Veteran MLA calls homosexuals evil
Bodden Town MLA Anthony Eden
(CNS): One of the oldest sitting members in the Cayman Islands Legislative Assembly, Anthony Eden, has derided rights for the Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender (LGBT) community and warned that the next step would be bestiality, as “people demanded the right to make love to their animals”. Debating a private member’s motion asking government to preserve “traditional marriage”, Thursday, the 23-year political veteran was vehement in his condemnation of homosexuality, which he said was “evil”, and launched an outright attack on LGBTs.
In a speech focused on the Bible, he said Satan was working through educators and others, including the media, who used words to describe “deviant behavior” in a way to convince people it was acceptable.
“A social and moral evil is being promoted as normal behavior,” he said, adding that those who believe in the Bible are accused of hate speech.
He said his motion was one of the most important ones he had brought, insisting that marriage had to be between a man and a woman.
The first elected member for Bodden Town, who was one of the founders of the ruling People’s Progressive Movement, said that “what liberal progressives don’t understand” is that the Bible had predicted what was happening today.
In a speech in which he attacked not just the gay lifestyle but homosexuals themselves, in particular men, the MLA quoted from the religious conservative press and asked when it was that “child molesting had become man-boy love and crushing a baby’s skull and sucking out their brains had become a human right”.
Eden also threatened the possibility of violence as he warned homosexuals to stay away from his children or grandchildren.
Angered by the lecture series organized by the Truman Bodden Law School examining the inequities in Cayman Islands legislation relating to the LGBT community, Eden said the focus was misplaced but then, ironically, spent almost an hour of parliamentary time attacking the gay community.
The MLA said people were losing their homes, kids were going hungry, the country was in desperate need of a mental health facility and improving education standards but claimed that “people that come here” were focused on gay rights. He was particularly enraged by the implication from a visiting lecturer that Cayman needed to equalize the age of consent for all, regardless of sexual orientation, to sixteen years.
Eden implied that allowing rights for homosexuals would lead to multiple husbands and man-boy love and various other behaviour, which he described as “wicked and immoral”, that he claimed, without explanation, would ruin people for marriage between a man and a woman.
Dismissing the idea of any reforms to protect the LGBT community from discrimination because of sexual orientation, the local politician also described medical problems that he believed were common among gay men because of the act of anal intercourse.
Taking an ultra-conservative position, the veteran MLA dismissed any consideration of rights for homosexuals and called upon government to “affirm to maintain the definition of marriage to be as expressly provided for by the Constitution and Law as being between persons of the opposite sex”.
The position taken by the 70-year-old member was echoed by some of the younger members of the Legislative Assembly.
His Bodden Town colleague and the youngest MLA, backbencher Alva Suckoo, seconded the motion. While his speech was less extreme than the one presented by Eden, he offered his support for what he described as the “important points”. He said it was a discussion that the country had to have because the rest of the world was promoting the idea of same-sex marriages and, as an overseas territory, Cayman would have to address the issue. Suckoo said that any decision made by political representatives in relation to the matter should not be made against what the people want.
He said he did not support a “lifestyle” or concept that goes against the local culture and said same-sex unions were a sin. Cayman, he maintained, was a Christian society. Suckoo also said he believed that members of the LGBT community were choosing that lifestyle and government “could not legislate for a sin”.
The only other MLA to speak on the motion, although it was supported by the members who were present in the Chamber when it went to the vote, was Finance Minister Marco Archer, who also pointed to his religious position for condemning homosexuality. Taking a ‘condemn the sin not the sinner’ approach, he was still keen to ensure that marriage remained between two people of the opposite sex. While acknowledging the fact that no formal legal petition has yet been made from the LGBT community, he was clearly fearful of the idea of marriage equality.
The minister said he liked to think he was a fair person. He said the LGBT community “shouldn’t be persecuted” because they are “humans just like we are and they have feelings just like we do”.
He said if there was a desire in that community for equality regarding property ownership, laws could be passed to provide for that without changing the definition of the marriage law or the Cayman Constitution.
The motion was largely academic as it simply reaffirmed what is already law, which would not prevent government for passing separate legislation for civil unions for same-sex couples.
The Human Rights Commission has advised government to begin addressing legislation because, given precedent already in the European Court of Human Rights, the Cayman Islands would struggle to defend its current position to continue discriminating against the LGBT community.
In politics stupidity is not a handicap!
Anthony, some years ago, fourteen to be exact, my sister returned from Australia and told my family that she was gay. My father, close to your age at the time, couldn’t have cared less about her sexual orientation. In fact, all that he seemed to care about is that she continue to lead a healthy and productive life. I mentioned that my father was close to your current age at the time because I want you to understand that age should never be used as an excuse for ignorance. In fact, one would assume that a man of your age and experience would somehow know better than to hallucinate about homosexuality turning into bestiality and the molestation of Caymanian children. The ideas that you expressed are unfounded and completely ignorant. The fact that this somehow escapes you is worrisome given the position that you occupy. It’s one thing for a street bum to peddle off malevolent, incoherent, uneducated and unsophisticated ideas to the masses, it’s another for a senior Member of the Legislative Assembly to do so. After sharing her sexual orientation with us, life continued for our family, as usual, with little fuss and muss. I hope that should one of your grandchildren or great grand children ever come up to you to let you know that they are gay that you accept them with open arms, the same as you accept the writings of some self-serving men thousands of years ago. My suggestion is that instead of ranting about fire and brimstone all day long you change your tune to love and acceptance of everyone, as the good little Christian that you pretend to be. I’m sure that if there is a God he wouldn’t be too bothered about the homosexuals, just as he wouldn’t be too troubled about the fact that many Caymanians married a bit too closely back in the days…
CNS – whats the record for number of comments ?
CNS: From memory and without checking, I believe there were 400 on the story about the homeowner shooting an intruder.
A friend of mine suggested that the UK should, as Governor Kilpatrick’s replacement, send an openly gay man and his husband to be the Governor. That would serve us right for Eden’s hideous nonsense.
“Us”?
Then again, that is the British colonial way. Flex power over the powerless to show the world how strong they are.
I have been saying that is probably part of the agenda for the future for a while now. If they want to embarrass themselves let them go ahead. It would not end well.
Meanwhile in an undersea cavern, Moby Dick plots his return. This is not an issue to cry over. Being married only gives you certain immigration status really. Otherwise lgbt rights are the same as everyone else on the island. There are many openly LGBT’s on island who live their lives normally, have joint bank accounts normally, own houses together businesses etc. It would be different if LGBT’s were fully oppressed and suffering in Cayman and if there was constant violence and displays against the LGBT community, then that would be an argument.
Cayman as far as I remember has always had a pro heterosexual position on this issue but did so without real harm to anyone. Also LGBT activists need to realize that not everyone has the same opinion on the matter. Not every Caymanian hates LGBT nor does every leader. Flamboyant personalities on both sides of the LGBT and Heterosexual spectrum often come off as ignorant when giving opinions and also make a mountain of mole hills. This is another case. Mr. Eden stated his opinion as harsh as it was and also the other members supported based on their own positions not necessarily having the same view as Mr. Eden . This may change at some point in the future, but for now live your lives as you have always done, and as usual there are always alternative ways of achieving what you wish. We are all humans so be humans. The Cayman Islands has a right to define itself and in this case for the time being it has, however there is nothing that stops another motion from striking this definition out of the books and implementing marriage rights between LGBT’s.
Nothing is wrong with them having equal rights….but why challenge the definition of married? It’s only meant to destroy a holy communion between man and woman like its some joke! Give them rights! Make up something like a contract of some sort, and call it something like “legal gaynection” or something. But leave marriage alone.
Great Job Mr. Eden, lets also change the definition of marriage as between LOYAL men and women. Because we all know how faithful ‘Christian’ people are to their spouses (50% of marriages in cayman end in divorce). Oh and while your at it, make rothmans and bensons illegal, because we know that the only reason I smoke is because they are legal. So if you make same sex marriage legal, people would have no other choice but to marry people of their sex, obviously.
Seriously people this is a joke, I call all expats to leave this island and take their billions of dollars in offshore money. We don’t need it. We will be happy not being known as one of the largest financial centres in the world and losing half of our economy.
Let me get this right: you are a Caymanian rallying all expats (possibly “Gay expats”) to leave these Islands simply because we (your fellow Caymanians) are reluctant to passing laws that would insult our moral standards and way of life.
That’s the problem with some of us: everything comes down to MONEY, even at the expense of our moral standards. If there is ever a time that morality is on trial it is now.
Well I got this word for you: You may have sold your soul to the Devil, but God is BIGGER than you, whomever, and whatever you defend. So I suggest you revisit your roots and rediscover what truly made us the Cayman Islands that we have always been known for.
MONEY CANNOT BUY THE FAVOR OF GOD. As matter of fact: “Money is the root of all evil”. There is absolutely no difference between the CORRUPTION exposed in FIFA, and the CORRUPTION of homosexuality: the former was as a result of GREED, and the latter threatens to use FINANCIAL POWER (MONEY) to get what THEY want.
There is another IVAN on the horizon for all those here who boldly make mockery of God and His Church.
True worshipers of the true God, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, have nothing to fear: we will always prosper, even in the worst of situations.
Proud CHRISTIAN Caymanian
For the love of money is the root of all evil, not money itself. Good comment otherwise. Fear should not determine peoples’ rights. Just because a few fear the changes these rights will bring they carry on like children, sad really. You can’t be a tourist destination and dictate who can come and go based on sexual orientation; that’s discrimination to the fullest. So, we must legalize gay marriage and accept the changes that come with it. Gays don’t bother me; criminals do of all shapes and sizes. Crime is certainly a major issue plaguing us all these days not the Gay folks who just want to live their lives freely. Man cannot judge one another God will do that one day; so let the Gays be. I have gay friends and it doesn’t change my sexual orientation of being heterosexual, they don’t judge me either for not being Gay, so why all the hate?
Bye. I prefer the mosquitoes.
Hooray for Anthony, and Alva!…Lead us to a time when the sun orbited the earth.
Eden can explain to us all why planes don’t crash into the firmament.
Not that that has anything to do with the issue.
He should be fired without any pay. He is unfit person to run the country. He also be force to apologises to everyone in cayman islands.
So THAT’s the consequences of being straight in today’s world, daaam.
Not a consequence of being straight, but a consequence of being stupid.
Who the cap fits.
I suggest they wear it.
For what?????? What an idiot.
He does not need to apologise to me.
Divorce between a man and woman is harsh enough especially if the woman is behaving like a bitch…
Imagine the cat-fight if two women are divorcing and they are both behaving like bitches…
Yow gay divorce court would be awesome!
Hopefully Eden can advise if gays get Good AIDS or Bad AIDS. Please tell us Anthony.
You need some HEARING AIDS and MENTAL HEALTH AID cause you obviously don’t know anything about the transmission of AIDS.
This will escalate and end in paedophilia and bestiality. We should gather all pets and children into the nearest stadium at once!
Very sad to see morons like this still running the show, I really thought we had left that nonsense behind after the gay kiss.
Questions to Eden and any other naysayers:
1) If you are basing this on the Bible, and I assume you actually read it, what measures are you taking to ban the fishing and eating of shellfish from the Cayman Islands =, seeing as though that is referenced as an abomination FOUR TIMES MORE than man laying with man?
2) You say it will lead to child molestation and bestiality? where is your evidence for this? XXXXX
When these dinosaurs pass on, Cayman will prosper
I miss and love you Cayman but not these ignorants who lap up the slave master’s control book their ancestors were forced to.
“Have you forgotten that once we were brought here, we were robbed of our name, robbed of our language. We lost our religion, our culture, our god…and many of us, by the way we act, we even lost our minds” – Khalid Muhammad
They are basing it on the new testament. Eating shellfish is fine for Christians. If you cannot use morality to restrain the proclivities of perverts then obviously there is nothing to stop it leading to those things.
I am awaiting the article about transgenders.
All of the Bible thumpers will come into union at the front steps of the CIG and cry,
“Man who is a woman? Woman who is a man? Outrageous! How am I, a Christian, supposed to frick? How am I supposed to know what is…you know….down there? I am horrified! I am on my third marriage and I don’t think this is going to work out in the great Cayman Islands. I can’t read, I heard this all on Radio Cayman.”
Not only is this commentary based on nothing but opinion but it includes the promise of violence. I can understand if someone does not “believe in” or “approve of” someone else’s lifestyle (whether it be drug lifestyle, homosexuality lifestyle, party lifestyle etc.) But once that person threatens violence against that person/community then I believe that is a serious problem and there is no excuse for that type of hatred/extreme emotion.
What Mr. Eden should educate himself on is, these people do not need to be threatened. These people already kill themselves or get murdered and at an even higher rate if they are POC (People of Colour), and to threaten them is ruthless.
To use the Bible as his reason of condemnation, is pathetic. If he wants to follow the Bible, he should have probably followed that rule that told him not to shave his beard off as well.(Leviticus 19:27) In terms of man + woman marriage, why doesn’t he mention the fact that more people have filed for divorce in the past 5 years, than ever before? Let’s also talk about the fact of premarital sex XXXXX. (1 Corinthians 6:18-20)
In short, I do agree with the Human Rights Commission that regardless of how we as a “Christian” island feel about this matter, the European Court has already tackled this “problem”. It is only a matter of time that we will begin to be charged and accused of breaking human rights and quite frankly with the FIFA scandal going on, I don’t think we need any more attention.
I hope that there can be a form of compromise against this “issue” and that we won’t have to hear from Bald Headed Eagle Anthony again.
Like … those are the species – WE ARE THE HUMAN SPECIES!
We’re different!
Wow, a lot of anger in this remarks section.. Why so angry ??? Let us live as one or die together in hate… I am a straight woman loving man, I see no reason to not let people love, is that not what God is about??? Loving our brothers and sisters as we would like to be loved ?? I am not a ” bible thumper” either. But I do believe there is a greater power looking down and now shaking his/her head in disbelief.. As the Beatles so eleoquently said… ” ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE” … Good day and God bless us one and all.. Regardless of Who we may love….
And so it goes – history always repeats itself. In this case, “Christians” continue to force their ideas and beliefs onto everyone else just as they did during colonization. I gag every time someone tells me that they are “Christian” like it is something that makes them better than others. I lived in several countries and went to a big international school and the only ones who had to proclaim their religion every 5 minutes and try to force their beliefs onto everyone else were those so called “Christians”. I never experienced this with any Jews, Hindus, Muslims etc.
Also, one is born gay, you don’t just decide this as a life style. If anyone would CHOSE that for themselves, they would be crazy just given all the obstacles and misery homosexuals have to overcome. It is not a disease and it certainly isn’t anything that can be “pushed” onto someone else like one person on the blog suggested.
If one of my children would tell me that they are gay, I would rather them be gay and happy then having to live a pretend life in misery, be on antidepressants and me fearing that they eventually can’t cope any longer……
Giving gays equal rights doesn’t mean that there are parades in town with people carrying on crazy half naked and wrapped in pink feather boas! It gives two people who love each other the right to legally commit to each other if they chose to do so, be on a family health insurance plan, have the same inheritance laws apply to them etc. etc. Why is this such an issue?
Are we all better of pretending it doesn’t exist and continue to push it underground? Do you all really think that if you just don’t agree and don’t accept it homosexuality will be eradicated? It always existed and will continue to exist til the end of time, so you better figure out a good way to cope with it.
And for all of you haters, I hope for your children and/or grandchildren that they are not homosexual because how horrible their lives would be if they have you as their parent or grandparent.
God made both of us.
Not as partners, he didn’t.
First and foremost I would like to say to everyone reading the views of Mr. Eden that this is “not” they way that intelligent Caymanians feel about the subject, in every country you have your good and evil. Mr. Eden XXXX. I don’t expect any better from him but I did expect better from Alva, Shame on you Suckoo, every human being on this planet at some point and time either has, had or will have a gay relative in their family, gays and lesbians are a part of this planet just like the rest of us so let them be. Don’t concern your selves with who someone sleeps with its their lives to live. And like you said “gays and lesbians are evil” who is responsible for the majority of crime in this world surely its not these people you have to look no further that our prison. To summarize Gays and lesbians are here to stay your sister, father, brother the nurse, Lawyer, pastor basketball player, are all gay. XXXX
As a young, heterosexual, Christian Caymanian female I am honestly embarrassed at most of these comments in defense of the hate speech that took place. We tend to cling to the Bible when it is of convenience to us not realising that the Bible was written by men, albeit inspired by The Lord it was still, written by men. When referencing the Bible you must understand the context in which it was written (grandma always said to read two verses before and two verses after to get the full picture). As a Christian, I am called to love my fellow man, not to judge them. Does that mean I will be marching in support of gay marriage? No, but it does mean that I love my fellow brother and sister and while praying for myself (for I am not perfect), I will pray for them as well. the judging should be left up to the Judge and not us for neither one of us is perfect. Come on people… We live on a Christian Island that will throw people in jail for offering bread and water to Cuban immigrants who have spent days upon days on the seas yet there is no uproar about that!
These homophobes and bigots should be thanking the Lord that the Cayman gay population is so benign. It would be easy enough to start an FB page or blog. in order to “out” those guys, who, although they may be married, still enjoy their little homosexual trysts. These guys troll websites like “Grindr”, not to mention their trolling tourist bars for tourists and non-local lovers. As I say, these hypocrites should be happy – more vengeful types could indeed ruin (or free) them.
Why would “homophobes and bigots” be concerned about that? Bring it on!
Er…because they’re the ones being outed. I realize you’re a bit slow, but try to keep up.
Then obviously they would not be “homophobes” but homosexuals. Instead of threatening please go ahead and out them.
I see no issue with polygamy; if a group of consenting adults who are fully aware of the situation agree to partake in it there is no issue.
The only time that “alternative” lifestyles pose an issue is when one party is unaware of what it going on or has been manipulated/forced into the situation.
No polygamy fo me, thanks, anyway. One tribe of in-laws is all I can handle.
Your response had nothing to do with the question posed; let me break it down for you. If you were never exposed to Christianity would this be an issue ? Point being this man made religion with its many varieties has caused more havoc than good; do you really believe that human beings are inherently evil? Consider that most generous people in the world tend to be atheist.
Can someone please give Mr. Eden a Medal! The man is saying what a lot of us wish we were in a position to but can’t because we’re not financially independent. You all know that anyone who speaks up about something controversial is subject to termination by liberal-minded employers who do not share the values and beliefs of traditional Caymanians.
Denying equal rights to another group of human beings based on your religious beliefs is still called bigotry. I am embarrassed to be represented by Mr Eden.
Not jumping into the gay debate as the last time I was left with a sore bottom.
Anyway, what I am curious to know is;
“How do the supporters of gay marriage feel about polygamy?”
Do you also support a man (or woman) having more than one wife or husband? What if me and my 5 consenting girlfriends all decided we wanted to get married – could we count on you for your support?
If not, why?
– Who
I want to know more about your sore bottom.
PLEASE spare us the details.
Yeah, I’m sure you would!
😉
– Who
Good questions,
I grew up in a society that abhored gays. I try to be a bit more tolerant in my old age. I think Whodatis raises valid questions; where do you, or anyone else, draw a line?
Truthseeker
It is not hard to understand “where to draw the line”. The only thing gay people are asking is for the SAME rights that straight people have – the right to the legal benefit of marriage with their partner. How hard is it for you to understand the idea of “equal treatment”?
Can anyone contract a polygamous marriage? No. So there is no problem of equal treatment there. Straight people and gay people alike cannot enter into plural marriages.
If it angers your God that gay people get married, then that is between those people and your God. Are you so important in this Universe that God needs you to manage other people’s lives?
God is perfectly capable of looking after his own laws without your help. The best we can do, since it seems that there is not a consensus on whose God is real or not, is to treat people equally under man’s laws.
No, you are asking for superior rights which trump everyone else’s. That is a major part of the problem.
What superior rights are you talking about? Equality among everyone?
What are the “superior rights” that one group gains over another simply by saying that anyone may marry the one they love, and enjoy the same legal benefits as anyone else?
It is simply seeking the same rights as anyone else. In what way does allowing two people to marry give them “superior rights” over any other two people who marry?
Gays are not asking for any “more” rights than anyone else has. You are the one who seeks to deny them rights you have. That is the definition of inequality.
They should have the equal right to be as miserable in their marriages as anyone else.
And if the law in Cayman is supposed to reflect God’s law, then why is adultery legal? Why is divorce legal? Why are you not trying to pass laws to rid Cayman of the sins of adultery and divorce?
The answer is that it is more important to you to deny legal rights to others than it is for you to stand for “God’s laws”. God’s laws call for stoning adulterers to death. Why are you not calling for that?
It is superior rights because they can then force everyone to participate in the abomination they call a wedding (photographers, wedding cakes etc.) or be fined for “discrimination”. So your freedom to be gay is superior to my freedom of conscience apparently.
The New Testament does not call for anyone to be stoned to death but it makes clear that homosexual behaviour is offensive to God. You are demanding that the state sanction it and say it is a good thing.
“Are you so important in this Universe that God needs you to manage other people’s lives?” Amen. This needs to be on the front of the Compass.
Thats not true, they want more, straight people don’t want to have anything to do with the gays, but then they are suing straight pastors who refuse to marry them, suing straight bakers who refuse to provide their cakes, and recently in one country sued the tv station who refused to air their ad, so right now in seeking your right to be gay, gay people are infringing on the rights of straight people. Religion aside, of all the animals in nature man is the only one to seek to change the natural order! Male and female pairing serves a purpose, it ensures our continuity as a species anything else threatens it!!!
Hi Truthseeker,
As marriage is primarily a religious (therefore Christian in the Cayman Islands / western world) concept, it would seem to make sense that the institution is continued within the parameters evidenced in religious text, stories, parables and such.
Whereas the evidence of polygamy in the Bible can be argued, it is a challenge to find religiously sanctioned man-on-man or woman-on-woman unions therein.
Interestingly, we find clear evidence of slavery in almost all monotheistic literature, with what some regard as scripture in full support of the state of being. However due to moral advancement of western society (or maybe the advents of polyester and “Sweet-n-Low”), we have disregarded those societal concepts.
Personally, I am in full support of equal *”personal” legal rights for everyone, for example, inheritance, power of attorney and health matters for gay couples, however there are other means to bring this about without dredging up these emotions and grabbing of pitchforks.
Faith speaks to the core of a person or community, and many are wired to defend theirs with every fibre of their body. Therefore, it should come as no surprise when we see what is happening right now.
However, that being said, I will NOT allow anyone to tar Cayman with a blanket term of “hateful” people when it is clear to see that people from the “most progressive” parts of the world were initially attracted here by the “warm and friendly” nature of our people. Furthermore, we all have homosexual family members (in fact I know this to be true for more than one of the politicians in this story) and, for the most part, we all get on very well in Cayman.
Unfortunately, today we see many “progressive” people trying to shove their “progress” down the throats of others and deeming them as hateful, ignorant or some type of “phobe” if they do not submit to their demands.
(If my loving but super-Christian grandmother was alive today and branded as such, the offender would have a major problem on their hands – that being me, despite the fact Granny and I would likely hold very different convictions on the matter.)
The point is, who is anyone to tell an 80 year old woman that has lived all of her peaceful days in the love and glory of her Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, that she must reject what has become an integral part of her very essence all to appease some unilateral EU directive by way of the UK, which, by the way, is clearly opposed to being a full EU member country in the first place?
Personally, I believe the battle for gay rights is being fought in an entirely wrong and provocative manner which results in more societal friction than harmony – which makes everyone very “un-gay” indeed. I truly believe these issues do not have to be as perilous as they are but sadly many on either side have drawn the battle plans in such a manner.
To conclude, I believe the traditional concept and definition of marriage should not be aggressively tampered with, for as long as we have 20 year old American college frat kids joining in song that “There’ll never be a nigger at SAE”, we are sure to have deeply religious people that feel the way as some of our 70 year old local politicians in 2015.
I would like to think that none of those kids on that bus would actually “…hang him (aforementioned nigger) from a tree, but he’ll never pledge with me…” nor do I believe that Hon. Eden would ever harm a hair on a gay’s perfectly styled head.
People are people and although we hate to admit it, society has not really changed much in the last 200 years. The key is to listen to and understand one another so we can find alternative means to achieving legal and human equality with as little disturbance to the apple cart as possible.
*I am not in full support of family / adoption / children / fertility manipulation “gay rights” in all circumstances.
**(In answer to my question in my initial post; I would say if we are willing to change the definition of marriage and or introduce laws to support and recognise gay marriage and rights – then it would be impossible to legislate or disallow polygamous marriages and unions in the Cayman Islands. In fact, polygamous gay marriage (e.g. 5-6 gay men and or 5-6 lesbian women separately or unanimously marrying and living under one roof and raising 20-25 kids next door) should also be an expected result.)
“Where do we draw the line?” someone asked.
The answer is, we don’t. There is no more “line”. Everyone will have the right to do as they feel regardless of who is offended.
Welcome to progress.
– Whodatis
so what you are saying is, marriage is a religious based concept that became a law and as such is only between opposite sex. Equal rights in front of the law is not a religious one but a sociopolitical/economic one and can be apply despite of the sexual preferences of the members (aka civil unions) well that has helped me a lot.
Sexual preferences has no grounds, whatsoever to modify the religious believes or religious based concepts that has become a law.
Here is your equality, I wont support that from a gay neither a Muslim or a anarchist, whichever part of the law they want to change. I will support their rights to choose who the live with and take advantage of the assurances that the law provides for anyone else.
Well said Whodatis. Very balanced view.
“As marriage is primarily a religious (therefore Christian in the Cayman Islands / western world) concept…”
Yes, in the Bible, if a man rapes a woman, then it is legal, so long as he pays her father and takes her as a wife. That is Biblical rape-marriage.
Under the law of Cayman, can I take my wife by raping a woman and paying her father? Why do you not follow the Bible law?
In the Bible, the Israelites are allowed to take the women from conquered towns as their wives. That is Biblical war-marriage.
Under the law of Cayman, can the people of West Bay slaughter the men of East End, and take their women as wives? Why do you not follow the Bible law?
In the Bible, when a man marries a woman, he also takes possession of her slaves. That is Biblical slave-marriage.
Under the law of Cayman, why did you free your slaves, and then have racially mixed marriages. That wasn’t even legal in the Christian US until very recently.
In the Bible, if a man dies without issue, then his brother is to impregnate her. That is Biblical inheritance-marriage.
Under the law of Cayman, do you have sex with your brother’s widow? Why do you refuse to follow God’s law?
God’s law establishes all of those forms of Biblical marriage, and more!
The thing is, human law deals with things like inheritance and ownership of property, tax status, etc., about which the Bible says nothing, but which have very real impacts on people’s lives.
Caymanian Banker 10 – Whodatis 0!
Not in my book!
Thank you “Anonymous” – not in my book either.
Apparently some folks seem to believe I am a Bible-thumper that will take great offense to contrary perspectives.
Anyway, I’m tired now, plus there are far more pressing examples of domestt bigotry in modern Cayman that need addressing.
– Who
You see, this is why I deal with the main man himself. I believe in God and in my view I am in his church wherever I go in this land. I do not believe in religion or the churches. I am sick of everyone trying to interpret the bible for their own gains – material or moral – sickening.
All the wars this world has ever experienced comes down to two things: Religion and Politrix. I want no part of either.
Marriage is not a religious concept; tribes that operate outside of organised religion marry. The basis of marriage in the western world was to show ownership. A woman belonged to her father until she was sold via dowry to her husband; who she would now belong to. This is the reason last names change to show who a woman belongs to.
I wish this defenders of marriage actually knew some history instead of religious propoganda.
What on earth has gay marriage got to do with polygamy?
You might just as well ask how supporters of the Dallas Cowboys feel about polygamy.
A very strange line of thought.
You, my friend, like many others have not taken the time to thoroughly analyse the core principles of the issue at hand.
I’ll be here when you’re ready.
– Who
Well said, Who.
It has to do with definition of marriage
To lent my two cents – A good few men got more than one wife now. Or living a lie and cheating whilst married, openly and some not so openly; and some whilst breaking down the church door professing christianity. Why Because no law here supports it. but the white paper supports being gay. Not my choice but its what it is.
To the general haters of gay people.
I am not gay but have friends and family who are. They are human beings like you and I, and while it would not be my choice it is their right and more so since Cayman signed the White Paper. What did we expect, people never read what that meant? They have the right to be with someone of the same sex once of consenting age and now if they want to fight for Civil Union they also have that right.
So many people married and not, we grin up with each day; because we think they are of the so call “normal sexuality” and we don’t know what they get up to behind closed doors. Some do threesomes etc yet we judge a person whom we suspect or know to be gay with just one partner of the same sex, just because they are honest and brave enough to be who they are.
A persons sexual preference is their business as long as they keep it behind closed doors and to a consenting age. As for this crap that gay persons will molest children, I never heard more rubbish in my life. People molest children because they are pedophiles. And not all gays are flamboyant and in your face, just like not all hetrosexual are; they come in all type of personalities. Shy, conservative in your face flirtatious etc.
By all means if they are in your face, hetrosexual or gay its wrong and out fornicating in public let them face consequences of the law. I am so disappointed in Mr. Eden’s hateful bigotry, but then again at least he is honest enough to say how he feel which is more than I can say for most. Many support gays in LA I am sure but are too scared to say it due to fear of how people will perceive them.
Many Caymanians are married and live a “double life” here on island or on their secret trips most will never ever come forth because of the hateful individuals out there. That is a sad fact because they have wife or husbands and children.
I embrace and love any of my family members friends and colleague who are brave and strong enough to accept who they are once they are doing so responsibly. It would not be my choice for them but it is who they are and I respect the choice people make in life its their life not mines. Who am I to judge them? I leave that to the Man Above…and surely a loving God will not hate his people.
Like it or not Cayman, Civil Union will come it is just a matter of time. The Human Rights law will see to it. Stop being bias, live and let live. People you talk to day in and out are gay you just don’t know it. People you work with, your children your siblings your parents grandparents politicians are gay. Worry about their character not their sexuality or reputation because a persons character is who they really are.
If you desire to be so stupid as to want five wives, I say have at it. Do let us know how that works out for you.
What sex are your “girlfriends”?
LOLOL!!
Took a sec but I got it in the end. Good one!
– Who
This sort of non-sence from a former Minister of Health? And not one MLA would stand up to challenge such a pompous show of hate and intolerance!
And for those talking about our Govt. should fight this at the ECHR….whose money do you think they, and their lawyers, are going to use to do so?
I think Eden is not saying that we must hate gays. He is expressing hate of their intentions to change our culture, and redefine laws that would shape familial relations on the island.
It is his belief and trust me, his constituency will vote him back in.
No, we wont vote him back in, not with these nasty views that bring our country and our Legislative Assembly into disrepute.
Excellent comment. Caymanians must assert their core beliefs, particularly so when under attack by those who hate them and are intolerant of them.
you talking about the core belief to sweep everything under the rug?
No no.. he clearly hates gays… and threatened them with violence if they ever got near him or his family. I don’t think there is much doubt of his hatred.
I did not read any threat of violence in this speech, and I am sure he was talking about more than “getting near”.
FYI: I’m a Caymanian and a voter. And It seems clear by Eden’s tone and words that he is inciting hate and intolerance. He certainly does not come across as promoting tolerance even, much less love. To me, and by the number of comments on here it appears many more agree also, he sounds very hateful!
Why not come visit the Cayman Islands? You could learn a lot about another culture, and develop some tolerance towards perspectives other than your own at the same time.
There is no culture, unless you are referring to eating endangered animals, homophobia and rampant corruption.
I have no problems with gays. And I am a caymanian. I even have a cousin who is gay (GUY). I was told his european man left him Millions of euros the other day and he living the life in south America! But, if they keep it to themselves and not press it on me or my kids, then fine…………
And I believe in god and the holy trinity- we all will have to answer someday…I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman- but, nowadays, it has become a financial certificate/contract instead of a marriage one? All of the gays are fighting for their rights to marry- I prefer and many more caymanian men are becoming like me, to remain divorced and single- too much stress and expense! But that is just me……..why do I have to marry a foreign woman- just to satisfy immigration and the laws? Oh well, I have a girlfriend and she is on work permit- there is ways and means around them…..
They want to be able to have the same rights as married couples (male and female) do, don’t you understand???
But that is not possible, because the big difference between a male and female couple and a gay couple, is that the gay couple can’t have children! So how can you give them the same rights like a male and female couple beats me??? 🙂
So infertile couples shouldn’t be allowed to marry?
So you mean that only people who can have children are allowed to marry? So the elderly can’t marry? People who are not capable of children due to medical reasons are not allowed to marry? People who simply do not want kids are not allowed to marry? I’m sorry.. you are not making sense.
So before any two people can marry, we must first test whether they can have children.
There is no reason for infertile straight people to marry or to have sex. And if any man or woman is rendered surgically unable to have children, then they should also immediately be divorced, so that there is no longer the abomination of married people who cannot have children.
Agreed. And, hatas@hotmail, how can a couple know if they’re fertile until after marriage anyway? After all, as Christians they remain chaste until after the vows are said.
“how can a couple know if they’re fertile until after marriage anyway”
I realize the education system down there is not the best, but are people really that ignorant?
If you have had surgical treatment for a number of different conditions (e.g. testicular cancer), then you don’t have to be married to know you aren’t going to have any children. Go look up things like “ovarian cyst” or “pyometria”. People can be rendered infertile – and certainly know it – by a large range of congenital conditions, infections, hormonal issues, etc..
But if the point is to prevent marriage by people who cannot have children, then surely you should fertility test people before they get married, or God will get into a snit over it.
This is the most stupid thing you are saying. And what about all those children abandoned on institutions because theirs straight parents didn’t want them??? There a lot of gay couples that want to adopt and give those kids a better life. How someone can be against it? So much intolerance and disrespect in this world.
And I would expect you to not press your heterosexuality on my kids
What a telling comment…
It is so sad to see what is happening to our Island wait; not only our Island but around the World. God had a plan when he created Adam and Eve. It was in his good deed not for man to be alone but to be accompanied by a woman who was Eve. If God wanted he could have created Adam and who the hell you want to give a name to or Eve and so on….but he didn’t. I agreed with Mr. Eden, it is EVIL and FLIPPEN DISGUSTING. I frankly don’t care what others think about but I agreed it should be banded.
Yes, it should be banded.
Absolutely banded. Wedding banded!
Why did god make gays then?
He didnt make gays he made “man and woman” and gave them freewill and they abused it!
If everything happens through the will of God, then don’t you suppose this might be a part of that plan?
I mean christ, if he doesn’t like the laws he can change them at any time. He is God don’t ya know.
We get it. It should be banded.
That bruise you have from flapping your mouth? Banded.
Here’s a real question, without slavery and colonisation would Christianity be so wide spread? These beliefs that you hold so dear were beaten into your ancestors and you turn around and indoctrinate innocent children before they can form their own ideas. Now that is criminal.
I form my ideas from logic and reason, and then I became a Christian. I don’t see a loving God making a man for a man or a woman for a woman. Just look what’s between the legs. Common sense and nature tells you that.
And yes… I am being as respectful and loving to you. I am not forcing anything on you. I am merely telling you how nature is!
Check “nature” again my friend. Nature is full of all kinds of species that practice gay sex. The nature argument doesn’t hold any weight at all. Common sense isn’t so common. Do your research before you bring in such antiquated arguments that are not supported by any facts.
Human beings are superior to all other “species”. FACT. So, try another angle dear. I will not be following what a donkey does and think it’s ok.
Dear Hatas,
Can you not promote your heterosexual lifestyle on me? I’m trying to remain like pristine glass, untouched by your dirt-made body.
I got my dogs ballls cut off and now he bonks anything with a heartbeat. How do you explain that according to God because afterall he created him too?
I am not taking any sides – but just wondering how many of the posters on here came into this world from sex between two men or two women…
Perhaps. The more pertinent question however is how many of them actually know who deh daddy is?
You lied…hopefully with the opposite sex.
What does that have to do with who people choose to love? Marriage has nothing to do with procreation.
Huh????? That is the main purpose of marriage you idiot.
The main purpose of marriage is the preservation of property rights
Ummm…for the man it would be to lose your property rights dumbass.
Read a bit of history – women getting a share of the marital assets is a very recent thing. The husband got everything, including the children. The woman got nothing. If a woman with property married, all her property became her husbands and he kept it if they divorced or separated. That’s why it was so important to have sons, to keep property in the family.
Being gay and religious is a conflict of interests unless you follow a religion that doesn’t use the bible, because last time I check the KJV and the NIV doesn’t support it. I thought this was a Christian island? And I guess the bible soon be thrown out of the court/law system….unless they follow a different book. Since we will soon ignore the bible…I vote for a brothel!
Actually I’d much prefer a sistrel.
Dear Mr. Eden,
If your sooo concerned about ‘man with women marriages’ why did you let Dart build a Gay hotel on SMB, and then take away Seven Mile Beach from the people whose morals you are protecting to do it.
I would bitch about double standards, but obviously Dart has enough money to buy yours.. SMH LOL
P.S.
Link bellow for your education Sir, please share with the Planning Board they may not know how you feel 😉
http://purpleroofs.com/gay-travel-blog/2013/07/cayman-islands-to-get-gay-friendly-hotel.html
And so ???
It’s a hotel. Anyone can stay there. Including gays. Just Neanderthal thinking would twist that.
There are many gay people in the cayman islands that the CIG is doing business with. Some of them is what is called in the “closet”. You would be surprised on who they are. Better get the paddles if Anthony Eden or Suckoo finds out who they really are.
…….and this sums up in a nutshell why I refuse to drag myself or any of my family members to church!!! I would much rather there be happy same gender marriages than these rotten to the core “traditional” marriages that are rampant on Island where spouses are cheating on each other or being physically and emotionally abusive towards each other. Oh wait! We don’t really believe in that tradition anymore either because nowadays they don’t even bother to get married – they just breed their offspring and leave them for everyone else to raise. That’s the “Christian” society you have here on Island.
Has it occur to you that these socalled “rotten to the core traditional marriages” you bash so much, is why you are here?!
Unless you drop out from the sky!
Tragic ignorance and unwelcome hate. But of course this is what religions are so good at: Getting decent people to think and behave in indecent ways.
I can’t believe not one MLA has came forward to immediately condemn this rant. Says everything we need to know about their intelligence/compassion/courage.
I wonder if the fundamentalist Christians who feel this way about gays ever pause to recognize that they are perfectly aligned with ISIS and the Taliban on this issue. Scary when you think about it. The only thing keeping this type of Christian from executing gays is secular morality and western law.
The deeper problem no one wants to tackle here is that these loons are correct in the sense that the Bible really does support/demand such wickedness and evil. It’s all right there to be read in black and white. Try actually reading the Bible if you happen to be one who believes the ridiculous claim that the Bible is a pure source of love and morality. It is in reality a source of good stuff and bad stuff, fuel for both the abolitionist and the slaveholder, the warrior and the pacifist. One can easily back up Anthony Eden’s hate and ignorance with directly relevant Bible quotes, just as one can use the Bible to back up those Christians who prefer love and compassion for fellow humans.
This contradictory free-for-all is what we get when a belief system is based on fantasy and nonsense. Anything goes. I just wish more Christians would choose the love route over the hate route. It would make for a better world.
Amazing comment, I wish I could like this 1000 times.
Hence the problem is not with the book. It’s the people who interpret it. Once Christianity use to be solely Catholic, but in the 1500’s certain men broke from her with the doctrine that “Bible alone” is the way to go. Hence every Protestant became their own Pope with absurd teachings from the Bible … a lot spewing hate.
Oh, so the Roman Catholic church condones gay marriage? That would explain a lot.
Factually incorrect – Christianity did not cease becoming a single religion 1) Christianity predates the establishment of an organised religion – and was free for anyone to interpret as they saw fit without a Pope or any other central authority 2) the Orthodox Church split from what became the Catholic Church in 1054 – well predating Protestantism, and incidentally I am sure you will find the Orthodox Church believes that it, and not the Catholic Church, is the true religion. Passing lightly over whether the Catholic Church itself can be claimed to be entirely free from spewing hate or absurdist teachings, of course.
Why don’t you go read an actual history book about the church since you obviously have no idea. Did you really think it was Protestants who prosecuted the Spanish Inquisition? Or murdered hundreds of thousands of the Albigensians? Ever heard of Bloody Mary? Don’t be ridiculous.
On an issue in which all Christians should be speaking with a united voice there you go introducing denominational division which serves only to weaken our voice. Really stupid. And factually incorrect as well.
lol … I don’t know about the fantasy and nonsense part. Are you sure its all fantasy, or your just wishful thinking? 🙂
Actually, your “unbelief” regarding “not one MLA etc” speaks volumes about your own ignorance about Caymanian society and the traditional values it holds dear. You seem to hate these values, and presumably Caymanian society as a whole. Maybe you should visit the Cayman Islands before any future rants of your own? You could learn a lot. And your perspectives on societies other than your own could grow some. It’s a big world out there.
How bizarre. When one makes a comment in support of fairness and reason, someone inevitably replies that the person doesn’t understand Cayman and should visit to learn about the culture. Sorry to burst your bubble but some Caymanians are fully capable of thinking clearly and positioning themselves on the right side of history. For you to assume that those of us who are against hate and irrational belief must be foreigners shows how little you know about our culture.
Minister Panton, care to comment?
Women tend to have the upper hand down at the court house- almost always in divorce. I wonder how the judges going to look at two men divorcing?
Why the one that bears the children gets the house, of course.
215 comments. WOW Anthony. Mckeewa is going to sue you for getting more attention than him.
Eden … warned that the next step would be bestiality, as “people demanded the right to make love to their animals”. – He really has a warped sense of this world.
In my village we only marry a dog or goat so we can pass on an evil spell.
No he doesn’t. What he didn’t say is that the preponderance of animals in Cayman is a cause for concern. If laws are soon not enacted to prevent especially dogs from roaming our beaches whether on a leash or not or freely roaming, then we will soon be classified instead of the best beach in the world to the one with the most $h17.
Hell that beast the udp’s been screwing us for years now.
Yes, that comment really shows how deviant he is for going there.
Marriage is the leading cause of divorce. Everyone should be allowed to do it.
dah … smh … because the definition of marriage has always been between a male and a female for hundreds of years.
And West Bay road was the only way to west bay for 100s of years, and despite the bitching, ETH arrived and….everyone liked it! Apart from the 4.
Marriage is certainly a wonderful institution.
Shame there isn”t more of it going on between men and women.
Then there wouldn”t be so many babies bought up by single women and teenagers.
Maybe this is where we should be focusing our attention.
That tie is evil…
You find as you look around the world that every single bit of progress in humane feeling, every improvement in the criminal law, every step toward the diminution of war, every step toward better treatment of the colored races, or every mitigation of slavery, every moral progress that there has been in the world, has been consistently opposed by the organized churches of the world. I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. – Bertrand Russell
For a Christian, he sure knows how to judge his fellow man….
“Judge not…” does not mean what you think it means.
The human race is about to, see who/what truly has power, and how much freedom we REALLY have. In addition discover that what we’ve been taught from the beginning to be true, may just be that of the opposite. Morals and standards will be amended to align with that of those who govern financial safety and security. We are blind to obvious contradictions in what is known as “the law”.
Well said 9:51. Wonder if people realize how deep the rabbit hole goes. Truth is very hard to come by these days. On another note, they DO need to legalize the union of gays because it is a basic right. God does not take away your freedom of choice! Tell that to the church folk who are so heavily against this. People will account for their own souls in the end so what is the real issue? FEAR.
Hombre…the UK’s Lords and Peers and “well to do” were generally raised in boarding schools where the prefects buggered the juniors, and as those juniors grew to be prefects they generally did the same, been going on for centuries. Didnt seem to do them much harm. Except for the mental trauma of course. Stiff upper lip and all that.Acquaintances tell me the Girls schools were similar.
Not everyone went to Stowe
Of course we expect the party line to be towed by the traditional spineless party-centric vermin of the house, but very disappointed that Roy, Winston, and Tara – the flippin’ education minister – voted the wrong way on this and said nothing! What a shame.
They didnt vote because of fear, and we really do not need Leaders who are scared to address the issues at hand.
The most depressing thing about this story is that there has been no criticism of Eden’s comments from any of Cayman’s so-called leaders. Alden, McKeeva, Julianna, the Governor … do we assume that they all agree with his statements?
Presumably there is some provision for an MLA to be removed from office if he brings the legislature into disrepute?
Or removed from office because they are senile or mentally unfit? Eg. “man-boy love and crushing a baby’s skull and sucking out their brains”.
Mr Anthony Eden MLA a voice of decency in a time of Sodomy & debauchery.
Alva and Anthony need to go!!! This isn’t what we want representing our country….
I wonder if the three gentlemen use any Apple products (phones, iPad, apple TV) as the apple CEO is openly gay
Are you serious? Blimey, I’m handing in my Apple stuff tomorrow. Thanks for the intel. sportsfan.