Discrimination against gay couples wrong, admits premier
Premier Alden McLaughlin and Tammi Sulliman on the Panel
(CNS): The Cayman Islands premier has admitted that it is wrong for government to discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. Regardless of the political fallout, Alden McLaughlin has said it is the right thing to do to amend the immigration legislation to accommodate the dependents of those in same-sex partnerships. However, there seems to be no sign of McLaughlin moving towards a law for same-sex unions or for locals in gay relationships to have the same financial rights as married couples.
Speaking on Cayman 27’s talk show last week about an issue that is polarising the local community, McLaughlin said while marriage is defined in law here as between a man and a woman, Cayman’s own constitution prevents government from discriminating against people on the grounds of sexual orientation and how government treats gay partnerships has to be addressed.
“Discrimination is wrong in any form,” he said, as he pointed to past ills in society where gender, race and religion have been used to discriminate against groups in society. He said his government should not discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation any more than against women or blacks.
Section 16 of the Bill of Rights says government shall not treat any person in a discriminatory manner, and although it does not specifically list sexual orientation, the words “other status” have been interpreted in international courts as covering that issue and all members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community.
McLaughlin explained that the issue that must be tackled was not the introduction of gay marriage in Cayman but how the government treated same-sex partners compared to heterosexual couples. He said that the matter of same-sex marriage may be addressed in Cayman one day but appeared to suggest that it would be many years in the future.
Well aware of how the issue sits with Christian voters, it is clear the premier will not be going much further than addressing the immigration laws due to the imminent risk of government losing the legal action expected to be brought by lawyers, Dr Leo Raznovich and his husband, over the discrimination they have suffered since the professor lost his position at the law school.
The matter, however, has had a major impact on the PPM as founding member and , Anthony Eden, crossed the floor at the last meeting of the Legislative Assembly in protest over the government’s plans to address the immigration laws.
As a close friend of the veteran politician, the premier said he “was deeply saddened” by his decision to leave. However, Eden is a fundamentalist Christian, McLaughlin noted, and although he thought Eden understood and agreed with the approach the Progressives were going to take over the dependents question, it was not something he was able to accept happening so soon.
McLaughlin described Eden as an “outstanding man” and that while people had accused him of being filled with hate, that was not true but as a fundamentalist Christian he feels strongly on the issue.
However, the premier had less praise or concern over Alva Suckoo’s departure. While the novice backbencher left claiming that the same-sex question had also influenced his decision, he has admitted it was for wider reasons as well.
McLaughlin said that if it was about the election, he had made a mistake as he had won his seat by the very narrow margin of 46 votes.
“Without the party he had no chance of winning,” he said.
The premier said he believed that, since Eden is not planning to run in 2017, two of the news seats in Bodden Town were now wide open. With considerable interest among the party membership in the Bodden Town area to run on the PPM ticket, McLaughlin was confident that he will be fielding new candidates that can carry a district that in previous elections has been a critical to securing government.
Category: Politics
Alden is such the typical politician..whilst I don’t disagree with him, this is simply lip service in order to get re-elected. He is spineless, and will say and do anything to assure him a seat in the next election.
I have three quotes that ALL MLAs and people of the Cayman Islands should adhere:
1. “God Does Not Roll Dice”. Albert Einstein
2. “Hate: It has caused a lot of problems in this world, but it has not solve one yet”. Maya Angelou.
3. “When you judge somebody it doesn’t define who they are; it defines who you are”. Anonymous.
Cayman must grow with the times.
You do realize that the Einstein quote was a reference to his incorrect rejection of quantum mechanics don’t you? You are using it completely out of context, especially if you are trying to imply some theological element to his statement.
The misuse of the quote is a good example of how the internet allows stupid people to convince themselves they are speaking with authority.
Is it true that our courts recently allowed an Arabian man to claim his multiple wives here in Cayman? Why was that so low – key?
A precedent was set right there. “In a trust case dealing with inheritance rights by the financial division of the Grand Court last year, Justice Peter Creswell found that the polygamist marriage in question was recognized in Cayman law, even though polygamy is illegal here, because the marriage was legitimate in the country of origin of the family involved.”
Yess. But there is lots of other Reverse Discrimination in Cayman – eg.. when the immigration law was rightfully changed to allow a child to take the nationality of the mother instead of the father, that did not fix the problem, but simply reversed it.
Now the father has to fight for his child to be recognised as a Caymanian – even if his name is on the birth certificate.
And…what of the glaring loophole of overseas kids of relatives who are suddenly claimed or “adopted” by new status holders – after the fact?
If the kids were not on the original status application, then they should have to go through the usual process, not be slipped in following some overseas “adoption” process.
Mr. Premier, I applaud your courageous stance in such a historically conservative island such as Cayman. However, Tammi Sulliman on the Panel also asked whether Cayman would soon have to address, not just discrimination, but the actual issue of Same Sex Unions (marriage). Your answer was, “We may well … and I will probably be well gone from the scene by then.”
Honestly, it doesn’t seem like the issue is that far away. I think it would good to remind ourselves in Cayman that if we do not comply with the UK’s request for Same-Sex equality within Unions/Marriage, Cayman will be dealing with the much bigger ultimatum of compliance or going independent. I truly believe Cayman should just face the issue right now, no more putting it off, and comply with this request. Otherwise, I think it would be very accurate to say, we can soon anticipate Same Sex Unions will be enforced quite shortly by the UK/EU as the law of the land in the Cayman Islands.
Caymanian
Before we consider what the UK desires or demands of us, we should focus on the desires of those in our gay community.
In fact, the next time I see my lesbian cousin I will ask her for her thoughts on the issue.
If our gay Caymanians consider the absence of gay marriage problematic or unfair, then I am open to a discussion regarding the amendment of our legislation.
However, if it is discovered that there is no issue for the local community, gay or otherwise, and the UK insists on forcing us to make the change or “go independent” – I believe that speaks more to the UK’s fundamentalist mindset.
Personally, I find it not only deplorable but destabilising the way the issue of gay marriage is being forcefully transplanted all over the world with an automatic brand of “backwards” or “homophobic” onto entire nations if they “fail to comply”.
(Side-note: The situation is even more absurd where we see age old prejudices and discrimination based on race, class, colour and gender still at the forefront but largely ignored by the same countries / entities that are pushing the issue of gay marriage.)
Homosexuality is an extremely sensitive issue for many cultures, in fact for the MAJORITY of the people in the world when one examines statistically. Therefore, for the opposing attitude of a minority of the world’s citizens to be imposed on the majority is a recipe for disaster.
*Btw, do not kid yourself and believe that the true puppet masters behind the curtain are unaware of the above.
– Whodatis
Well said -Whodatis
I have to agree with you. Alot of the comments on here are bandwaggon jumpers – adding fuel to a fire that is really not theirs to burn.
I agree that for this topic to have any credence, the Caymanian same-sex community should be the ones championing for the cause and really no one else. If they are ok with the status quo…then this conversation is fruitless. At the end of the day those that are trying to have our laws changed to suit them for a mere few years, will up and leave our shores. They have no intention of staying here.
Other discriminatory issues were present from time and memorial and still remain present in our community that has not been given this attention or any attention at all. I agree with the Premier that discrimination is wrong, but sir you have tilted the scale in favour of one couple and a myriad of other things that have been on the burner in relation discrimination prior to has never been addressed
I am a gay Caymanian and I am married ‘legally’ in another country. This does not affect the ‘Christian’ community in any way in Cayman. I would like my partner to have the same ‘legal’ rights that any other married person has i.e. extension of health care, right to visit in hospital, rights to make a decision if need be, rights to property and/or assets that I own and vise versa.
Yah, sure you are poster.
Anyway, thank you for proving my point of many simply using this issue to agitate Cayman society – among many others.
Get a life. Seriously.
– Who
It is ironic that a man-child who spends his life trolling is telling someone else to get a life.
“Discrimination is wrong in any form,” he said, as he pointed to past ills in society where gender, race and religion have been used to discriminate against groups in society. He said his government should not discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation any more than against women or blacks.”
Alden, should we then award points for nationality on residence applications?
@11:03am couldn’t have said it better. That TBLS institution and faculty is one of the leading government departments practicing discrimination at best. Discrimination in Cayman is way beyound this same-sex topic and for far too long it’s pushed under the rug. Funny how this all started from their actions. Whilst the government is busy reshaping I hope this is the year they look at that school too. Is there such a thing as an eternal contract for a post? Is the school growing in the 21st century like other law schools? What about succession planning? Why are they no caymanian lecturers there even though we have applied? Why does the deputy governor fail to act upon any reports and complaints about the school? Are they not civil servants too? Mr. Premier you have a lot to clean up.
I’m very disappointed in the quality of reader comments on this article.
36 comments and not one mention of ‘Adam and Steve’ or even any Freudian reference to gay sex being ‘rammed down our throats’
Come on chaps, you’re better than this. Where’s the usual bile, invective and bigotry that we’ve come to expect?
No, but there was the “I wanna marry 6 chicks” one.
The cave dwellers choked on their turtle stew reading the headline and have been distracted from posting their usual high quality argumentation.
Maybe they are just a little bit more subtle this time around …
Recent case one foreign born parent been here over 25 years with born Caymanian child having to leave these shores with no right or got to wait for the intervention of some Minister or some high official to remedy the situation and being told that’s the law, yet we have some Jodie come lately with his sexual orientations issue being sort instantly to please Who???
It is time we start deporting these problems eeeh? You don’t like the way we do things here go home!. Instead or idiotic leadership catering and pandering to their own immoral habits and conduct.
There are hundreds if not thousands of gay Caymanians, where do you propose to send all your fellow countrymen / women? Perhaps we should just build a community for them in East End like Castro did for all the people infected with HIV / Aids in Cuba? Moron.
We also have our own criminals, that doesn’t mean we should import criminals too.
What really concerns me is why it took the present and all other premier and leaders of government business until now to talk about discrimination in relation to the immigration law. I know of many Caymanians as well as expats (non homosexuals) couples living together without being married and no change of the law wash done to accommodate them. I know one particular couple who went ahead and got married before they were ready to to avoid one of them having to leave because of their contract not being renewed. This Premier and many in the public domain know exactly why the law is being changed now. Anyone ever heard the saying, “scratch my back and I will scratch yours”
You all may be surprised to the scratch my back and I will scratch yours doing, to see who is doing the scratching or being scratched. Its not that hard Cayman, poli-tricks you all know who they are.
So discrimination as to political rights between Caymanians based on national origin is wrong too then?
We can’t even get our seamen benefits sorted and here our dear leader is sorting and amending laws to give others rights and privileges WoW! for love of country my ras PPM going down!!!! Fixing up a certain church and having pow wows at district HQ can’t help unaaah bunch of hypocrites ya hear
You shouldnt mention seamen when talking about this article .
Thanks for admitting it Alden. Lets now try to move Cayman forward by making the needed changes…for all…including for local same sex relationships…AKA civil unions.
I want to have 6 wives but yet your government won’t allow me to marry each of them. Isn’t this also discrimination against my religion?
You should be locked up in an asylum for your our good.
I agree with you. I want 365 wives. I hope the Premier amend the Immigration Law to allow me to have them as well. Oh, there’s a good reason why that can’t happen. I am Caymanian……a real born and bread Caymanian.
A “bread” Caymanian ……… I dough not know
“born and bread”? Really? How strange. What sort? Sliced? Wholewheat? Or with nuts and annoying bits?
It’s the nuts one isn’t it?
You want 365 wives? You must not be Caymanian. A true Caymanian wants 1 wife and 364 mistresses. #WeareChristians….
You probably can’t please 1 wife, much less 365; one for each day of the year?!
I toast you sir! Bread Caymanian!
Convincing statement 10:47, you left me in no doubt you are a “real born” product of the Cayman school system ?
Oh dear lord! Why on earth would you want to do a silly thing like that? One wife is difficult enough ?
What do you mean “admits”?
This is what happens when press gets an agenda.
Dear CNS: whenever you are approving posts written by obviously gay people, please censor the word ‘bigot’ (it’s defamatory), and ‘intollerant’ (it’s inflammatory). Please also put a block on the word ‘homophobic’ – it’s a direct attack on straight people that could be classified as the new “N-Word”. As per your Comment Policy, all of those words should be considered ‘hate words’ which are aimed at people who have sexual intercourse as nature intended. We have rights also and do not appreciate the tendency to censor our straight-edged commentary.
Bigot, intolerant and homophobic are no more “ban-worthy” than the words you probably use to describe committed gay couples: sick, twisted, unnatural, unholy.
As a matter of fact, I rarely use any of those words. My descriptives would definitely be censored.
5:44 I’m the person who posted the comment describing Eden as an ‘ignorant bigot’. As a happily married hetrosexual I resent your suggestion that anyone who disagrees with his homophobic rants is gay – in fact that comment just serves to demonstrate how messed up all you religious fanatics are.
@4:46 Automatically labelling people who disagree with you gay is just a defence mechanism that substitutes for real arguments. Again I’m in a happy hetrosexual relationship and whilst I personally find a lot of the antics of the LGBT community mildly offensive it’s their lifestyle. As long as they don’t impact mine they can get on with it.
What really bothers me is when religious fanatics use works like the Bible, the Qur’an or the Torah to try and impose their beliefs on others. What specifically worries me here is that there’s always a nagging suspicion that these holier-than-thou characters are not actually taking the moral high ground for the benefit of others but to cover their own issues.
We all know that hidden within the community here are serious problems of spousal abuse and child abuse that good church-going people don’t discuss. These same people also avoid other subjects that are a bit too close to home like marital infidelity. Basically, what it seems to boil down to is that on these islands two consenting adults cannot enter into a same-sex relationship but as long as you go to church on Sundays it’s quite OK to beat your wife, sexually abuse your children and keep one or more mistresses.
I’m not sure if you noticed, but there was absolutely no mention of religion whatsoever. You don’t have to be religious to know right from wrong or what’s acceptable behavior and what’s not.
Get your panty out of your backside, stop absorbing too much American TV, and learn to think for yourself.
10.26-you have a right to express a view, as do I, and if I see bigoted, homophobic views I will call them just that. You want normal people censored so you homophobic bigots can rule the roost? Hitler and Stalin started like that-Trump is heading that way too.
Where are the 500 comments I have been looking forward to laughing at? What am I supposed to do tonight CNS? I cancelled all my plans in anticipation 🙁
Yup, the Constitution that Alden and the PPM fought for contradicts basic human rights! Go figure. Well, you deal with the repercussions Mr. Premier, you brought this on yourself!
Looks like many amendments to come for the 2009 Constitution. It needs to be seriously revised!
Just a minute Ms Collins who sits on the HR commission and may have even been its chair at some point also worked on that constitution and defended it, so I am not sure where you are going with this.
I fully understand now that the fall out between the Premier and Mr. Suckoo runs much deeper than gay marriage or changing the immigration law. In my opinion Mr, Eden took a much stronger stand than Mr. Suckoo yet he seem to be more understanding towards Mr. Eden than Mr. Suckoo.
With that kind of discriminating attitude that no doubt Mr. Suckoo must have endured from the Premier it is a wonder that he lasted with them as long as he did. I would suggest to the Premier that instead of speculating about Mr. Suckoo’s chance of being elected in the next election, he should worry about himself. If it is in God’s plan for him to be reelected it will happen and there is very little that Alden,McLaughlin can do about that. Mr Suckoo you continue to trust in God, no weapons formed against you will prosper.
Let’s cancel the next election and let God decide.
Hey Alden, What about discrimination against Caymanians, you know, the very people who elected you to protect and represent and commit to the best interests of? Discrimination against Caymanians is the most prevalent, bold, clearly visible and nasty of all on this topic, by Caymanians and Non Caymanians alike. Please let us have your view on this.
Please don’t confuse discrimination against lazy, disrespectful, and self centered people and discrimination against all Caymanians.
Yes its wrong but we still gwan do it because we still have yet to figga out how.
What a waste of taxpayers money. Can’t do their job without bringing the bible into everything!
“Discrimination is wrong in any form,” is an interesting quote from the leader of a government whose main issue relate to a work permitting system that is inherently discriminatory against non-Caymanians. I suppose “national origin” isn’t among the standard list of race, gender, age, religious orientation and sexual orientation. But “any form”? Interesting how some things aren’t seen as discrimination…
Is there a country on Earth that allows anyone to come in legally and work? no restrictions? no questions asked? What planet are you from?
Within the EU it pretty much works that way. Hasn’t done anyone any harm.
OK, finally, so discrimination is wrong! Welcome to the 21st Century! Now we have that admission then a whole can of other worms will open up, including immigration and work permits and the so called “release” letters-all discriminatory. And having admitted that discrimination is wrong, either this or the next government will have to allow gay marriage-why?- because not to do so would be discriminatory…
I am a Caymanian. It has never occurred to me that I could go to the US on a work permit and then demand to have equal rights to US citizens of that country in the work force or otherwise. My permit there would be restricted. That makes perfect sense to me and is not discriminatory. Human rights extends to freedom of speech (to a degree) etc but never to the same rights as those of the country (ie you cant vote etc). It certainly doesn’t entitle you to work here whether or not a Caymanian applies for the job. Perhaps it is useful to get that facts straight. You need to re-examine the meaning of discrimination in the context of immigration because you have been mislead. This is true not just for Cayman – perhaps you need to travel more.
classic alden spineless double speak…..
of course the ppm will do nothing…its what they do best….
The priorities of the PPM are messed up. Alden is more concerned with pleasing all others beside helping Caymanians
Even gay Caymanians? He can do both at the same time.
Alden, you salt in 2017 Bobo.
Thank you! I hope the director et al of the law school read this a few times and process it. I wonder when that contract will be looked at that?! Then again…
Looks like the new Immigration discrimination bill will soon be coming, and next would be the politicians discrimination bill .
Interesting description of Eden as a ‘fundamentalist.’ That’s not exactly a compliment is it? Rather it puts him the same category as throwbacks like Christians who try to stop the teaching of evolution in schools and Muslims who oppose the education of women.
Why not spit it out Alden and say what most people have already realised – this man is an ignorant bigot who is not fit to set foot on the floor of the LA.
LOLOL!!
Ah boy, Alden…you kill me on the regular!
Yes, agreed, discrimination against gays is wrong.
However, what about the blatant and ongoing discrimination against the very people to whom you owe your prominence in the country??
In case you haven’t figured it out as yet, I am referring to Caymanians.
Honestly, Cayman is now officially a carbon copy of trendy western ideals. We see a leapfrog over forms of prejudice and discrimination that have existed from the very foundation of the west, and in its place a focus on all of the “new blacks” instead.
(Please, if you don’t get it then kindly ignore. Hint: Tamir Rice and Walter Scott were not in my consideration when I penned the above.)
The essence of the ongoing gay marriage debate in the world today is that each country and community must be allowed to express and accommodate homosexuality on their own terms – within reason of course. Also, I wish to remind the room that contrary to popular (western) belief no group, race, country, region or creed owns the monopoly on some phantom manual of acceptable human behaviour. Yes, the shaming tactic we are witnessing carries a back-pocketed joker card “win” for the countries / powers behind the movement – however that aspect is widely ignored for obvious reasons. (Nevertheless, like everywhere else, we see it playing out right here in Cayman.)
Granted, at this time the usual retorts will be forwarded, however there are many examples of far more menacing forces in the world that go unchecked,
(E.g. The Roman Catholic Church still exists as a wealthy and powerful religious institution even though coincidentally it is effectively a global network of child sex abusers.) Am I wrong?
(E.g. 2: The mindbogglingly hypocritical blatant and violent levels of state-sponsored racism in Israel – that the rest of the world pretends to not see.)
Anyway, as I have said on numerous occasions, had there been a cry for equal treatment or clams of discrimination from our own beloved gay Caymanian friends and family members in relation to marriage rights, I would have very little to say on the matter. (I would endorse the same spirit of resistance to British and EU nationals when outsiders demand for their governments to implement and make accommodations for Sharia law / religious courts as an example. Call me crazy, but I like to travel and experience different cultures and customs, and as a Black male, that has not always been a welcoming experience. However, I accept it for what it is and keep it moving.
Returning to the issue at hand, from the outset I championed the introduction of civil partnerships whereby any person could appoint another as their legal partner as a compromise. Although such legal partnerships are now creating new challenges of their own as they carry the risk of creating an imbalanced granting of rights and powers when compared to traditional legal relationships, but I digress.
However, the fact that (yet again) outsiders have elected to impose their alleged grievances on our society, yelled “jump”, and our elected government has responded with a “how high?” is not a good look. Primarily because it undermines the value and importance of Caymanians in their own country … yet again.
Rest assured, this is the element of the issue that MANY in our midsts are most excited about.
– Whodatis
Nothing??
Come on … you guys are slippin’ big time.
Troll votes won’t cut it ya know, lol!
– Who
😉
No, we are just sick of you know WHO.
Actually, it is “Who”, not the World Health Organisation.
– Who
Alden, whilst I wouldn’t get into whether same sex partners are right or wrong, I am curious about the constitution which you championed and advocated and horse traded on. The constitution specifically addresses marriage between man and woman etc…This was done with the specific intention to thwart any ideas of same sex unions or marriage.
If you felt this way all along, why bother. Why not have the honest conversation with the public at the start and said how you felt. I find that concerning but not surprising.