyone else’s rights for that matter. These MLAs are simply doing what politicians always do. They are tapping into people’s ignorance and fear to get themselves re-elected. Anybody here ever heard of Donald Trump? Those Caymanians that are siding with these guys are just puppets on a string.
If God exists, and is a God of love, then Anthony Eden is going to hell
So you’ve decided on the behalf of God. Okay. Anything else?
Cayman living as what some would call a “pedophile” the community needs to be more considerate and fair, grant us our rights too. We can’t help who we are attracted to. We are not monsters we don’t want to hurt the children we would never.
If you grant their rights we will petition for our rights to LOVE too!
CNS: A frequent and facetious point. You need to read this: LGBT rights are human rights. The two important words are “consenting” and “adults”.
It is not simply a “facetious” point, it is just plain stupid: Pedophiles do hurt the children. While I would not balk if one of my adult offspring were to have a same-sex relationship, I would kill the monster who preyed on my children.
That’s the problem with the “Moral Compass”, it always points towards the owner’s mouth.
Anyway, considering that this was the Budget debate, it seems that Tony spends way too much time thinking about the Gays.
The Cayman Islands could recover any debt it has by selling videos of Legislative Assembly via the Comedy Channel. what a Gong Show.
Anyone else think Mr Eden “doth protest too much”??? On one hand he’s professing his love of public whippings and lamenting getting things “rammed down his throat” and on the other he’s TOTALLY against LGBT…sure you are Mr Eden, if that’s even your real name 😉
He sure does protest too much about us Gays, and I am a Caymanian Gay just to be clear,I have a Caymanian partner so no need to request rights for my non Caymanian partner. But all those who do need to stand up for their rights, we do not need foreigners to do it for us, it is just that most Gay Caymanians are living abroad, where they do not have to stomach the likes of this bigot, what a rat hole this island would be if he had his way, he is no better than ISIS, and should be made to discontinue his stupid rants in the peoples honorable house. He is tired of being racist to the black people of this island, now he has jumped on the Gay bashing wagon, wonder if he knows if someone talks about something all the time, he or she is fascinated with what ever they constantly speak of, sounds like he has a fantasy about us Gays. You are not our type, so give it up, and put your foot in it. Do something positive for these island, instead of inciting hatred towards anyone who is not like you. And stop playing God, he does not need your help; it was a volcano that destroyed Sodom, Molten rock and ash/lava rained down from the sky after the volcano erupted, if it did exist; suppose the dinosaurs were Gay too, so God sent the meteoroid to wipe them out, have to laugh at this man, what a simple fool. Good to know the world does not believe we are all this narrow minded as Eden. When the time is right we Gays will demand our rights as born Caymanians, it is in the making, nothing before its time, just you wait ans see
Public floggings do put the fun back in fundamentalism.
My word, I watched this bigot’s speech on Youtube. What was most shocking was how a man could be so badly dressed. It will haunt me in my dreams.
Have some sympathy. His species expresses fear by raising their scaly dorsal wings. Since they’re constricted under clothing, he goes through a lot of suits.
But that would not explain the tie. Nothing can explain the tie.
I dream of him becoming fabulous. On a more serious note, I feel nothing but pity for Mr. Eden. What is most frightful is that I believe he believes he is doing the right thing.
Mr. Eden, I’ll put it in terms you can relate to: Here is your metaphorical stone. Do you feel able to throw it? Are you so without sin? Think about it. May I remind you of Matthew 7:1? Judge not, least ye be judged.
The serious note ended with the word “fabulous”, mate. Clearly you are all over the place. Keep thinking based on the concept of “culture” and then you might develop some understanding of Mr.Eden and the Caymanian people on the whole. Then travel here, live here, and then make a comment, okay?
At least it’s tied, sportsfan. Take a gander at the other geezer’s!
Maybe “Truman 2” sort of thing? (The poster probably would not have a clue, but perhaps someone actually living here, and with knowledge?)
Mr Eden, you would make ISIS proud.
Don’t get this at all. Maybe I’m not stupid enough. Yeah, that’s it.
What gets me really upset is that the persons pushing this matter is not even Caymanian. Want to see fun let me as a Caymanian go to USA and start to protest over any matter and see how long I last there. This is Cayman and if you come here live by our rules, simply done next.
Push it real good.
What you fail to understand is that our rules include basic human rights. Recognition of such unions already are our rules.
There not YOUR rules, they are human RIGHTS!
And whilst she may not be Caymanian, she is British and this is British territory, you are quite welcome to stage a peaceful protest in London, (if you knew where to find it) as a British citizen. Please come over and see how a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, highly educated and tolerant society really lives. So unless you have the guts to actually back up your wild assertion, you’ll just have to live with it you ignorant Stone Age bigot.
I care not to go to another person country and not follow the laws of the land. And if you can’t be law abiding leave now.
Love it! Keep going!
1. “if you know where to find it” : Usual M.O. to the Caymanian people, whose menfolk have sailed the seven seas for decades. An insult. You should be ashamed at your ignorance.
2. “A British Territory” (“So you’d better watch it, okay?”) Naked imperialism.
3.”Multi, multi.multi” – you get the picture. Another U.K. delusional, poor thing. It ‘ain’t so no matter how many times you voice that mantra. Get real. Travel around the U.K. more.
4. “Highly educated/Tolerant”. Highly debatable/”As long as you agree you will be tolerated, okay?”.
5. “Guts”. Some guts. Still firmly under the heels of the aristocracy..Remember the public money to pay for that dude’s duck-house during that parliamentary expenses debacle? Wake up (in a hurry, before your next post, please!)
6. “You ignorant Stone-Age bigot”. See #1. (Getting a bit old, sportsfan. Quit labeling and start saying something.Start getting a mind of your own.
BUT the foreigner who makes the noise is acting like a voice for the LGBT Caymanian community who are intimidated by the bigotry shown here and have no (or little) voice themselves.
CNS: The rest of this comment is posted here: LGBT rights are human rights
You know I would like to hear from gay Caymanians on this subject…how do they feel about how they are being treated in their own country? I would guess they have learned to adapt as you would have to but what would your preference be, to stay quiet or be accepted?
Well, you’ll be waiting a long time for that, pal. Don’t you know that if a gay person spoke out here in Cayman they’d immediately be stoned to death against a wall? Or put in the stocks, or, well, you get the idea. Hang on, you’ve not been reading the barking mad posts coming out of the U.K. from those ignorant twits, whose closest encounter with the Cayman Islands has probably been gazing upon a travel agent’s front window display, have you?!
yea if you’d like our country to end up like Saudi Arabia under religious law etc feel free to spread your religious views, but just know the law won’t hurt anyone, only people who would find something to argue about when it doesn’t fit their needs
Do any of us in the unrepresented, non voting majority of the population care what goes on in local politics?
I personally don’t, it all seems a little bit of a charade with a good dose of inefficiency and corruption thrown in.
Once again the fickle nature of CNS’ anti-discrimination brigade rears its hypocritical head.
Where are you guys hiding when Caymanians are being attacked daily on this very forum?
Oh, I get it – the majority of you actually concur with those discriminatory remarks. Also this very thread is but another example of the anti-Caymanian circle-jerk of CNS.
As you were…keep the tissues handy tho.
😉
– Who
as usual…in whodatis land…two wrongs make it right….how about addressing the issue at hand…?
Troll Law #42: “When your primary position is pretty indefensible, default to deflection.”
This commemt is symptomatic of a problem in our culture: when the going gets rough and ya get ya nose t’umped, ya go runnin off cryin “Waahhh! No fair!”. This is a fairly open forum so you are more than free to post a counter-attack if you feel unjustly attacked. I am Caymainian and proud of it. Multi-cultural/multi-ethnic like many if not most Caymanians and proud of that too. If I feel attacked or marginalised roun yah, I nah gunna whine like whip puppy, I gonna t’ump em back.
You need to step outta your nappy and square your shoulders like an adult, start fighting your own battles and encourage other Caymanians to do so too. A significant segment of our society seems to have the mindset that we are powerless to shape our destiny and it has become a self-fullfiling attitude. Grow up, dammit! Stop the whining and join the fight.
BTW: Your reference to CNS being a “circle jerk” is an interesting analogy, but, most circle jerks are fun for everyone, (the ones I’ve experienced anyway. Many of ’em even coed. Anywayyy…) You don’t sound like you are having much fun in this circle. My advice: if someone jerks you the wrong way, jerk them the hell back. Don’t expect others to do the jerking for you. Happy jerking amigo!
I am concerned more with gays rights than fictional discrimination.
One categorizes discrimination as fictional when one supports it.
You are a waste of tissue and organs.
Moving swiftly along…
– Who
Categorizing discrimination as fictional means you support it… yo mean like you do with your tired old trope about your gay Caymanian cousins being totally happy not having equal rights and being discriminated against?
That’s the problem with red brick logic, it descends to to the playground very quickly.
My goodness, I recently called my very dear friend and drinking partner “a complete waste of space” (as guys do as a term of endearment) but this “waste of tissue and organs” thing sounds distinctly ghoulish!
” He gonna fry us as well ” – ah, the sort of words so beloved of fundamentalist preachers of old. Whose principal objective was to frighten the living daylights out of a simple, frequently poorly educated congregation, so that they could be kept under control.
Well, sorry Mr Eden, there is no burning fiery furnace with horned imps prodding you into the flames with nasty pointy things.
If we must tackle the unknown, then, for those who have great faith and belief, probably the best image is that the immortal souls of those who make it, will forever enjoy the warmth and joy of the infinite love of their God. For the rest, their Hell will be to be given a momentary glimpse of what might have been, and then to know it is denied to them forever.
Religious fundamentalism, of whatever creed, has caused as much grief to people around the World, as all the armed conflicts, for millennia.
In all of this, the essential words are – ” A God of infinite love ” – and you can add – and “foregiveness”
Thank God we still have people like Mr. Eden who will stand up for what is right. It is very sad that his colleagues Panton and Bodden have been reluctant to supported him in any real way. Stand tall Mr. Eden against the forces of evil.
Mr Eden is more concerned about what hole people decide to use for sex behind close doors while ignoring a real issue here on island, like the dump and the destruction of our beautiful coral. It doesn’t take a genius to see that there are people who are fighting for their right’s and very freedom from people just like Mr Eden across the world. It also doesn’t take a genius to see people are fighting to protect and save coral not only from bleaching which is do to climate change but from people who deem it reasonable to destroy such an important factor to our eco system. How Mr Eden, do you justify the discrimination for your fellow human being, who has the same blood you have and has feeling just the same as you do. How can you look down on your fellow people and say they should have no rights? How can you sit back and ignore such devastation to our island? There is no evidentual proof to even remotely suggest that gay’s and transgenders are what you call “evil”…. in fact let me tell you what evil is… killing hundreds if not thousands of important marine life and the destruction of their natural habitat. Nothing is worth that. I repeat. Nothing is worth that destruction. Grow up Mr Eden, we don’t live in the dark ages anymore. This is the 21st century. No more burning witches at the stakes, no more stoning of gay people and no more discrimination based on illogical religious beliefs. You sound like a radical muslim when you preach how homosexuals are evil. If you are that hell bent on waging a war on homosexual behavior, look no further than ISIS. They torture and kill gay’s in the name of Islam. They discriminate against there fellow brethren because they prefer to be gay. Tell me what the difference is between ISIS who discriminates against homosexuals based off Islam and Mr Eden who discriminates homosexuals based of his religion? Let me tell ya the difference, ISIS are more brave to carry out their religious context to the full extent. Mr Eden is a coward who does not. Either start walking around with a basket of rocks in one hand Mr Eden and bible in the next or just stfu.
“I hate Cayman Nazis”
“Eden called for the return of corporal punishment for sex offenders”??? No…no freaking wayyy! This is a joke, right? I am (almost) speechless over this statement. Of course I am never speechless, but, damn, this beats any ignorance that Mac ever spouted. Eden must be getting senile, this is a modern western country in the 21st century for godssake, not 11th century Baghdad!
I have heard and read an amazing amount of shocking and stupid stuff come from politicians over the last few decades, lots of pure BS and tripe spewed in the House, but Eden takes the cake for uttering the most appallingly evil and supremely ignorant thing I have ever heard from any politician. Bar none! I have rubbed shoulders at church and bar with many an MLA (often with the same person on the same day) and none have ever said something like this in my presence–not even in a booze induced moment of uninhibited candor–and been actually serious about it. If this were April 1st, it could be cast off as a sick joke. But this man is serious! The most shocking thing is that he has a cadre of equally brain-dead, rabid fundamentalist, myth-book-thumping supporters who see nothing wrong with the idea!
What really makes me want to puke is the possibility the the Cayman Ministers Association (CMA) will continue to side with Eden on the issue. IF these so-called “men of God” were truly Christians they would publicly distance themselves from him and publicly cry out against what he said. Big “if” because from what I have witnessed over the years, the CMA as a group are just as wacko, just as rabidly and morbidly homophobic, and just as crazy-fundie as Eden is. It would not surprise me if CMA members volunteered to rotate turns with the cane.
Especially nauseating is the fact that the CMA have not yet taken a public stance on another behaviour that Jesus Himself soundly condemned as being horribly sinful: the treatment of those poor Cubans who land on our shores seeking respite from a godless and repressive regime. About the only “sin” that gets the CMA’s collective panties in a knot is LGBT sex. They are ok with your typical everyday recreational shagging among non-marrieds (as long as your straight), no public outcry there. Just don’t do more than hold hands in church, and put some cash in the plate and “come-back-again-next-Suday!”. They are apparently having no issue with hetero couples living in “sin” – no public outcry there. Ok with leaders of this land lying to the people, no prob, just have that liar pray at the Prayer Breakfast (and give us a cheque for our ministry) and it’s all good! But let gay sex be the topic and the CMA have hissy coniption fits like nobody’s business.
Ok, say Eden gets his wish and we flog people for “sex crimes”. Who decides what constitutes a “sex crime”? Eden? God forbid! Next thing he could suggest is whipping me for having a quick session with “myself”. (Well, it’ s hardly ever “quick”, especially if it involves a stack of new mags with hot centerfolds; and if the whipping involves some swats with a leather flogger…Oooooo! That could be fun! But anyway…). What next? Applying sound Biblical punishments, do we: Stone someone for having a little tumble in the hay on the side? Burn witches? Stone women who are not virgins on their wedding night? (Now THAT would clear rocks from our beaches real fast!) Execute children for rebellion against parents? Take lobster off the menus because it is “unclean”? What about (and this is too funny, but it actually is in the Bible) when two men fight and the wife of one tries to save her hubby by grabbing the other guy by his goolies: Do we cut off her hand as the Bible commands, Tony? Geeze! Where does it end?
I suggest that Eden change his name and title to something more suitable to his religious mindset: how about Mullah Muhamed Habbabi Eden? After he resigns, that is. Log this as my call for his resignation. (Amen?)
Actually this is genius. What better way to get a law allowing LGBT equal rights than by going against it and letting the quiet majority be heard over the cry’s the special interest groups.
There are lots of Caymanians that will vote to approve.
The gift that keeps on giving.
I’ll bet if the USA had a referendum back in the 60’s over civil rights and desegregation it would not pass. A referendum here would surely be opposed to equal rights for LGBT, but THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT!
Funny that the Caymanian people, mostly black and with slave ancestors, would passionately oppose equal rights to anyone. Bigotry and discrimination disguised as “religious freedom” is still bigotry and discrimination. One day, sooner rather than later I hope, you will wake up and see you are on the wrong side of history, and beg your children for forgiveness.
Ashamed to be a Caymanian.
How can you possibly equate the plight of slaves and the horrors of slavery to gays who are married and want to have their spouse as dependents. Two white highly paid lawyers have little in common with slaves that shared the same status as cattle that could be beaten and killed at will. It’s an outrageous comparison.
Because such ignorance doesn’t take account of the fact that the original Cayman settlers were white British who brought a small number of slaves here over many decades to work the limited land and provide service. As far as I’m aware, those slaves who came to Cayman between first settlement in the early 1700’s and emancipation in the early 1800’s were treated much more humanly than those who remained on Jamaica, (the mother island to Cayman at the time).
The ratio of whites or freemen was an even balance between them and the enslaved. In fact I suppose it could be argued that unless you were freemen you couldn’t be classed as Caymanian. And in theory most people were probably citizens of their Jamaican protectorate in any case.
The truth is that most modern Caymanians are descended from all of the various different peoples surrounding these islands. Caymanians are NOT a majority black community, they are a mix of many as you can see from the obvious ethnic mix, features, cultures and familial make up. Take a look further than your own nose.
I know many generational Caymanians who are definitely black, who have very white relations and very Latino looking children.
Please tell me why those of inter racial background always choose to be ‘black’ instead of celebrating their mixed heritage?
Is that bad, hell no.
But please don’t try and reinvent history to justify your own bigotry, this is NOT a soveriegn country, it remains a territory of Britain with many British ancestral links. This is NOT Africa or Jamaica, don’t try to grab the moral high ground by claiming your ‘rights’ 200 years after the ending of slavery. Especially when almost every other emancipated country is now a basket case and riven with murder, ethnic cleansing, tribal war, corruption and incompetence.
But the one thing most have in common with Cayman, is religious and sexual bigotry.
You must be so proud.
what exactly is it that youre on… because the rest of us need it too. Are we talking about slavery (of which there is a clear record as it existed in general) or of a limited version of what happened in Cayman only? And even then you have a sanitized version of slavery in Cayman which you think you need to spew out to defend the indefensible. I am not saying that gays don’t have an argument but it sure has nothing to do with the horrors of slavery as we all know it and it sure doesn’t deflect from the fact that youre spewing nonsense. Slaves in Cayman were beaten like cattle too at the whipping posts! That is documented so please don’t start with ‘our slaves were treated better than everybody else’s’! Its simply not the same, no matter how you try to dress it up and white wash it (no pun intended!).
Many a Bible scholar has warned of the dangers of race mixing and the natural order of slavery. Cayman ignored those warnings from godly people.
Who seriously believes we, Caymanians, are the ‘deciders’ in this matter. Remember the gallows? Spent piles of our money on that sucker just to tear it down on orders of the U.K. Human rights trumps radical religious fear mongering, at least in civilized countries.
Until our MLAs who still live in the dark ages are replaced by more forward thinking Caymanians, this place is going to die a slow death. This is a non-issue that they are arguing when there are far more pressing matters like for instance something called The Dump…..
And let’s not ignore the destruction of our coral as well SSM345. Can you imagine? Climate change is real and it’s affecting the oceans coral which people all over the world are fighting to protect it from bleaching, while we’re over here ready to destroy it and potentially cause more coral bleaching. It’s funny how religious extremist of Islam who descriminate against homosexuals justify their belief through the Quran, while Mr Eden does the same thing only he calls himself a “christian”. Utter BS.
So Eden announces this topic is his “favourite subject”, and goes on to fondly reminisce about public floggings. He should be told to keep his creepy mind out of the public’s pants.
I seriously doubt God has any time for this foolishness.
If you watch all those athletes who are always crossing themselves and looking skyward whenever they score or win, it is plainly obvious that He spends most of His time watching sports on TV.
You are obviously a person of deep religious convictions, the way you are mocking God. Your opening sentence – my, so you know the mind of God?
He talks to me in the voices in my head. He sounds a lot like Jack Nicholson in Batman which came as a surprise.
I am God. And God loves gay people.
caymanian ‘christians’ should ask thenmselves one question:
what would jesus do?
end of story.
That sandal wearing, long haired hippy would be chased out of town by those who subscribe most ardently to his movement.
Oh, you mean as in “Let he who is without sin…”? Gee, that leaves us to having to hire an expat as “Official Whipper of Sex Criminals and Onanists”.
No. There must be Caymanians qualified to do that who can hold that post. In fact, I know guys who never got any fancy qualifications like these furriners but they have been whipping onanists and deviants long before West Bay road stopped being all bush.
If qualifications are still required UCCI should add this to the curriculum and any expat hired should be forced to mentor a Caymanian for this role and leave your pension behind.
u forgot………….Go and sin no more.
Your mistake is in believing yourself so high up there above every other man that you can pass judgment on them in Gods name. Only a fool would allow himself to be judged by such a person.
Mr. Eden has shown himself to be the small minded, prejudiced and out of touch politician who needs to go away. Cayman doesn’t need his sort of leadership. And I use that word loosely. He and his type are slowly giving way to a more educated, world savvy Caymanian, better educated in what it means to respect people of all persuasions, regardless of whether they agree with you or not. Human rights are rights for all. Regardless of race, religion, gender or sexual persuasion. It is a simple concept. Sometimes too simple for the mind of someone blinded by religious bigotry.
Speaking of simplicity, and thinking as such, please reread your post twenty times at least and critique it.
Civil partnership. End of story.
Until the day my gay cousins and gay fellow Caymanians voice grievances regarding their rights in this regard (subsequent to the implementation of said civil partnership framework) then I too shall dismiss the proposals of the FCO, governor, her daughter, an attorney, and one Mr. Mickey Mouse as well.
Believe it or not folks, there may be places on this earth that regard safeguarding the traditional, Christian (insert respective faith / belief / customs) culture of their community above a call to amend the definition of marriage therein.
Yes. Open YOUR minds and quit assuming that those of every person that objects to the modern, western approach (a global minority by the way) to this issue are closed.
– Whodatis
End of story? Discrimination, but a bit less than before. Sounds like given some women the vote. Or freeing half the slaves.
Whodatis is like the old massa who thinks that his slaves are perfectly content because they ain’t uppity.
Well said Diogenes, well said!
Well thank goodness the educated and skilled Caymanians are experiencing no forms of discrimination in their own country – otherwise kind souls like yourselves would be flying flags on their behalf similar to what we are seeing on the (alleged) LGBT issue.
– Whodatis
Sorry, not end of story: As 6:26 points out, Civil Partnerships are (perhaps) less of a discrimination, but still discriminatory.
While there *may* “be places on this earth that regard safeguarding the traditional, Christian (insert respective faith / belief / customs) culture of their community above a call to amend the definition of marriage therein”, I do not believe that guarding the faith is the sincere motive behind the bulk of opposition to same-sex marriage. It is the “custom” of mindless bigotry and hate, end of story. The collective of faith around here turn a comparatively mute face to almost any other form of what they tout as immorality or sin; but let the issue touch on any rights for LGBT’s and they raise holy rass about it. Liars, bigots, fornicators, adulterers and all manner of other evil doers are welcome among the congregation, but let two guys or girls enter their midst holding hands and all hissy will break loose. Any explanation?
Perhaps I missed it, but, what is your personal stance is on the subject of gay marriage? If Caymanian society embraced same-sex marriage, would you also embrace it? Yes? No? And why? Just wonderin’.
Cayman Islands be careful, lgbt didn’t make cayman prosperous. Prosperity is a gift that can surely be taken away as fast as it was given.
Don’t bite the hand that feed you.
#God is watching us.
The love of money made Cayman prosperous. God had nothing to do with it.
I am repulsed by the thought of a man and another man…
On the other hand the vision of two sexy women making out – is a beautiful thing…
Now there speaks a man of reason – or maybe a woman …..oh, my goodness, life is so complicated, I need another beer.
I got extra whitetip and caybrew in the cooler round back if you wanna grab a six pack
Thanks, mate.
Thinks he is funny. But shows himself to be a ignorant tool.
Should be “an” ignorant tool/fool….. – or were you having a bit of fun yourself?!
If the gays are so open minded why can’t they be open minded about close minded homophobic people?
I feel that they should respect our small island homophobic mentality.
In his twilight years, Mr Eden has developed into a fundamentalist quasi lay preacher and his belief in the literal truth of every single word in the Bible (notwithstanding the many contradictions therein) means that he has developed a very hostile attitude to those he deems to be suffering from Satanic Confusion. There is a truly chilling part towards the end of his speech when he mentions human rights then breaks off from his speech and cries out emotionally “There’s only one right , Madam Speaker, and he reigns on high”. He then points out God “incinerated Sodom and Gomorrah” because they didn’t do his will and “He gonna fry us as well”, presumably if we don’t listen to him and the Cayman Ministers’ Association with whom he and some of his colleagues have just met. There’s just nothing you can do with this type of thinking except wait for it to die out as the generations pass and are replenished and rejuvenated by younger more intelligent and tolerant persons. The vast majority of educated young Caymanians who, one hopes, will eventually take their seats in the LA do not think like Mr Eden and his fellow worshippers of the supposedly literal truth of every single word of the Bible.
4:15 You need a lot of prayer.
Like prayer does anything
Anthony Eden, you are a nasty piece of work for sure…..
Actually, he’s not 4:14, but his awful views on this issue certainly make him appear that way.
Why woud two people troll this fairly mild comment?
“He said he believed the vast majority of Caymanians were behind him.” Really? I missed out on the daisy chain?
I could get behind Mr. Eden, not sure he’d like it though.
And I’m behind you with my whip!
*Butt only for foreplay, not punishment. Butt it can be if you’re up for it. Call me.
Eden should be given the highest honor available. Standing up for what he believes in, nothing wrong there, people make stances every day for what they believe, but to do what he did was so brave and full of conviction. I’m glad to see that there are people who stand behind their beliefs left in this world.
Terrorists and hate groups stand up for their beliefs too….so yes there can be something wrong there
And that’s why we have cayman. Everywhere else is being torn to pieces and yet we can have a place like paradise. Why ruin it for w few? Have you seen the recent article regarding the gun crimes? Keep pushing it and you will see where cayman ends up…..eventually no one will want to live here.
Which article is this?
Tell him to come Palms Sunday
4:05. Thanks for your kind support.
Dr. Raznovich and his husband stand up for what they believe in. Good for you supporting those who stand up for their beliefs! Bravo! Like you I too think that people like them deserve all kudos and honour for being so brave. Arguably Raznovich and his husband are even braver than Eden: he claims to have huge support among the Caymanian people; Raznovich and his husband are in the minority.
Stand Up for what you believe in. We all have to stand before God one day and the lgbt can’t help them on that faithfull day .
I am against harming someone for their sexulaity but please don’t force that life style on people , remember it’s a choice and u were not born that way.
Cayman need more Mla like Mr Eden and Bush.
May God help us.
#passionate Caymanian.
How are they forcing their life style on you. They don’t want to marry you, they just want their love to be recognised. I really don’t understand what everyone is so scared of. If you aren’t gay, you aren’t gay, nobody is going to make you do anything you don’t want to do. It has no bearing on your life whats so ever. Why can’t people live and live and stop being so judgemental? I know loving the same sex is difficult to understand because you are hetrosexual, as am I, but millions of people around the world are not lying about their feelings. They are not evil, they don’t have a desease it is just how God has made them. It’s as biological as skin colour, they are gay and there have been gay people since time began. So all you haters out there, just TRY to see it from a gay persons point of view. You are telling them they are horrible, evil just because of who they love and the way they have sex, which has absolutley nothing to do with you. If it’s the fact some gay man practice anal sex, then for the record, some hetrosexuals find it pleasurable too. Just saying.
“but please don’t force that life style on people”
Which is exactly what Eden is trying to do as are many other “Christians” ……in the East they do it too by a group known as ISIS.
Some people are born homosexual, some people choose to be homosexual and some have homosexuality thrust upon them.
Don’t go to jail then.
Nice one. Good old Will, as relevant today as ever!
Get rid of ‘foreigners’, grab back ‘our’ land, force 51% ‘local’ ownership on companies, politicians who enrich themselves at the expense of their own people, backwards looking politics, a failure to produce exports and a self indulgent and self righteous attitude to almost everything.
Yep, certainly does sound like Zimbabwe.
Cayman has laws on the books for 60% Caymanian owned. Been like that for years. Get your facts before you comment.
Hey dodo, (7:50) the comment wasn’t a literal 51% for Cayman, (but it was for Zim) it was an indicator that backwards looking countries insist on grabbing a share without actually contributing anything.
And it’s law in Zimbabwe, and has been for years, but does that make it okay?
So you see, you have just qualified my comment by actually making the ‘grab’ look worse.
Suggest you stop listening to those duppies in your head and think before you attempt to put down a reasonable argument.
How about doing some meaningful work for your disgustingly massive salaries?
Politicians are a truly awful breed who make their living by creating fear among those who are easily distracted.
We really need terms limited to a single four year period.
Otherwise the fate of the country will always be left in the hands of too many ignorant fools.
So lets get this straight…you can beat your spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend, you can cheat on your spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend, thats ok, but you take two people and just because they are the same sex that care and/or love each other and you are going to state that the country will accept the Human Rights but not Gay Unions because of our culture??? Give me a break? You sound as ignorant as they come. I hope the EU comes down on the Cayman Islands for not following the Human Rights, see where that gets you…
“Give me a break?” Seeing as you’ve posed this as a question (in your ignorance) let me give you an answer : no.
9:08 6/6/16 that was an error…didn’t realize comments would be so harsh on a question mark, when the story at hand is the problem. Cayman is breaking the law with Humane Rights with the EU see what happens when someone starts making this really public outside of Cayman. Is the bettter, no question marks other then this one?
I would support 2-3 term term limits, but certainly not 1-term. Just when they start to get some experience they are out. 8-12 years seems reasonable, but show me one MLA who would support that. I would vote for them for sure.
The Governor has overstepped her mark! The Governor should remain neutral in this matter until it is determined that the law has been changed. She cannot as HM representative back her daughters initiative to instigate legislative change in a country she is not from and is not entitled to vote in. The Governor and her daughter are sadly now simply engaging in politics. Caymanians and those that have the right to vote here should be given the opportunity to change the laws by a democratic process or the Government of the day can take the necessary steps as they see fit. And the LGBT can continue to advance their cause as they see fit. If HM/FCO decides they want gay rights or our immigration laws to change then the FCO can come out and say so or the Governor should come out and confirm that this is the FCO’s position. But it is simply not right for the Governor to engage in subversive tactics in her position with her daughter. Its actually outrageous!
The British think they can get away with this the same way they imposed the abolition of slavery on Cayman in 1830. That was certainly not something that Caymanians wanted to do, and look where it has led.
“Yep, they just waltzed in here and the next thing you know, I am emancipated! Not even a by your leave, destitute I was, my livelihood gone overnight. Bloody do gooders!”
The usual dribble. As I said, if this is the FCOs position, then so be it. We are still their territory and they are still our administrators. But that’s not the position here. This is the Governors daughter and the Governor in tow leading an initiative to change our laws. Please don’t equate this to the abolition of slavery .
Would you also like us to wait for you to provide us with suitable, articulate opinions on the subjects of the day to express too? If your say yes, we will be waiting a long time for your input because you cease to display any real mental agility or intellectual might with your comments.
Your simple belief is that people should come here and let you do and say whatever you choose to they because they have entered your home country. You should stay in your home because the wrong person might forcefully put you in your place. Personally, I am content to let you wallow in your narrow minded stupidity as you people chase away international investment and whine about anything that does not comply with your small minded agenda.
caymankind….
Taking licks, chastisement and public whipping – I suppose it is an improvement on his usual line about having it rammed down his throat, but Mr Eden does need to avoid the obvious double entendres if he wants to be taken seriously.
You are assuming Eden actually knows the meaning of ‘double entendres’
Anthony Eden 4 Premier
‘Which he noted could be his last.’ Am I the only one out here who sincerely wishes he would do just that – shut up and go away. I remember seeing Mr Eden speaking (rambling on would be a better description) at a public event ten years and it was embarrassing then. All he’s doing in the LA now is holding us back.
And before anyone jumps in – I do not for one second dispute Mr Eden’s right to hold the opinions he’s expressed. In fact I have some sympathy with them because to me it seems the whole gay rights movement is getting to be overkill. What I do object to are his attempts to impose those views on others – that is after all what the Taliban and ISIS do, and last time I checked we were at war with them.
I wish Her Excellency would choose more pressing matters to spend her time on. We all have different priorities but I believe most people are very concerned about the level of crime in this country. She is directly responsible for the National Security of the Cayman Islands yet what has she done to improve the situation?
Is this a Daily Mash article? Have I gone to the wrong website again!
Be careful about the corporal punishment thing too, once the masochists hear about it, this place will be like a magnet for them!
Eden, Bush – you are out of touch and have no clue what Human Rights are, or the legal obligations the Cayman Islands Government already faces. There is no place for populism in these issues, but I believe you will be shocked as to how wide the support is in Cayman for recognition of these relationships.
You are for one huge shock, sportsfan.
How does what people do in the own homes affect Anthony Eden? This is the type of attitudes that caused genocides in Africa, most of the crimes against humanity in WW2 and not to mention many other atrocities.
Anthony Eden is not the moral compass of the world, and by the sounds of things if he was then the world would probably be a much worse place.
Hopefully this is his last term in office, and that we can get some more open minded individuals in office during the next election.
Look, sportsfan, get off your soap box and try and get through reading this alongside your tirade:
a. It depends on how close your house is to his and if you have the windows open at night if the mood strikes. b. A huge statement : basically stupid. c.You come across as a bit of a moral compass yourself, truth be told. (Look up “self-righteous”) d. Relax, you’re (hopefully) unable to vote here. (And by the way, I hear the weather in the U.K. is wonderful : hot, just like the weather here : rainy. (Ask someone to explain that to you, okay?)