MPs debate planned vote on ganja and lottery

| 08/12/2022 | 117 Comments

(CNS): A government motion to hold a referendum on introducing a national lottery and decriminalising cannabis was debated in parliament on Wednesday, stirring up different views across both sides of the House. However, the motion succeeded and the government now intends to draft a referendum bill in the New Year. But the motion only proposes a vote asking whether or not to end criminal records for consumption and possession of a ‘small’ quantity of ganja, as well as whether or not to have a single legal lottery.

The proposed referendum does not deal with the question of legalising the consumption of cannabis. Premier Wayne Panton said that decriminalisation was currently the only option, given Cayman’s international obligations as a British Overseas Territory, and noted that there could still be consequences for consumption and possession, such as an administrative fine.

The premier said the main aim of decriminalisation was to prevent people from having criminal records, which has proved to be a barrier to finding work and a source of discrimination against many Caymanians.

On the subject of a national lottery, Panton explained that the aim is to break down organised crime, which is controlling an explosion in illegal gambling, by offering a legal alternative that is controlled and regulated by the government. He said the vote will come alongside the Gambling (Amendment) Bill, 2022, which significantly increases the penalties surrounding the local numbers racket.

The ganja and gambling issues will both be on the government-initiated referendum, which is set out under the Constitution as a matter of national importance. This means the two questions will pass or fail based on 50% plus one of the voter turnout, as opposed to people-initiated referendums, which require 50% plus one of the entire electorate. But this also means that the result is not binding and government can view the poll only as advisory, especially if the result is very close.

The wording of the questions will be defined in a referendum bill expected to be brought to parliament in the first quarter of next year, which will also set a date for that national vote. The premier said the projected cost of a referendum is estimated to be around CI$1.1 million, but the government will not be campaigning to influence voters as they wanted the people to make this decision.

However, some of the MPs who spoke during the debate indicated that they would be campaigning for a ‘yes’ for both questions.

But the opposition member for Red Bay, Sir Alden McLaughlin, who did most of the talking for the PPM members on the issues, raised his concerns about the ambiguity of the motion, which he pointed out would form the basis for the actual referendum bill. He questioned what a “small quantity” of ganja was and how that would be defined, and argued that having consequences for possession of ganja seemed to defeat the purpose.

He called for the legalisation of consumption and personal use possession and urged the government to amend the motion. He pointed out that decriminalisation was “a difference without a distinction” and that government should ask a clear and precise question.

In the end, most of the opposition supported the motion. McLaughlin abstained because he said the motion itself was fundamentally flawed but said he supported the principle of a referendum on these issues.

During the course of the debate, McKeeva Bush (WBW) called on the government to go much further with the gambling issue and suggested that a referendum on that topic was a bad idea. Bush has filed a motion to amend the gambling legislation further to legitimise all of the existing regional lotteries rather than create a single legal national lottery.

Bush said that a single lottery would not be able to compete with the significant number of lotteries from all over the region that people can play illegally in Cayman each and every day. He asked what would happen if the referendum for a lottery failed, as there would be enormous backlash from many churches.

Several members of the government benches, including Minister Bernie Bush (WBN), wanted to go further than decriminalising ganja and spoke of the need to allow people to cultivate a limited amount of plants. Otherwise, the cannabis that people use will still be entering the country illegally and the profit will still be going elsewhere.

Despite the limitations on the proposed vote, a number of MPs said it was nevertheless a small step in the right direction on both issues and would put the decision in the hands of the people.

Panton said that if legalising ganja was an option for the government, he would not object to it but the country is subject to a UN convention restricting how far it can go. Acknowledging the range of views held by MPs about both issues, he argued that at this stage the motion did not need to be precise because the details of the questions will “naturally fall down the road” when the referendum bill is prepared.

The motion was to outline broadly the government’s intention to hold the vote, Panton told the House, and to gain the support of parliament to go ahead and prepare the bill. “Government does not want to be too prescriptive at this point over what the questions will be,” he said, adding that the first step was to set out the resolution for parliament’s approval.

Following the vote, which carried with just one abstention and one absentee after Minister Jay Ebanks MP was called away, the premier presented the gambling amendment bill. But the parliament was adjourned before the conclusion of another fiery debate, in which McLaughlin accused the government of “trying to put as many Caymanians in jail as possible”.

See the debate on the motion on CIGTV below:


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Category: Laws, Politics

Comments (117)

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  1. Anonymous says:

    I would like a referendum on cruise ships, Governor’s House and everyone gets to elect the Premier and Deputy Premier.

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  2. Anonymous says:

    Decriminalizing small possession amounts is a good first step and should be paired with the expungement of past records and fines. But without a sanctioned local supplier, it comes with an implicit economic invitation to the smugglers, gangs, and dealers that are importing everything else from elsewhere, and that further erodes already basement level confidence in maritime border interdiction efforts. Without quality local suppliers, we might as well disband the Coast Guard.

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    • Anonymous says:

      Most folks are going with the decriminalization of a portion of ganja and the clearing of its convicting consequence.

      Yes, set the youth and older adults up for hiring success. If there is local production of cannibis, it should be processed into CBD oil for the respective patients. Food security is important, so space for food over a cannibis farm is priority.

      The CICG are also tasked with preventing illegal firearms, south american cake, human trafficking among other prohibitions into our country.
      As you should know the local Coast guard is tasked at protecting this country.

      More than 3 say the solution to smuggling the narcotic (cannibis) is to just decriminalize it,
      or else there is nothing stopping the organize crime syndicates from sailing more weight our way.
      I have to disagree with this pillowcase and sit up and say keep the pressure on CICG & RCIPS.

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  3. Anonymous says:

    One man’s lottery is another man’s church raffle…

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  4. Anonymous says:

    Why would the churches be against the lottery, when they all support their own Raffles.

    It would be a contradictory position being against gambling when your own church organises its own form of gambling

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  5. Anonymous says:

    Four men on alcohol start a fight.
    wheras
    Four men on weed start a band.

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  6. Al Catraz says:

    It’s pretty weird that the churches have some kind of moral objection to gambling. Unlike, say, failing to love your neighbor, taking care of the poor, visiting prisoners, and a whole laundry list of do’s and don’ts, there doesn’t seem to be much in the Bible about gambling. Now, sure, there are things about greed and love of money, but you can turn that into an argument against expecting to be paid for working if you want to. But I simply can’t figure out why churches would object to a business which often takes money for nothing in return. Hmm….

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    • Anonymous says:

      Get crime under control before you start even thinking about all this other nonsense.

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      • Anonymous says:

        A large amount of crime is brought about by drugs. What’s good about that?

        Is this something that the Premier thinks is O.K.?

  7. Anonymous says:

    The Lottery…. A tax designed specifically for the poor🤔🤔🤔

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  8. Anonymous says:

    Those who smoke weed but refuse to register to vote will not be able to participate in any Referendum. Just saying’….

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  9. Anonymous says:

    Why have a referendum which cost over CI$1M? Why not simply conduct a legitimate poll EVERY election day?
    Us voters could be given a secondary questionnaire with multiple Y/N questions to answer during the voting process. Counting could take place in the days afterwards to provide genuine input into upcoming decisions/directions. Much less cost, may encourage more voter participation & registration, no additional disruption to the economy, etc.

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  10. JTB says:

    Given the inadequacies of our parliamentary representation, this is probably a good move. On the two specific questions, they are at heart concerned with similar issues – should the law penalise activities which a large proportion of the population deem to be acceptable? Government, policing and the law only work by consent, and it seems on these two subjects many people do not consent.

  11. Anonymous says:

    So Govt is pursuing the idea that to compensate against the cost of living one can buy a ticket/tickets, enter a lottery and if unsuccessful smoke a joint /joints (small ones) to opaque the misery of not coming up golden in a scratch for cash venture. 💸😫

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    • Anonymous says:

      If this is all they can come up with dog done eat our supper. What a bunch of morons. We really need to dump them.

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  12. Anonymous says:

    One of the arguments being used for gambling is stating it is currently organised crime and the solution is for government to take it over with a lottery!

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    • Anonymous says:

      I wish that the stupid representatives would realize that the robberies are not connected to illegal numbers. Their are those who just won’t work and those who are encouraged by NAU handouts. Take the time to do an investigation/survey of the families/individuals who are collecting money every month or are given vouchers to shop/spend weekly or bi-weekly. Stop encouraging laziness. Some of those receivers are able-bodied persons, who are baby machines, drug users and pushers only making excuses to collect from NAU. Do a proper assessment and put them to work, that way they wouldn’t find time to harass and steal.
      Bring an national lottery and fund education, health and proper security.

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  13. Anonymous says:

    Referendums are a good idea and the subjects (questions to be determined) are certainly worthy of public direction.
    Please use the opportunity to also ask the country about development heights limitations; ask us about relocating the Governor and granting that beach and land lot back to the people; ask us about Sunday trading; ask us about leaf blowers (please..ban leaf blowers)

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    • Anonymous says:

      No one seems to be listening on the leaf blower issue. It is a real nuisance, where I live it is every single day and some start at 0500. As a cyclist also I often have to ride through a cloud of dust while a leaf-blower blows crap into the road. They just don’t care. What is even more stupid is strata paying gardeners to blow the same stuff back and forth each week. I rake my yard and find it way more efficient and easy to gather up for composting.

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      • Anonymous says:

        Oh Lord knows it rough.
        The people that do these jobs
        work earnestly for every dollar.
        They will eat too, Thanks be to God.
        Strata is one heck of a bill I was told.
        Where is some cool places to cycle here on island?

      • Anonymous says:

        Agree that 2 cycle blowers should migrate to electric asap. CIG should offer a environmental loan program to qualifying landscape licensees. Town and Communities Law prevents even the 2 cycle guys from starting at 5am…just be the person to say something and report it. Too few understand or value their right to sleep, peace and quiet, or bother to oppose those that don’t care/know the law. Even in big metro cities there are laws that seem to have gone widely out of practice during the building bonanza of the last 30-odd years. Frankly, some car/motorcycle mufflers and jake brake dump trucks also present routine audible nuisance outside of hours, but nobody is stopping them or writing the tickets…

        • Anonymous says:

          Um, in our case the leaf blowers are frequently at the small government facility next door, always start at 5 am and we do repeatedly complain to CIG and person in charge of the place but absolutely nothing changes.

    • JTB says:

      Please, please, please ban leaf blowers

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    • Anonymous says:

      At the very least, please ban leaf blowers on weekends!

  14. Anonymous says:

    I will be voting no to the cannabis. We have enough stoned people walking around Cayman. Many of whom work here.

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    • Anonymous says:

      “Keeping it illegal does not stop consumption.

      It only keeps it lucrative for drug lords to smuggle along with guns.”

      Quoted from a brilliant comment on a facebook post regarding this. No one is forcing you to smoke it.

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    • Al Catraz says:

      I agree that there are enough of them walking around, but I would vote for giving them a ride instead.

    • Anonymous says:

      8:50 pm
      Where I live the sent of ganja was a problem. The workers smoke before they hit the road in the mornings, so they cause accidents going to work. Test them and prove how dangerous they prove to be on the road. There is no need to import those people here in the name of Labourers.
      Clean this country by checking the court list. Law abiding permit holders shouldn’t be in the courts.

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  15. Anonymous says:

    Because we all know gambling and drug use improve the quality of life and chances of success…..

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  16. Anonymous says:

    Careful Wayne…i think these boys are setting you up.

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  17. MERVYN CUMBER says:

    Surely, there are more important local issues that need attention now, rather than these “borderline” suggestions for expensive referenda?

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    • Anonymous says:

      You are right Mervyn. This lot is hell bent on destroying the future of Cayman. 30 storeys ghetto apartments, gambling houses and marijuana outlets on every corner, an increase number of stick ups which will only get worse, I think the no.1 question on the referendum should be “Are you satisfied with the way the PACK of Wolves” are destroying our island home and our children and grandchildren future? No 2 should be ” how do you feel about sending them all on sabbatical?”

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    • Anonymous says:

      There are. But this is the feel good factor behind politics. Give the people something they want while the platitudes continue on the important issues. Don’t get me wrong, I’m supportive of both motions in principle at least, but we do need hto see action on the important issues too.

  18. Anonymous says:

    What happens when employers are required by insurers that employees are required to perform drug tests ?

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  19. Anonymous says:

    Is Ganga and a lottery really something that our government believe will benefit a Caymanian with a family and no where else to call home, but Cayman??In my humble opinion, I don’t think so. One would have to be blind to not notice that there are a lot of expats who are literally on island as a quick way to hit their “fire”number. Once they hit that number, they will retire (many before 50 y/o). They will have zero mortgages to pay at that point and many have purchased multiple properties so they have rental incoming flowing through. SPVs will of course be set up so their earnings will be protected from tax. They will move back to the US, Canada or UK, buy a practical home(for far less than what they would pay for a home on Island), and do as they please far away from the island that made them rich. Meanwhile Caymanians slave daily to be able to afford to live on their expensive island home, because they can’t get the high paying jobs at these firms, because many of the firms executives will ensure that some way or another their HR Team will hire the expat who they want to be hired, vs a qualified Caymanian.

    Lastly, For many Caymanian parents, the public schools are not providing the quality of education that most parents desire for their children, so they have no choice but to pay for private school education.

    The Government needs to place a major focus on what is needed to ensure that Caymanians are not turned into second class citizens in their own country.

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    • Anonymous says:

      Is Ganga and a lottery really something that our government believe will benefit a Caymanian with a family and no where else to call home, but Cayman??

      Absolutely, any Caymanian who avoids a felony conviction for marijuana will benifit.

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      • Anonymous says:

        The commenter said “a Caymanian with a family”.

        But if the Caymanian doesn’t like his family, then he is fine with having his kid locked up and his life ruined over a little weed. That is how some families are.

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    • Anonymous says:

      4:20 pm
      The answer is, stop hiring island people, who are only concerned about a pay cheque and living life free from fear of being murdered. We can do better.

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  20. Anonymous says:

    when mla’s are afraid to legislate…..
    spineless fools that know this preocess will achieve nothing…..but at least they can say they ‘tried’….
    welcome to wonderland.

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    • Anonymous says:

      Spot on! Gives them something to ‘debate’ and spout crap about rather than face up the REAL problems on this island. Price gouging by the supermarkets, rising cost of fuel and utilities, quite absurd cost of renting, kids leaving school barely able to write (have witnessed this many times first hand), corruption and nepotism in Government, roads, the dump…etc..but let’s get mellow and put it all on black. Muppets.

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    • Anonymous says:

      They’re even worse at enforcing.

      • Anonymous says:

        Agreed 2:44.
        I believe the quality of life in Cayman, for all residents, would improve considerably if a no nonsense approach to all laws and policies was taken and all enforced with rigour.

        It is probably the lowest hanging fruit for making and impactful and lasting change.

        Could someone explain to me why the general ‘meh’ attitude prevails to enforcing laws in Cayman?

        Anyone?

  21. Anonymous says:

    we are on a slow boat to nowhere with such weak proposals to be put to a vote….
    mla’s are too scared to bring in legislation..hence they will put it back to the public…which will reject it due to church influence on the weak minded electorate.
    thanks for nothing no-plan-pact.

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  22. Anonymous says:

    It does not matter one bit who or why or what the argument is about. The bigger picture HAS to be who is representing the people, and in a supposed democracy, representing the majority.

    I took a look at the recent election returns – apart from maybe 2 MP’s, most of those that are in “charge” have around 500 votes.

    People – you cannot be serious (sorry John McEnroe) if you are happy that your future rights were determined by these folks with less than 1% each of total population!!!

    its utterly insane!! Just stop accepting the “rules” and start standing up for democracy…there is NO democracy right now.

    NONE

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  23. Anonymous says:

    good job wayne! glad see them hypocrites NOT influencing laws and decisions….IMMIGRATION NEXT YOU HEAR!

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  24. Anonymous says:

    Legalize Kenny’s illegal Billboard.

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    • Anonymous says:

      Tear down those billboards Mr. Premier!

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    • Anonymous says:

      I used to enjoy watching the debates but to prevent high pressure I am afraid I will have to discontinue watching due to the behavior of some of the PACT members. I have two grown sons and if they ever behave the way these do,, acting so insulting, condescending and ill- mannered I would have to have a “come to Jesus” discussion with them. Guys all you are doing with your stupid pompous attitude is reminding all and sundry how I’ll-equipped you are. Please, for the love of all that is decent and upright please strive to not disrespect your parents, the people of the Cayman Islands and yourself, I believe that because you are so unprepared tyou feel that you have to be this way to be heard and understand. You are defeating the purpose . A little meekness would be much better. Cayman is in some deep crap with these people.

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      • Anonymous says:

        I feel like that about almost all of them, past and present. I say almost because I really rate Andre Ebanks as a budding politician. He knows how to conduct himself.

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    • Anonymous says:

      The circus is in town- its at the LA this week. The Speaker didnt know that photographers are not allowed to take pictures during debates, Kenneth doesn’t see anything wrong with it. Then Roy asked a question concerning land purchase that should have been done and Jay told him that he (Roy) can go ahead and research if the land is available for sale. Obviously Jay doesn’t realise that he is the Minister responsible for the purchase of land by government!

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    • Anonymous says:

      And these are national priorities?

      What about unbearable traffic for most Caymanians?

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      • Anonymous says:

        @5:33am

        You have to be able to and chew gum..and you can’t do everything at the same time..what is important to you to get done may not be important to the next person..

    • Anonymous says:

      It’s illegal and ugly.
      Knock it down.

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  25. Anonymous says:

    I’ve smoked weed and found that it will disrupt your ability to think clearly and act normal. I didn’t like it when I couldn’t think clearly or lose track of what I was trying to do. Why would anyone want to be like that? What do you think about using it, Mr. Panton?

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    • Anonymous says:

      So does alcohol. What is your point?

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    • Logic 101 says:

      Whereas alcohol is legal because it has no impacts on one’s ability to think clearly and act normal?

      No one will force you to smoke weed, but if those who choose to, do, how does that affect you?

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    • Anonymous says:

      @1:58:
      Why would anyone want to be like that?
      Go to any popular bar during happy hour or just before last call on a Friday night and ask people that question. HINT: You may not receive a proper answer because they probably will not be tinkin’ so clearly.

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    • Anonymous says:

      That’s exactly why I use it. Let’s me disconnect from the world and allows me to relax. Best sleep aid ever for me at least. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean others do. I hate sliced tomato on sandwiches but that doesn’t mean I want it banned.

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    • Elvis says:

      It may help the idiots driving i guess

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    • Anonymous says:

      I smoked weed all throughout university and here I am, a professional Caymanian with more than one degree.

      Just because you threw up when you drank alcohol doesn’t mean the rest of us adults can’t buy a litre. Likewise with cannabis, which is actually prescribed as a medicine here and can’t be overdosed on.

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      • Anonymous says:

        Likewise, since late teens (not far from retirement age now, but don’t want to). I have excelled throughout my professional career in high pressure environments. I find helps for relaxation and winding down at home after work.

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      • Anonymous says:

        Exactly right. As pain management, it is a game-changer for me. I can do much more than I’ve been able to in previous years, lost weight and still manage to perform my high-stress job with alacrity.

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  26. Anonymous says:

    Now that government is ignoring Caymanian priority in immigration laws, a lottery will give Caymanians an opportunity at enrichment in their own country…..thanks Squanders.

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    • Anonymous says:

      We get these articles in a
      revelatory fashion by no coincidence. I am Caymanian through my parent and the Government has looked out for us just fine. We not perfect people and I strongly believe one life can make a difference to make major decisions.
      I mean someone got to say it. I am broke with a vision how about that.
      Cayman is just fine with the legal raffle ticket system. They been running it for years. You purchase as much tickets as you like or buy gas as much as you like. Both can be a gamble or a one-off faith purchase. Raffle things like forms of electric transportation; This prize gimick added to free groceries for a term.
      Most of us are better off working the 40k from scratch if you are hiring.

    • Anonymous says:

      Lottery yes, Ganja no.

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    • Anonymous says:

      1. Vote no Same-Sex Marriages
      2. Vote no recreational use of marijuana.
      3. Vote for a permanent limit on the liquor license. I get some of you people can’t live without your rum.
      4. Vote yes on the raffle ticket reward system.
      5. Vote yes on prohibited cigarette smoking locations.

      The law was flawed to begin with in regards
      to convicting for small quantities of marijuana.
      The convicted should get the chance to get their records expunged upon a new social inquiry.
      Anytime the drug is smuggled and sold on a large scale or small-time dealer scale then a conviction is necessary because they’re inclining opportunity for other crimes.

      However, medical marijuana users from other countries or post-patients in Cayman should get the CBD oil prescribed before boarding the plane to the Cayman Islands.

      Chronic users that do not have some underlining health defects should be aware of the standards. If you look on the Customs website, they prohibit marijuana graphic apparel. There is clearly a standard. If you want to
      smoke recreational weed then book a flight to Jamaica.

      “That’s not a good idea anyway.”

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      • Mumbichi says:

        6. Vote no to judgmental assholes who think they have the right to interfere in everyone’s personal business.

  27. Anonymous says:

    I am 100% for a single regional lottery. It is long overdue, and people here have been playing illegal lotteries for years including churches.

    As for legalizing pot, I do not think there should be stiff penalties for pot, but I would hate for it to become legal and smell pot everywhere you turn. I hate the smell of pot and I just returned from a trip overseas where it is legal it actually ruined my trip because on every street corner there was someone with a joint and the smell was unbearable. A real turnoff.

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    • Anonymous says:

      remember when you smell it your inhaling it

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    • Anonymous says:

      Vote out the weed.
      Yall will be giving Jamaica and the rest of them a platform to drive around high up. Think about the kids in our society. They all do not need to be mixed up inna dat.

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    • Anonymous says:

      They are not talking about legalizing pot; they are only talking about decriminalizing it (though you could still get ticketed for possession or consumption). I am 100% in favour of this. People should not have their futures ruined just for smoking pot.

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      • Anonymous says:

        If DEcriminalised, there should be no ticket for possession or consumption of small amounts. That’s a flaw in the proposed motion right there. Why should police continue wasting their time ticketing when it’s no longer a criminal offence.

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  28. Anonymous says:

    Still waiting on our cruise pier referendum which we were promised. What is it that they are afraid of?

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    • Anonymous says:

      We had a cruise pier vote and it was found NOT wanted by the Caymanian people. Where were you?

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      • Anonymous says:

        @2:05:
        Shhhh! If you had put that in all caps, you might have fully awaken 1:36 out of their coma.
        Obviously a referendum is pointless for 1:36 because they don’t participate in ’em. …zzz…zzzzzz…ZZZZZZZZ…

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      • Anonymous says:

        You are speculating, there was no vote. Why not?

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      • watcher says:

        You are wrong about that. We had a registration of voters to cause a referendum. The PPM caused that entire poll of electors to have to affirm their votes. The referendum was scheduled, and the PPM — seeing that they were going to lose big — moved up the election time so that we didn’t have a referendum vote. That was also done so they didn’t have to censure the Speaker.

        We never got a chance to vote in our first people-initiated referendum.

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      • Anonymous says:

        No there wasn’t a vote, please get your facts right

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      • Anonymous says:

        Wait until CHEC pop up again.

        • Anonymous says:

          Now they’re talking of cruise port in the Brac.
          Different way round the CHEC problem eh Mac and Kenny?..

      • Anonymous says:

        Point us to where we can find the results of the referendum oh great one.

      • Anonymous says:

        He’s one of the pro-ganja guys, so you need to cut him some slack.

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  29. Anonymous says:

    Abortion as well please. lets legslize it.

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    • Anonymous says:

      Hear yee, Hear yee!
      No but seriously.
      Are you trying to
      support lawlessness?
      Yes, murder is unlawful.
      Has anyone ever told you before starting a family you should actually want what comes with conception?
      In this country there is no big serial rapist issue.

      That do not ride clear in Cayman. You should also be legally married.
      Contraception should be used in legal relationships;
      At least then these responsible adults could give up the child for adoption.

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      • Anonymous says:

        murder. what a fool you are

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        • Anonymous says:

          Yeah, well if it sounds better, alright, ‘forceful removal of a human being’. It is murder of the unborn child to tear them limb from limb, head and scalp among other means. You should also consider contributing to educating people not calling them a fool. I know not one soul in Cayman that removed a child from the womb to kill it before birth. But we all know in much larger metropolitan countries like America it was very common (pictures as proof).

      • Anonymous says:

        Abortion is the act of removing cells from woman’s body that are dependent on her body for its own survival. It isn’t an independent life until birth.

        Therefore, with your logic, using a condom, which is the act of removing cells from a woman’s body that will die without her body, is the equivalent of murder.

        Dumb logic. Don’t have an abortion if you don’t want one, but if a Caymanian mother can barely support 2, why must she have 3 if the man leaves? Her body, her choice!

        • Anonymous says:

          The person upon a doctor’s visit who discovers they are pregnant with a developing child has two decisions: 1. Use measures to dispose the child in its’ (life development) or 2. She decides not to interfere with the child’s (life development) in the womb until birth.

          The most liberal definition on the definition of this word ‘Abortion’ is this: the expulsion of a fetus from the uterus by natural causes before it is able to survive independently.

          Wait, so pregnancy was already established? Yes, the formation of the fetus means you are pregnant.

          I believe some of you are just blowing smoke.
          You people would probably never commit such a crime
          against humanity like (removing a human in the womb).

          Facts and logic teach us the use of condoms prevent pregnancy 99.9% of the time. The other percent alludes to the fact that this form of contraception might fail for reasons like sabotage or expired material etc.

          In the confounds of sex, her body her choice, right?
          In the confounds of marriage, her body her choice, right?

          “Turn from sexual immorality, adultery, and unequal yokes, and turn to God.” Everyone should just follow your example after breaking up from her
          ‘man’. So according to you, when is it appropriate to do an abortion after her ‘man’ leaves?

      • Mumbichi says:

        Please try to organise your thoughts before posting here. thank you for playing.

    • Anonymous says:

      And cremation, please!

      10
    • Anonymous says:

      Funny that everyone voting for abortion actually survived it.

      2
      16

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