Featured comment: Legalising gay unions
‘Anonymous’ writes: Is this about conservative religious intolerance and bigotry, generated by a belief in a book that is far younger than most realise? Are we seriously saying that our lives should still be dictated to by stories interpreted in the Dark and Middle Ages by lonely, celibate fanatics whose path to righteousness was through wholesale torture and murder? Are we really that backward that we must revere a past that is blood soaked in human misery, where genocide, infanticide, rape, mutilation and racial intolerance were standards of Christian behaviour?
Where was the love during the Roman invasion, the Norman Invasion, the Crusades, the entire Tudor period, the Spanish Inquisition, Papal Wars, etc?
One thing we have learnt in 2,000 years of so-called modern religion is that it is based on hypocrisy, intolerance, fear and unrestrained power over others.
To those here in Cayman who espouse this nonsense, I say this: Christianity was founded in the Middle East and exported to Europe by the Romans. You know, that trustworthy bunch who followed bloodthirsty dictators and mythical gods, and slaughtered millions to gain power and influence over the known world. Do you not think that they were smart enough to realise that the new religion of Christianity was a growing threat to their own power-base and assumed direct control over it to maintain supremacy? Was this not politics, Romano style?
And where do you think many of your ancestors found the Bible? Yes, that’s right, at the end of a sword, gun or slave whip by people who were so fearful of damnation they followed their religious doctrine and sought the ultimate power over their fellow human beings, murder and slavery.
Don’t you not think it odd that the countries with the most fearful history of conquest and slavery are the most notorious in the Christian world, Italy (Rome), Spain, Portugal and, of course, Britain, to name a few?
Now, don’t get me wrong. I believe that ‘marriage’ is the union of a man and a woman, but that’s not based on the musings of ancient nomads or monks. It’s based on human tradition and nature. Clearly, a man and woman were designed to procreate, but procreation isn’t necessarily about love, respect and honour. I’m sure there are more than a few ‘Christian Caymanians’ who have procreated without following any of these standards. I also believe kids should be brought up in a home with a mother and a father and learn respect for all people, not just those who conform to a religion or lifestyle choice.
As a straight, red-blooded male, I would no more want to see heterosexual couples displaying overt, embarrassing or disrespectful signs of affection in public as I would a gay couple. Militant gays are just as bad as militant religions. They have no more right to cause public concern than anyone else. One could also argue that our guests from the cruise ship market are just as insensitive when they parade their unkempt, sometimes less than attractive, semi-naked bodies around central George Town.
The point being that love, respect and honour are the apparent standards of Christianity, a religion founded on extreme violence and intolerance of difference. If that is truly so in the modern context, isn’t it time that religion caught up with modern standards and started to preach the tolerance of difference, just the way that the church abandoned slavery in the 1800’s?
As for those who rant about Cayman’s right to self-determination on such matters, well, sorry folks! This goes way above your amateur politicians and endless public meetings. This is a matter of international acceptance, and you have no choice. You may avoid UN mandates, but this country cannot and will not afford the storm that would follow the inevitable flow of litigation to the ECHR. The fines would be massive and do irreparable damage to Cayman’s finances and reputation.
This will not only affect Caymanians, it will also affect every resident and worker. You seriously don’t want a war with possibly hundreds of litigants who will exercise their modern human rights against a Dark Age mentality. Once the liberal lawyers start realising there’s money to be made, all hell will literally break loose.
I’m just amazed it hasn’t happened before. It’ll only be a matter of time now — today gay rights, tomorrow work permits and the right to a family life.
How many gay people, their supporters or sympathisers invest money here on Cayman? How many Caymanians want to come out from this barricade of fear and bigotry? And how long do you think you can hold out against the political pressure that would come your way?
You don’t have to like it, you don’t have to condone it, but you will have to accept it and respect those who choose a different path from your own.
This comment was posted in response to: HRC calls on CIG to legalise gay unions
Category: Local News
It’s not a choice. Be educated.
So Jesus was a racist? Tell us who the red and yellow people are, I dare you.
Re: Romans1.
Take time out from choking on your bible to see what some religious fanatic tried to do in Jeruselem today. And before you go into a rant about this disgusting, cowardly crime being committed by a Jew and not a Christian, he attempted to act out the very words you referred to in Romans 1. A New Testament Epistle, ‘They commit things worthy of death’.
I hope you’re proud of your Dark Age rantings, 6 innocent young people are seriously injured because some religious lunatic can’t live in the real world of the 21st century.
Whether he is Christian or Jew, this kind of religious terrorism goes straight back to the Christian scriptures you so proudly hold dear.
A tolerant and forgiving religion, you are quite delusional.
My friend, there is nothing wrong with the Scriptures in themselves. The wrong is in the person who has took it on him or herself to interpret them the wrong way… That is why Jesus left the Church in the care of church leaders like Popes, Bishops, etc… in order to safeguard correct Bible interpretation.
It is just like secular law. You have people in positions who want to take the interpretation of the law into their own hands, and to find out which interpretation is right, you have to go back to the framers of the law, the highest court.
With Christianity ifs basically the same thing: So many Christian denominations saying this and saying that about the Scriptures and some preaching hate, but if you inquire the original interpreters of Scripture, sure enough you will find “them” along the Roman, Antioch, and Jerusalem roads. There has always been one, holy mother Church and its interpretation has always been one of love, open arms for gays and all sinners to repent and secure a higher happiness than what this life can afford.
Errr, no he didnt. Other men (or women) gave us that. The same men or women like you who cannot hear any arguement other than their own, and make as much sense as a box of frogs. In fact the frogs make more sense. And that is exactly where human problems begin…Hitler wouldnt listen, Saddam wouldnt listen as other despots throughout history would not. My dear Sir, you are the problem, not the solution.
Confirmed what I thought. Cayman is doomed anyway, almost all sex takes place before or outside of marriage. We may as well be hung for sheep as for lambs!!
Germany is UK’s best friend now. One madman does not represent the feelings of all.How do you think Caymanians in the US will fare it Trump gets in as President? Come to that your leaders look after you worse than any slave trader…cheating, lying, corruption, but you are quite happy to allow that….just no gays..how quaint.
To me this is a larger unresolved point in this discussion regarding Christianity and other religions:
How can anyone believe that it was/is possible to translate ‘scripture’ thousands of years down the line? Old testament, new testament, it doesn’t matter. We can’t even get history correct from 100+ years ago of translations, how can one feel it is ‘wise’ to believe and follow what was written 1500+ years ago? Does anyone who follows Christianity truly believe that all of the translations remain 100% accurate centuries on?
Europeans do not have the moral high ground with this argument and as far as I am concerned, they have lost the right to accuse anyone of bigotry or hatred.
What they did to each other and the rest of the world was unimaginable to most of the people on the planet. If these hypocrites want to claim that we need to get over it, then they need to get over what the Nazi’s did to Europe and permit Nazism back into Germany. Can they get over Nazism? How exactly was Nazism any different from what the non-Nazi’s did (and are still trying to do) to the rest of the world?
I am personally not in agreement with most of the bible quoting arguments and am not very religious. But those bible quoting people in Cayman are very important to me because they saved us when everything seemed hopeless during the slaughter, enslavement and later abandonment. Their biblical training made them uniquely qualified to be the leaders that kept us from sinking into despair when the European bigots came, destroyed, stole and left.
Most of the African descendants in the Americas and Caribbean have no idea of their African heritage. Would a European tolerate that? So before Europeans accuse anyone of bigotry they should try and correct some of the harm their bigotry caused and stop attacking our religious people. Even me as a non-believer love and trust them more that you can imagine and intend to defend their leadership in shaping our culture and their right to be religious.
At least the European outcasts in Australia had the decency to say sorry and in 1998 created a Sorry Day. Are there any decent Europeans left in Europe?
Actually the first settlers were British, not African, and Cayman never witnessed the horrors of industrial slavery because it produced little of value.
Please give proof of ‘slaughter, enslavement and later abandonment’ here on Cayman, because apart from the relative few Africans that were brought here from Jamaica, Cayman was not the slave traders destination of choice. And records show that many free slave families were given cash and/or land after abolition here on Cayman. Land that many descendants still own to this day.
And just to clarify, these islands have always been a British Soveriegn Territory, populated by British citizens. They were settled in peace, never subjugated by force or exposed to colonial oppression of any type.
The Caymanian preachers you refer to at the time were almost certainly white and of British decent, sent to Cayman by their respective church’s to enforce church doctrine. Society just would not have tolerated anything else in the 18th and early 19th centuries. It would have been after this time that colour would have played a part in religion, when former slaves or their descendants retained their bible bashing mentality as a crutch for their insecurities.
Your own history notes that in 1802 there were only 933 inhabitants of Grand Cayman, with 545 being classified as slaves. At abolition in 1833, there was a total of 950 blacks of African ancestry, owned by 116 whites. In anybody’s book, that is not anywhere near the numbers held elsewhere and doesn’t include the many others of the white population that were not slave owners.
All forms of slavery were and still are an appalling act of inhumanity, but please keep Caymans experience in context. Just because their were inevitable inter racial relationships, don’t assume that all those of mixed race take the political correct line of identifying as black, especially during the late 19th and most of the 20th century, and especially here on Cayman.
Finally, it’s amazing how you talk of African culture, but then interpolate that with Christianity, a religion imposed in shackles and forced upon slaves at the point of a sword, gun or whip. You attempt to trash the the European race and continue to blame it for almost everything, but you cannot adjust from the bad old days of hypocritical, bible thumping preachers spewing messages of damnation and fear. In fact you actively keep that 17th century mindset going and criticise others for their more enlightened or modern views.
Do you not see the irony in that situation, can you not see that the very people who enslaved your descendants in the name of God to save them from savagery and damnation, the very people who dehumanised slaves for profit and gave thanks to God for supplying them with such bounty, are the very same people who’s message you still espouse?
You talk of culture, when you really mean inherited hatred and intolerance.
Check out the registry of slave owners in the Caribbean and see how many ‘men of God’ had direct ownership or investments in slave ownership. Who do you think acted as housemaids here on Cayman, yep, the same as now, Jamaicans.
You must be so proud that you’ve moved so little in 200 years.
Why would you seek to undermine these holy contrived issues with actual facts and figures from our recorded history?
You, sir (or madam or other), are no fun.
Here they come with the European history lesson. These Islands and Continents existed long before the European infestation. Where is that history or are we just supposed to pretend that none of that existed because it was not recorded by a European?
It is like the joke of the history books that we are using in school, where we teach our children that nothing worthwhile existed when Columbus arrived. Well what you think that you know is all lies. So unless you can tell us a least 1000 years of detailed history of the Arawaks and Caribs, you should really stop pretending that you are informed. We know who we are and we know what they did (and are still doing) and we will eventually recover from this.
Britain may have been culpable in how this all started, but when the British people found out what these tyrants were doing, they were outraged. Once Wilburforce got their Parliament to agree, Britain launched their Navy and shed British blood to put a stop to it. Britain is our hero and we are grateful that they continue to tolerate the European ridicule because we are still their colony. That ridicule seems identical to the ridicule that we are now experiencing because the feelings of our religious people are important to us.
Human rights are more important to us that LGBT rights. We have our kids killing each other and some of our families have become homeless. Our religious people are only people that seem to care so we must give them time to evolve with this LGBT thing without calling them bigots. Teach them with patience, don’t insult them.
Consider this.
The New Testament was written in Greek. There is no word for homosexual in the language of the day as it is a 19th century word used to identify a perceived lack of masculinity. Late Victorian men were supposed to be fit, healthy, warriors who confirmed to the masculine stereotype of the era.
The Greek words used at the time identify traits that we assume are direct translations of our own language. But they are not, they do not identify any form of deviance, only descriptions of benign behaviour, such as softness etc…
The word not only didn’t exist in biblical times, the modern interpretation didn’t exist either as human evolution, physiology, psychology and basic anatomy wasn’t yet understood. Whilst certain acts were considered unsociable or unusual, there is no proof that relationships with the same sex were any worse in the bibles eye, than say, adultery or theft. But you accept both of those activities as a part of ‘normal’ life.
It is very clear from ancient art work, notably at Pompeii, that ancient peoples enjoyed all manner of sexual activity. But in their eyes, was it wrong or was it normal, how will we ever really know?
What we do know is that there is only one clear reference in the bible to what we understand as homosexuality. But it is less than certain that the interpretation made in modern times is the same referred to by the ancients, 1500 years earlier.
It is clear that interpretation is the key to tolerance and understanding. The brainwashing of millions continues without a care for history or the real facts. Fear, ignorance of history and a misinterpretation of an ancient language are all to blame, but that is no excuse to indulge in the 18th century bigotry that festers hate.
Well … consider this. The New Testament may not mention the word “homosexual” but it sure does describea marriage is between a man and a woman. It considers sex outside of marriage without Gods blessings to be a sin.
I think the Bible is clear on the homosexual issue. Now if you’re not a Christian you could care less what the Bible says. But I see this gay movement is about changing what the Bible and Church says ….
Its not going to work
Then let gay people get married and let your God decide. Why do you think you have the right to decide other people’s path, to damnation or not. The arrogance of your argument is astounding.
Sex outside of marriage, give me a break, Caymanians are class acts when it comes to sharing the love, especially outside of marriage or with those other than their spouse.
And that’s the point, YOU think the bible is clear, but you have no understanding of the ancient interpretation of language, emotion, social standards or human relationships. You just take an old story and interpret it into modern language, or rather the language of bigoted, racist and corrupt preachers of the 18th century.
And you’re right, the bible means little to me because it cannot possibly understand how life operates in the 21st century, as I don’t understand what was in the mind of men 2000 years ago.
I am not part of any ‘gay movement’, I just think that doing no harm, living a caring and giving life and treating other people as I would want to be treated is of far more value than a dusty old collection of scriptures that preach intolerance and hate.
Keep your head in the sand, because change is coming and like the dinosaurs, (which really did exist you know) you and your brainwashed, insecure brethren will be extinct.
I’m I reading you correct? Are you demanding the Church MUST marry gay people???
If that’s the case, then these socalled militant gays are just as bad as the fanatical religious nuts when it comes to respecting rights.
No, I’m not advocating ‘marriage’ in the religious context. I am saying that all men and women are equal in the eyes of the law, so it would follow that the law should allow for equal respect if two people feel that they would like to make an informal relationship legally acknowledged by the state.
That does not mean calling it a marriage, as the term is obviously devisive and contentious to followers of religion, but it does give a same sex couple equality in regard to spousal rights.
It is perfectly clear that the church considers ‘marriage’ as the union of man and woman in the eyes of God. It’s main purpose being procreation.
And that’s fine, if a particular church feels that strongly about conducting a religious partnership ceremony, then they don’t have to do it. And that doesn’t just apply to gay couples!
But they shouldn’t be able to stop civil ceremonies, just like they can’t stop divorcees from registering their union.
Militant gays would undoubtedly disagree and would scream that they are ‘entitled’ to full scale church wedding, if they so choose. But that is just typical of militancy on both sides of the argument, they are blind to the facts and ignorant of others beliefs.
As the author of the piece above, may I bring some clarity to my final sentence.
I did not mean to infer that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, only that homosexuals have the choice whether to live a certain lifestyle, as do many others that are perceived as different. Many gay people live quiet, dignified lives away from public scrutiny, as most of us do. However, there are those who think that overt displays of their sexuality are equally valid in society. I do not claim to disparage either choice, but they are choices nevertheless.
The point being that it matters not either way, we just have to accept that people are different, they do make choices, and it isn’t for us to sit in judgement.
If you really believe that God is the one that has the final judgement, why are you so quick to condem on his behalf? Surely it is for your God to decide, not you.
And because God is love, that is why He gave us the Church and Holy Bible to follow ~ that we stop sinning and live holy lives, so to be united with Him forever. 😉
No Comment!
I don’t know about the rest of you but I was taught from a young age that Jesus loves the gays. Sing it with me…..Red & yellow, black or white, they are precious in his sight….
“Red & yellow, black or white” is talking about RACE. Being gay is a lifestyle choice by many just like its a lifestyle choice by many to be a drug addict. Yes, some people are born with the tendency of being addicted to a drug. But all will agree that the majority don’t have that tendency, and hence they “chose” to be hook.
Sick and tired of this gay garbage.
Hi. Since so man who have replied to this anonymous post seen to question if the Bible condems homosexuality (as it also does adultry, incest, abuse etc), please allow me to share a few examples opf texts in this regard:
A.
Rev. 21
“I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”
He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
…I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.
The nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there).
They shall bring the glory and the honor of nations into it. There shall by no means enter anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.”
B.
Romans 1
“The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it to them. The invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: When they knew God, they glorified him not, neither were thankful ; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, …God gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up onto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving the rewards of their errors…
as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Knowing the judgment of God, they commit things worthy of death, not only doing them, but have pleasure in doing them.”
C.
Leviticus 18:
“A man shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.
‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled. Do not defile yourselves by them: I am the Lord your God.’”
D.
2 Timothy 3
“In the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth…
these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
They shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was…
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived…
From a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
Yep, still no translation of homosexuality, only the same Old Testament ranting that could only be valid if you knew the understanding of the person writing it, which you can’t possibly.
And ‘commit things worthy of death’, really?
Dark Age hypocrites who once they start ranting just cannot help exposing their true colours.
This discussion caused me to research the income generated by gay weddings. I’m going to open a gay wedding boutique on the GT waterfront and call it “Adam & Steve”. Thanks for the idea guys!
Get in line buddy. Planning application is already in!
Dang! In that case I could open “Amanda & Eve”, but probably have the nuisance of hetero rednecks hanging around on the stoop. You know, the guys who claim to hate “homos” but sure seem to like girl action.
The ” pink dollar” generates a lot of wealth and buying power, especially in the leisure industry.
It may be time to capitalize on this and the projected growth of the Eastern districts with a gentleman only spa and sauna club.
Ironwood does have a certain ring to it.
What we really need to do, is legalize gay marijuana.
We really need to legalise the sale of gay marijuana on Sundays.
I believe that everyone should be allowed to pick their own poison; and if for some reason the same sex can please someone better than the opposite sex – then let it be, we should not judge.
However, it is also historically traceable that when worlds began to go down the paths that we are strolling down throughout the globe at this moment; civilization was generally wiped out and started anew.
If men were for men and women were for women – they would be able to create life through their sexual escapades. Although, humans are apparently not the only ones with this nature, I once had a grey male cat who quite enjoyed trying to hump his orange brother… it is a defect I am sure will be wiped clean from the earth in due course, like it always gets wiped every few thousand years.
Nature loves reproduction, it loves growing trees, abundant oil, abundant life and global synchronization with itself – we are FAR FAR FAR FAR from that, and therefore Mother Nature, the Universe, God, Allah, Jehovah, Almighty, Yahweh – whatever name you wish to call it; gets out of sync and quite upset when mankind decides to abandon laws nature in pursuit of its own, it tolerates this for thousands and thousands of years until mankind is comfortable in its wickedness…. and then turns on the rinse cycle, cleans up the situation and replenishes itself free of our abuse.
Mother Nature will go into rinse mode more as a result of the fact that we’re allowing developers to destroy all natural habitats and wetlands, because we’re overfishing or taking more conch than is allowed, because we’re poisoning the air and water with such grand feats of accomplishment such as Mount Trashmore, because every time we eat something we can’t be bothered to properly dispose of our trash and it ends up in the water, etc. Gays, I don’t think Mother Nature cares so much about. I’d worry more about Mount Trashmore and the destruction of the reefs than a few gays holding hands downtown. In other news, one more Caymanian teen was shot by a wanna-be gangbanger as a result of one dissin’ the other. Wickedness indeed…
The Bible speaks of these days. I refuse to expose my daughter and son to this type of unacceptable behavior. Innocent minds will be exposed to these acts in public. Two men/ women can not reproduce. It’s a sin to lay with your same sex. I will not cross that line with the Lord.
Well said!
By the dislikes, we obviously have a lot of people who like shoveling shit and eating kitties.
This is offensive.
Where does the Bible speak of these days? Who is asking you to cross that line – the proposal is not to make homosexual acts compulsory.
She said “exposed to these acts in public”
I don’t think the article was supporting public sodomy.
But you would let your son or daughter hang out with fornicators and adulterers. You don’t even see the hypocrisy in your comment. By the way…Jesus hated Hippocrates and loved sinners…you might actually want the read the new testament (the christian part of the bible) without the paraphrasing from your preachers.
As a Christian, yes, I agree there is the sin of hypocrisy. All sexual sins will keep us out of the kingdom if we do not repent.
God made sex to love and procreate, to give life and start families. The previous commenter is right – a man and a man, or a woman and a woman cannot give birth… so from nature herself we see it is not in harmony with Gods will.
As for “the last days” here is what Jesus prophesied, “As it was in the days of Lot: they were [caught up with] eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building; on the day when Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone rained from the sky to destroy them all. So it will be on the day the Son of Man is revealed.” (Luke 17:28-30)
Note Jesus says before He comes to judge the world, it will be just like the days of Sodom [a rise in homosexuality]
First of all, I’m sure you don’t know this person to KNOW what she/he allows THEIR children to do. I suppose you don’t see the hypocrisy in your comment either lol.
Louis CK: “Two guys are in love and they can’t get married because you don’t want to talk to your ugly kids for five f****n’ minutes?”
You’re being disrespectful to someone’s children. Immature to the max. The only hateful people I see on this site are the pro-gay marriage.
You should stop exposing yourself entirely! Public acts? Where? In my 50 odd years in visiting major cities, where gay has been open and accepted by the locals, I have never seen a public “act”. I suspect your imagination is getting the better of you. Get out of the closet! Your kids already know, they hear it at school everyday!
You miss the point. Marriage reduces the chances of sex act in public. Because marriage reduces sex. Ask every married man in the world.
And what will you do when your son or daughter says they are gay? The only reason I can think of for assuming being gay is a choice is that if it weren’t, you could be accused of discrimination. I beleive you can’t choose who you are attracted to, just as we can’t choose our parents or skin colour, but if that’s the case then all the preaching against these ‘hateful gays’ would be just seen as a mean spirited and un-Christian.
Until the Chrissers can make a credible case for “god” and “I know it is true” and “the Bible told me” does not count, then their views should be given no weight.
Fine … smh … do you want my Christian applause? 🙂 But don’t judge us, because you don’t know for certain that there is no God – unless you have so much egoic pride in you that you can never be wrong…
Evidence: You guys have never been able to give us absolute proofs that their isn’t a God.
Why not start with proving to us that there is absolutely no God before you start judging us and say what we say is nonsense???
When you get old and alone looking for that absolute proof, at least, it didnt hurt us to believe in a God of love with the hope of salvation and eternal life. It didn’t hurt us to believe and have a fulfilling life with Christ. But with no proof, you die with no hope, because you refuse to believe a love that’s eternal and transcends your mere human desires.
Peace 🙂
The oldest blackmail trick in any church!! create doubt to impose your or your churches will on the masses! People, you can believe in God or good and evil without going to church.
Believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy doesn’t hurt either.
Since you are advancing a positive, namely the existence of this “God” it really is for you to make out a case based on something better than ” what’s the harm in believing in it”. Christians never seem willing to try to state a case for the foundation of their entire belief system. I don’t believing in unicorns either and until someone makes some arguments to support their existence, I have no need to prove unicorns don’t exist.
We are a pile of chemicals interacting with each other. When the energy driving those interactions end we die. And then that’s it. There is no credible case to the contrary. It is better to know that and live life to the full in the present than life is by reference to an incredulous fairy story with no rational underpinning.
How was there all of a sudden chemicals? Where did they come from? To believe the universe was created by nothing requires more faith than to believe a God created it.
To be clear are you now advocating a case for a mere deistic god? Because a Christian needs to support a theistic proposition. So your argument does not assist your case that there is a Judeo-Christian model of a god. There is a perfectly good scientific explanation from the Big Bang to explain the chemicals which requires no help from the “god”. There is decent physics now pre-Big Bang too, but that is not relevant to this debate. You need to explain what role god has in the present day, not 13 billion years ago.
All I am going to say when the GAY RIGHTS are pass you will see who these so call Christian’s really are , going to see many people filing for divorce many wife’s husbandless and many husbands wifeless wake up its here in Cayman and its just the way it is its all over the world gays are great people how many straight people have gay friends as they can talk to them about anything and they never turn their back on you all I am saying I can’t wait for them to be legal here . the same gay people Cayman is bashing is the same ones who have your life’s in their hands I see many of them working in the hospitals here police station, pilots ,flight attendants , lawyers, firefighter, port workers, servers, bartenders, cooks, helpers, and the list goes on
And you will see who are the real Christians who stand up for God. It is foretold that the time will come when the persecution of Christians will be worldwide. Many will deny Christ, lose faith in God, grow lazy and cold, and exchange their souls for lust, greed, hate, envy, prideful self-image, gluttony, and homosexual lusts. It is happening now, and the devil is targeting young minds.
What absolute liberal spineless bile of a comment…. It’s sickening what a bunch of limp wristed fools the world is festering today. By the way, It’s easy to attack religion… it’s actually easy to sit there and point YOUR bigoted and intolerant finger at religion and those who conduct their lives within a moral boundary NOT dictated by popularity, rather by a bunch of weak, always ready to be offended, politically correct, religion bashing, traditional marriage hating bigots. Marriage is about making sound and strong FAMILY UNITS. Not about YOUR SELFISH COMFORTS and lifestyles. Stop talking shit about the christian past (which got us all here by the way), and try to respect that there are communities around the world that cherish their religious heritage and the country in which it was founded in. We can see in the united states that “civil unions” have been legal for a long time. But as we all know, this movement is never about sharing resources, and/or financial benefits insurance or otherwise. It’s always about forcing religious institutions to accept gay couples as an equal alternative under the view of the church/religion. its about forcing the church into political correctness making it illegal to view gar unions as not sinful.
Don’t be fooled about the real intentions if this gay union initiative.
What a pile of pseudo-intellectual conservative “reasoning”! To claim that religion is not at the centre of this is to willfully ignore the facts. It is easy to “attack” religion as you put it because religion has been one of the great sources of hypocrisy and bigotry throughout the ages. How dare you imply that only those who are religious conduct their lives within “moral boundaries”? If anything, living here in Cayman should have already burst that bubble long ago as we know that those who sing the loudest, clap the hardest and call Jesus’ name the most are usually the ones who stray furthest from his word. If marriage were truly about “strong family units” than heterosexuals should have been banned from getting married DECADES ago- marriage has legal status that goes beyond the church: it does impact lifestyle and access and many other privileges that couples who are not married (gay or straight) are not privy to. We may not have “tax breaks” but try not being married and having your partner end up in the hospital- without recognition of your status you will be unable to make any decisions for his/her care, and may even be denied the right to see him/her.
You are mistaken in thinking that this is about getting religious institutions to accept gay couple as equals- it is however about bringing the religious bodies down a notch in a world a separation of church and state exists for a reason. The church does not dictate who gets or doesn’t get married: the law does. So yes, the church does get knocked down a notch to where it needs to be- as a CHOICE which people make in being a part of it and not as something that gets shoved down one’s throat independently of what one’s beliefs are.
Whoever wrote the above obviously has a lot more personal issues than could be covered in a short response here. But to start – it’s not the most effective argument to condemn others regarding their intolerant, bigoted comments by posting an intolerant, bigoted comment. They also might want to look up “straw man argument.”
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent. The vast majority of people promoting the rights of gays (and others) do not care to bash your religion, your family values or anything else that you hold near and dear. They only want to promote justice and equality according to the same human rights legislation that has been accepted by virtually every civilized nation on the planet. If it is your view that those human rights are not valid, then please argue about that and not about the so-called bashing of your religious views. And please note that I have used the phrase “the vast majority.” Clearly you would prefer to look at the small number who actually hate your religious views and wish to change them, but it is a gross distortion to make it appear that ALL those who disagree with you are out to destroy your religion.
Heil Hitler.
Oh, limp wristed fools? Was that all the priests and bishops being arrested for homosexual child abuse?? The church is the biggest closet in the world!!!
Thank you!!
For one who opposes “direct control” and the such, your tone sure does depict similar “hypocrisies”.
Just calling you out on this! HYPOCRITE!
If being gay is always a choice. What about hermaphrodites? For those of you who don’t know what that is, a person born with both male and female sex organs or characteristics. Now tell me it wasn’t their choice you deluded people. It’s pretty sickening knowing people discriminate against others who have no choice in their own sexuality. It’s dark ages mentality. Get’s us nowhere. This discrimination and bigotry stems from their religious beliefs which they don’t even comprehend. We are not dictated by childish fairy tales.
I dont think any sensible would deny that there are people who are born a certain way. But pretty much THE GAY LIFESTYLE IS A CHOICE. I notice that certain within the gay community, want people to believe that they are BORN THAT WAY and therefore should be categorize like a race. That’s like saying ALCOHALICS ARE BORN THAT WAY, their feelings and emotions are JUST LIKE THAT and hence no power of FREE CHOICE.
To me, to blanket all gays BORN THAT WAY just holds no water! Sorry 🙂
I was actually pro same sex marriage but then I read your post and the use of capital letters convinced me I wás wrong!
I bet this idiot is a graduate of the “university of life”.
I think there are several different possibilities.
Some people are born to be gay, some people choose to be gay and some people have gayness thrust upon them.
I completely agree that consequences will be great if Cayman does not willingly accept this change. I personally do not understand it but I promise to keep trying. The most annoying part of arguments like this is the complete dismissal of our feelings and our evolving culture.
Cayman is not Europe and no one in the Americans, Africa or the Caribbean has ever started a world war. Before these Europeans annihilated the natives of the Americas and Africa they had already destroyed their own countries. They came here about 500 years ago and implemented the same system that brought many towards starvation in Europe. The wonderful people who lived here and Africa were classified as savages and monkeys and somehow these European had the divine right to kill and enslave them at will. That was less that 200 years ago and that sentiment still exists in the heart of many of their ancestors and it is an insult to our intelligence to think that we don’t see it.
The murder and slavery may not be as direct as it was in the past, but they simply force laws upon us that has equivalent effect. So the real threat of Cayman not going along with this change is economic slavery. That is what the author is saying and I agree.
Our plea to the ECHR should be for them to recognize the suffering of the non-European descendants in Africa, these continents and islands. Have we not suffered enough?
No one is asking for the right to discriminate against another person, we are asking for the right to let our culture evolve at a pace that we can manage without the threat of economic slavery.
Were the Europeans not allowed to change their culture and laws at their own pace without this threat? Are we asking for something different?
We do not want a European culture, we want a Caymanian culture. It that Caymanian culture that made Cayman attractive to investors and visitors. It is that Caymanian culture that leaves us hearth broken (and in some cases feeling helpless) when we see some of our people disenfranchised. We genuinely do not want to see any Caymanian disenfranchised for any reason (including LGBT rights). Do these Europeans feel the same hearth break for the suffering of our people or all reasons or just the ones who want LGBT rights?
Don’t we have the right as human beings to evolve our culture at a pace the we can manage or are we still savages and monkeys in their eyes and have to be told what to do, or else?
Awesome! Absolutely cosign.
Only difference is you are much more tolerant than I am.
My position is, I refuse to be a martyr in 2015 for 500 year sustained sins.
MLK I am definitely not, and these cheeks do not turn.
Survival is the name of the game and screw whoever feels otherwise.
– Who
The Who? A martyr? On the alter of your own ego? BTW, I can send you a couple of my gay friends who feel otherwise about survival…screw away!! I suspect you would enjoy.
I was referencing individuals and incidents such as; Dr MLK Jr., the “peaceful” Civil Rights era (marches while under attack by batons, fire-hoses, and police dogs), the immediate “grace” and “forgiveness” for Dylan Roof after his recent racist mass-murder of 9 innocent Black Americans at a church’s bible study group, etc.
These are the people and acts of “bravery” that are celebrated in the mainstream, taught in the textbooks, and upheld as the respectable standard.
I say ‘eff that. My ancestors have shed more than enough blood for me to claim my rightful place in this western world. In fact, of all the new world arrivals, they have given the most.
Anyway, how would your “gay friends” feel about you using their sexuality as a parting jab in your post? Hypocrite.
Yep, it is the culture that is the only draw for any large financial offshore business. That is why some packed up and moved to that cultural capital of Europe, Leeds.
I keep finding myself getting frustrated by the continued reference to the ‘Caymanian culture.’ What is this suppose to mean exactly? I am a Caymanian in all ways it can be considered (born in Cayman; parents/ grand parents were Caymanian etc.) and I’m constantly hearing of our religious; conservative ‘Caymanian culture.’ It is false to blanket this across the country as being ‘our’ culture. It certainly isn’t mine or that of quite a few other Caymanians I know! We talk about not wanting to disenfranchise any Caymanian- but here I find myself disenfranchised in MY own country whereby my partner is unable to gain medical coverage as my dependant as the law doesn’t recognise same- sex partnerships! There are numerous examples that I could list. I truly hope that Cayman moves at pace to address the inherent discrimination within our laws- or they may soon find that a Caymanian is the one that brings their own country before the courts to answer for this ‘culture’- much less a ‘European!’
To be a true democracy, there has to be a separation between church and state. This is a proven fact.
The eyes of the church and the eyes of the law are completely different. Church pastors should have the right to refuse to marry same sex couples if it goes against their beliefs, but in the eyes of the law, you cannot deny anyone the right to marry.
Marriage is a civil institution. Yes many people may have the marriage “ceremony” in a church but the church ceremony is not necessary – it is only a tradition. If I wanted to marry a member of the opposite sex now without a church ceremony, all I am obliged to do is apply for a marriage license and possibly have a JP conduct the “ceremony” for me.
On another note, why is it, people throw around the word “democracy” as if they know what they’re talking about or as if Cayman is a sovereign nation? Cayman is not a democracy, Cayman is an overseas territory of the UK. The UK is Constitutional Monarchy – which means that the Queen is nominally the head of government, but the Law limits her powers. Similarly, for clarity, the US is not a democracy – it is a Republic, where the power of government are vested in the Law. The US and the UK (including Cayman) may have a democratic process, however, they are not democracies. A fact of history is that pure democracies have failed everywhere they were implemented – majority tyranny being a main reason why they have failed. The reason why the powers of government were removed from the majority (or in the case of English history, removed from an absolute monarch) is to protect the rights of minorities from majority tyranny and the whims and wishes of an absolute monarch.
As for the Church’s role in all of this, there would be legislation put in place protecting the Churches from conducting “ceremonies” that go against their beliefs.
If only people would read more and expand their thinking, it would be evident that this a win/win for everyone.
Of course the Church Pastors should have the right not to marry them. That is their FREEDOM OF RELIGION. We fought so much to protect our freedoms and to practice one’s religion was at the forefront.
I say, if gays want to get married and be recognized in society, don’t infringe on the rights and freedoms of others. Qualify your own marriage officers. Leave the Chrches alone.
A lot of Christian young people, are not putting up with homophobia anymore, and it “should” scare the daylights out of deeply homophobic denominations. Hopefully, it will dawn on them that if they force their children to choose between their religion and being decent towards their friends, they might choose decency.
As Christians we are called not to force, but to persuade and teach our children.
I am thankful for my parents, teaching me to be straight and not gay. Their words of wisdom resonated 🙂
Lol…they taught you to be straight. People aren’t taught to have a sexual preference. They are, however, taught whether to be tolerant or bigoted.
Only God can judge. Don’t force anything on anyone God has a plan for us all. He created us all in his likeness. We don’t always follow his word but he still loves us.
Let’s live and let live. Put your faith in the Almighty. The Bible has to be fulfilled. Let’s encourage our brothes and sisters.
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son. Remember love is free it doesn’t cost anything.
You don’t have to like what some is doing to love them.
Cayman smile
Pathetic
God is real. He talks to me at night and tells me to follow people late at night then rewards me with coloured lights and music in my head.
Anon’s description of the substance and history of the Christian faith exposes him as an ignorant fool.
Firstly, Christianity tolerates unbelievers. The final book of the New Testament contains an unequivocal declaration of tolerance: “He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still …” Rev 22:11. Even a cursory examination of Christian scripture clearly reveals that the admonitions on sin are from Christians to Christians. Throughout the New Testament Christians are commanded to be merciful and tolerant to those outside the faith.
Secondly, the implication that Christians encouraged slavery is also bogus. In the book of Philemon the apostle Paul reminded
Philemon that his slave, Onesimus, was to be treated as a “beloved brother”. If Anon would bother to put down his joint and/or Greeny and actually read a history book he would find that Europeans found the African system of slavery in place, when they arrived. Europeans bought African slaves from the other Africans who enslaved them. (They were often fattened up by their fellow African captors to be eaten as “long pig”. those fortunate enough to be sold to Europeans escaped this fate.) The unfortunate practice of slavery in the new world was primarily opposed by Christian abolitionists in England and the United States. (Try googling Wilberforce). Slavery still is practiced in Africa today. It is specifically approved by Islam. There is a long history of black African slaves being exported to Arab countries. The men were castrated and worked, and the women utilized for sexual pleasure. Any offspring were killed. Anon is criticizing the wrong religion re: slavery.
Thirdly, It is an undisputable fact that any country under the sway of Christianity is better off for that fact. Science, Medicine, Engineering, and the like are founded in the principles of an ordered creation inherent in Christian philosophy. Bacon, Mendel, Pascal, Newton, and numerous other scientists were committed Christians (Including the Catholic priest who suggested the “big bang” theory).
Most hospitals would not exist but for Christians who founded them. The idea that women have worth and dignity is founded in Christian theology. The genealogy of Christ in the book of Matthew takes care to note an adulteress (Tamar), a prostitute (Rahab), and a foreign woman (Ruth) in Christ’s lineage, giving due honor to these women. In the Old Testament, Deborah is likewise afforded due honor as a Judge of Israel.
In short, Anon’s characterization of Christianity is seriously inaccurate, and obviously has been tainted by a generous amount of secular materialist bullshit. There is Christian hypocrisy, but this fact actually proves Christianity’s genuine value. Oscar Wilde was a celebrated author and playwright who ultimately renounced his homosexuality, and became a Christian. He once observed that ” hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue.”
Finally, Anon may personally accept homosexuality if he likes, but I point out that the police power of the state is properly exercised to protect the health, safety, and general welfare of the citizenry. There is ample imperical evidence to suggest that homosexuality is strongly associatited with mental illnesses, physical diseases, shortened lifespan, population decline, and family dysfunction. Homosexuality affects the health and happiness of the society in which it is practiced, just as much as does reckless driving, poor sewage practices, or knocking off little old ladies. Therefore, the state should have every right to regulate it. In bringing up Christianity Anon sets up (and mischaracterizes) a “straw man” opponent so that he does not have to deal with the very real harmful effect that homosexual practice imposes on society. His arguments are disingenuous and I urge my fellow readers to disregard them
Bravo. Factual, concise and accurate. CNS’s Featured Comment of the next decade.
PIN IT!!
We follow the bible to a T, women would have no rights, rape would be tolerated ( dueteronomy 22:23 ) and homosexuality would met with violence and stoning (leviticus 20:13)
Christianity like all other religions are nothing more than 2000 year old goat people scripture. It amazes me how people can still believe this nonsense. You have to draw a line between fantasy and reality. It promotes nothing but war and limits our progress in advancing further as a country. Religion serves no purpose but to hault our progress as humanity.
Hmmm … Follow the Bible to the T … But do you understand the Bible. The violence you said occurred in the Bible happen in the Old Testament. You see the Bible is divided into Old and New Testament.
Christians are to follow Jesus words in the New Testament. The Old points to the New, and the New says that all the laws in the Old are fulfilled by Christ commandment to Love.
So it amazes me how people like yourself don’t understand the Bible, cherry pick passages from the Old to portray Christians or God a certain way without understand what was said in the New.
My advice – Before you start condemning the Bible, at least understand it full. 😉
Jesus specifically said all the laws are to be followed and that the old testament is not to be ignored. Mathew 5:17. I know enough of the bible to realise it’s nonsense. This isn’t about religion this is about giving people their human right to choose their way of life. This is about detaching oursevles from such dark age mentality that allows us to hate and discriminate against our fellow humans.
Read Matthew 5:17 … Where does it say Christians must keep the law of Moses? I do see the words Jesus came to” fulfill the law”…
Yes, I think you need Bible course 101 ;)>
I think he is confusing Christians with violent Muslims and Jews. These Jews are stuck in the Old Testament, and these Muslims have a book that is as well full of judgments…
So such people are capable of doing violence and feel well justified.
But as for a Christian now to do or promote violence, he would have to be ignoring what the teachings of Christ in the New Testament; especially, on forgiveness, love, and turning the other cheek. No where in the New Testament did Jesus tell His followers to convert others by using force.
Sadly some called themselves Christians and act like the violent Muslims or Jews in the East, as if Jesus never existed.
Does this qualify as an argument? smh
“Firstly, Christianity tolerates unbelievers…”
“Christianity” may tolerate unbelievers, however, “Christians” tend not to be so tolerable.
There was quote by Mahatma Gandhi, “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
Well said Gandhi.
I like his rice also.
Whether you accept my argument or not, the sadness in you repost is evident by your immediate recourse to scriptures that say a lot, but in reality mean nothing.
You refer to many Christian icons, bible passages etc…. In your reply, but you appear to be blind, (or ignorant) to the historical facts. You mistakingly place yourself in the theoretical interpretation of what was apparently said and done, instead of the actual practical interpretation undertaken by religious zealots since the bible was apparently written in the Dark Ages.
To equate modern thinking and culture with that of people 100 years ago is difficult enough, but to make the leap 1500 years is just plain stupid. Christianity and the written bible was undoubtably forged in a time of extreme violence and disregard for any form of human rights. If you disagreed with the Pope, you died, no further discussion. In fact, if you said or did anything that was interpreted as unchristian, you died, normally by fire, but certainly in the most horrible circumstances.
So how does that equate with your assertions and interpretations? To deny the historical record of religious inspired imprisonment, torture, mutilation and death is clearly the mark of a delusional fool.
And to even try and convince people that Christianity is merciful is the most ludicrous of all statements.
People in this part of the world suffered massively at the hands of Christian invaders. Most of the native peoples of the Caribbean, central South America and North America were subjected to genocide by generations of Christianity inspired zealots who murdered their way across continents in search of gold, territory and power. Slavery may well have been abolished with thanks to Christian activists, but nearly all slave owners were practising Christians who forced their unfortunate captives into Christianity and out of their African religions, traditions and culture.
Look into those you have quoted as the esteemed scientists of Christianity. Whilst their genius is clear for all to see, take a look into their investments, property ownership and slavery records, then come back with your enlightened viewpoint.
But again, I refer you to the times in which this happened. Human life was cheap, slavery wasn’t illegal and everyday life was dictated by the blind religious belief that they were on the side of God.
I note your biased remarks and observations of Oscar Wilde. Wilde was an Irish Protestant by birth and a promiscuous gay man who had a particular passion for young men. He was a convicted sodomist and was sentenced to two years in Reading Gaol.
Throughout his short life he remained fascinated by Catholicism and its ritual, he referred to himself as a ‘violent Papist’. He often attended mass and had a Papal audience whilst in Rome with Robbie Ross.
Wilde was accepted into the Catholic Church on his deathbed when on the 28th November 1900 an English priest, (Father Dunne) gave a conditional baptism and anointed him during brief spells of lucidity. Wilde died two days later, never renouncing his homosexuality and he remains an icon and martyr to his followers, gay and straight.
I never said that I accept homosexuality, as a heterosexual male it goes completely against my natural inclination. But that doesn’t mean that I have to be a delusional fool and pretend that gay people aren’t human beings that need love and respect the same as I do. I do not subscribe to the view that gay people are sick or suddenly become gay, but I also don’t subscribe to the view that it is ‘normal’ human behaviour. Until we are offered unrefutable evidence that homosexual behaviour is a medical condition, I think we should just accept difference and get on with our lives.
With reference to an earlier contributor. To compare hermaphrodites with homosexuality is clearly wrong, the generation of two sets of sexual organs or other physical tendencies is clearly a medical issue that is far removed from this debate.
In regard to the main argument of gay marriage, do I think it necessary to define a loving partnership with the religious term ‘marriage’? Answer, no I do not. I think it is deliberately inflammatory, provocative and totally unnecessary as it does not bring with it a total and indisputable parity with a heterosexual marriage. I do think that gay people should have the same legal rights and acknowledgements, but it should remain in legal terms as a civil partnership.
Anyway, to conclude. Your reply is an obviously biased account of the Christian religion. It makes no reference to accepted history, you only forward 2000 year old quotations and myths written down by Europeans 500 years after they were apparently made as a rule of fact.
You deny your own heritage by denying Christian complicity in the genocide of native peoples and African slavery, and you continue to indulge in the same backwards thinking that saw innocent people sent to their deaths because they were ‘unclean in the eyes of God’.
There is no conclusive proof of a link between homosexual behaviour and widespread illness, most serious illness is transmitted by human contact so in fact we are all at risk, especially if we indulge in unprotected sexual relations. But then again, the Catholic Church bans condoms, go figure.
No my friend, you and your unstable friends are holding on to a belief that simply doesn’t exist, and never has done. Read more history, balance the facts and stop thinking that you are the only ones that are right. Try being loving people with open minds and hearts, you don’t need an ancient book or a good story to live a kind and giving life, you just need to find goodness in yourself and others.
How can anyone believe that it was/is possible to translate ‘scripture’ thousands of years down the line? Old testament, new testament, it doesn’t matter. We can’t even get history correct from 100+ years ago of translations, how can one feel it is ‘wise’ to believe and follow what was written 1500+ years ago?
Careful, that is how they prove its gods word (that is survived for so long without being corrupted….but then there is so many ways to translate so many words…sounds truthful to me.
This gentleman’s comment seems to be very misinformed. With so much access to information on the internet and in libraries today, no one should be writing such nonsense as this! I guess this is the result of depending on History Channel and angry University professors to gain all of one’s knowledge of history. And why does each and every person who regurgitates such rubbish all sound alike? It’s almost as if they’re reading from a script. Something tells me that he’s very upset with Christans too—so much for “tolerance”.
Anonymous guy—whoever you are… here’s some advice: You have to understand something/someone correctly before you earn the right to critique it/them. And another thing: the people who are mesmerised at your “opinion” has about the same level of knowledge (or less) than you do on the topic.
P.S.
Sorry for my intolerance
Here Here! Repeat over and over again. Exactly what right thinking human beings world wide know and understand well. The nonsensical misinformation is getting very old. The so called “open minded” have limited arguments on this subject which at the end of the day show they are not so “open minded” after all.
Enlighten us please…..
Oh, we’re talking about understanding now are we?
Well, I understand this:
The slaughter of the ancient pagans by Christians, temples destroyed, philosophers killed and children executed for playing with the remains of statues. Thousands murdered.
The Norman Invasion of Britain, a papal war, William having the blessing and banner of the Holy See. Thousands dead, a population subjugated for centuries.
The four Crusades, 1095-1291. Commanded by the Pope and responsible for at least 20 million victims across the Middle East and Turkey.
The heretic purges, including the Spanish Inquisition, responsible for 600 years of religion inspired torture and death. Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths.
The Protestant burnings ordered by ‘bloody’ Queen Mary, 283 burned alive.
The conquistadors and the anhilalation of the native peoples of the Caribbean and the Americas. Millions, (possibly as many as 60 million) were exterminated by Columbus, Cortez, Pizarro and their numerous followers, all in the name of the Pope and Jesus Christ.
The Spanish Armada. King Philips disasters us invasion attempt to take the apostate English nation for the Pope. Thousands dead and injured, mainly Spanish.
The Puritans. Both at home in England and in America, these Christian fanatics brought terror and death. Millions of native Americans were killed by settlers and their small pox. The disease being justified as ‘Gods will’.
The American frontier wars, driven on by fanatical Christian preachers who encouraged the further destruction of the ‘savages’. It is thought that over 150 million native Indians from the Americas were destroyed between 1500 and 1900, many by the hand of man, most by the hand of God, (small pox).
These are only a few examples, add into the mix African slavery, the centuries old persecution of the Jews, the European religious wars, including the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, the 30 years war, the French Wars of religion, the Schmalkaldic War etc…..
All of the above, and this is a mere fraction of the thousands of actual events over 2000 years, were directed by Christian religious beliefs and its leaders. Literally hundreds of millions of people dead in the name of Christianity, how is that a tolerant and forgiving religion?
You must be so proud.
Do yourself a favour and read something a little more accurate than a 1500 year old collection of stories. Look at your own history, identify the cost of your beliefs and then tell me that I’m misinformed.
Gots to recognize it.
The author wrote an unbalanced piece with a basic understanding of religious history.
And now can we get back to foreclosures, John Gray High School that looks like it’s in a poverty stricken country, Ezzard Miller having to BEG Finance Committee to spend money on North Side Primary School, the non-sensical Policy of closing all the Dept of Children District Offices and moving the Social Workers away from the communities they serve, the non-sensical idea of removing family assistance from the Social Worker to a group of technocrats who do not know or understand the social or economic reasons why people are seeking assistance, to the fact that we cannot afford three (3) airports and a dock in one (1) 4 year term of governance. Gay rights – seriously! I wish that was the only problem we had – we would literally be problem free. Why? Because we HAVE to accept it, if not put your money where your mouth is AND VOTE TO NOT BE GOVERNED BY UK. Until then, go help a family in need!
Country with no plan, I could not agree with you more!
To all the haters who will surely start shortly on here, the corruption, education system and crime are currently much more serious issues for Cayman than what two consenting people do behind closed doors. I suggest you vent that anger at the people who can do something about that rather than get hot under the collar by something that is never going to affect you directly, it is a waste of your time and energy to think any differently. Unless of course you are afraid of what is in your own closet, but even then, just let it out, you will feel free and better at once!
Thank you for inspiring further research. I always wondered why homosexuals were called Sodomites:
The Sodomites came to Lot’s house with the secret knowledge that they were to be murdered. Lot pretended to be a good host by offering his virgin daughters. This, apparently, pissed off the Sodomites even more, so instead, they gang-raped the two archangels ( Lot’s other guests disguised as human men). It was nothing to do with love, but a violent protest against the sin of poor hospitality and violence against foreigners.
Jesus has nothing to say about Sodomy, but a whole lot to say about poor hosts.
In Biblical context, this was not an act of homosexuality but of contempt to the host.
In those days it was OK to enslave, rape, murder etc., but God help you if you were a poor host!
Ezekiel 16:49 “Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.”
Sounds like Cayman is in some deep ca-ca here. And if Caymanians can’t look at that verse and see the parallels in our own society, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
To all the naysayers:
Same sex unions are the least of our problems here in the Cayman Islands. We have bigger fish to fry; like how we’re going to get people back to work…like how we’re going to get the price of gas down…like how we’re going to get the cost of groceries down…
It’s time for the Cayman Islands to get into the 21st century, our ancient and small minded way of thinking must be kicked out the door and replaced with an updated and open mindset.
Let’s open the door for a new modern Cayman with a smart, open minded populace!
question for caymanian christains:
what would jesus do?
end of discussion.
Possibly he would ask why a “Christian nation” runs a parasitic economy taxing taxes from other countries which would go to help the poor.
Jesus would burn the place down
I would have more regard for the poster of this nonsensical article if they had chosen to identify themselves by standing by their comment instead of posting as Anonymous. When you have views that are as strong as those expressed in this article, you should be ready to stand by it by at least letting us know that you are not a computer generated robot.
Everyone has the right to be stupid but you are abusing that privilege.
I wish you people would worry more about the your own kids and what they are turning into, thugs, gangsters. I wish you would not turn your head when your husband or boyfriend is molesting your child, I wish you would worry more about what this government is doing to this country. I wish you would worry more about adultery, I wish you would worry more about the people mostly woman getting beaten by their husbands or boyfriends. What two people do behind closed doors is this business. Put your energy into your own family!!
And that would prove exactly what, that you can read a name of someone you will never get to meet? Well that’ll make the piece more valid then won’t it, you anonymous fool.
And I do stand by my comment, and no, I’m not a robot, satisfied?
This was a good read.
However, I have a sincere question for the author (or anyone else who cares to reply).
Do you consider the current atmosphere in Cayman in relation to gays and “gay rights” as one in dire need of change?
If not, then why rock the boat with unilateral legislation?
Furthermore, as was done with medical malpractice in the Cayman Islands with the advent of “Health City”, I suggest we stipulate a cap on the amount of damages one can be awarded for any legal action in this regard. Say … $100.00?
Or are we saying that a badly replaced human heart or other organ is of lesser importance than a couple’s marital / civil status?
– Who
We could also limit any damages of Caymanians replaced by expats to $100,
Or are we saying that a badly replaced human heart or other organ is of lesser importance than a Caymanian being replaced with a hard working expat?
We appreciate your attempts to contribute to the discussion, however, we have designated corners to facilitate personal axe grinding. Right this way sir …
– Who
Just proves the argument, in your eyes it is ok to discriminate against others, but not against youself
Can’t get more selfish than that
No matter what the outcome on this issue we will end up with masses of people being discriminated against. The fact that some folks fail to acknowledge a particular side of the discrimination does not negate its existence.
In regards to selfishness, those that are pressing so hard for these changes are stellar examples thereof.
Anyway, do you care to address the question posed in my initial comment?
– Who
Shame on CNS for pulling a ‘Legge’ here. Siding with a mentality that goes against Caymanian traditions and beliefs by helping to promote the ‘gay agenda’. Do you not realize the power you have as media? We are not interested in a ‘debate’ so stop trying to stir the pot. We don’t want that lifestyle here at all and you need to respect that. When you were given ‘Caymanian Status’, it meant that you became one of ‘us’. So where is your loyalty? You’re taking that all for granted by jumping on the ‘gay agenda’ bandwagon just for the sake of selling sensationalized news. Sorry to say but that is akin to biting the ‘teat’ that’s been feeding you all these years.
Over the last few decades, Cayman has compromised the wishes and beliefs of the people for the sake of trade, tourism and commerce. Do we now need to compromise even further by making ourselves ‘uncomfortable’ in our own country just to accommodate those who do not respect ‘our’ beliefs?
Is that really fair?
I guess it’s the hypocracy of your stance. You are against homosexuality for some lines in the bible, but yet welcome and encourage the turtle farm, which is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, and run your economy on banking, which the bible tells us is not only wrong but punishable by death.
FYI: Neither the Bible nor religion was mentioned in the above. Caymanians are generally ‘moraled’ people despite being Christians or not. What you’re asking us to do is to forsake our morals and our beliefs and lay out a welcome mat for people who do everything we do not believe in. That’s asking too much and we ‘should’ have an opportunity to oppose it. Who cares what some international court of human rights (a.k.a. ‘gay rights sympathizers’) says? What about ‘OUR’ rights?
You mean your rights to insert yourself in other peoples rights
You mean moraled (whatever that means) of you men who went around the region / world impregnating women while their wives stayed on the island bringing up his other children…Sooo there is no corruption or Immorality in Cayman.
I’m sorry, who is “we” bobo? I want the debate. I don’t care if we allow that lifestyle or not. Don’t pretend to speak for all Caymanians. Last I heard, we don’t live in a dictatorship. Nothing to do with loyalty.
well said. I’m Caymanian, and I sometimes feel embarrassed to call myself Caymanian when people like this pretend to speak for all of us.
Caymanian “christians” will respect this decision as much as their religious beliefs are respected. 0%
Bravo, you hit the nail on the head on every point!
In response to the featured comment. That is probably the most intelligent response I will ever see re this human rights issue and I agree 1000% with every paragraph except for the last paragraph and I feel I must correct the writer. Gays have no choice in being gay just like straight people have no choice in being straight you are born the way you were meant to be. Period!!!
Gays have no choice in being gay just like straight people have no choice in being straight you are born the way you were meant to be. Period!!!
Alrighty then. I am sure this also true:
The cow jumped over the moon.
The little dog laughed,
To see such sport,
And the dish ran away with the spoon
So lame.
If being gay is a choice why would anyone choose it? bulled for it through school, no rights, you could be fired from your job. And then you can get beaten or murdered for it.
Yeah they obviously choose it
Perhaps you can point to the time in your life that you chose to love someone of the opposite sex. You know who you are attracted to, it’s not a conscious choice made in 5th Grade, everyone who likes boys on the left, girls on the right….it may take a while to realize you are different when everything and everyone around you says what you should like, but it is not a choice,
Excellent article. I am in 99.9 per cent agreement. Where I disagree is In your final sentence where you use the word “choice”. Homosexuality is not a choice: he or she is born that way and have no choice in the matter.
I do not think people are “born that way”. I have seen many people “turn that way” because of being abused and molested while they were at a very maluable age of between 2 to 5 years old.
And I have at least examples directly linked to five (5) such people; both male and female.
So; while they are free to do as they please, I will never accept that any person is born “queer”.
The word you were looking for is malleable. Though you are correct to say that some who were abused and/or molested at a malleable age “turn” gay, there are far more who were simply born gay. Science has proven that there is a genetic link to being born gay.
OK. Enlighten the world with your Yahoo science proving it then. Please do not keep the world waiting.
Waiting….
Waiting….
Waiting so more.
Oh, that’s what intelligent humans already know.
The correct spelling is malleable. Sorry.
My best friend growing up was gay but didn’t realize it until later in his teens. He asked me in confidence one time why gay men were always hitting on him. I said that sometimes he came across very feminine and he got extremely mad at me saying he was not gay. Many beautiful women were attracted to him and many asked me to hook them up with him. He didn’t see women the way I did and that confused the hell out of me. We even went on a double date with my girlfriend and her sister…his date really was putting on the moves and nothing. Eventually he realized that men turned him on and not women…NOT HIS CHOICE.
What an excellent viewpoint.
its called the bible and yes we believe in it and just because the rest of the world is gone mad doesn’t mean Cayman should.
You believe in a fictional book written thousands of years ago to control society, and the rest of the world who are actually getting with the times have gone mad? Okay then. Try let your tiny little brain evolve and you might understand and get somewhere in today’s world.
Brave, eh? Feel better now?
We? There you go, just as the viewpoint says, thinking you have the right to speak for “we” or us all. You don’t. If you are talking “I” that is great! I respect your view, I really do. If you want your beliefs listened to you have to listen to other views and even if you don’t like them you should also at least respect other people’s right to have different views . If you dont, why on earth should I or anyone else listen to your dictorial rants? For that’s what they are, a desire to control our thoughts in a way acceptable to you, rather than a perhaps constructive discussion
Amen (erm), Brother. Excellent comment. By this time tomorrow there will be about 100 comments from frothing at the mouth Old Testament zealots soaking you with their bile based on just those passages of scripture they like to quote and not all the other ones that justify all sorts of evil things like slavery and the subjugation of women or those that are totally contradictory in nature. Truly, the Devil can cite scriptures for his own purpose.
Anonymous says:
28/07/2015 at 12:40 pm
“Truly, the Devil can cite scriptures for his own purpose.”
Congratulations on your perfect example hater.
I wasn’t far off it, the number of bile spewing comments is the usual healthy number in this loving “Christian country” -85 comments mostly nasty.
I cannot agree more, militant gays have no place any more than militant christians. Both do their communities more harm than good. The Westboro Baptist Church is a militant Christian organistaion known for spewing vile hatred and bigotry to anyone and everyone they can, I would hate to be thought of as belonging to any organistaion that accepts them in its fold. Live and let live – who I love, who I choose to spend time with and how I choose to spend that time is my business and no-one else’s. Cayman is a lovely island with a mostly welcoming and loving community – both local and ex-pat. Don’t let a vocal minority, hiding behind selective arguments, spoil all that is good. Cayman has more pressing problems – crime, unemployment, racism and corruption. Religion, and acts done in the name of religion, have caused so much harm and misery throughout history – it’s time for Cayman to join the modern world.
It is already here, Jeff Webb, favourite son of the soil got the modern world spotlight firmly shone onto Cayman.