In support of the Turtle Farm
David Miller writes: We constantly hear that the Cayman Turtle Farm is barbaric, against the environment, evil, stupid, costs too much, etc, etc, but one would agree that in the past people near the coast caught turtles and ate them all over the world. Turtles have existed for hundreds of millions of years. They existed in the worst catastrophe in the past that wiped out the dinosaurs.
We are not taking turtles from the sea. We have a farm. We have scientists that have been studying green sea turtles since the sixties. Archie Carr was the scientist along with investors who moved his idea to the Cayman Islands. He probably did so because of the steady temperature for breeding — 82 degrees. Later they would create a different diet. Now we have had a breakthrough.
We were promised that if the Turtle Farm could create the first generation in the farm we could expand it and sell turtle shell, leather, oil and meat. CITES claimed that we would have to create the second generation of turtles in the farm before we would be allowed to sell from the farm.
If the farm could sell the products that they throw away in the dump, it could be self-sufficient.
Along comes environmentalists. They conclude the turtle that is being farmed is grossly abusive, evil, barbaric, etc. But cows and other livestock animals are not? A cow produces one calf per year and needs three acres of land. How come no one is calling that abusive? I could call my cows and they would come to me like a dog. Try that with a turtle. A cow has teats and her calf drinks milk like a baby. If you separate them, they bawl for each other, not a turtle. Who is the uncivilised one?
We need the Turtle Farm. It’s a tourist attraction and, yes, we eat turtles, cows, chickens and many other animals. We are carnivores.
Environmentalists, helping to manage the environment sometimes become fanatics and lose their way. There are countries like Costa Rica that are not all rich. The locals will poach turtles, yet it is a country that has the most protected environment in the world.
But when you are poor and people want to protect every bloody thing, you have to give and take. So, sometimes the poor strike back. They have killed environmentalists in Costa Rica, so now the environmentalists are afraid to go and check turtles. Would it not have been ideal to check with the locals and maybe offer jobs where they could have a chance to feed themselves, therefore providing a balance?
Related article in The Guardian: Conservationist murders threaten Costa Rica’s eco-friendly reputation
Category: Marine Environment, Science & Nature, Viewpoint
Did you know that in Costa Rica they allow Ticos to get sea turtle eggs?
The egg harvest at Ostional is regulated and legal.
A formal co-management model between the University of Costa Rica, a community organization called ADIO, and the Ministry of Natural Resources (MINAET) in Costa Rica, was installed to regulate the program.
Every 5 years the program is reviewed and the egg harvest management plan is reviewed and updated as needed, then submitted to the Government for approval.
The current plan notes that:
a. The current density of nests is 11 nests per square meter (Olive Ridleys can only sustain about two
nests per meter without impacting hatchling emergence success).
b. During the arribadas, the females dig up the nests of previous nesting events.
c. Due to the high level of egg breakage, putrefaction rates are very high and the resulting high levels of fungus and bacteria contaminate 100% of nests, reducing emergence success. Removal of surplus eggs has help the population increasing the hatch success by 5%.
d. Eggs can only be harvested during the first 36 hours of an arribada.
f. To be declared an “arribada”, more than 80 adult females must be nesting simultaneously.
The egg harvest program employs 300 local people and the gross income from the program is about $150,000 USD. About 15% of the eggs are harvested. While there are constant concerns about the balance between maintaining the community’s desire and tradition to harvest and consume (or sell) the eggs and the need to protect this precious resource on balance, the program is viewed by some as an example of pragmatic conservation.
http://coastalcare.org/2011/07/legalized-poaching-turtles-eggs-and-playa-ostional-costa-rica/
Can’t you have a farm with a research facility? We could sell turtle oil , its uses are many , skin cream, sun tan lotion,perfumes, vitamin E, soaps etc. We could start exporting shell jewelry, turtle leather products. More jobs that Caymanians used to do.
“The generation gap is in place to prevent over inbreeding which will result in the species becoming weak over time and all associated problems that come with that.”
The only reason that happens is CITES will not allow the farm to be a farm. Plus no one wants to open a turtle farm because of all the negativity . They block the solutions to solve environmental issue . Any farmer knows that if you don’t change breeding stock it will eventually stop producing . The Turtle Farm was allowed to fail to maintain other livestock scenarios.
Turtle Farming is the future. Turtle meat has 4 times more protein then beef and no cholesterol .
Can you imagine if the Turtle Farm had been the success that it truly is and copied throughout the world. We could exchange breeders from one farm to the next and there would be no difference then Sea turtles in the sea?
Sorry ,but I will believe this all of my life. How sad that most on here haven’t even been to the Turtle Farm lately to see already they have reduced the amount of Turtles at the farm already. That the tourist love seeing and touching the turtles. You will never take that away from them.
Tour Bus Driver
Green sea turtles populations could make an extremely large populations in one year if all the environmental groups would change the way they are released. How ? Wait till their shells turn hard. That way birds wouldn’t be able to eat them in large numbers like frigates. You do know that one frigate bird can consume 90-100 baby turtle in one day? The turtle patrols could gather them up and put them in a place like the hatchery till they’re 3 months old.
All coastal areas along Central America are having problems with poaching of eggs and eating whole turtles. Animaliberator, in Nicaragua they sell a large turtle for US$ 30-40. Some places have never stop eating turtle. Why would they not throw away unusable parts? Leather, shell ,etc stored? It would be a larger dump then trash more.
I raised cows with my family because people a long long time ago like the way they taste and milk for babies. We are just the first turtle farmers in the world there will be issues to fix.
I predict it will continue because of the advantages. Less land use, more animals per acre.It has proven itself over time and keeps making headway . I would have liked to see more aquaculture then swimming pools . Maybe shrimp, lobster or conchs farming? But maybe in the future cows and turtles will be looked at the same or the roles will change. Obviously in India they feel different about cows? Who’s right?
Not you my friend
Caged cruelty? Animals have been caged for thousands of years! Sometimes its for their own good (eg. penning in livestock to protect them from predators), other times it’s for our benefit (eg. raising goats/chickens for food).
The arguments surrounding the Turtle Farm, in my opinion, are typically problematic because the identity of the facility is a failure at trying to achieve two somewhat opposing purposes.
If it were solely a farm, and removed the majority of the tourism/research aspects, it would likely stop hemorrhaging money. It would, presumably, lower the cost of turtle meat and disincentivize the poaching of turtles by providing a lower cost, legal alternative to obtain the meat. Further, the operation of the farm wouldn’t impact the wild population of turtles in any significant way, much as a farm for any other foodstock largely doesn’t impact the wild population of the same species being farmed. However, as a farm, it should no longer be eligible for public subsidization, since it would no longer serve some concept of a public good, other than the provision of turtle meat. As such, whether there is enough demand to sustain a purely farming venture would be indicative of if turtle meat as a cultural component is worth preserving. If there isn’t enough desire to eat turtle meat as part of a “cultural heritage” to keep the farm in business, then the farm really shouldn’t be in business.
If the Turtle Farm were instead a research, tourism, and population breeding facility, it would instead need to follow a model more in line with a zoo/aquarium. By removing the impetus to breed turtle levels to provide foodstock, focus could instead be put on revamping the facility to provide a more hygienic, comfortable environment for the turtles in a manner more befitting to their health and study. Breeding would be done with the sole purpose of releasing turtles into the wild to attempt to increase the overall wild turtle population, meaning there would be far less overcrowding of tanks as a much smaller number of turtles would be kept on hand for study and as breeding mates. However, this venture would be significantly less successful in revenue generation, so would require public subsidization of similar, if not higher levels. However, in removing the “farm” component and focusing on turtle health, it would arguably increase the ability of the facility to fundraise or be eligible for grants due to the more morally laudable effort of working toward turtle repopulation and research. There would be a clear, public benefit from the facility.
The problem with the Turtle Farm as it operates is that it is trying to achieve both objectives, and in doing so, failing to recognize that the business models of either objective run largely counter to each other. It’s like two people attached by a rope trying to run in opposite directions. What we need to decide, if we want to ever resolve the albatross the Turtle Farm currently represents, is what we really want the facility to be.
Until then, it’s either a farm with obscenely high overheads costs due to masquerading as a research facility to keep the flow of public money, or a research/repopulation facility failing to maintain quality levels necessary to worthwhile research and repopulation efforts due to the use of foodstock farming practices undermining the turtle population’s long term health and viability. We can’t really have our turtles and eat them too…
Exactly, 9:22. Very well put.
When you next hear the UDP rant about the cost of schools remind them of the high cost of the loss making expensive turtle farm…including a certain well known West Bay politician and his cronies charging $600,000.00 commission for arranging financing.
Whatever the schools cost will continue as a benefit to this country for many decades.
A great Viewpoint to show why the place should be closed down.
It doesn’t need to be closed down. It needs to be re-purposed. Things have changed since the 60’s. People who once ate Turtle every week are now dying of heart disease from fast food.
That is because they are weak-willed lazy and don’t exercise. Unless the farm is being re-purposed into a gym and mandatory salad bar then it won’t make a difference.
You do realize there is a CITES law right? These products cannot be exported to 90% of the world….
His world ends at West Bay Road.
Sounds like someone who drives a bus and really doesn’t care about anything other than how many passengers he was able to get on his bus today.
Humans are omnivores, and please stop trying to compare cows to turtles, because sane people, and most children, already know the difference. Cows are not on the IUCN Red List of endangered species, nor has trade in their by-products been banned by CITES for 40 years. The conservation of sea turtles, which was once one of the stated ambitions of the Turtle Farm, is no longer the practical reality. There are no recent scientific papers. There have been few viable turtles released in last 10 years, and we know that the CTF has gone to great lengths to suppress the occurrence of mass-deaths of 1000s, of what are effectively gov’t subsidized assets, due to disease, and neglect. You then draw a horrendous parallel to Costa Rican poor, suggesting that poor people of Cayman, if not employed by a meat generating CTF, would have some justifiable propensity to strike back and murder people if their job or dining options were restricted. You must have a very dim view of Caymanian people if that’s the future you’d see.
The Cayman Islands Turtle Farm is a disgusting place and should either be taken over to run in an effective, sanitary and humane way or be shut down!
But turtle eaters want to eat turtles and they vote.
Friends don’t let friends eat turtle.
Agree with new management. Disagree with shutting it down. It is a major tourist attraction so we need to make improvements for the benefit of the country as a whole as well as the benefit of the species.
This has got to be a joke.
jeez….where to start???
trying to discuss animal welfare with a caymanian is like banging your head against a brick wall….
btw just because other countries have animal welfare issues does not make the turle farm ok….2 wrongs don’t make a right!
Except that eating turtle meat is an abomination under God. The Bible is quite clear on this.
Don’t you mean gander and gander, or maybe goose and goose?
Not in the Eden Pick And Choose To Win Votes Version.
Sad part is that he is unlikely to run again. I think he actually believes the hate he has spouted, which is far worse than just saying it for a few votes.
Dear Mr. Miller, please do some fact checking and attempt to keep the story the way it was intended some time back when all this started between the turtle farm and the animal protection advocates.
Allow me to enlighten you a bit:
The generation gap is in place to prevent over inbreeding which will result in the species becoming weak over time and all associated problems that come with that.
To the best of my knowledge, the farm is not throwing anything in the dump, why would they?
You simply can not compare a cow with a turtle period. But for your knowledge, a turtle mother will never see her offspring. After laying her eggs, she disappears until the next season. And no, a cow needing acres of land is not abusive, it is a requirement to have that land available if you wish to keep cows. Nothing uncivilized with that scenario.
No sir, we are not carnivores. We have become omnivores over time once having been vegetarians, a long time ago.
Costa Ricans do not poach turtles, their eggs, yes, we know that and the local government is working hard to scale that part back as much as possible over the years. Costa Ricans preserve the turtles with all their might as they want the eggs only to eat, not the turtles. True, some environmentalist have paid the ultimate price for preserving and/or protecting something but again, nothing to do with turtles.
There is no balance to be considered when something is illegal to do such as poaching or killing any endangered species. Governments and advocates around the world are working hard to prevent any kind of illegal activity on the subject. Nothing to do with jobs as such or feeding yourself with an illegal substance of any kind, there is simply no justification for this to way you put it.
I can respect and understand your frustration up to a point why things are the way they are but there are perfectly good reasons why this is happening and may be hard for you to understand but the only way we all can survive is to apply common sense and respect for one another, man and animal alike and most of all abide by the laws as they are written for the betterment of all. The RCIPS and other law enforcement agencies around the world would be very happy with that scenario if exactly that would happen regardless of subject.
My very best wishes to you.
Animaliberator
Well written! Thank you, Mr. Animaliberator.
It loses a ridiculous amount of money every year–millions. Why not spend this on much needed educational improvement? You will never be able to export turtle products because it is illegal everywhere else. Meanwhile, the poaching of big mama turtles keeps on every year because the farm prices make it worthwhile. You’re just being bullheaded because you think “foreigners” are pushing you around. Go ahead and do what you do, but don’t expect a pat on the back or approval for the farm, it ain’t going to happen.
Turtles speak a different language than cows and it can only be heard underwater where they live free and safe from caged cruelty.