Eden denies ‘hate speech’ and asks for removal of HRC chair
(CNS): Veteran backbench MLA Anthony Eden has called for the Human Rights Commission chair to be replaced with a Christian who believes in the Bible, as he defended comments he made about the evils of homosexuality. In the wake of the public fallout following his August parliamentary presentation on a motion about preserving ‘traditional marriage’ and his attack on the LGBT community, the PPM Bodden Town member said HRC Chair James Austin-Smith as well as Dr Leonardo Raznovich had led a campaign of vilification and attempts to “crucify him” over what he said. Eden rejected the accusation that his comments during the debate were ‘hate speech’, despite the exceptionally controversial content.
During a statement on Wednesday morning as the Legislative Assembly opened, Eden claimed that in his August debate he had quoted only from the Bible and what he described as legitimate articles. Reported on CNS, the story about Eden’s speech attracted 402 comments, stirring up wide condemnation as well as some support.
He accused Austin-Smith, who wrote to the premier condemning Eden’s LA speech, and Raznovich, the lawyer who also publicly criticised Eden’s stand and who is leading the campaign to change the law in Cayman to facilitate same-sex partnerships, of “disrespect” for the people of Cayman. Eden claimed that, as a long-standing representative, he had a perfect right to quote from the Bible and other sources.
He derided Austin-Smith as “an admitted atheist who does not believe in God” and called on the premier to appoint someone who understands the people of Cayman and the Bible as chair of the commission, and said Cayman did “not need an atheist chairing our Human Rights Commission”.
Eden, the deputy speaker of the parliament, said that Austin-Smith had taken his comments out of context when he wrote to the premier in the wake of the speech, in which Eden had said some shocking things about members of the LGBT community and described homosexuals as evil.
But Eden said Austin Smith and the broader public should get a copy of the Hansard and read the speech in its entirety. Eden pressed again on the idea that members of the LGBT community are choosing their lifestyle and that they have some kind of agenda, which he did not elaborate upon but tabled an article from a fundamentalist magazine suggesting homosexuals were out to transform America.
Eden said that Raznovich was disrespecting Caymanians and embarrassing the island with his presentations at internal conferences and that the people in Cayman had not wanted to hear about homophobia and misogyny at the serious of lectures he had organized while at the law school.
He dismissed Raznovich’s comments that same-sex marriages have been accepted in many Christian countries. Eden asked how those nations could be called Christian when they had transgressed by allowing same-sex marriage. Quoting from the Bible, he again emphasized his beliefs regarding the punishment God has in store for adulterers, sodomites and homosexuals.
Eden said he did not care what Austin-Smith said about human rights as he would obey the Holy Bible, and both he and Raznovich could malign him for his religious beliefs but he pitied them both and would pray for their conversion.
The HRC chair had written to the premier in the wake of Eden’s August speech in which he had raised grave concerns and condemned the content. His main aim, however, was to call on the premier to address the human rights challenges regarding local legislation when it comes to the rights of same-sex partnerships and stop the wider discrimination faced by the LGBT community fueled by the type of hate speech delivered by Eden. It is understood that the commission and the premier’s office are still in communication regarding that correspondence.
Meanwhile, Raznovich and his husband are currently going through the process of mounting a legal challenge against the immigration department. After Raznovich’s contract at the law school was not renewed he applied to remain in Cayman as a dependent of his husband, an attorney with a leading offshore firm. However, the application was refused when the business staffing plan board said there was no legal mechanism to allow him to be placed on his husband’s work-permit despite the legitimacy of the couple’s marriage in both their own countries of origin.
Although the Cayman government has resisted any move to address the legislative issues relating to same-sex unions or civil partnerships, legal experts including Raznovich and Austin-Smith have warned that it may prove very difficult for it to continue doing so without facing the possibility of significant legal claims that the government will not be able to defend.
Although the UK has said it will not force its overseas territories to introduce same-sex marriage, on a recent visit to the Cayman Islands shortly after Eden’s now infamous speech, the acting overseas territories minister Grant Shapps said it was not a good idea to prescribe some groups with civil liberties and deny them to others.
I demand that the Christian chair person of the HRC is replaced with a Jedi knight who believes in the Force.
Eden is not just a man who made up his stance of this issue from the top of his head. He has thought deeply about what he believes. And being one of the oldest MLA member, he would risk his career for it. Apparently, not even his party can persuade him to think otherwise. He is staunch like the bluff.
Absolute morality states we are endowed with a conscience that speaks to us and tell us what is right and what is wrong behavior. It is not individual and relative. This morality or conscience is universal, timeless, and accepted by Christians as well as Jews and Muslims. There is a moral code by which we all have to live with, and if we don’t live in accordance with “the will of God” dire consequences will befall us. And homosexuality is listed amongst one of those evils that are against moral guide.
You have to get into Eden’s mind to understand his fears and beliefs. His view of what constitutes morality is not only unchangeable and applies to everyone, but it is carefully tailored with what the Bible says.
Other than what this old school politician stands for, Eden, I can say, is a man who has represented his constituency well. He has play a role in the formation of our Constitution, and has a love for our unique Caymanians identity. A cool and reserved man, I personally would rather him than most others to be my ally if I had to fight for a cause. Eden seems reliable and better than most politicians I see out there.
My 2-cent
In an official capacity, Mr. Eden is quoted as saying, “people demanded the right to make love to their animals”, comparing LGBT residents to people engaged with bestiality. And Dr. Raznovich and Mr. Austin-Smith are an embarrassment to Cayman? I say this as a straight, male, 21st Century educated, atheist, born-and bred Caymanian: On the contrary Mr. Eden, you are the embarrassment, sir.
Wonder if “lil’ Tony” felt this way when Uncle Bill was alive?
I am amazed and confused. When a 80+ grandmother was robbed in her home in West Bay in front of her grand child – We don’t care.
No one talks about the fact that the Cayman Islands is one of the few countries in the world that does NOT have a Mental Health Inpatient Hospital. We don’t care.
No one cares that John Gray High School is a dump. We don’t care.
No one cares that the majority of our people earn less than $3,000 a month, ( if working), in a Country that is in the top 10 MOST expensive in the world. No one cares!
But we care, because MLA Anthony Eden, who is equivalent to MLA Eugene Ebanks and Bernie Bush, decided to WORK one day for his $10,000 salary – by introducing HIS views and The Bible to this debate.!!!
I am so GLAD to hear HIS voice ( at $10 grand a month), I thought he had resigned. But SORRY Mr. EDEN – no one elected you to give us a “bible lesson” in your beliefs. If you believe that strongly, LEAVE home, get involved in your community, spread your biblical beliefs, hope that they are received. BUT YOU ARE NOT PAID to LEGISLATE your PERSONAL beliefs. The seperation of RELIGION and STATE is your JOB!!’
But if you can’t do that then go spend a day at a School. Go spend a day at a home with the mother and/or father unemployed. Go spend a day with a a child who has been suspended.
To summarize Mr EDEN, go do your job or find the passage in the Bible that speaks of THEFT – because you are STEALING from this Country. Theft is theft – whether through my window or with your paycheck!!!
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened
If Mr Eden was to study all of the Biblical references to those acts of human beings which were deemed to be anathema, he would find that fornication and adultery were ranked equal with homosexuality. Therefore, by his stated standards, any person who has committed these particular sins should equally be barred from holding office in any Government, or Statutory Board position. That could result in a lot of redundancies if the rules were strictly applied.
The Bible does say to stone adulterers…there goes ⅔ of the Legislative assembly
Gluttony would knock out the rest of them.
The point here is that discrimination is wrong….period!
My own upbringing was such that to discriminate against others (different than me, especially homosexuals) was common and all too accepted. Then I grew up, got educated and travelled the world. And made good friends….of different orientations….and came to appreciate the diversity of our world.
Clearly Mr. Eden is stuck in the past…and this is disturbing coming from a past Govt. Minister for “Health and Human Services” of all ministries! It’s clear also that he may well qualify for psychiatric evaluation…given his insistence to spout such hateful nonsense.
A Caymanian (of many generations)
Dear Caymanian (of many generations),
Is (alleged) discrimination against homosexuals the only form of discrimination you have seen in Cayman, within and beyond this particular forum?
Have you appealed to the hearts and minds of the posters here on CNS that utter the most hateful and disrespectful sentiments against Caymanians on a daily basis?
If not, why?
I would suggest you wise up and not do what many are silently and deviously wishing; throwing out the baby with the bath water. That baby being a sense of national pride and belonging within Caymanians. As locals are continually disenfranchised today, that is the last element that connects us as a people and community.
Many of the most vocal on this issue hail from the most racist and hateful countries in the western world, and they bring with them that culture and mindset.
Don’t get caught up in the hype my fellow Caymanian friend.
Lastly, bear in mind that Mr. Eden’s mindset, along with his personal views on homosexuality, were what laid the foundation for this economic miracle that started with a foundation of “warm and friendly”. If he is a demon then so are virtually all of our grandparents.
Similarly to how the majority of the parents and grandparents of our newcomers are racists and xenophobes according to modern standards in their home countries, our forefathers are “homophobes” as well.
It is what it is, but labels are but the tip of the iceberg. Under the surface is the meat of the story and upon closer examination one will find that a reliance on strict labels or categorisations is unwise or merely the tactic of oily characters to achieve their objectives.
Just curious–how many of these “racist and hateful countries in the western world” have you actually been to? I have been to most/all of the countries that represent the majority of permit holders here and I don’t think you know what the hell you’re talking about. Maybe you should ask the government to see if these xenophobic, racist countries will pass up some of the Syrian refugees they’ve agreed to house and take on some repressed, disenfranchised Caymanians instead.
Well, I’ve been to the USA many times where today you can find many eyewitnesses to countless racist killings and lynchings, legalised segregation, Jim Crow and such.
I’ve also been to the UK where many Asian, African and Caribbean people can give you personal testimonies of the grotesque discrimination, beatings, refused accommodation, and attacks they endured when they arrived simply looking to build railroads or wipe the asses of oft neglected British grandfathers and grandmothers.
I am going to Australia soon where the legacy of racism speaks for itself in the form of virtually replaced and ostracised native people – thousands of whom were torn from their families and placed in White adoptive families in aims to “civilise” them.
I am yet to reach South Africa, however, I do believe you may be familiar with the term “apartheid”. I have plans to network with a Nigerian business partner in Cape Town and she was already warned me of how things are in that particular part of the country. Should be a hoot!
However, do not think for a second that this reality is limited to yesteryear. That foundation of racism and xenophobia is what most of these countries are built on and these systems still play out today in forms of limited opportunities and lack of representation (by design) in their established “democracies”. I could go on to mention racist 4-on-1 ice-axe murders in the UK as recently as 2005 but I wouldn’t want to shake your idealistic image of certain countries.
Anyway, despite being absolute truth, I know all of the above is for naught as for some strange reason, people like yourself insist on denying it all. (I’m sure you have a good reason though.)
You take care – I have to run. I’m late to meet my lesbian Caymanian cousin for a drink with her new, sexy expatriate girlfriend.
Toodles!
The real issue is why has Alden not had the decency to reply to the HRC letter?
Dear Mr Austin-Smith,
Thank you for your letter of 19 August 2015. I was legally obliged to respond under the Constitution by 27 August 2015. I did not respond because I want to stick my head in the sand and ignore you. Answering this letter would put me in what we call “a difficult position” and that might cost me and my party some votes in the 2017 election. You must understand that leadership and integrity must come second to staying in power. Can I suggest that before you write letters in the future you carefully consider whether the letter might put me in a difficult position. If it would please do not send it, because ignoring human rights breaches out of political expediency might cause offence.
Your buddy
Alden
Pretty much outside of what is being discussed here but the recent happenings in France is a good idea of what too much Human Rights buys you in the real world. It starts with the best intentions and paves a road right to woman blowing off their own head in a Parisian flat with a vest (Hell some would say). With that in mind, running a country with less far left HR dicta and more common sense and hey perhaps along with normal modern christian values does have it merits. That is unless you like the slippery slope of full on far left “preaching” that starts with “rights for some” and quickly you start to slide down an abyss of the far left foolery Re illegal immigration, Re free drugs,….and in the future Re Bigamy, Re Multiple wives/husband…..
Where does the liberal left end?…….sadly, the media tends to hang far on that spectrum because it makes the reader feel good or because they are naturally inclined as a group not to be limited to what they publish..I don’t know.
In closing, France (a huge champion of this far left puke) is quickly reversing its course after last week. Going so far to revoke citizenship to “suspect muslim” terrorist even if born in France. The experiment has ended in France with deadly results Mr. Austin and the future is being written now.
Yes, the Paris attacks were a direct consequence of gay marriage.
“Of course, say the true believers, religion rests on faith, not intellect. But if all you need to do to prove I am wrong is to have faith that you are right, then no discussion is possible. . . . It is only by resort to what the Roman statesman Cicero called ‘right reason’ that men and women can interact with each other amicably in a civilized society.”
-Philip D. Harvey
“…normal modern christian values does have it merits.” – lol. Sorry, that line made me laugh. Please do explain your take on “normal Christian merits”
Religion may not be the catalyst to the world’s wars and fighting and killing, not in all the past history at least.
But future history will show that the road to today’s wars, the fighting and killing come mainly, if not All, from some belief in one’s religion and a all powerful god (‘mine is better than yours, nah, nah, nahh’).
Personally, I think all religion should be illegal, but then that would make me no better, would it? I would never want or cast a vote to outlaw anyone’s religion, free thinking and expression. But this, as has been proven, is not something the largest religions preach or practice today, if ever.
Peace, tolerance, understanding and respect is all you need, sadly not everyone understands this or even wants this train of thought.
Interesting analysis 2:45 and you managed to avoid any specific reference to gay rights but still managed to generate so much dislike. Perhaps some truth is being spoke because it is a natural thing to hate the truth.
I recall when Britain was suffering from terrorist attacks and the EU would not let them implement emergency measures but now France suffers from the same fate and they quickly change their position. It only took 1 month after letting in 160,000 refugees and this happened and involved a “refugee”. Donald Trump warned Merkel but German arrogance prevailed. Without France holding Merkel’s hand I wonder what the outcome will be.
The EU experiment seems to be coming to an end and I hope the UK opts out.
Yep we need to be on the alert for the militant gays in suicide vests. This is exactly what happens when you start allowing them to marry and get the idea that they have the same rights as normal people
Biased much? How sad and embarrassing that one can look right past religion as the primary factor in an act of RELIGIOUS terrorism and see liberal politics as the culprit. Stop watching Fox News. It makes you dumber. Really, it’s a fact:
http://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5
Mr Eden need to be remove from government!
why because a sinner who choose to be transformed by his sinful nature is trying to bind us to more to sin?
No. It is because right-minded individuals in the 21st century would consider him a hate-filled narrow-minded odious tool who abuses a bastardised form of religion for political ends.
Yes but the bunch unnah simply don’t have that power, and that is what is really bugging a lot of you???? My wish is that you never ever get it either.
Not really, you can keep “the power” and do what you want with it between yourselves. We are just here until you all create your own end game final shit show through indecision, appeasement, nepotism and corruption.
Most here cannot even drive straight let alone walk a straight path so if I never get this “power” that you refer, I will be happy.
Fundamentalism has been the cornerstone of Caymanian society for many, many years.
All mentalism and no fun.
Why do you think local lawyers are not appointed on these chairs or as judges?
Don’t know. Care to enlighten us? Also not sure what you mean by “local lawyer”, assuming you don’t mean a “not geographically distant lawyer”, but I’m sure you can clarify.
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Except mine.
and mine
I’ll confess. I love gay sex.
“there shall, in that time, be rumors of things going astray, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend’s hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o’clock”.
Blessed are the cheese makers, for they shall inherit the earth….
Cyril, that’s why Rolf Harris wrote “tie me kangaroo down, sport” and “do me digiree doo blue” and it is rumoured he may well have. But lets not get Anthony started on that, we will be here all year.
Right then 5.52, jolly good. Now what’s your point? Mr. Eden is not the Lord, and the Lord I love tells me to care about all Gods creatures, great or small, and even (yes) Mr. Eden despite him not following the Lords Mantra with his hate speech. Nuttin but love for ya ‘bro, nuttin but love.
in the old and new testament the text on homosexuality is very clear it is a Sin of the Flesh (The END)
“And at this time, a man shall lose another man’s hammer”
Brian 12 AD just after tea time.
What would Jesus do? Not vote for an angry bigot like Eden who abuses and distorts Christianity out of political self-interest.
I trust the Caymanians standing strongly with those against Mr. Eden realise that those same individuals do not utter a peep when Caymanians are attacked and discriminated against daily on this very forum.
It is so amazing, human nature. We are seeing this phenomenon of feigned “social justice for all” being played out all over the western world today. Only difference is, “Caymanians” are in the place of you-know-who’s in our setting.
You guys can play childish and fake hopscotch with one another all you want – but don’t bring it over here.
Self-respect, self-awareness, and a proper grasp on one’s social reality is key to the betterment of Caymanians in their own country.
Wise up. Wake up. See the frauds for what they are and their agenda will ring true.
*Hint: Nothing is being done solely or primarily on your behalf. Every vigorously fought issue or campaign is done with an underlying tone of undermining “Caymanians” and or uplifting their own position.
– Whodatis
(Drops mic. Exits stage. Makes sandwich.)
your arrogant and ignorant attitude sumes up so many of the failures of these islands
Our “failures” are identical to those of every other developed country.
You only choose to ignore the failures in your own … the one you left to come here.
Says it all really.
Bye, Felix!
😀
There is nothing more narcissistic than a mic drop when the performance has been a poor one. That goes for imaginary mic drops. Whodatis, for it is you, we know you are a two trick pony, but this is not about how people treat Caymanians a group it is about how people treat homosexuals as a group. So quit the deflection or move onto another thread and moan a bit about Tony Blair.
Unfair – some of Who’s best friends and relatives are homosexuals, according to his other posts, as is Mr Eden, although quite how he reconciles that is entirely beyond my comprehension.
I keep tellin ya – Who is a female
In a Bruce Jenner way or…?
If only Whodatis was as clever as he thinks he is.
She
No way. Only a man would have that weak a character.
The basis of this entire debate is bigotry, is it not?
Why are some forms of (alleged) bigotry condemned by the CNS masses, yet others (e.g. anti-Caymanian sentiments, attitudes, and reality) are endorsed, supported and uttered by same masses?
Frauds.
Kindly explain why protecting gay rights is being done to undermine Caymanians.
Gay voting Caymanians – of which there are plenty.
Correction: Demands that “helper”(with no pension and inadequate health insurance) makes sandwich.”
And secretly spits in it.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.
-Seneca
Eden, your last name doesn’t mean what you think it means, get over trying to control other people and what their beliefs are. Aren’t you suppose to love thy sinner no matter what that sinner’s beliefs are, even when in conflict with your own?
As the old saying goes; “You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar”.
Cayman should be shamed of themselves. 207 comments on gay people and 20 on a pedophile going free. Really people what someone does in their bedroom offends you more than someone molesting your children? Get your priorities straight.
its the same thing isn’t it? 😉
So this would be Cayman’s equal opportunities policy then. People in proper jobs would be sacked for these comments. He should be removed.
“Quoting from the Bible, he again emphasized his beliefs regarding the punishment God has in store for adulterers …”
If he plans on following up with a stoning of all the adulterers there’s going to be a significant drop in the local population.
Yes, with most of the Caymanian male population stoned to death, the women would have to seek relations with…. oh, perish the thought!
Mr. Eden,our elected official, are embarrassing us. All of us, except your fellow dumb hicks, who voted for you in large numbers. You—our racist, xenophobic, knuckle-dragging ignorant leaders—are making us look bad in front of the guests (the whole world). You are the bad cousin in the family who always ruins Thanksgiving. Go in the back room and drink a can of beer alone please.
Tony seems to have misplaced his King James version and picked up the Buju edition by accident.
Actually, the “I have a friend” argument, instantly makes you lose credibility.
Mr. Eden, you were elected as a representative of the people of the Cayman Islands – particularly the B.T. People. However, you MUST understand that GAY people are NOT insisting that the Church or no other institution be belittled. What people are asking is that the Cayman Islands understand that we be afforded the same rights as any other group of people that are being denied their rights – here or abroad. The BIBLE does not speak of Homosexuality in the NEW TESTATMENT because GOD realized that HE made these people and somewhere down the line, people like YOU would misinterpret what he believes is a ‘GOOD’ and ‘DESERVING” citizen of any country. Mr.Eden, GOD forbid that any of your sons produce a GAY child. If you think that is not possible, THINK again. God does not roll dice. Unfortunately, it is people like you who hold the BIBLE in one hand and do very little to help solve the other issues that are so more important and relevant to the betterment of the Cayman Islands. TRY living on the wages that so many of us live on. TRY dealing with the CRIME that is putting the Cayman Islands as a questionable place to visit or better yet TRY dealing with me and my life as A GAY CAYMANIAN who for love of his country and family continue to remain here and deal with your lack of EMPATHY and other compassionate qualities that you so do not possess. THEN and only THEN should you or any other person like you utter any words that are NOT of compassion, tolerance, LOVE and understanding. God help you. That is my prayer for you.
The only reason one could get away with such a statement is because, in today’s society we are so distracted and have become so complacent and so lazy that no one will take the required time to do their own research in regards to statements like “the new testament does not speak against gays”. And people like you are either very misinformed or straight out a deceiver. Life can teach us many things even if we didn’t have ears to hear – we would still SEE that according to the laws of nature – birds and bee’s, flowers and trees – that a male who has sex with another male is partaking in an act that goes against natural human nature and does not work with or towards the reproduction process of life. Birth control is not the problem, your ability to control your hunger for sex is the problem. lol but hey “we’ve got to fulfill the book” as Bob Marley would say.
BUTTTT, ALL WHO KNOW THEY ARE SINNERS, HAVE NO RIGHT TO CONDEMN ANY GAY OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER. ALL WHO FORNICATE, COMMIT ADULTERY, AND SIN IN LITTLE OR BIG WAYS HAVE NO RIGHT TO CONDEMN.
7.34, you have been brainwashed. Seek help.
I’m a terminal male slippery dick – please help!
We need to respect one another and not shove other beliefs down each other throats
Isn’t this the same Anthony Eden who will not sing the British National Anthem, refuses to recognise the fact that we are a British OT and yearns for independence?
Is this also the same Anthony Eden who returned to the Cayman Islands after serving in the US Army? To serve in the US military he must at some time have either held US citizenship or been a resident alien.
Is he really even a true Caymanian?
And to serve in the US Army (something which he used to regularly boast about) he had to swear an oath – “that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States.” That doesn’t sound very Caymanian to me.
Sadly, I hear he has become very anti-UK because of their “gay foolishness”. He should hand back his OBE then.
His stands for “Opposes Buggery Everyday”
Protest to the foreign office that he should be stripped of his OBE then.
Nah, I can’t be bothered. He’s made himself such a laughing stock and a demented horse’s ass, it would be overkill. If he had real honor he would hand it back himself.
It ain’t worth nothing any how, only handed out to keep colonial master very happy because he is giving it to keep disenfranchise citizen loyal and passive to their tyrannical rule
I called my mate Donald Trump. He says Eden is a Muslim and we should ask to see his birth certificate. Donald is never wrong.
It’s a bit drastic to remove the chair isn’t it? Do you expect him to sit on the floor?
Turn it upside down
Well done Mr. Eden and you too Al
Mr Eden, lost all respect for you with these bigoted views of yours. People choose religion but not sexuality. It’s not a lifestyle to be straight, we were just lucky enough to be born straight and avoid prejudiced views such as yours.
Christian Straight Caymanian Voter
Total nonsense. Would you afford pedophiles the same reasoning?
You are a complete idiot if you still believe the myth that gay people are pedophiles.
-Isme
It’s unfortunate that being gay and peodophile are in the same sentence, if you can’t comprehend the difference you shouldn’t parrot the same crap that is rolled out. Your Christian church hid an entire generation of peodophiles, not gay, just men attracted to boys and girls. Where is your moral indignation that priests preyed on boys and girls vs adults who were born gay? Sorry but your attempt to link being gay with abusing children fails at the first hurdle.
I assume that you don’t think being gay is how God made you and therefore challenging your God? That’s not very smart is it. I think eternal damnation awaits you for questioning his decisions, assuming you believe in God?
You can’t selectively choose parts of the Bible that agree to your views, either you are in, or out. Being gay doesn’t rank higher than children out of wedlock, adultery, divorce, etc. so as long as you treat each sin equally you are fine, but turn the other cheek to one and you are a hypocrite.
Consent. One word ends your inane and ignorant argument.
Consent is irrelevant to sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation is not sexual activity.
These are basics.
Come back when you understand.
You missed the point. The point is that paedophilia is outlawed because a child cannot give consent to the activity. That is the point and that is why people like you are just dishonest homophobes.
You flickin ignorant human being. You and those like you (and this includes Mr Eden if you are not him) are the LOWEST OF THE LOW. You cannot compare gays to paedophiles and your comment has just displayed to all how stupid and EVIL you really are. Good job you posted anonymously so you can save face.
It is “paedophile”. Be off with your Americanisms.
Re: “Total nonsense. Would you afford pedophiles the same reasoning?”
Thank you Anonymous 4:14pm!
Before we proceed, please understand the difference between sexual ATTRACTION and sexual ACTIVITY.
People often become enraged because of these comments because they believe to say so is to categorise homosexuality with pedophilia. The 2 do not necessarily exist in one person at the same time.
However, just as homosexuality and heterosexuality are forms of sexual orientation (attraction) – so too is the sexual attraction to children. (If we are being bold and brave then let us go all the way – don’t back off and cower away now.)
Granted, pedophilia is a crime and a sexual attraction to children is viewed as a “perversion”, so too was homosexuality up until the 1970’s. In fact, homosexuality was officially categorised as a psychological disorder up until this time but thanks to lobbyists it was removed from the American Psychiatric Association’s list of disorders.
I trust those behind the fashionable LGBT movement fully understand from whence they came and to where they may end up.
*One of my favourite things to observe is the argument why sexual orientation (not activity), apart from heterosexual, should not be viewed as a “perversion” of sex equally to others, e.g. pedophilia.
I have no idea why you think this is relevant. Slavery, Institutionalized racism, segregation, lack of rights for women etc were all deemed acceptable in the very recent past. We now accept that they were wrong – it is for exactly the same reasons that the legal discrimination against consenting adult homosexuals is wrong.
None of this debate is about what anyone thinks is sexually perverted. To be honest I find the idea of having multiple sexual partners and multiple children out of wedlock distasteful. That doesn’t mean that I want it to be illegal or for anyone who does so to have less rights than I do.
Why can’t people stick to the point here?
This discussion isn’t about forcing anyone to accept homosexuality into their life if they do not want to. You can even go ahead and judge, morally condemn and speak as much as you like about how it says in a book that you take very seriously that homosexuality is a sin. You have the freedom to do so – thanks to the civil rights movements and democratization of the world. What you shouldn’t do is expect the laws of the land to discriminate against someone just because you don’t like the kind of sex they have.
“I dislike what you say but I will defend with my life your right to say it”
red herring
Wanted: New Head of HRC.
MUST: be a Christian, understand the Bible ( King James version only), utilise said Bible as basis for human rights, agree with the “lifestyle of the vast majority of Caymanians over the past 500 years” (including the 140+ year period that predates earliest known settlement of Cayman, be able to reconcile Leviticus with said lifestyle. Must NOT: be an atheist, be a sodomite, be an adulterer, be gay (irrespective of whether engaged in sodomy or not), belong to any non Christian religion, ask awkward questions, do anything to disturb the status quo. Firm belief in the immutability of the word of God and life in Bodden Town, including the absence of a waste disposal facility, an advantage.
it will start there and evolve into only one denomination of Christianity, the rest he will brand as heresy.
Just another example of Cayman kind hypocracy
Whilst 90% of the people in Cayman (and the planet at large) see Mr. Eden for what he is (a bigot) he’s rather shrewd in that he knows the 10% that agree with him are his voters… These are the same people who wave the bible as a shield… yes the book that says gay = bad but slavery = okay… growing different crops next to eachother = death sentence… not wearing cotton = death sentence etc etc etc…
“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
-S. Weinberg, Nobel Prize in physics
So easy to quote meaningless and unsubstantiated words
Like the bible?
@7:27pm: Well, here’s some more great and thought provoking quotes about religion. THINK!
If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be – a Christian.
-Mark Twain
A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
-Albert Einstein
“Where knowledge ends, religion begins.”
-Benjamin Disraeli
“The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by Homo Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history.”
-Robert Heinlein
“Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.”
-Napoleon Bonaparte
Looked in the mirror lately?
whoever said caymanians were backward and ignorant?????
Yes, judge us all from one man’s perspective; that would make you….smart?
Nope, makes you even more ignorant.
You are judged by your public silence to express outrage at him. He thrives because of it.
It is quite a bit more than “one man’s perspective” when that one man is an elected representative of the people ……..
Unless and until he polls votes from those people on every issue, his words will always just “one man’s perspective”. Don’t care what you say this DOES NOT represent the views of the majority of Caymanians. There are just a few sour, bitter, evil and twisted so-called Christians responsible for ALL this hate. They are a minority using excuses such as the one you just made to substantiate their evil doings.
You are absolutely right but I think @7:11 was referring to his ability to command the public’s and media attention not to mention his abuse of parliamentary privilege.
As Churchill said, in a democracy, you get the government you deserve.
can i judge you then on the response of the your mla’s in their entirety?
“We do not need an atheist?”…….Mr Eden, what we NEED is someone who is impartial, objective and has no ‘agenda’ (be it religious or otherwise), someone who knows the law, someone who is willing to stick their neck out and protect others….and by ‘others’, human rights MUST protect ALL others, not just those that share the same faith, education, culture, ethnicity, skin colour, sexual orientation etc…..The Chairman Mr James Austin Smith does just that…keep up the good work HRC!!!!
Excellent post, Danielle. Two problems, though. You are asking Eden and others like him to consider human rights in the way it is supposed to be considered and as it was established after the religious bigotry based genocide of the Jews in Hitler’s Germany. Eden’s “holy bible based evidence” takes no account of that and he, poor man, is not intellectually able to think in any other way than the “rule book” way of the Old Testament, even when its rules tell him different and contradictory things or things like slavery is ok. The second problem, very sadly, is you will probably get a bunch of comments about how you are not a real Caymanian blah blah.
Godwin’s Law
I was raised a devout Baptist in the Southern US. Both parents were Sunday school teachers. My father was a deacon. One Sunday my father and his fellow deacons barred the doorway to prevent a young couple from entering. They were dressed better than many of us. The man wore a suit and the woman a fine dress, stockings and high heels. So why were they turned away? They were Negros. This was in the 1960s. I was growing up, changing from an obedient child into a thinking, reasoning, questioning human. I never looked at Christianity the same after that day. I mention it here to illustrate how, if you pay attention, time can bring awareness and enlightenment and hopefully, can banish ignorance. Segregation is a thing of the past and one day homophobia will be too. Why promote hatred, what will it gain you?
Agreed with your post except for the part about segregation.
Today we have all sorts of segregation; class, racial, etc.
It is still very prevalent in societies around the world.
Forgive me. I was distracted by the reference to stockings and high heels.
It may have stop for you southern baptist but its still going and time has change but the tyranny of colonialism has only transformed its self into a more subtly form. Oh do give yourself a rest eh old boy!
I am with Mr. Eden all the way!!!
CaymanKind
Right behind him?
Seek help then, seek help my friend.
i had no idea he was an atheist? is this definitely true.. whilst it somewhat docent have to do with basic human rights . i do believe, here in cayman… a ‘modern christian’ should have the head
But then what we remove the guy for a belief..?
isn’t that the same as judging and punishing mr eden for his beliefs?
Where does it stop?
Where do we draw a line… ?
Thinking now.. why is it that we need foreigners on a HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION… when we all have so many caymanians who have such explosive speech for “WHAT IS RIGHT”
makes me wonder…
He admitted on Rooster that he is an atheist…
“admitted’. Why the hell did you use the word “admitted’. There is nothing shameful in stating the truth about yourself and your beliefs you ignorant moron.
Wondering why you use the word “admitted.” Makes it sound like a crime.
can’t believe that….
I bet you are confused. Your comment makes that very clear….can’t make sense of your non-sense, please try again.
I think it is pretty obvious why there should not be a Caymanian heading up HRC.
Human Rights Commissions all over the world have one mission and that is to work for a free, fair and safe country where “diversity” is valued and human dignity and rights are respected. By stating that Mr. Austin Smith needs to be removed due to his beliefs, you are in fact stating the complete opposite of what the Human Rights Commission stands for! That’s a little concerning….
Human rights is just another mask for XXXXXXX up the World. if you live long enough you will see that.
Does he really believe that? Or does he realize that most of his voters believe that?
Cayman please ask all these so called atheist demigods spewing their self serving anti Caymanian and anti christian drivel, ask them why their ungodly societies whom invited everybody to come live in harmony is now having so much terrible problems and upheaval in their countries and their communes of peace and we love everybody, so much so that they now want to restrict those they claim they love and invited in and to take away everybody’s rights and religious freedoms so they can feel safe. Because those whom they have invited, they too have developed abhorrence and a serious intolerance for their evil corrupt and ungodly ways. Their multiculturalism benign program is just another tool which they as a minority try to overcome and suppress the rights and views of the peaceful majority in a place and that is exactly what they are doing here in Cayman. Those Caymanians who speak against Mr Eden speak against themselves?
Wibble.
“…ask them why their ungodly societies whom invited everybody to come live in harmony is now having so much terrible problems…”
Sounds like Cayman!
Actually, the turmoil stems from religious ideology. But keep on thinking atheists are the problem.
Jesus and John were pretty tight.
There were some foot rubs and hair drying before the last super too. #supergaybut thatsokay
Sir , you are gonna be SO shocked when you meet your maker and find out He is a She , and She is a lesbian .
Bruce Jenner is my maker?
One day every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to God
As soon as Eden and his ilk start shunning shellfish, tattoos, clothes of mixed materials and the plethora of other things equally (or more so) condemned than homosexuality in the bible then I will listen to the Christian principles argument with a fair ear.
Until then it is plain, obvious bigotry that should be strongly criticised by people of all walks of life. It was hate speech, the man should be removed from office.
12:09 pm, add to that sexual abuse of children by family members and people in position of authority; robberies and burglaries; corruption and stealing. Or this is allowed by the christian heritage?
Mr Eden is a potent example of how a basically good man, seduced in his twilight years by a highly selective fundamentalist reading of the Bible, can go from being an esteemed, trusted elder statesman to a figure of ridicule, contempt, embarrassment and downright dislike. Very sad.
Just like an old tree stops sprouting new branches, people of a certain age are unable to change their beliefs set in bricks and stones, because their evolution and growth stops. I am not even talking about mental decline which is a part of life, but should be taken into account. This would be OK if he spoke on behalf himself only.
With all due respect to existing MLA members, MLA needs younger people, much younger.
Yes anon 8:21am but this foreign atheist element here is neither tolerant nor kind to anyone that includes their very own. so Mr Eden is right they shouldn’t be in that position
Don Rigo-the “atheist” in question is not supposed to be kind, he is supposed to do his job. In many cases he cannot be kind because idiots like you just have no understanding of Human Rights, which are now adopted worldwide including these shame filled islands.How can you be kind to people with no respect for other peoples Human rights? And as for Christian, well , that’s about loving thy neighbor and thy enemy, so which part don’t you get? Too difficult for you? Prefer the selective Bible approach? Thought so…
I like the attached photo, but can’t decide if it shows confusion or just a plain vacant mind
Vacant mind.
I think he’s wondering what to have for lunch.
Will the good Christian MLA be having the Pork or the Lobster today?
More likely a nice big plate of endangered species.
It’s a Friday, it better be fish… and not shellfish.
Anthony Eden may as well just join ISIS…. He is a total moron. I may not be christian but I have read the bible and gone to the schools and last I heard Jesus wanted peace and love, not hate and prejudice. How can we remove this idiot from having a say about how our country is run???
Dear Mr Eden,
How dare you say “the people of Cayman”. You do not and will not EVER speak for me. Your gobbledegoop is ridiculous in every way possible. Grow up and show some respect or leave this country yourself!
I guess there are not many places he could go
Deport him to the Brac
It actually would be a pretty good place for them to establish their compound. Lots of members already on the ground.
The only benefit of religion is that it keeps disagreement, promote wars and consequently aid in culling the earth of filth that is human. This allows my fellow tree and I, to have one more day before the chainsaws find us.
-Treebeard
There are few things more disturbing than intolerance born of religious fundamentalism. If Mr Eden has a dogmatic personal opinion regarding homosexuality, that is his prerogative. However, he does not have the right to demand that others must agree with, or support him. Whatever happened to freedom of choice.
He, like others keep forgetting what year we live in and that the younger generations have grown up around change and accept things for what they are. Mr. Eden trying to shove HIS views down others throats is not what he is paid by us to do. He claimed “Not on my watch”, well sir, your watch is coming to an end and good riddance.
Well said!
Bodden Town voter here!!!!
Or to claim that his views represent the views of others
You know, upon checking the pulse of the world right now, and in the immediate aftermath of the fundamental Islamic terror attacks in Paris, many of these comments are very disheartening.
In the UK, Germany, France, Belgium, America and many other western countries, there is a formidable push and call on the part of fundamental Muslims for those nations to bend their values, beliefs and way of life to align with theirs.
The very same is taking place in Cayman today.
Many of you posters right here on CNS are fundamentalists in your own right.
There are so many demands on Caymanians to change their values and beliefs system to align with that of our newcomers.
Congratulations folks, you guys have proven yourselves to be ideological terrorists.
Personally, I am not a “devout Christian”, however, I come from parents and a family that most would describe as such. Yes, many of the faith values of my immediate family members do not align with mine, however, I RESPECT their RIGHT to their opinions and expressions of core values.
I may not agree with everything Mr. Eden believes, however, to describe him as hateful, backward or evil is downright wrong and despicable. I say this not only because I have interacted with him personally or due to the fact that I know his children and extended family, but because I know the truth of his soul and perspective – as it is common to what is likely the majority of Caymanians – especially those of his generation.
It is clear that many on this forum are intent on not respecting or understanding his / our point of view, however that is neither here or there. So long as the majority of Caymanians support or do not oppose his viewpoint in certain regards, then that is simply the end of the story.
It is called DEMOCRACY. Look it up.
(Feel free to read my earlier post on this aspect of the discussion down below for elaboration.)
To my fellow Caymanians I say, keep your heads high.
We are a peace-loving, “warm and friendly” people (although it is clear such qualities are often regarded as weaknesses in today’s world). Other countries only wish they could boast of a modern history free from segregation, apartheid, lynchings, burning crosses, race riots, division, economic oppression etc. as we can.
To each a good day.
Regards,
– Whodatis
Excuse us for wanting every human to be treated with respect. I guess the “cayman way” is to tell homos they got no home… oh? That is the complete opposite values my Caymanian friends have expressed.
Give me an effin’ break…please.
Are you honestly here on CNS calling for “every human to be treated with respect”?
Sure, you may fit in if Caymanians are not regarded as humans.
Again I ask, where is this great spirit of human fellowship when Caymans are being berated and disrespected on every given issue on every given day?
If not unemployment or claims of being uneducated, it is because of something as futile as eating turtle.
FOH.
– Who
P.S. All of my gay Caymanian cousins are in the yard and around the table just like the straight ones at every family gathering.
Whodatis is a shadow of his former self. His deflections are predictable as are his responses. CNS is in need of a new troll. This one needs to be put out to pasture. Or placed under a nice bridge. Which is what I suspect you do with old trolls.
Yep, same ol’ tactics as before.
When backed into the corner with undeniable truth – go for the personal attacks.
You are awesome.
– Whodatis
*Thank you for proving my point better than I ever could though.
Look at the thumbs Who, look at the thumbs. The thumbs don’t lie. The thumbs can be a savage judge.
* Unless it is a thread about the dock. Then the thumbs lie because they are hired thumbs.
Yes, the thumbs don’t lie on this forum which could easily be renamed as “The Expat Voice” or “Expat Nation”.
Now selling on the bottom rack of off-license newsstands everywhere!
😀
Wow…must be one hell of an existence for certain people living in Cayman.
How you feel doh? :-p
Guess you are not around at Mr Edens place then. Tell me, how do your gay cousins feel about being called evil, and accused of sucking babies brains?
Whodatis, sweetie, do try to stick on topic, you are becoming a bore. The topic of the day is gay rights, not the treatment of Caymanians at the hands of evil foreigner colonials.
Really, my dear?
I thought the topic of the day was bigotry – as that is what Mr. Eden is being strongly accused of.
However, this won’t be the first time where the masses are selective on what constitutes bigotry … and thereby endorsing other forms of discrimination as it suits them.
-Who
Whodatis …………….did you just state that Caymanians are free from “economic oppression”?
No minimum wage in this country. Some employers found to have paid below $2.00 an hour and not to paying pension & insurance. Aren’t all companies to be 60% owned by a Caymanian.
The government has not prosecuted the employer of that helper, the young Jamaican national, with no insurance, that was nearly burned alive in a West Bay road car accident. Bless her soul. https://caymannewsservice.com/2015/09/crash-victim-airlifted-to-jamaican-burns-unit/
How many helpers, employed by Caymanians, are not being paid pension & insurance and a decent minimum wage?
How many foreign nationals are on here with no jobs but holds a work permit taken out by auntie, uncle, cousin who has no work for them and never had any intentions of hiring them, but they are walking the streets trying to get a days work.
Plenty of them in BT – when I am at home I am always being approached by them asking me for work round the house.
oh dear Who, how dare you compare the horrific events in Paris, carried out by cowards with guns and brainwashed to believe crazy ideas, to what is being discussed here. You sully the people we lost. You dirty the democratic argument. That argument is that we all have a right to our opinion, but we all need to uphold what is international law, and is international law for a good reason. It makes sense.
To date, that very “international law” has been used to justify and excuse the inhumane actions that directly led to the creation of ISIS…while making a certain few western leaders and their associates very rich.
Furthermore, that “international law” also wrote-off the life value and significance of the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children that were slaughtered by America and the UK on a pack of lies.
Therefore, excuse me as I excuse your perspective as once again you are portraying the flip-flop approach to these arguments.
– Who
Who, you must be somebody very important in the world, for you seem to know everything, and everyone else is wrong. Or you could just be a complete insensitive nutter. Methinks that latter.
I believe “Who” and “I am Caymanian, Where are My Rights” are related.
Whodatis, it is not often I disagree with you, but in this case I certainly do.
I’ll take your word for it that he is a nice man, but Mr. Eden is perpetuating the hostility towards the LGBTQ community, which so many here, CAYMANIANS INCLUDED, are a part of. This community of people is not asking for anything except the right to be treated as equals despite who they lay with. Is that really such a daunting, outlandish request? Are we really comparing this to Islamic fundamentalists?
The LGBTQ community has long been a part of Cayman. Don’t kid yourself into believing any different. The “newcomers” did not smuggle it into the islands.
Mr. Eden (and other elected officials) spew their non-conformity and display such a blatant lack of acceptance because their god and their bibles tell them to do so?
What gives our elected officials to right to tell people that they are not equals because of their lifestyle with other legal, consenting adults? Mr. Eden is permitted to exercise his freedom of speech, but the LGBTQ community is not allowed the freedom to…be who they are??
I am not a part of this community, but I am completely baffled as to why people are so concerned with who other people choose to be intimate with. Why does this concern anyone else? How does someone else’s sexuality impact you and your heaven?
There shouldn’t even be a “LGBTQ community”. One world. One people. One love. What else matters?
Re: “One world. One people. One love. What else matters?”
Where are you (and your supporters) when Caymanians are attacked and ridiculed daily on this very forum?
You guys are full of shit.
In fact, many of you are the very ones spewing the hatred toward Caymanians every single day.
(smfh)
– Whodatis
Did Whodatis just say OTHER PEOPLE are full of shit? Do we file this thread in Pot/Kettle folder or the Sad Resort To Deflection folder?
So its alright for you and others to attack expats but when you get what you give out it becomes some sort of heinous crime? Talk bout double standards.
Give me one love, one world, one people, one blood any day over xenophobes such as you.
Whodatis,
I wrote the 3:23pm post and I assure you, I am a born and bred Caymanian. But why does that matter?
When are people going to start looking beyond colour/nationality/sexuality etc? THIS IS WHY NOTHING CHANGES! Be the one to say that enough is enough!
As long as we are good, honest, hard working people, why should anything else matter?
People with nothing constructive to say or if they do say something, it comes without any real substance and does not get the result they were hoping for resort to name calling or hiding behind religion to mask their backwards way of thinking.
Well written “Whodatis”.
Well balanced comment; but we did have lynching in our islands many, many, many, years ago…..right there at Smith Cove beach and the tourists LOVE that beach. 😉
I never knew what it was like to be around racism or prejudice until I came to Cayman. Whites don’t own racism and on this island it seems that many are racist against “westerners of European decent”
Got to be honest. I have come across racism in the UK as I went to school with some of the first Jamaican kids to land in the UK (who remain my good friends to this day). I hated racism back then as much as I hate it today – no matter who it is directed at. but I can honestly say I never experienced or witnessed racism of this severity until I came to Cayman – its just out there slapping you in the face on a daily basis, and its extremely saddening to see.
“free from segregation, apartheid, lynchings, burning crosses, race riots, division, economic oppression” – well I will give you the lynchings, burning crosses and race riots
This is disingenuous. Whodatis has refused to express support for gay marriage or the rights of Mr Raznovich. But instead of just saying that he spews out all this puff.
Yes, makes perfect sense. Let’s get someone who follows a book that condones slavery and defines women as property to head Cayman’ human rights efforts.
Its a shame that those on here who are in agreement with homosexuality are the most angry, nasty and vicious “commenters”. It is a pity that you want to have your say to defend your position but see Mr Eden as wrong to have his opinion. Its about dialogue and expression of thoughts, beliefs and feelings that eventually cause people of one opinion to have a change of heart. However, if you are telling me I have no right to feel what I feel or believe what I believe you are saying that only your opinion or point of view is right. Where then is my freedom? Where then are my human rights? HRC chairman cannot be neutral as some suggest. He is too emotionally involved in the issue so if his job is to be impartial and seek the human rights of all then he should step aside from this situation –
XXXXXX
So for the bashers who will respond to my post – one of my closest friends is gay. He and I lived next door to each other from the time we were born and although we knew he was different as a child we did not know why. I love him and care for him but there are some things we disagree on. He does not find it necessary to shout at me to hear his heart. (I have heterosexual friends who I dont agree with everything they do either). I am not yet (dont know if I ever will be) comfortable with gay relationships but I dont condemn him because I do not know what made him this way because in my mind he was born this way having been so from childhood.
Yet, I have embraced Christian teaching and so its in my prayers that God – yes I believe in God, will help me to understand. So instead of the Eden haters being so loud and angry, help us who stand with him to understand. Your attitude makes us not even want to listen. You do not have all the say. You do not have all the rights so have a proper conversation and I will listen. I am sure most of us would listen but I have no time for shouting just to shut out the other side that you do not like!
people get loud when the stubborn don’t listen