Law reformers open discussion on legal abortion
(CNS): The Law Reform Commission has opened a public consultation on reforming the prohibition in the Cayman Islands on almost all abortions and ending the criminalisation of women who want to terminate their pregnancies when their lives are not necessarily at risk. A new discussion paper released by the LRC in December proposes the first significant reform of the Penal Code in more than 45 years.
The commission aim to ensure that the Cayman Islands Penal Code is compatible with the Bill of Rights and to remove obsolete and archaic provisions. The goal is to modernise the criminal law and the discussions proposed range from increasing the age of criminal responsibility for children to repealing the crime of insulating the modesty of a woman.
While a number of the changes being proposed by the commission will be controversial, the proposition to introduce safe legal abortion is likely to be the most hotly debated. The commissioners are recommending reform but have fallen short of suggesting specific parameters for the law.
Nevertheless, the LRC poses a number of questions for consideration and have pointed to a 2017 change in the law in Australia that decriminalises the act of seeking an abortion. But it still requires a suitably qualified medical practitioner to terminate a pregnancy up to 23 weeks, with regard to all relevant medical circumstances, as well as current and future physical, psychological and social circumstances of the woman. Abortions can only be carried out in Australia after 23 weeks if the woman’s life is at risk.
Currently abortion is illegal in the Cayman Islands, with the only exception being when a pregnancy places a woman’s life in danger. The law criminalises not just the women seeking an abortion but also the doctors that may assist. There are no provisions here for underage girls who may be victims on incest, women who have been raped or in relation to fetal abnormality.
According to research by the commissioners, no one in Cayman has ever been prosecuted for procuring or providing an abortion. But in 2013 the health ministry conducted an adolescent health and sexuality survey where 9.1% of 15-16 year olds and 8.5% of 17-19 year olds admitted to having had an abortion and women here are known to go overseas to terminate their unwanted pregnancies.
Despite the lack of prosecution, the statute still criminalises the procurement of abortion in sections 141, 142 and 143 of the Penal Code, which the commission said raises compatibility issues with Cayman’s own Bill of Rights as well as the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women, which are both extended to the Cayman Islands.
The discussion paper points out the threat to life women face when they do not have access to affordable, legal, safe abortions, given the danger of death and injury when they are forced to seek out unsafe terminations. Criminalising women for seeking or securing an abortion across the modern legal landscape is also considered a form of gender-based violence.
See the full discussion paper in the CNS Library here beginning on page 41.
Members of the public as well as health providers and other stakeholders are asked to submit comment no later than 15 March to the Director of the Law Reform Commission
By hand at
4th Floor Government Administration Building, Portfolio of Legal Affairs
133 Elgin Avenue, George Town, Grand CaymanOr by mail to:
P.O. Box 136, Grand Cayman KY1-900Or email cilawreform@gov.ky
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This Roe v Wade is an idiotic argument. Overturning Roe doesn’t make abortion illegal. It just makes the states decide for themselves what to do. If you live in a blue state you will be able to abort a healthy 9 month old baby if you wish and if you live in a red state then you will not have that luxury. The people will vote and the majority will win. Seems fair to me.
CNS: Read Dear Donald Trump: I’m an OB-GYN. There are no 9-month abortions.
It does not make any sense to me why this hasn’t been legalized yet. If a women wants an abortion dispite it being illegal, it will happen anyway. Take for instance any young women in this country, they become pregnant while using the proper contraception however they do not have money to fly overseas for the procedure… they will still have an abortion because they are not ready for the child, however the procedure will be done illegally. There are also stats to back this claim and teenage girls who kill themselves because they are distraught over their pregnancies. These teenage deaths account for three-eighths of all maternal deaths in El Salvador. Legalizing abortion has nothing to do with your “religion” it’s about the safety of having an abortion. It happens anyway but let’s make it safe for those who cannot escape rape or incest let’s give them a chance to escape an unwanted pregnancy
The screech “It is MY body, and therefore MY choice” is sophomoric at best, dangerous at worst.
If you buy into the “It’s MY choice” argument then you must agree that a woman can invoke that mantra and terminate a viable baby–order the doctor to kill it– anytime prior to delivery. That would be fiendish, but it is after all, THEIR body, their choice. Right? So why not? Same holds true for the anti-vaxers. It’s THEIR body. Right? Only fools would allow that mantra to gain unfettered traction. It is the mantra of undisciplined and utterly selfish people. Then, regarding a foetus there is the equally sophomoronic blabbering that “It is only a collection of cells”. Hmmm?? Well…I kinda think that those who say that might believe that they are a collection of fairy dust but, yup, being a human being, they too are “Only a collection of cells.” (Sooo…Can I do bad things to them and make that argument at my trial?)
I should think that intelligent and logical pro-abortion “collections of cells” should be able to get past these two simplistic parrotings and lend some enlightened input into the debate. Right now, they sound rather like frogs announcing rain: When one starts croaking, they all join in, and they all sound the same.
I hope when the Bill is posted for public consultation/feedback, we all take the time to put in our two cents.
I also hope all can vote on it, ie. the expats that fund the country
Entitled much!?
Fund the country 6:01?
Very well then. It is good that you realise that there is a price that you are willing to pay for the privilege of living in paradise as opposed to the socially bereft, inhumane, violence ridden hellholes from which many of you seek escape here.
You are welcome.
However unless you are willing to pay final tribute and ask for citizenship because you value living here, no thanks: we who value our country do not want you voting here and infecting our lovely islands with your toxic hell hole ideologies. The way you voted back home is one of the reasons you now seek escape here. You may express your opinion; however, we who are citizens will decide our fate. Sit back and enjoy your (voteless) stay in paradise.
It is critical that the wider rationale community start providing louder and more robust consultative input, than the disproportionately minor fringe-right creationist zealot lobbyists. That’s the only way we’ll move out of the 16th Century on contemporaneous discussions on rights.
Abortion law is a joke. It’s similar to not letting women drive in Saudi and making them wear head coverings.
Careful what you wish for.
The “morning after” pill should also be readily available. I understand that it is also illegal. Give women a ‘just in case’ option. Mistakes happen even with married couples.
Is this true! Shocking if so, you can’t get the pill freely in cayman?
No actually you can get plan B in Cayman at OTC pharmacies, it’s just that men can’t purchase it the woman has to.
This IS LEGAL and extremely easy to get from any pharmacy
Exactly what anti-vaxxers say. My Body, My Choice.
Flase equivalence fallacy, one hurts the public while one does not.
Similar to gay couples rights, it is absurd that abortion is illegal in cayman. Women should have the right to own their own bodies. Only when abortion is legal can cayman start to call itself a normal democratic modern country. The abortion law is stuck in the stone ages
It is a bit of a sticky issue this one.
Why is it that anti-abortionists are never seen campaigning for better sex education and birth control? It really seems that they want to control women’s bodies rather actually reducing unwanted pregnancies.
Yes. We need to talk about gender issues, domestic violence, rampant misogyny, religious political interference/systemic obstruction, time and access to reproductive education and birth control, child support/deadbeat dads, mental health and drug rehab access, the parole board (and probably the DPP’s office), alcoholism, known gangs, leaderships, and the unacknowledged transshipment economy. Many of our social issues are cross-related and stem from destructive inter-generational patterns, supported via boys club cronyism, and political/law enforcement window-dressing.
It’s the Caribbean way – barefoot, pregnant and with other children keeps the women folk quiet and under control. That and a few beatings. Meanwhile, the churches stay silent on the matter. Those who oppose abortion often have an agenda beyond religious beliefs.
Adoption over abortion any day. Stop killing our babies. This opens the door to more nefarious things. Why are they so blinded by Evil? I ask the Government to help save the souls of Cayman and also save their own souls in the end. Do not yield to the Cabal.
Oh please. You assume women should just have unwanted babies and there is a constant queue to adopt them? It’s not even a baby until about 25 weeks or something, just a collection of cells.
Are you currently ready to adopt a genetically deformed child because the mother’s uncle raped her at age 16?
This is reality, and many abortions are needed/performed for reasons like these. I’m vocal about women’s rights because that same situation happened to my childhood best friend!
But no, you’d rather her carry that traumatic reminder that could cause her death in labor because your sky fairy endorses rape in bible as long as the man marries the victim.
Comment of the day
Agree with everything you said, except you do the cause a disservice by insulting religion. Sort of like gay marriage, we can use logic to determine a course, but to insult religion disenfranchises some of those who might be in your corner.
Your last sentence presumes that everyone with God in their lives automatically is against abortion. You paint with a broad brush, and such statements cause unnecessary polarisation.
@10:33am:
What about being conceived as a result of rape makes the unborn less worthy to live than one conceived otherwise?
To 2:01am: FACTS: If a pregnancy is terminated willingly by a mother and done by a professional within six weeks of inception, the procedure takes all of 15 minutes and the recovery time is a week. There is no mental or physical trauma and very low possibility of conception problems in the future.
With an adoption, there is always the guilt and the wondering: Is the child doing well? Are they being loved – or abused in any way? Where is the child? etc.; so for many, terminating is healthier than putting up for adoption.
I will leave with this comment here…in the end God will be the final judge, after all everyone thinks they have a right over their body to abort another life, but others are mandated to take a experimental injection branded a “vaccine” against their will, whilst their right to earn a living is held hostage, yet these fundamentals rights are discarded but now on the other hand females should have full autonomy of their bodies to abort babies if they wants to…all I hope is that it only available to the “vaccinated” pro-jabbers, bcus it’s all about killing/culling anyways so go ahead a fill their agenda….poor foolish ones
Excellent point. I assume all anti vaccine people are also pro abortion. There is no difference to saying ‘you cannot force me to get vaccinated’ from saying ‘you cannot prevent me from having an abortion’.
And shall we likewise proffer that all pro-abortion people should agree with the anti-vaxer “my body, my choice” theme? There is no difference between saying ‘you cannot prevent me from having an abortion’ and ‘you cannot force me to get vaccinated’. Right?
But what about those of us who believe in science and not a god?
The argument is not winnable. Ultimately when the question “How did it all begin?” is asked, neither the believer in science not the believer in a creator God is expressing any less faith. Scientific theory about the origin of the universe is an excellent example of the statement “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”. No one in the science can observe or come up with a model of what was there a millisecond before the so called “Singularity” burst forth into an infant universe. Regardless your haughty arrogance, ultimately both your science-based belief and the intelligent design belief rely on no more nor any less degrees of pure faith. Perhaps the Singularity was God? No one can prove either for or against that moot. Both origin/creation narratives presuppose an eternal existence of the source of the universe and neither side can prove their faith. Since there is not a unifying theory that combines both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, we can not apply science to the state of the universe prior to its existence nor how it came to be. Nor can science explain their blind faith in inflationary cosmology. Likewise, the Believer cannot prove the existence of God. If you study cosmology will clearly see that the word “singularity” is the scientific way to say “Our theories completely fail here, so something we don’t understand was going on”. In other words, ultimately, blind faith. To get back to your question: But what about those of you who believe in science and not a god? The best answer is we will leave you to your unprovable faith-based belief and you can leave us to our unprovable faith based belief. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No fault, no foul.
I don’t think we should mix subjects. It muddies the waters and makes discussion difficult and takes it off-topic. In this section, we should be talking about abortion. Other stories deal with vaccination.
I hate to say it this way, but dear, you sound like you are ranting. Can’t we just talk about things without standing on a pulpit? I have God in my life, but you are not my representative. Not even close.
It is very convenient to say that an unborn baby is not a person in order to justify legalization of abortion. At what point can we reasonably say a baby is a life–or not a life for that matter? Certainly babies are alive well before delivery; babies survive who are born months prematurely. To use the “my body” line is to ignore the body (and life) of the unborn baby. This, too, is convenient since the unborn cannot speak for themselves nor defend themselves. When legalized abortion was all the rage nearly 50 years ago in some developed countries, the technology was not there to debunk the “mass of cells” justification. Technology and science today have given us much more information on life in the womb. As we like to say, “Go by the science.” That is, the current science, not the science of nearly a half century ago. Human life at any stage is precious, and our laws should continue to protect it.
“This, too, is convenient since the unborn cannot speak for themselves nor defend themselves.”
then lets make the change that a foetus only is defined as a baby when it can speak for itself or can defend themselves.
The statistics cited in the article seem to suggest that, even though illegal, abortion here is not at all rare.
Completely against this. Only in instances of rape or incest.
You male or female? Actually, that doesn’t even matter. If you don’t want an abortion, that’s fine. If anyone else does, it’s really nothing to do with you.
Great point. Why do
People get involved in other peoples choices? How does an abortion impact anyone unknown to the woman aborting?
It impacts the baby rather dramatically.
What about when the baby may have disabilities or be deformed: surely it’s fair to include that with your incest and rape exceptions? For example Down’s syndrome and things?
Having a child with Down Syndrome is not the end of the world. Maybe some disease that they will suffer with uncontrollably but then again I know someone who was told that by a doctor and nothing was wrong with her child.
If you legalize it, I hope you are planning on having the appropriate mental health services for the woman. I don’t know of any woman who has had one and didn’t live with the hurt and guilt afterwards.
Perhaps there are some that can walk away and never think of it again, but that isn’t what I have seen.
@mental Health – I’ve had two. Had to leave island for both at a very young age. Maybe if I had been provided sex education and birth control I would not have had to go through the stress a taking a trip to Miami, trying to find the money and hiding from my mother why as traveling. No teenager should have to go through that alone.
I never felt any guilt about doing what was best for me.
If I had to make choices to make again, I would make that same choices.
It took you two times to understand how you got pregnant???????
@ yikes – no, after the first time I got raped by my uncle and got pregnant I figured it out. Unfortunately, at 16 I didn’t have access to birth control.
2nd time I got raped and got pregnant, I thought about asking my uncle to use a condom……but from everything I had read about rape cases that actually made it to court…asking your rapist to wear a condom pretty much amounted to consent. So I didn’t want to go that route either.
I couldn’t get the support of my own family when I was raped the first time. I had no one to talk to or to go to for help.
And whether I was raped or not, it is my choice whether I want to bring a child into this world or not.
So, do not dare judgement me. It is people like you, you judge people yet offer no solutions to a problem. You, are a part of the problem.
Don’t try and make me feel bad about my decisions, because you won’t. I will not allow you to make me feel ashamed of myself, as if I did something wrong.
Abortion is health care. And every woman has a right to health care.
You have the right to choose how to live your life and I am pretty sure you would have zero hesitation in tearing down someone who tried to tell you how to live it.
So before you jump on that high and mighty horse of yours, how about you think about whether MY life choices are any of yours business.
That’s right….they are not.
So stop trying to push your morality on me. My life choices have absolutely nothing to do with you.
And let me be VERY clear, I would have made the same choice whether or not I had gotten pregnant by rape.
Teach sex-education in the schools, stop putting the responsibility on women for birth control, PROVIDE birth control in the schools. For boys and girls.
Kid are having sex, whether you like it or not. Why should they pay for it by getting a STD or becoming pregnant because of something that you find morally wrong.
No one is forcing you to have or not to have children. You have that choice. I, and other woman, should also have access to safe abortion(s) if that is our choice.
Now, try to go the rest of the day without judging someone that you absolutely do not know anything about their life.
I’m so sorry you had to endure that. I wish nothing but hell on your uncle and hope he rots.
And to hell with the family that didn’t support you.
Mental Health: I left the island to have one when I was 27 because I absolutely did not want a child. I had a ‘medical abortion’ as opposed to a surgical one. It was quite an unpleasant experience but I didn’t suffer mentally at all, then or after. I’m now in my 40s and have never regretted my decision and rarely, if ever think about it. I know several other women who have had abortions and not suffered mentally because of it. Your comment ‘I don’t know any woman who has had one and didn’t live with the hurt and guilt afterwards’ is rubbish. Do you go around asking multiple women if they have had one? What’s your sample size? It’s like society assumes that women must feel guilt for making a personal choice. Not a word said about whether the potential fathers in question feel ‘hurt or guilt’…
To Mental Health 8:18 pm: Me. Now you know one. No regrets whatsoever.
Barring religion, abortion isn’t a big issue to educated people!
Brainwashed murdering people are so intelligent right?
Love the irony of this comment. An anti abortionist religious zealot accusing other people of being ‘brainwashed’. LMAO. Sums up all that is wrong with the world.
Agree. Always found it strange how it is such a polarizing issue in US elections. I’m from the Uk, always found it bizarre as never met anyone anti abortion in the Uk in my 48 years, and we find it so odd that it is illegal in cayman.
Catholic priests don’t need to worry about abortion…
LOL
This opportunity for law reform should be available for some public input. For example, a person who simply forgets to renew vehicle insurance by a few days (it happens) is, by law, subject to the same penalty as someone who is intentionally DUI – mandatory one year d/l suspension (it happened)! Or, by law, Customs duties include insurance charges on any import even after such import is safely on-island, when any matter of insurance is between you and your shipper. Does HM Customs have a financial institution license so as to collect insurance fees?? Try claiming to HM Customs if your car gets damaged in shipping?! These are just two of perhaps hundreds! Some laws and regulations here, apart from being archaic, foster increased costs of living because they “over-regulate”, and the costs to comply with some unnecessary crap is passed on to everyone.
Laws like that are absurd and our penal code and other laws are full of that kind of donkey dung! They need a good gutting!
Public input please, CIG!
Yep. My car was damaged upon arrival by staff driving it on the dock. $600+ in damages. They paid $150
OMG! All the drama that the US had/has again? Perhaps referenda or one referendum…abortion, weed, national lottery, etc…?
It’s not like abortions haven’t happened in Cayman over the years and perhaps….Anyway, thank God? Hmmm..
I just love the argument that comes from the anti-vaxxers (to which their perfectly entitled) ‘you can’t tell me what to do with my body’ but abortion rights, no that’s another story.
In this day and age why is this even a discussion ? 🤯
Instead of killing babies, why don’t they just pass a law for a 24hr purge just like the movie.
There are a lot of fully grown people here on island that deserves this more than an innocent soul, and plenty of no good mofos here that I personally wouldn’t mind giving it to that means no good to this world.
Like most of the commenters here on CNS have proven my point.
You sound like an idiot.
Take your religious dicta to church and leave those grounding in reality alone.
If you can fly away and get one why do you really need to change the law?
Partially because we are tired of the self righteousness, bigotry and hypocrisy.
It happens, Caymanians do it then go to church the next day.
Why try to pretend it’s not a thing by having yet another law that is never enforced?
You have significant mental issues that need treatment.
Doesn’t make it right.
Lol. Pot/kettle.
Not everyone can afford that luxury 3:17.
Simple Rod Bodden, not everyone who is a teenage woman can afford to fly away.
Get with it Bobo Bodden.
So we killing babies now…?
Idiot. Read the article. Not a baby early on, its a cluster of cells.
So then tell that to every woman or man expecting that they can’t say they are having a baby….bcus it’s just a cluster of cells early on so they have to wait and see if it’s gonna be a baby later on and if it remains a cluster of cells still they can abort it and try again until they get it right; they actually made a “baby”. Some ppl really types words to show their brain are not developed fully, still “just a cluster of cells”!!!
1 in 3 pregnancies are a miscarriage, I think the parents you are talking about are very aware, doesn’t take away their right to terminate if they want to.
Why is this person an idiot? Because they don’t agree with you? Life begins at conception. That is what I believe. The heart beat can be heard as early as 5 weeks gestation. It comes down to legal argument and, yes, your faith. If it’s a life, then taking it is murder. Simple.
@5:32am..I’ll bet $100 you are an anti-vaxxer..My body, my choice. Only applies when it is convenient huh?
We find Bactria on a planet in space and call it Life – yet a child in a womb is a cluster of cells…?
Arent we all clusters of cells???? or are you made of something else?
Idiot. The cayman abortion law currently is a disgrace. Why should a couple or a woman not be able to choose to abortion a collection of cells that is not yet a real human? 20 weeks would be a fair limit
Cayman gone!
Might help with the crime situation around here, only takes 15-20 years…
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion-and-crime-revisited/
Kinda weirdo you gotta be to think crime statistics is a justification for baby murder?
Pity it wasn’t available in West Bay some 60 years ago.
lmao
It is past time for these changes to be made to our laws.
I guess PACT will want to have a referendum on this one.
Having to travel abroad is ridiculous. Time to get with the rest of the developed world.
As soon as there is a heartbeat its too late to abort… you’re just killing a human being who happens to be young and located in a womb.
As soon as the cell divides life has begun. Remember it is mankind that has decided when to abort which is just a nicer way of saying kill.
I figured this would get a lot of dislikes, but like someone pointed out before me, the more dislikes simply means the truth hurts.
So are you seriously saying that a 5 week fetus in the womb should have more rights afforded to it than the woman who carries it?
Ahh here we are again, women defending our right to our own god damn bodies and getting shoved down the order of importance in the pecking order.
NOBODY should get a say in what happens to a woman’s body EXCEPT THAT WOMAN.
Where are all the “my body, my choice” anti-vaccers now?
Im getting tired of Western politics being imported over here. We all know where this is going anyway, there once was a time when abortions were supposed to be safe, legal and ‘rare’.
Regardless of the stage of its development, we dont end human life here. Make better choices.
3:20 Brace yourself for this revelation… we are part of the West. Does the name West Indies ring a bell?
But you are a British territory!?
This would be a massive step forward. Women should have the right to choose! Our bodies our choice. Leave religion out of it.
Absolutely! My body, my choice! If you want to have a baby, that’s o.k. with me. If you don’t want to have a baby, the choice should still be yours to decide. No one should have the authority to control you from making your choice.
None of your considerations on rights matter. The only issue that matters concerning abortion is if its a human baby or not. If it is, you can’t kill it, that simple.
2:16 exactly! Plus you don’t always know the circumstances behind someone wanting to get an abortion. The women in question might have been raped. I know women who have lost children late-stage due to complications and don’t want to go through the pain of losing one again. No one has the right to dictate what a woman does with her body. We can take precautions all we want by using birth control but they aren’t always guaranteed to work.
Exactly what anti-vaxxers say. My Body, My Choice.
Save for the case of rape, why don’t you make the right choice when you have unprotected sex?
3:36 because no form of contraception is 100% guaranteed. What an ignorant comment.
Ignorant, eh…guess abstinence never worked for the fools who tried it…I mean it only is 1)no worry about unwanted pregnancy 2)no STDs 3)no drama abt giving your body to someone with your heart attached to all the feelings that’s termed love 4)sleeping with a bunch of one night stands that only gets girls/women branded as a whore/slut afterwards
5) waking up the next day regretting you slept with the most unsuitable person ever!!
spoken truth that still doesn’t prove anything… my point is that contraception is not 100% effective. You are assuming everyone who gets pregnant isn’t using some form of contraception? I grant you there are many idiots who don’t but that is not a good enough argument to make abortion illegal for everyone.
Silly comment. You need multiple sexual partners before you find the right one for you and get married
Religion can be left out of it, but compassion for life can’t.
Except when you have have the government telling you must take a vaccine, you know, for the other guy.
I had mine done in Colombia. Three for the price of two special, got my vagina tightened back up and my boobs done same trip.
Sure lets start mass homicide. We are already headed down the path to hell…let’s speed things up.
I got pregnant at 18 right before I was to leave home for university.. young and dumb I know. I got my abortion in the same state right before my first semester started.
I went on to get my degree, and returned home to the same partner. We got married, have budding careers, are paying off our own home, and now have 2 healthy twins.
It isn’t about “homicide”, but rather, sometimes it just isn’t the right time or even with the right partner. I’m able to give my children a much better and secure upbringing now.
Evidently, keeping it illegal here just puts up a small barrier that can be easily hopped – and if you don’t have the finances to travel abroad for a medical procedure you are likely NOT ready to raise children. The same can be said about the illegality of marijuana because my neighbor enjoys it on a nightly basis.
Meanwhile, there are married couples everywhere clamoring to adopt a baby. Finances? Seriously? Churches, adoption services, prospective parents would all be there to help. And whether or not you are “ready” to raise children should not be litmus test to such a decision. Where are the “people over profit” crowd that is always tooting their horn on CNS?
Why shouldn’t being “ready” to raise children be a factor in whether you have them? People should want to be ready before they have children so they can actually raise them right. As for the people clamoring to adopt babies, where are they? If that many existed there would be no children in Foster Care.
What churches? Didn’t see any of them at my doorstep offering to help me when I lost my husband and ended up being a single mother lost and confused and not knowing what to do.
Women control their own bodies, and if something is growing inside of them that they do not want inside of them, it is most definitely their right to get rid of it. You have zero say in what someone can do with their body.
Perhaps…but what about the baby’s body?
The father should play an equal role in the decision making. He play one in the conception after all.
*Someone is growing inside you
Not something
Legalize or continue to turn a blind eye? Not much of a choice really.