Panton inclines towards access to legal abortion
(CNS): The lack of legal access to abortion in the Cayman Islands is currently under review by the Law Reform Commission as part of its work modernising the Penal Code. However, Premier Wayne Paton has made his first public declaration of his inclination to support at least limited access. Indicating that he understood the position of pro-lifers and the challenges around the issue, he nevertheless said he believes in women’s rights to have control over their own bodies and said it was a conversation Cayman needed to have.
The Penal Code bans abortion in all circumstances except where it saves the mother’s life. Terminations, even by abortion pills, are illegal even in cases of incest, rape or where there are complications with the foetus. But Panton said that, at the very least, the law should provide access to legal abortion in such circumstances here in the Cayman Islands, as he noted the many young victims of incest abuse.
Appearing on Cayman Marl Road’s “Premier Access” on Wednesday evening, Panton said, “I personally have strong feelings about supporting women’s rights.” While acknowledging that abortion was a difficult decision for anyone to make, he said that young girls who are impregnated as a result of rape or incest should have that right.
Panton said that historically women could travel to the United States for abortions, but changes to the law there could impact that access. Meanwhile, the LRC has been looking into the question of whether safe legal abortion should be provided here. The premier said there is a legitimate expectation that women should have control over their own bodies and there is a need to discuss the issue in the Cayman Islands.
After CNS posted an article about the LRC’s public consultation at the beginning of this year, there were well over 100 comments that reflected a relatively even split on this contentious issue.
However, very little research has been done in Cayman on public opinion on this topic. The LRC consultation is now over and traditionally such consultations have very poor response rates, usually no more than a few dozen. The formal submissions mostly come from experts in specific topics or stakeholders and campaigners with strong views on either side of the debates and rarely from members of the broader population, which would offer a more realistic reflection of public opinion.
In the discussion paper, the LRC did not suggest specific parameters for new legislation but posed a number of questions for consideration and explained that the law criminalises women seeking abortions as well as the doctors and health professionals who help them. The LRC noted that this conflicts with the Cayman Islands Bill of Rights, as well as the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women, both of which are extended to the Cayman Islands.
Their research found that no one in Cayman has ever been prosecuted for procuring or providing an abortion. In 2013 the health ministry conducted an adolescent health and sexuality survey and this decade-old data, which is the only official statistics on the subject, revealed that over 9% of 15- and 16-year-olds admitted to having had an abortion.
There are few pollsters working in this jurisdiction who are in a position to undertake an accurate poll on a subject like abortion, which is emerging on the political agenda now for the first time in the country’s history. And so far there has been no campaign for a referendum to put the question to voters.
In the United States, while there is vocal support for complete abortion bans from right-wing conservatives, the most recent poll by the Pew Research Center found that 61% of adults in the US say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. On 24 June the US Supreme Court reversed Roe v. Wade, a landmark ruling that the court had upheld for 50 years which found that the Constitution of the United States conferred the right to have an abortion
The decision returned the decision of the legality of abortions to each state, and trigger laws and legacy laws in some states immediately came into effect, severely curtailing or outright banning abortion. Legislators in some states are proposing even more draconian laws. For example, in Texas, Idaho, Tennessee, Ohio and Oklahoma, anti-abortion legislation gives rapists and their families the right to sue abortion providers.
In a referendum in Kansas on Tuesday, voters in the very Republican state voted ‘no’ by a margin of 59% to 41% to a proposed amendment to the Kansas constitution that would have removed the right to an abortion in that state.
See the law regarding abortion and the LRC discussion paper in the CNS Library
The poll below provides a snapshot of CNS readers’ opinions and is not a scientific survey.
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Category: Health, Laws, Medical Health, Politics
Do we have a democracy or theocracy ?
How dare the government\church try to make changes with our health offerings!!
Teach proper sexual health and reproduction In all schools (religious Or agnostic\ non-dinominational) and girls then grow into strong women that know they alone control their bodies.
Err that is the job of the parents.
You would hope but too many hide in their churches to notice their childrens struggles.
“the many young victims of incest abuse.” What a sad statement – we pride ourselves on our kindness and our values, and yet this is sadly true. We should be ashamed.
@4:55 – Okay then, allow abortions for rape victims and saving the mother’s life … But what about 95% of abortions in the United States are for “irresponsible reasons” … should we legalize for that too? Unbelievable! I believe you folk just love to use extreme cases like rape to justify murder. Murder is murder! It is the taking of a human life.
There would be fewer teenage baby mamas producing NAU and Northward candidates.
5:48 I agree with you. In fact, I believe that this “leaning toward” should be no surprise. How ironic that shortly after major changes started taking place regarding abortion in the United States the Premier of this country is making these public statements. I guess this will be another form of medical tourism that will be promoted. Shame on us if we, the people of these islands allow it.
Why just the unborn? Picking on them is a little selective I think – no voice, no champion. You so called pro-choice need to check your reasons, the child is unwanted, the child will be a burden, the child will drain resources. I hope you see that when you are old, senile, a total drain on resources, and when no one wants you around because you are taking up valuable space – the next step is to abort another defenseless human being. And guess who’s next?
Abortion should indeed be legalized in the Cayman Islands. I’ve accompanied 2 former girlfriends to Miami for abortions back in the 90’s. Neither relationship was ready for long term commitment, and none of the parties involved were ready to have children. Both of these pregnancies occurred despite having used contraception. Accidents happen, even when the best preventative measures are taken by responsible adults. These women should not have had to go through the added torture of having to fly to Miami to seek medical care that should be readily available in their home country.
2 girlfriends needing abortions – perhaps the problem is you not keeping it in your pants? I would have thought the first experience might have discouraged you from having to encounter the second.
Don’t understand your response? Are you suggesting he shouldn’t have slept with his girlfriend? That would be strange
I suspect that was a supportive girlfriend helping her friends through tough times but thanks for being judgmental….
Pull and pray isn’t a reliable method of contraception.
Ah so that’s the development plan….destroy our career opportunities and ability to buy a home in our own country..and now the finale…destroy us.
1. Medical tourism is what the goal is
2. The abortion pill is EASY to get in Cayman, at least this way its under the care of a physician
3. You don’t believe in abortions? Don’t get one. Can’t get one because you are a man? Shhh
Bingo! The master plan to eradicate Caymanians!
Stupidest take I heard yet.
Eradicate all those unwanted and then sadly neglected babies who provide fodder for the gang culture.
That was what Jamaicans said when contraception was being encouraged there by government in the 70’s.
And it is what Jamaicans are saying here now.
It is perfectly possible to have a deep seated reasoned moral objection to abortion which deserves to be treated with respect. If that is the case, then a person is free to (a) not get an abortion and (b) express the view that abortion is morally wrong without retribution.
Those rights and freedoms are not affected by abortion being legally available. Nobody is compelled to have an abortion if they do not wish to do so, or to refrain from expressing their an anti-abortion view.
However, where abortion is prohibited, that is not the case because the views of those who are not morally opposed to abortion, which may be equally deep seated, are not respected: instead they are compelled to conform with the views of the anti-abortion group by refraining from obtaining an abortion.
So what is really at stake here is the desire to be able to tell other people what to do and compel them to act in accordance with a particular set of moral values.
By all means express your views. Try to persuade others of their correctness. If your argument is strong, you might succeed. But at the point in time that you assert the right to force others to comply, or to stifle any contrary view, you are the oppressor, not the oppressed.
Perfect, you have expressed it perfectly. Thank you.
Well said. Do you think there should be term limits on when a pregnancy is allowed to be terminated? If so what?
Thank you, it’s great to have such an important topic brought forward to discuss.
If you believe abortion should be illegal because of religious reasons, please pardon yourself and come back with a better argument.
Women should have access to safe professional healthcare.
I’m not religious. I just think they should be illegal for murder reasons.
Phew, thanks.
Murder is defined by the law and it’s such a touchy subject, rightfully so.
You’re entitled to your opinion, but for “murder” reasons is tends to be a try to ‘catch all’. They argue “Oh you’re just murdering unborn children!”
When in fact it’s the parts forming to become. Do you look at a pile of bricks and wood and call it a house? If they’re terminated, or hurricane comes through, do you say a “house blew down”. No, it’s not a house.. It’s material that could become a house.
There are many instances where a pregnancy isn’t viable… but the reasons for don’t really equate in this since it’s really up to the woman… and if a partner is involved, maybe them too.
It begs the thoughts, “When is okay to kill a living thing?” and what is something that is “dead” Most people tend to agree it’s once it no longer has conscious experience it’s okay. For example, if someone is on the hospital bed, and has no activity in the brain- is it okay to pull the plug, even if some of their organs are functioning and there is a heartbeat? Typically there is a general consensus that humans can choose to terminate something that’s not “experiencing” even though cells are living. For someone who is brain dead, or a coma, you can argue they’ve had their experience, but what’s to say of something that hasn’t had one yet? If something hasn’t had an experience and you’re going about the “potential” and “what ifs” that in itself spins off into an invalid argument since potential is not equal to actual. Next thing is “A wasted an egg, that could have been the next prodigy… millions of sperms have not fulfilled their duty.. they could have potentially been something great!”
Doctors believe roughly between 20-24 weeks is when the fetus starts to develop experiences*, and In my opinion if you have a “choice abortion” (for whatever you personal reasoning is) before then it’s fine. Medical reasons are beyond me-Leave that to doctors, but women deserve legally to have access.
I cannot speak for someone who has to go through it, but I’d imagine choice would be a last resort, and extremely difficult one, I highly doubt women are or will be going around having abortions cause it’s fun. Sex Ed, Contraception and not becoming pregnant is most ideal, but illegal healthcare probably has way more risk than anything else. If a woman really wants to abort, she’ll find a away.
*https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-does-consciousness-arise/
*https://www.science.org/content/article/when-does-your-baby-become-conscious
TD:DR ‘choice abortion’ should be legal for women if performed before 20-24 weeks.
A baby being formed in the womb is a human life and you drawing comparison to the formation to a pile of bricks is beyond belief.There is where I left your ignorance.
Most reasonable people agree that abortion should be available in certain situations, e.g. to save the life of the mother, the unborn child is malformed or it’s life is medically proven untenable after birth, or in instances of rape or incest. However, abortion should not be used as birth control. Instead of considering the legalization of abortion perhaps Panton should give more thought to educating our people to be more responsible and not engage in unprotected, careless sex.
Observing that man’s general behaviour and expressions makes me both happy and relieved to know that he is not in office by my vote.
The point went right over your head. It’s okay…
As you say “being formed” is similar to “under construction” and not equal to “formed”. If you fail to see the similarities for the point of the arguments sake that’s on you.
I do agree with you that abortion shouldn’t be used as birth control.
Preventative and education is always the better option.
However, I stand my ground that women deserve to have safe access to abortions and medical care regardless. In my view abortions should be legal before a conscious experience occurs, which is said to be roughly 20-24 weeks in the development stage.
So superior. I happen to agree with you but you made it difficult.
I am not superior by any means. I’m a nobody who put thought, research, watched debates and then developed my own opinion on what is a very difficult subject. I’m always open to being corrected and hearing new meaningful viewpoints.
Saying that the comparisons to the development processes were “beyond believe” and claiming I’m “ignorant” when a small point was missed… Of course I would defend my argument, albeit bluntly.
Sorry if I made it difficult, 🙂 but glad to come to agreements.
If the data that I have seen is correct then rape, incest, the life of the mother or child and failed contraceptives account for less than 15% of abortions.
If the data is correct then the biggest issue we have is one of personal accountability and responsibility.
While there might be a case for limited access to abortions what is really needed is for society to stop having protected and entitled groups of people.
Who gives a flying f*** why?????? You don’t want to have one? Don’t.
Leave people the hell alone Jesus Christ.
Warning to all christian males. Your semen is half a baby. If you spill it, you kill it.
Its half a baby – maybe. Maybe, because otherwise every unprotected sex encounter would = pregnancy. Semen by itself is not a baby. Its the potential to be a baby. Spilling it – particularly when the testes are going to replace the sperm within hours – is not killing anything; perhaps delaying the potential for a baby. Spill it kill it may rhyme, but its simply not true.
No more viagra for you.
I’m pretty sure the majority of all these pro abortion comments and the writer of this story aren’t from Cayman originally. This has become an issue in the last 15 years or so with expats having too much of a voice in the Cayman Islands and their voices are very loud. Does anyone notice that the majority of these secular issues originate from non Cayman sources.
The murder of a baby is so flippant to people. Who cares…the mother… insert excuse. There is no difference in abortion and killing your 5 year old child. It’s all murder. These pro choice people have completely divorced the life of the unborn and the reality that it is a living human.
Really. Born and bred generational Caymanian here. Don’t want an abortion, don’t have one. My business is my business and it does not affect you in any way. BTW did have an abortion many years ago when birth control failed. No regrets at all and only want the same access for my children should they ever need one.
False equivalent. If you equate the life of a human being the same as a single cell, then you are delusional. A single drop of blood has hundreds if not thousands of blood cells – I doubt anyone would follow the logic that a single drop of blood is worth the lives of a single person much less several hundred.
Every sperm is sacred.
Free for all abortion should not be legal in Cayman.
Under certain circumstances, up to a certain point, sure.
But not because you went out Friday night, and had a train ran on you and now you.
Women want all the freedoms and rights in the world. Freedom to have sex with who you want, when you want, etc. But you should be able to know that decisions have consequences.
It’s like you almost make a decent point/opinion then you bring up this line and flush it all away.
“Women want all the freedoms and rights in the world.”
Are you saying that men should have more freedom than women? That men can just go around having sex with women, and women cannot have their own sexual liberty? Eesh, what a distasteful take.
Women deserve access to safe healthcare and that includes abortions. Details on the “up to weeks that it should be allowed” & extreme scenarios are up to discuss- which you seem to agree with.
Better Sex education, access to contraceptives, are all things that should go along with it.
Abortions after 6 months are murder.
The world “Murder” is only used if it is a crime.
Well, professor, it is in fact a crime. What you really mean to say is that a baby is not a person until it is all the way out. Allow me to disagree. Follow the science.
Abortion choice for rape victims I can understand – abortion for grown-@$$ irresponsible women who did not think through the consequences of a night in the sack… not too sure how I feel about that. Unprotected sex = pregnancy
At least limit the term to 12 weeks; aborting a fetus older than that is no short of torture and murder.
Many pro-abortion people turn their mind away from the reality of the abortion process on a 4, 5 6 month+ fetus – oftentimes the BABY is still alive for some time after the procedure – it is wickedness and evil.
Poisoning and dismembering an unborn 6 month old baby is just as wicked as putting cyanide in a baby’s bottle or having the doctor tear its legs off in the maternity ward after labour.
Abortion is bad enough overall – late term abortion is wickedness and absolutely unacceptable.
“grown-@$$ irresponsible women who did not think through the consequences of a night in the sack… not too sure how I feel about that”
You’re not sure how you feel about them having an abortion, but you are certain that trusting them to responsibly raise a child for the next 18 years will work out just fine.
Yeah – lets not just punish the “slut” irresponsible woman (cant help but notice there is no comment about the irresponsible man) but lets make the unwanted babies life a living hell as well, and lets just accept the social consequences of unwanted, unloved and neglected children. I would have a lot more time for the anti abortion lobby if they came up with a solution for how those unwanted babies are going to get a loving home and upbringing.
Adoption? Ever heard of that?
Little story here. A friend who worked in an orphanage told us that after the Roe vs Wade decision the number of children available for adoption dropped to the point that they had to close the orphanage down. She recalled how utterly sad it was to recognize that the number of babies that would show up each month simply were gone as in dead, aborted. She stated it was the saddest thing to know that all those little lives were lost and how the orphanage grew more and more quiet as the last of the children were adopted.
One bad decision should be fixed by another bad decision.
Wouldn’t that be the goal of an adoption clinic? To not be needed?
Good. Ideally there would be no orphanages anywhere as then all children born are wanted
How about you adopt if you care so much about this issue.
What about the mans responsible? This attitude towards women is exactly why abortion is being banned in the US. Trying to keep women down.
Many of Cayman’s social problems trace back to disproportionate policy interference from the 17th Century-minded Cayman Islands Ministers Association, and their shrivelling flock of adherents. If there were more time and resources invested on: school age sexual education programs; puberty, hormones, and menstruation; STD awareness; sexual abuse reporting and counselling; cultural patriarchy and misogyny; boundaries, abuse, crime and reporting; respect and self worth classes; paired with increased and normalised acceptance of abstinence, birth control, family planning, and even vasectomies…a lot fewer would need to contemplate the abortion landscape. If Panton wants to really change things, he needs to go to the root of the problem, empower women, and respectfully separate powers/influence of patriarchal right wing cult churches, and a what should be UK-aligned BOT territorial state and administration. There will be a lot fewer headlines and lawsuits that way.
So we now have a premier who thinks he needs to bow to the imported woke brigade of foreign morons. Wayne, this island founded on values. Please can we keep them in tact? If you want to do something to prevent unwanted kids, educate school children and make condoms readily available. There are other ways to prevent pregnancies’ without murdering babies.
Wayne never did see himself as one of us, congrats Newlands … terrific choice you sold out too!
Atheist
Pro LGBT
Pro Abortion
This dude is a winner lol
He spent more than everyone else in Newlands.
Thats why we like him. His views are actually from this century
Values? Want to explain the incest issues then?
Pathetic xenophobic ignorance. Just what I expect from nativist clowns.
You could always take your woke ideologies back to your home country. No one is forcing you to live amongst us.
Ah yes. Because they are outsiders their views can be ignored, especially if they are critical. So much easier than actually thinking about whether there is any merit to them. Personally I think we should get back to legal slavery – its ore or less what we have anyway for low paid expat labour, lets just be honest about it . That way we wont have to worry about what the troublesome expats think at all.
Headline could be, Panton considers killing babies.
Wayne Panton is a hypocrite! What happened to my body, my choice during the pandemic!? Already securing votes I see…. what a joke of a premier.
If you are going to use this argument, you must explain how you were forced to have (or prevented from having) a life-changing medical procedure during the pandemic. Vaccines were never mandatory. The hypocrisy is entirely on the side of people who used the ‘my body my choice’ mantra for a flipping mask but insist on controlling women’s bodies and their critical health decisions. Pathetic.
Another silly argument is the vote-getting one, which I don’t think this is. Quite the opposite in fact. I see a politician making the politically brave decision to decide on an issue because of principle AND NOT vote pandering.
I would say that forcing people to give up their lively hood or get jabbed was fairly mandatory.
In case you were asleep, the Premier publically encouraged businesses to discriminate against their employees. Some even lost their job over it. No religious exemption and your family doctor suddenly became unqualified to provide exemptions. If you cannot see the hypocrisy, I cannot help you.
The younger generations are the relevant voting populace as the older voting population is decreasing. The young generations are more accepting of this kind of stuff. McKeeva did it with the status grants to secure his political career. Panton doing the same thing and using Abortion and Gay rights to his advantage.
You’re an idiot! Pregnancy is not contagious and this is a very different matter. It’s about time someone had the guts to shed the light on this matter as pill abortions are happening every day in Cayman with vulnerable women being left to fend for themselves and subject to possible deadly sepsis infection when the uterus does not completely clear! Plus how many unwanted children in Cayman going hungry, facing neglect and abuse? Nice to see all you arm chair warriors going at it about abortion but where is the outrage at the extreme suffering children right here in these blessed Cayman Islands are facing every day!
Why are you not out there on the Court house steps or GAB shouting at he top of your lungs how terrible it is when a man gets a tap on his wrist for the crime of incest, rape or sexual abuse whether it ends with pregnancy or not?? Let’s face it, a lot of abortions come about because females are out here having intercourse willy-nilly with every or any male she pleases to without protection. You all supporting abortion under the pretense that it should be legal for special cases but there is no specialness in being irresponsible. ppl get your minds and hearts in the right place and stand up for what needs to be put as priority for the betterment of our minors and the female populace. If we had more harsher and stiffer penalties for rape, incest, pedophilia, sexual abuse, neglected and unsupported child then I am sure a male would think more of his genitalia before he make the choice to pass that line of disrespecting, disregarding and abusing a female or minor child. We need to protect all children born and unborn alike!
“What happened to my body, my choice during the pandemic!?” — it may come as a surprise to you that pregnancy is not spread by airborne contagions exhaled by pregnant people.
I recommend reading “Freakonomics”,
There is a whole chapter on Abortions and how banning them effects a country socially and economically.
Crime goes up. Poverty goes.
Rejected children cause problems.
I see “carnal knowledge” of a minor on a poster’s abortion list. I entirely agree. Most cases of children-under-15 having children are tantamount to abuse and in themselves are criminal acts.
Add to that the threat to the pregnant child’s life, and the very real possibility that the foetus may not survive because the bodies of children under 15 are not developed enough to carry a pregnancy to full term.
See article on threat pregnancy poses to life of pregnant child:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gynecologists-warn-girls-under-15-175232176.html
People are funny. They have no problem sleeping with multiple people, have children out of wedlock etc.But mention the word abortion to them and they pull out the Bible.
Never seen a Muslim pull out a bible. If you are going after the religions at least include all the monotheistic ones.
Hi Crazy person! The overwhelming religious majority here are Christian, hence the Bible reference. It’s not that other religions are immune from craziness, it’s just that they don’t have any influence here in the Cayman Islands.
9.47 No influence yet you
mean
Muslims don’t prescribe to abortions either, like they don’t read the same Holy Bible as Christians do!! I’m left wondering how come Muslims is mentioned in your comments just because the Bible was mentioned! There are many religions and beliefs that don’t support aborting “a foetus” (killing a baby, destroying an innocent life, ending an unwanted pregnancy) since it’s just not right
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11082663/Fiery-five-vehicle-collision-LA-intersection-kills-six-people-including-infant-unborn-child.html
So does the unborn baby count or not?
What on earth has a car accident got to do with abortion?
Argument fail.
Pretty simple… Does the death of the fetus count towards the fatality stats of the accident or is it irrelevant?
He is pandering to his base and the people of the island. Creating a false issue and dividing the community as we see happening in larger nations. Cayman is in no position to organize and fund such a service.
But hey, look over here while the economy and your future are in the shitter!
Clutching at straws much? What “base” are you talking about? The largely Christian voters in his constituency who are probably anti-abortion. “Cayman” doesn’t have to organize or fund the service. What is being discussed is making it legal so that private practitioners can offer it to their clients. And if the HSA did provide this, it’s not an overly expensive procedure.
How many of those “Christian” voters have children that are now of voting age and do not particularly care about living the Christian lifestyle?
You don’t have to be a Christian or even believe in God to lead a Christian lifestyle. It’s just personal responsibility, empathy, humility, discipline etc. I don’t think living a Christian lifestyle is as horrible as so e make it out to be.
It’s not “overly expensive” nor will it be supplemented by the government! You heard it here first folks.
We cant source affordable fruit for our supermarkets but our gracious leader is going to push and implement this radical law into place with zero economic impact.
And I suppose this will take priority over say, the economy and getting Caymanians working again?
The timing of all of this is sickening to the stomach!
It will save the country more money in the long run
As a man I do not feel that I should have any say in what a woman decides to do with her body. So provide them access in all situations where that is their decision.
Plus, now, it would be another avenue for medical tourism.
How about some relevant say in what she does with her babies’ body?
That is the point, it is her decision. Her partner can have input but no one else.
How about be a man and protect yourself and your partner(s) from unwanted pregnancies?
I always did. I have 1 child born after marriage. I am the original poster.
A forward thinking Premier..who would have thought??..bring back Alden, we need to continue living in the dark ages..
Here we go again. Always getting his hands into things he don’t got no clue. How about fixing the people that are going to bed hungry? Why not fix the sawgrum issue? How about climate change and the environment the points that you campaigned and won your seat on? How about phased development? There are so many other issues that requires your immediate attention.
So your saying the Premier should focus on only one thing at a time then
Well so far he really hasn’t done anything. So we will see.
Yes, let’s focus on the sargassum issue instead of matters of human health… wtf.
He was at the helm and made sure to mandate the cv19 jab for all WP holders regardless of their preference to choose to do so or not and/or were given medical exemptions that never got reviewed or accepted and supported businesses who mandated it for their employees or no job!! Where was the right to choose what happens to my body? Yet he talking about “the right to choose what happens to their bodies”. Every aborted baby should come back and haunt you all every day for the rest of your lives. I guess the right is only for what comes out of the body, not what goes into it. Yes, he needs to do what is right for the environment and stick to his portfolio and the many more problems than Sargassum, that’s hurting the Islands and the ppl.
Next we start changing kids genders with hormones and surgery. Woke evil knows no bounds.
It must be so infuriating to see the world progress beyond your small viewpoint and having your neighbors embrace it. You must feel so trapped and powerless watching your view get left behind and forgotten.
This isn’t sympathy. It’s mild humor. Seethe more you clown.
Do you see the people in their 20’s now starting to de-transition back to their original sex? Give it another decade or 2 and you will see this happening more and more. What is being forced on children now is as wicked as can be. You can’t just be a “tom girl” anymore. They’re now convincing these young girls that they need hormones and to have their breasts removed. Absolutely disgusting!
Just because you believe you are right doesn’t make it so. You probably believe in gay marriage, abortion, use of preferred pronouns, sex change in children etc. This is something I disagree with. The difference of beliefs should always be respected and debated. My issue is people like to demonize others they disagree with instead of healthy discussions with those people. When you just say “you clown” you end any possibility of honest dialogue. When you trap yourself in a bubble of thought and only engage with individuals of the same ideology you miss so much therefore stunting your evolutionary growth. We can disagree while learning from each other.
Suggested reasons for allowing abortion under the proposed law change.
Should the Penal Code be amended to expand the grounds for legal abortion
in the following cases —
(a) where there is a threat to the pregnant woman’s physical or
mental health, without conditionality of “long-term or
permanent” effects;
(b) where the pregnancy is as a result of rape, incest;
(c) where there is a severe fetal impairment, including fatal fetal
abnormlity;
(d) where the pregnancy is as a result of carnal knowledge of a
minor;
(e) where there is a serious health problem with the fetus which
did not present itself until a later date;
(f) where the woman is not more than 23 weeks pregnant;
(g) where there is an inability to pay for the abortion procedure
before 23 weeks;
(h) where the intellectual or cognitive ability of the woman is
impaired.
(i) where the woman’s current and future physical,
psychological and social circumstances will be adversely
impacted;
(j) where there is unpreparedness for the transition to
motherhood;
(k) where there is an absence of a partner or lack of support of
partner;
(l) where the woman cannot mentally fathom the thought of
placing the baby for adoption; or
(m) where the woman does not want to be a single mother or was
having relationship problems
Think of trimming these ones out:
(i) where the woman’s current and future physical,
psychological and social circumstances will be adversely
impacted; <– part of the deal…every mother is going on a 16-21 year journey!
(j) where there is unpreparedness for the transition to
motherhood; <– most first time mothers are nervous about how they'll do!
(k) where there is an absence of a partner or lack of support of
partner; <– many Caribbean pregnancies!
(l) where the woman cannot mentally fathom the thought of
placing the baby for adoption; or <– 2nd or 3rd trimester?!?
(m) where the woman does not want to be a single mother or was
having relationship problems <– that's a bad reason to abort a child
Only if we can abort people at any age. Not fair just to pick on the unborn.
What age should be recorded on the unborns death certificate in your world?
What’s astonishing about this, is half the people on this island would agree that “spare the rod spoil the child” is appropriate parenting.
Yet they feed their children until they are obese, teach them that being Caymanian is a lottery ticket, and when it isn’t, complain that the real world is leaving them behind.
We have all seen the advert “Sonney boy, here’s some horrible food for your dangerously obese ass” but it’s cute, he’s Local, and remember, nobody can afford to buy land or build a house.
If abortion were legal here we’d perhaps have halve the useless “sonny boys” we do, complaining they don’t get paid enough, complaining they are discriminated against, complaining it’s the expats, complaining it’s the wages.
Funny thing is, the Jamaicans, Filipinos and Indians are getting paid less than ANY Caymanian, so what’s their excuse going to be next?
Caymanians are the most resourceful, streetwise, honest, friendly and hospitable people I have ever met. I love them.
But their lack of willingness to get together and unite, accept that there is a problem is what is letting them down.
If you want your government to regulate a woman’s body based on medieval beliefs, then feel free to move to a theocracy. Like, say, Iran. Or the USA.
Or the Cayman Islands
This is a classic case of the noisy minority being the most prominent.
The poll is clear, most people support abortion rights.
Yet most of the comments are the opposite. Sorry, move on with your lives. The majority of civilisation disagrees with you.
Back to church you go, back to performing all your nefarious deeds, back to blocking progress, affordable housing, healthcare for all, social safety net, not in my back yard bullshit that prevents progress.
I’m not even left leaning and I think you’re kind are scum.
It is not a “right”.
In you are “not even leaning left” rant…which is thoroughly left, so no need to lean there…did you mean to say “your” kind are scum or “you’re” a kind of scum…hahaha. Sad to think you don’t believe that killing a baby is a “nefarious deed”. I will tell you the same God that you are licking out against will judge you all very harshly for coming against the innocent unborn child so much!!
I note that all the pro-choice people have already been born – Ronald Reagan
Not because they were born means they don’t wish they were dead. Some people actually wish they were never born because of severe poverty, severe hunger, severe mental abuse and severe physical abuse throughout their lives.
Why is it that if someone shoots and kills a woman that is pregnant they can be charged with double homicide. But certain groups want to see abortion be legal right up to point of birth and even worse once out of the womb!
Ponder that for awhile then tell me again how the baby isn’t really a baby so abortion is okay.
You’re post is competent irrational
No one is advocating abortion up to birth. Don’t be silly. I think when people refer to abortion law they mean laws like most normal countries like the us, at 20 weeks or whatever when it is not yet a human. You are being ridiculous saying people want to abort up to birth… that happens only in countries like China historically where they have a strict one child policy so the government force abort at late stage if you try and have a second. No one is suggesting that here. Also it’s not killing anything at 20 weeks or so, it’s just a collection of cells, so should always be the parents choice to have it or not. No one should be forced to have a baby they don’t want. It is their body, their future child and no one else’s to decide about.
Suggest you do your homework. It is what a number of US states are wanting.
People are indeed advocating abortion up to birth. That is a concern to some of us who would support 15-20 weeks.
So if before 20 weeks “it’s not yet human”, then it must be an orange or fig a woman is carrying when she gets pregnant. And you all say there is no God. It could only be a Divine Being turn a non-human into a Human afterwards, in such a short time! And speaking of choice, then why you have so much to say along with the Premier?!?!
The problem with only making them in rape cases etc is that there will be a significant increase in false claims because people will get desperate. It’s a disaster to put that on someone in a fragile said. Her body her choice. No questions asked.
Are you fucking mental? are you going to claim that women are going to claim to have been RAPED in order to get access to an abortion?
Please fix your brain.
People falsely claim to have been raped in the past without being pregnant.
Born Caymanians no
All others it should be mandatory.
You’re an immigrant too
Red herring much? Someone born to parents born in the country are not immigrants. OP just as much an immigrant as you are an extra terrestrial. To some being you are aren’t you?
Disgusting
I’m all for letting people do whatever they want to do, but killing babies kind of makes me feel a certain way…
I agree but they are not babies
What are they then? PACT members?
a clump of cells
that will turn into a dinosaur??
You’ve got to admit though, that clump of cells sure looks a lot like a baby. I mean, technically, we’re all a clump of cells.
Oh they are definitely babies. Scientifically anyway. Mentally and emotionally on your end maybe they aren’t.
So that’s the thing, they AREN’T babies.
So its not a baby even if it has a heart, limbs, face, eyes … ????
Does it make you feel like being financially responsible for the babies?
I sure have been. Best thing that’s ever happened to me…
They are not babies. If you abort at 12 or 20 weeks or whatever normal up law is, it’s not a human or a baby. So not an issue. Can’t believe people actually feel strongly about banning abortion, so weird. It’s the woman’s choice.
I really hope you didn’t go to any reputable academic institution. You can’t just make up your own science.
SO you let people do whatever they want to do and mind your business.
Change the law now.
This is not a subject for “a conversation”. The opinion of 50% of the population is already irrelevant.
Really. Maybe ask the babies how they feel about it Wayno.
The unborn child that is now proven to feel pain in the abortion process.
It’s funny that people are down voting a scientific fact.
Embryos can speak? Holy moly!
Well that 50% isn’t going anywhere. Seethe.
Wow! You sure did a poll real fast and got 50% of Caymanians supporting abortion already….the poll you are referring to is only the number of ppl that read this article by subscribing to CNS and can vote on the poll. DON’T KILL THE BABIES!! Who will look after you when you reach your ripe old age and can’t help yourself or need some assistance…is it going to be some robots or you not planning on living to be that “old”?
You only want babies to have them look after you? What a selfish POS you are.
OP is referring to the 50 %, give or take, who can’t get pregnant.
OUR bodies, OUR choice.
In a society that does practically nothing to prevent the sexual abuse of minors and the rape and abuse of women at the hands of predators due to rampant misogyny thinly disguised as religious or cultural beliefs & behaviours, legal and safe access to abortion is not only desirable, it is necessary. Protect women and girls now. My body, my choice.
My body, my choice is selective only when it suits. Didn’t work for the mandated vaccinations did it?
The vaccines weren’t mandated. And also, it wasn’t just your body, because you could’ve easily spread a deadly contagion. Pregnancy isn’t contagious.
Try harder next time. This attempt was pathetic.
So is your comprehension and double digit IQ because vaccines were mandated (hint – ask any permit holder) and you missed the point that ‘my body, my choice’ was not an option then. Oh and of course the unborn child doesn’t have that right either. Hence the use of the term ‘selective’. Look it up
You seem to miss the point. In the case of infectious disease, no your body is not your choice if you want to continue to utilize public services. Abortion is not infectious disease so your comment just comes off as simple minded. Choosing not to have a child is not the same as choosing not to get vaccinated. There’s no need for semantics or comparisons. 🤷♂️
I was SA at 8. I opened up about it in my early 20s and I have received so many ‘me too’ responses. I cannot imagine anyone’s mental health state after being forced to carry a child from a SA. Something needs to be done to protect women on this island.
Abortion would certainly help lower the crime rate around here. Too many unwanted ferals running amok.
Racist shit
Data sets are not racists.
Correct, when abortion became legal widespread in the us and other countries the crime rate dropped significantly. Generally unwanted children that people couldn’t abort increase crime, not their fault but they are unwanted and unsupported. Abortion is better,
If legal abortion were introduced, you would see a reduction in crime in 16-18 years
That’s racist. Your bigotry knows no bounds
and while we’re giving women the option to terminate their responsibility to raise a child (which is 100% fair), lets also give Men that option as well. If a man states from the moment he is aware the woman is pregnant, that he does not want a child, he should be able to walk away and not be financially liable.
They already do and have been for generations bobo.
Not legally bobo
Thank you!
like Chappelle said, “if you was gonna kill him, I should be able to say no to paying for him”
This really needs to be a discussion in Cayman. The argument I hear is that women can always travel to the US, but that’s not true. How many women in Cayman cannot travel to the US due to visa requirements, particularly women on the lower side of the socioeconomic scale. In the cases of Rape or Incest, I honestly can’t believe anyone still thinks this is acceptable in 2022, to make a woman or child carry their rapists baby. Rapists get to choose the mother of their child in Cayman I guess. Another tidbit to think about is how crime in the US fell dramatically about 15 years after abortion was legalized, unwanted children grow up to be troubled adults. With the cost of schooling and just food and rent how is any young adult in Cayman supposed to survive if they find themselves pregnant? Even if Cayman just made the abortion pill available for women who were say 16 or even 12 weeks pregnant that would be a huge step in the right direction.
Depends on when. By about 6 months there’s more than one person involved.
I cannot comprehend why cayman doesn’t not have legal abortion. Just means many illegal dangerous ones or people travel to other countries at huge financial cost. Making it illegal does not reduce the number of abortions, so it’s stupid. It’s also stuck in the dark ages. Legalizing it would be another step towards cayman being accepted as a modern, fair country, similar to the gay marriage argument or for example the racial equality fight of decades ago.
Thank you, Honorable Premier.
Honorable? Nothing honorable about murder of innocents.
Time to dissolve PACT.
should not be an issue. morning after pills are sold without prescription.
Exactly, and for under CI$30 without insurance
If we are going to constitutionally guarantee the right to privacy, and the right to family life, then all family planning decisions should remain a choice between individuals and their medical providers.
yayyy
“get rid of the bun for some fun in the sun”
medical tourism slogan
Go to bed, boomer.
I would think if op was a boomer they wouldn’t be saying yay lol fool
Either you’re pro-life or you’re pro-murder. Pick a side.
I’m on team murder if you want to out it that way.
pro murder then 🙂
Pro murder all the way. You want to play, let’s play.
Maybe it’s a bit more nuanced than that?
Oddly enough, all of the pro-lifers in the US are staunch supporters of the death penalty.
Pro-Death
They’re not pro-life. They are pro-birth. There’s a huge difference.
and all the my body – my choice are pro vaccine mandate……
Oddly enough the unborn are the most innocent and vulnerable and need the most protection from sicko’s like you. Imagine wanting to kill someone for the mistake of another.
Idiots like you believe in no consequences for your actions. Please go back to your country of origin.
Exactly. If you take a life then the death penalty is warranted. Hmmmmm.
Really? You think an underage rape victim should be forced to carry her rapists child to term and then dump the unwanted child into the foster care system? How is that a good outcome for anyone?
Think about that !! Did the child deserve to not exist because his/her father was a rapist ? Would you feel the same if you were the product of a rape ?
That’s one of the most mental takes on this I’ve ever read.
Have a good look at yourself in the mirror. There is a reason, a pretty solid reason that abortion is legal where it is, when it is and how it is. Science has worked out that a “baby” isn’t a thing until it is. Hence why they limit the terms.
EVERYTHING else is ridiculous fanatics claiming that day 1 is the same as day 36500. It isn’t.
Get a grip.
Such a twisted thought process. You need help. It’s not your body or child so stop interfering.
So you admit that they’re killing children?
Pro-lifers aren’t pro-life, because as soon as that baby is born, society couldn’t care less. So stop with this self-righteous nonsense. You have no idea why people get abortions, there are MANY different reasons and it is not an easy decision to make, so mind your own business!
Right wing nonsense. It’s actually pro-choice or anti-choice.
Does the woman have freedom to choose everything related to her body or does she not?
If your answer is no, what other freedoms shall we restrict or remove from women?
Disgraceful post, you should be ashamed
How many kids have you adopted or are you fostering right now?
Pro-lifer’s aren’t pro-life, they are pro-birth and then forget about the child. How many pro-lifer’s have adopted abandoned children. How many pro-lifer’s scream NO when proposals providing more services for children like education or nutrition are made? Bunch of hypocrits.
Pro-murder then.
This is such a dishonest argument. You are speaking on behalf of your ideology and not factual evidence. Emotional arguments are terrible at their core.
I would think if op was a boomer they wouldn’t be saying yay lol fool
Here we go