CIG coronavirus response saved lives
‘BTC is King and ETH is Queen’ writes: I’m a bit perplexed by the response from some posters in many CNS articles, specifically as they pertain to the government’s response to Covid-19. To begin, I don’t like Alden, I don’t like any of his cronies, nor most politicians here or abroad. I have some respect for Ezzard, who seems to be the only one trying to better the lives of the Caymanian population but who, unfortunately, seems to always be fighting an uphill battle.
For the most part, I have a very healthy skepticism towards government (all governments, here and abroad), and that’s putting it mildly. Better put, government is an entity of vultures, scorpions and jackals disguised as benevolent overseers. “Don’t worry, we know what’s best for you” is their motto as they turn their knives into your back. In general, the less I see and hear of government, the less government interferes and intervenes in our lives, the better. And to finally put things into perspective, I am not son of soil and do not have status.
My puzzlement has to do with people’s dissatisfaction with being told to quarantine. I imagine that there are ways to do it better than it’s been done, and that looser controls could possibly have been applied. There are a number of issues, however, that prevent government from doing this, particularly as it applies to the Cayman Islands and the Western world, specifically that the citizenry is not disciplined enough.
Opposite to this is the Japanese, Singaporean, South Korean, etc. citizenry that respects government and obeys its wishes, often simply out of respect. There’s also China, Cuba, North Korea, Russia and other countries where its citizenry respect government’s wishes out of fear.
In the Cayman islands and the Western world, there is often neither respect nor fear. So when government tells you that you can do this but you can’t do that, many will listen but far too many will not. Too many who are given an inch will take a yard. And the fact is, this virus is unforgivable; small mistakes amount to many deaths of innocent people.
The fact that the Cayman Islands were not poorly affected by this has to do with government’s immediate response. The Caymanian people and the expats residing on the islands are no more special than other people around the world. I don’t trust stats from Russia, China, Iran or some other places, but if we were to look at stats from the Western world, the news is grim.
Even with quarantines all around the world, Italy and Spain had 1000+ deaths/day, so many in fact that cemeteries and mortuaries could not cope. In Iran and other countries, the dead were buried in mass graves. The US has had as high as 2000+ deaths per day. Today’s stats show that the US lost 1,750 people in one day. Spain lost 281, Italy 269, the UK 740. Sweden lost 67.
Per million, the Swedes are losing approximately 263 people compared to 90 in Canada, where quarantines are much tighter, and 198 in the US, where quarantines differ in how they’re enforced. One could argue that the Swedes are far healthier than the US population, which is on the higher scale of unhealthy, and also healthier than Canadians.
The Swedish healthcare system is also better than the Canadian, though I’m not sure how it compares to the US. So why is there such a difference between Sweden and Canada when it comes to dead per million? The reason for that is that Sweden’s quarantines are far less stringent than Canadian ones. It’s that simple.
So when I read all these comments about how and why the Cayman Island government is doing this or that, I wonder if too many of you had too much time to read conspiracy theories. There are no conspiracies, and if you feel that there are, please explain them. The quarantines will eventually be lifted. You are not, and will not be, subjugated to the “system”. And no, it’s not practice for the eventual “takeover”. If you feel differently, please explain. We’d love to hear your theories.
The Cayman government has been keeping some of your donkey a$$es at home in order to protect you from yourselves. Apologies for the crude language but there is no better way to put that. Do you truly think that you’re truly much healthier than the US, Canadian or Swedish populations, or that somehow you are special that this virus would not affect you?
The only reason you were not poorly affected by this virus is because of the measures that government took. Even if government had relaxed measures earlier, do you think that would have done you much good when the rest of the world is shut down, or do you somehow think that you operate in a vacuum and that what happens outside does not affect you? Yes, you may have made an extra $250 for the week, but would have potentially paid for it with your behind or your grandma’s behind in the hospital or mortuary.
Based on the stats (averages of millions per death of Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Canada, US, Italy, UK, Spain and France) the Cayman Islands (took population as 70,000) should have lost 23.10 people even with quarantines in place, much more without quarantines.
It’s a miracle and somewhat of a tribute to government’s actions that the Cayman Islands lost one person, a non-resident. Even if, with restrictions lifted, you would only lose 23 people (I would argue that the number would be much closer to 230-500 had restrictions not been put into place), please put up your hand to volunteer to be one of the 23… or one of the 500.
- Fascinated
- Happy
- Sad
- Angry
- Bored
- Afraid
Category: Health, Medical Health, Viewpoint
Obesity and diabetes are co-morbidity factors. They make it more likely you’ll die if you catch this.
How many Caymanians are obese or diabetic compared to, say, Filipinos or Koreans?
Don’t just assume that no one would die here or become very seriously ill.
At this moment my son’s father-in-law, in London, has been in intensive care for over a month. Most of this time on a ventilator. He’s slightly diabetic but otherwise slim.
How many in Cayman would like to volunteer for that?
John, that’s why for the most part I don’t even bother with some of the Negative Nigels on this site. This has the potential to spread like wildfire if left unchecked. As you suggest, the biggest factor from what I understand is obesity, followed by hypertension and diabetes. Some doctors/scientists suggest that it may be an endothelial disease. Long story short, not a good thing to catch at any age, but especially once you get into your 40s and higher…especially if you have any of those conditions.
Apologies for coming across as inconsiderate in my last…wishing your son’s father-in-law the very best.
The author of the article is obviously one very arrogant individual who overrates her/his intelligence and looks down on others. Most of the article is garbage reasoning, with confirmation bias present throughout. The weakness of the intellect is evidenced by the screaming and name-calling. But there are countless more like this author who get lots of power when given the anonymity of your forum. I like it too, but at least I would not so readily denigrate others for their point of view or make up conclusions based on erroneous assumptions and flawed reasoning. And there is never an excuse for screaming unless there is a fire or other immediate emergency. For that, you call 911.
A prime example of the mental health issues that arise during quarantines.
An well versed article for discussion but I feel it falls into what most of the arguments for ‘strict lockdown’ and ‘prevention’ relate to with the view limited and bounded simply by fatality and the convenience of a purpose to save lives coming into topic now that its in all our faces. Previously I’ve posted that annually 1 million children under 5 die from from preventable acute respiratory infections and this being a tolerable marker, – respectfully your article could be tagged as selfish, blinkered and luxurious that eradication has achieved anything on scale of long term attainment and ignorant of the more significant global humanity which has been present long before this crisis.
From a WHO’s article on The Global Impact of Respiratory Disease,
‘For decades, acute lower respiratory tract infections have been among the top three causes of death and disability among both children and adults. Although the burden is difficult to quantify, it is estimated that lower respiratory tract infection causes nearly 4 million deaths annually and is a leading cause of death among children under 5 years old [6]. Moreover, acute lower respiratory tract infections in children predispose for chronic respiratory diseases later in life. Respiratory tract infections caused by influenza kill between 250,000 and 500,000 people and cost between US$71 and 167 billion annually [7]
I will grant you that the Swedish population dynamics with adhering to a self taken responsibility in social distancing and Govt recommendations is something probably lacking here. With that said, ours is not strictly a ‘people problem’, its a Govt problem laden with ingrained cronyism (Mr Speaker), corruption (paving driveways in the Brac), ignorance of the majority of electorates wishes, (the Port) just to name a few. The spat with our Premier and MOH being the most recent issue underlying the populations contempt in one rule for us, another rule for the other, – leading by example in this fashion our Govt has been handicapped for years before they even start.
From your Viewpoint, ‘The only reason you were not poorly affected by this virus is because of the measures that government took’, – short sighted perspective. If not already, not doubt in the coming weeks, months and very probable years, any such assertion is not going to be highly regarded by those who can’t put food on the table, have had their lives and those of their families turned upside down with no relief in the foreseeable future. I’ll concede some may have evaded short term fatality from the disease but how many may die further down the road as result of the ramifications endured following the strict lockdown and the consequences there of. There will no doubt be an inability to obtain medical needs both locally and specialized offshore facilities due to a lack of finances, the cessation of medical insurance, costly prescriptions, depression, antibiotics for other infections, etc etc. Rather than jumping on what a great job our Govt has done for the very short, yes term they have) lets focus on the broader picture of relatable deaths from outdoor air pollution. From WHO again, its estimated air pollution kills 4.2 million people a year with 9 out of 10 people breathing air containing high levels of pollutants. Before you dismiss that look for a recent article in The Compass that registered areas of Georgetown and SMB having the equivalent pollution as that of central London and of course the dump fires. I read the article, I’m still alive, so easily dismissed. COVID 19 though, not so much even though the annual death toll is likely to be way below 4.2 million.
The crisis of COVID 19 is very much more than simply people dying due to an infectious disease, – at its root the crisis is a combination of people dying in significant numbers within a very short space of time, and Governments around the World throwing their hands up ‘we can’t cope, we don’t have a system in place to deal with this’. Its a new virus, of course they don’t, but at the same time don’t fool yourselves into thinking we’ve beaten it by eradication and all we have to do now is wait it out for the arrival of a vaccine. A vaccine is going to be a long time coming on many levels. Firstly there’s the possibility it may not even happen, then the sheer time scale it takes to develop it, trials etc. and how do you think its going to be administered ? It will take years to get it to the population just because of the enormity of the task in trying to manufacture it in volume and then inoculate a world population. Bear in mind Cayman was ‘wheeling and dealing’ in a desperate attempt a long way down the list just to obtain test kits, we certainly won’t be front runners for vials of the antidote.
What Sweden has done appears to be exemplary, New Zealand to be admired as well and each situation is different. If we’ve learned anything to date it should be that the model of any one Country shouldn’t be followed explicitly, but the concept taken and adapted. Cayman had the perfect opportunity to adapt both countries strategies with an end result being able to enter the World once the virus took a downward turn. Although its to early to say due to limited studies it looks like once COVID 19 has been contracted and survived antibodies are made to create immunity. Only today its reported that the UK Govt is talking with a tech company to produce ‘health passports’ to help Britons return to work, those that show antibodies would be fast tracked in getting to the workplace. Of course it’s only speculation but the obvious next step would be to introduce such a system for global travel and then ultimately tourism, it will be the interim ticket to normalcy. Guess what Cayman, we don’t and won’t have anything and so for now grab a chair for at least the next 12-18mths staying tuned to the local/global media broadcasts. We’ve got the time so maybe start looking for further philanthropy if we’re ever going to get a look at a vaccine if the fight for top spot in the world falls into place. (fourth article below)
https://www.who.int/gard/publications/The_Global_Impact_of_Respiratory_Disease.pdf
https://www.who.int/health-topics/air-pollution#tab=tab_1
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2020/04/23/coronavirus-vaccine-makers-covid-19-crisis/2983177001/
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/03/coronavirus-vaccine-trump-world-brawl-230142
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/03/coronavirus-health-passports-for-uk-possible-in-months
Facial biometrics ? Health passports? Mandatory vaccinations? …introduce such a system for global traveling….take me back to 18th century, please
‘take me back to the 18th Century, please’
I like it, I like it even more that we may have stumbled upon a Nations ‘time century paradox’ of pandemic learning.. – well done, well done indeed 👍
‘In the 1700s-1800s, dysentery was a disease causing many deaths. In fact, in some areas in Sweden 90 percent of all deaths were due to dysentery during the worst outbreaks’
I understand a lot of the restrictions put in place, but the one I don’t get is why we can’t exercise on Sunday’s? That one feels like house arrest for everyone one day a week. You can’t drive to exercise, so no cars on the road, or additional work for the Police, what am I missing?
Alden just wants to ruin Mother’s Day for all.
Right….
it saved the lives of the absolutely “no ones” that got seriously ill (more than a flu) from Covid-19.. I have never seen this level of bullshit around this hysterical panicdemic
WHERE ARE THE SICK PEOPLE?? Where are the dead people? NO WHERE! What IS happening, is people are getting decimated by these self important morons in power.
At the rate that this virus supposedly spreads (almost 3 infections-1 according to the CDC)
Cayman should have thousands sick and many dead, had this virus been what they claimed it was!
No one is sick or dying because this shutdown that started in f*ing mid MARCH?? With hundreds of thousands of tourists in boats and planes coming here in a 3 mile area, right when the peak of the virus spreading world wide back in January/February!?
PLEASE!!! GTFOH! We probably have a shitload of people that got sick from this virus and just went on their merry way once they got over it.
Bunch of LIARS!!
Wow, seems like you need to get out a bit more. Or fill up that glass a bit higher…
They can’t get out more. They’re not allowed!
Just to shoot down, once again, the absurd 1000 or in the case of this article 500 potential deaths, absurd numbers that are still being used to scare people into accepting this police state. This is a real epidemiologist, from maybe the best university on the planet, not just someone who plays one on CIG TV. https://youtu.be/T-saAuXaPok The truth will set you free… well maybe not on this island, but…
Almost everyone who dies of the Wuhan China virus has huge co morbidity factors. The victim either is aged, or suffering from another condition that will hasten his death absent the virus. Compare the 23 potential Cayman deaths that the author claims to the number of Caymanians that the quarantine will kill through suicide, alcohol and drug abuse, overeating, domestic abuse, worry and stress, and then, when the inevitable poverty ensues, malnutrition. Also, the foolish quarantine policy is preserving a population that will be susceptible to this China virus if just one future tourist ever gets off a plane with the virus. No more tourism, ever. The shutdown is the wrong policy. Making Cayman into a combination of Venezuela and North Korea is not the answer to the China virus problem.
Exactly. Thank you. Yet alden continues to spread fear.
Wow you’re really drinking Trump’s kool-aid huh?
I just can’t understand people like you it makes me so sad.
The virus is proven to have existed in France in Dec 19, before the first reported case in China. So does that make it the French virus now?
“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery” – Thomas Jefferson
“I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.” James Madison,
Are you seriously comparing our current situation with regards to curfews imposed in order to try and save lives to SLAVERY?
Shame on you.
Right now I would rather be picking cotton in a field all day than this shit.
I agree herd immunity is valuable in the next stage of this fight. But the Govrrnment has taken an approach that ensured the Health System did not get overloaded with cases of the virus. The fight is not over and we must not be complacent against this disease. As we open up the economy, let us rebuild a stronger and more sustainable economy.
You’re kidding, right!? You compare apples and oranges, use data in a vacuum and discount the lives being destroyed by unnecessary measures. You postulate that up to 500 people would have died without a curfew, which has no basis in fact. Listen, obviously this isn’t an obvious situation, but to excuse the asinine trampling of civil rights by government, when data clearly shows that isolation is statistically irrelevant (don’t compare Canada to Sweden, compare Ireland to Sweden for context) and to repeatedly and purposefully discount the assertion by many that isolation of ‘at risk’ people would have probably totally eliminated the threat of deaths, it’s all fodder for the sheep. We were told the a police state was necessary to flatten the curve. There never was a curve, so what’s the excuse now. You hide if you’re a coward. Stop forcing everyone else to drink your cool aid
So what you’re saying is that the thousands who died per day as a result of Covid 19 are just a figment of people’s imaginations? Did the little green men whisper that while you were having your little beauty nap? Who is drinking what Cool Aid? More importantly however, what you’re saying is that all the experts in the world got this wrong, and that you Monsieur Savant Majeur got it right. Wow! Look Ma, I’m talking to the world’s preeminent authority on Covid 19 and what a shining star he is!
Fake numbers you imbecile. Media does this type of crap all the time. Exaggerates the facts. And with medical examiners being told to put covid19 as a cause of death for any cold like system they had before dieing. Numbers.
Asshole alert
Thanks for saying that this entire process was a hoax in a sense, as a way for governments around the world to turn their populations into sheeple.
It obvious and the CI government continues this madness. Great job Alden and team!👏👏👏
There is a tendency to refer to ‘death rate’ with a certain amount of detachment that boarders on egocentricity. No life is less than this virus!
Any one who dies of this virus in Cayman Islands would have had neighbors, loved ones or coworkers that we can relate to in these Isles
That makes our situation unique. Unlike NY and Italy etc
Data is great, but reality of our circumstance is a master!
Kudos to Alden and his team👌
If I might add, I am NOT a Caymanian, but I love this country which I call home, and work tirelessly everyday to contribute to its ability to remain relevant as a nation.
I believe that can be likened to ‘native’ or even more.
Nationalistic tendency does not always equate altruism or patriotism
So what’s the plan? Given that there is zero immunity in the community and zero chance of the virus going away in the rest of the world Cayman is shut for the foreseeable future.
No tourists. No overseas trips. No new businesses. No demand for new housing. Huge drops in demand for all other goods and services.
Seems like sticking the head in the sand and retreating from the world was a pretty risky decision that is already backfiring. Especially in light of the Swedish experience.
Alden has no plan
Neither does the know-it-all joe public !
He’d be better off getting our input. Maybe we have an idea he hasn’t thought of? No he just wants to call us spoiled brat’s instead of treating us like equals.
And as import and stamp duties plummet, there may not be enough money to pay all those government salaries. It’s coming.
can’t come soon enough
Not defending government, but no tourists and no overseas trips is not government’s fault. The entire world is shut down and has been shut down for the past month(s). Even if the CI were open for tourism, few if any would have come; and certainly not enough to make up for the risk.
Re. Sweden. Sweden practiced a more relaxed style system of quarantine, but they quarantined and socially-distanced nonetheless. One could argue that what they did was completely foolish and that they played with their citizens’ lives. The reason most countries went into full lock-down mode is because they had no idea what they were facing. There was reason to believe at one point that the CFR (Case Fatality Rate) was closer to 4%, and not the 1% (or perhaps less) than what it turned out to be. At 4%, US deaths could have been as high as 14 million people. So what is the most prudent approach, sail straight into a hurricane that you don’t understand at all, or try to sail around it?
You are right, we will still most likely have to sail through it, but at least now, we have a much better understanding of it, we will know to leave the elderly and the compromised behind (in quarantine), and we’re a few steps closer to a possible vaccine and possibly an antiviral that works…and the hurricane may have downgraded. Not a perfect solution, but certainly better than taking a full-on risk with peoples’ lives.
That’s exactly right. The government has painted the Caymanian people into an untenable corner. The few cheerleaders left, with any conviction that curfews work, present arguments that get thinner by the minute. All you have to do to discredit them is to use the worst case scenario of 600 deaths per million. Do the math… the suggestion that Cayman would have seen 1000 deaths is obviously fraudulent. Like many who have done so before me, even though my business is still doing fine, I’m talking my family away from here. The future for Cayman has become bleak, the society we enjoyed is forever changed, and the opportunity here no longer justifies the cost of living. What took years to build, Alden has destroyed in a month for thousands of families.
Gotta do what you think is best for your family. I for one think this place is still going to be OK. Not right away by any stretch and maybe not the craziness that it was before, but I’d be happier if it wasn’t the crazy it was before. If we could go back to about 10 years ago, I’d be thrilled.
I’m also happy not fake hugging people like they’re my best buddies especially when I saw them the previous day.
Very good article. And I agree with most of it.
However, did I read a post that says something to the effect that “even the CDC agrees” that the death rate of Covid-19 was less than the flu? And that the death rate was low? Really? I have never seen that. Here is a comment I just picked up from an article in the Washington Post:
“Using an apples-to-apples comparison, we can say that the coronavirus and the disease it causes, covid-19, have already killed eight times as many people as the flu. By the time we get data for the entire season, the difference appears likely to be at least tenfold, or a full order of magnitude.”
To underscore it, the article quoted a Dr Jeremy Samuel Faust, an emergency medicine physician at Harvard Medical School: “The coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse.”
I believe that Alden made the best judgment. He bought us some time to allow for the possibility of some breakthrough medical intervention, whether a vaccine or treatment.
I prefer to take my chances on those possibilities rather than adopt a fatalistic attitude that the only answer is herd immunity and that sooner or later some people will have to die to achieve that.
I remember when HIV came on the scene and it was a virtual death sentence. Today people with HIV can live a norma life span. And with the whole world racing to find breakthrough interventions, I think it will be much sooner than later.
Coronavirus is not HIV. Not even close.
Though some scientists are comparing it to HIV in the way that it acts.
How many years did it take to achieve effective HIV treatments?
“No tourists. No overseas trips.”
What country is allowing people from Cayman to enter, and how is the CIG supposed to get those cruise ships running again?
The CIG is hardly running the rest of the world.
The United States has not restricted travel to or from Cayman. So it seems that CIG is running that show.
Let’s please keep the tacky cruise shippers away
My concern is that we’ve simply postponed the first wave, now what? Its only a matter of time before we open the borders and only a matter of time before we have more cases. Then what?
1.19am I think we will get some pretty big waves around Sept/Oct.
Did the CI government response really save lives or did it just delayed the obvious when we go back to normalcy and would have caught the virus?
Your DEAD wrong on the lockdowns and social isolation working, now that numerous studies are emerging in the US and European countries that estimates between 20x to 30x more persons in the population may have been asymptomatic, so this puts the death rate of COVID-19 at approximately 0.1% to 0.9%, less lethal than the seasonal flu and Influenza, so the WHO March 2020 report of 3.4% death rate that started the lockdowns are 100% bogus.
Even the US Center for Disease Control, CDC admitted this week the Caronavirus death rates are comparable to the common flu, so was it really worth send the global economy into what’s looking like a depression? Update 130mm persons globally are now estimated to die of starvation and malnutrition, up from 30mm this year according to the same World health organization that started this hysteria.
World governments are now pinning hopes on large segments of their populations having already caught the Caronavirus and acquiring the antibodies.
What are the chances you believe a large segment of the Cayman Islands population have already caught the virus? People shouldn’t be surprised next flu season when virus raises its head.
It saved lives and it bought time. Your suggestion that the world should have walked straight into this, not knowing what it is, and allowed it to kill with impunity. And when your loved ones could not have received medical attention because hospitals were overwhelmed, you would have been perfectly fine with that. You saw what it did to Italy, Spain, New York, etc. even with quarantines in place – it completely overwhelmed them. No “regular” flu season does that or has done that. No regular flu season kills 1000s per day in one country alone as this has done.
The Diamond Princess ship was a controlled case study. 705 people tested positive for the virus, and seven died, suggesting a 1% CFR (Case Fatality Rate), albeit an older skewed population. Italy’s CFR was significantly higher. Regardless of where the true CFR is between 1% and 3.4% as the WHO is/was reporting, this is, at best, at least 10 times worse than a bad flu season whose CFR is closer to 0.1% and 0.2% in a really bad season.
Nobody said “walk into this” Social distancing is fine and it was known from the get go that the elderly and those with underlying conditions were at far greater risk. That’s where the focus should have been all along. What we’ve done is catastrophic. I don’t blame the gov for imposing the lockdown at first but now it’s far more clear where we need to go without further delay.
I think if we only had that 1 cruise pax with it and felt it was isolated we would have all been happily getting drunk in bars and restaurants, no tourists would be allowed so the tourism industry would still be done, but just face it, tourism is done for a good long time, regardless if any lockdown from gov. No tourists would want to or could probably afford to come.
“CDC admitted this week the Caronavirus death rates are comparable to the common flu.” Really? Where did you get that from? CDC provisional data to 25th April shows that flu casualties for 2020 in the USA amounted to 5,846, whereas Covid-19 deaths were 37,308 (CDC/NVSS Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease)
Your assertion that Covid-19 is less lethal than seasonal flu is based on a mis-use of statistics or mis-understanding of the evidence. Take the USA for example, where today we have confirmed 69,035 Covid-19 deaths (437 more than yesterday), most of which have occurred since 1st February. (www.worldometers.info/coronavirus)
Over the last 6 years, the number of confirmed annual flu deaths in the USA has ranged from 3,448 through to 15,620, and these numbers already make Covid-19 up to 20 times more lethal than all types of flu virus combined. And we are only part way through the year. (ref Dr Jeremy Faust, Scientific American)
Sure…we cannot stay locked down forever, but the aggressive lock-down in Cayman has undoubtedly saved lives, and a cautious approach to lifting the restrictions will save more.
12:55pm – Please stop embarrassing yourself and go back and read the CDC report. It states “The COVID-19 hospitalization rates are “similar to” those in the 65 and older category during “recent high severity influenza seasons.”
And the COVID-19 hospitalizations for children 17 and under is MUCH LOWER than the seasonal flu hospitalization rates during recent influenza seasons.
Where did the 20 times more lethal than the flu came from? Are you aware that 80,000 persons died in the US in 2017 from the flu and 650,000 people die annually from Coronavirus’ which are commonly known as the common flu(s).
Get the report here. (Page 2)
https://t.co/8sAdxRPlK6?amp=1
Reading history Spainish flu affect on Caribbean… It was l
minimal., covid 19 pretty much shaping out the same way.
Covid 19 appears to be far more climatical and somewhat fortunate. Our Governments response helped and we’ll meant and probably appropriate considering AC office blocks.
Seems the climate is the real reason for numbers
10:44 pm: the region was spared because the Spanish flu was spread largely by the mobilization of US and other countries’ military troops in the First World War with which it coincided.
I doubt that the spread or lack thereof had much to do with climate.
I agree with some of the article. But:
– Sweden’s success or failure will only be judged in a 3 to 5 year period. Yes, their death rate now is higher, but so is their herd immunity. If a vaccine fails, it may show that Sweden had the right approach. This cannot be judged today, but needs more time.
– I don’t think most people disagree with the shelter in place
– many of us disagree with governments handling of the beach. Why close down something healthy that would help prevent the virus? Why not police it, rather than close it?
– government should shut down cycling. Too many risks of farts and sneezes and air particles passing. Alden made a mistake in protecting his hobby, and shutting down the police commissioners nemesis (the beach)
– MoH treatment of Wendy and personal trainer situation
Overall, we all agree with the general policy. It’s just the specifics that have failed and smell of favoritism, elitism and politics.
Re. the Beach…this perhaps explains the decision
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-02/coronavirus-ocean-swimming-surfing-safe-beaches-los-angeles
Makes alot of sense
Always pays to keep reading…that theory has been debunked in the follow up article.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-11/coronavirus-danger-california-beaches
At $35000 (typical officer salary) we could have hired an army of cops to police to keep everyone in order and still saved hundreds of millions in losses and thousands of jobs. Not that I agree they were needed.
What are the losses? $500 million? What are the long term losses? Billions? How many companies will never come back after a life time of hardwork? How many jobs were lost, many of them permanently? How many people have been evicted from their homes or face eviction? How many people find themselves with no money for basic neccesities including food? How many people will die early because of the ruination of their lives? How many pensions will be depleted? How many kids and wives were beat and couldn’t call for help because their abuser was right there? How many kids lost their education? How many people did not get diagnosed in time to head off deadly disease because hospitals were closed or they were too afraid to go to the hospital, or were told to stay home. How many people have died over the past 2 months at home because they didn’t go to the hospital?
How many people will die when we do open up, and we will, and they will and for what?
We can never do it again this way.
No sir…
Everyone keeps talking about business closing down. However many businesses shouldn’t even have a license as they bring in cheap labour, make them pay for their own ticket & w/permit, don’t pay them the agreed salary if they pay at all & don’t pay their insurance or pension. In many cases they let them lose to find other work & then demand a cut of the money they earn. So some closings are a blessing in disguise. Clean up Cayman
idiot…you’ll soon learn.
He’s not wrong
A lot of hypothetical what ifs. You want to keep tourism open for a world that is shut down and will not visit, for planes that won’t fly and for ships that won’t sail? Kids who lost their education? Their schools are shut down for 3 months and they lost their education for life? Slight exaggeration there? The financial sector is still working, albeit from home. The rest of the sectors, which are highly dependent on tourism would not have been working, even if government allowed – nobody is coming to visit.
How many will die when things open up again? A lot less, especially since it’s much better understood now.
You have no idea what you are talking about. As far as a kids losing their education, yes families are using their kids college fund to pay the bills and save their homes. Many of their businesses have been permanently destroyed. That is not an exaggeration.
You are fine, that’s why you couldn’t care less.
ETH. Your entire pompous soliloquy was a “what If” hypothetical.
Some highlights:
“The Cayman government has been keeping some of your donkey a$$es at home in order to protect you from yourselves.”
“The only reason you were not poorly affected by this virus is because of the measures that government took”
” please put up your hand to volunteer to be one of the 23… or one of the 500.”
KMA….
So the things that are going on in Italy, Spain, France, UK, the US, Canada, and why not just throw in the whole world, could not and would not have happened here had government not shut down things in time? Your village is looking for you.
In short, no they would not and the mounting evidence is that the draconian measures placed upon *everyone* instead of being targeted toward the high risk segments were unnecessary and only postponed the inevitable. Yet we continue….
Here’s a recent youtube video from Japan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qljY93bHpu8
It flies in the face of your narrative notwithstanding the title, but maybe you can see your way through to watch it with an open mind. Today’s death rate per capita today stands at 4 per million in an extremely densely populated country without a mandated lockdown.
I understand you are scared ETH. All you have to do is stay in your house. Or you and others can go out in one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Pcs-Transit-time-Disposable-Protective/dp/B086MGBSCK/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=hazmat+suit&qid=1588643577&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzRDdLWE1GT0JaWVYwJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzI3NzI3MTFaN0E2MkZaWTNRJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4MjQ3NDEyMzM2UEdTRUpNVFVRJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
And spare the rest of us from your destructive and futile fears.
What exactly is your point? And what is your complaint?
You take one country, Japan, an outlier (along with New Zealand) but ignore the 256,000 who have died, despite tight quarantines having been put in place around the world. You quote 4 deaths per million in a place that has self-isolated (and can do so better than most countries in the world) itself from the rest of the world at an early stage…but ignore the 548 deaths/million in Spain, 485 in Italy, 433 in the UK, 386 in France, 86 in Germany, 692 in Belgium, 104 in Canada, 302 in Netherlands, all countries with reliable stats.
You obviously think that you’re smarter than the world medical community that has been by and large responsible for the quarantines. Why don’t you go and argue with them, tell them how wrong they were to recommend these lockdowns. Tell them that you’ve watched a few youtube videos here and there and that you know better than they do. To date, the medical community still does not know what the world is facing. If they did, and they’d have an idea how to control this virus, we’d be back to normal. The virus also keeps mutating.
https://u.today/new-strain-of-covid-19-is-even-more-contagious-study-finds
You appear to try to embarrass me with the claim that I am afraid. Lol, you’d have to be pretty dull to have no concerns. Here’s what I’m afraid of. I’m afraid of anything serious happening to my wife and kids, my relatives and my friends. I’m afraid of anything serious happening to me that may affect my family, and in fact, of anything happening to anyone else because of this. Latest Canadian stats breakdown (those affected by Covid):
5.9% (19 years or younger)
11.96% (20 -29 years old)
13.88% (30-39 years old)
15.8% (40-49 years old)
16.54% (50-59 years old)
12.3% (60-69 years old)
8.2% (70-79 years old)
16.28% (80 and older)
If you think that this is just an old age disease, you’re wrong. You better not be overweight, have high blood pressure or diabetes. And you better not be healthy and have the misfortune to be one of those outliers who is severely impacted by it, as many have been.
My argument was never that we shouldn’t carry on. Of course we should, and of course we need to start opening up society again (with caution). The argument is that what mostly all governments did around the world, including the CI government, was prudent in the face of an unknown, highly contagious, and deadly risk.
Oh please. If Japan is an outlier then much of Asia is an outlier. There are plenty of scientists and experts that disagree with the conventional wisdom and strategy. And it’s very easy to see why. The examples you chose are actually perfect but only to contradict your narrative instead of support it. Those countries locked down and what happened? They died in the greatest of numbers while others that did not follow the same strategy did not. If the *experts* you are taking your cues from were correct, you would expect to see explosions of deaths in the countries that did not adhere to strict lockdowns. Like Japan, like S. Korea, like Sweden. And let’s not even get into places like India, Africa and Central Am. Do you really think they are locking down there the way they have in Europe? How are their numbers looking in contrast? Let me guess, they’re dying by the millions but hiding it from us.
And your Canadian stats are meaningless “those affected”..
More fear mongering. 100% of Canadians are “affected” by shutting down. Don’t be embarrassed, just stay home until your aren’t scared any longer.
It’s one thing to say that if aliens were to visit the Cayman Islands people would die. It’s another thing to look around you and see what’s happening around the world. You’d have to be mentally deficient to think that the Cayman Islands would have had a different outcome than Italy, Spain, France, the US, etc. So yeah, people would have died if not for the shutdown. Go away and play now before your village starts missing you.
While I generally approve of the CMO’s damage control measures, this regime was a few weeks late, having allowed the virus to circulate via a variety of cruise ship landings, and an entire unchecked spring break of visitors – even knowing there was an emergent mess in Europe and first infections in USA. Moses was gloating about how he had negotiated ongoing Carnival traffic. They now know it was hugely reckless. It’s only lucky our cases aren’t higher.
I must be one of the few actually enjoying the ‘lockdown’. Yeh it is a little inconvenient, but Sundays are absolute bliss! Home schooling is teaching me a thing or two as well.
Well, you must not have a demanding job and kids to tend to. You must have a nice house with a big fridge too. I don’t have it very hard either but I can think outside of myself.
You might also consider some reading comprehension. It was simply a statement to balance al the negativity of lockdown. Modest house and regular fridge.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I enjoyed it when my neighbors house burned down. Improved my view of the sea. Sometimes I see dolphins.
I fully understood what you wrote. My original comment still stands. In fact, I’m doubling down on it now with that arrogant response.
We’re hooligans and Asians are smarter, more disciplined and obey without question. The Japanese, South Koreans, Indians, Thai are mind numbed robots that are programmend to obey. Ask the protesters in Hong Kong about that. You are full of crap.
The entire global strategy apart from the Asian countries named above and a few others have followed a colossally flawed strategy that should never ever be repeated. The only thing we can hope is that we learn a very hard and painful lesson from this.
That’s not at all what was said or implied. But feel free to interpret as you wish. I am positive that no matter what someone says you’ll interpret it some other way and think that you know better.
They obey, we don’t. Would we obey if we thought it was saving our lives? Pretty stupid if we thought our life depended on it and did not obey. No, I think the comment was pretty much spot on and the implication was clear. Maybe hyperbolic, but spot on. BTC/ETC can take his/her condescension and shove it.
Don’t be such a mumpsimus. Not healthy being bitter.
Have you travelled down south sound in the late afternoons, especially today? Hundreds of walkers, joggers and bikers are not practices any social distancing. Cyclists are in groups passing others less than 3 feet away, let alone 6 or 15 feet as Dr. Lee has instructed. The policy of not being able to travel in your car to exercise needs to be amended.
NO, If they are doing that they need to be ticketed. You can’t keep amending the rules for people who don’t abide by them in the first place..
You seem to have missed the point of the comment. Forcing everyone to exercise in a small area is actually making matters worse. We need to spread them out by letting them drive to various spots to exercise. Thinking the RCIP can just ticket everyone isn’t a solution for anything. A better policy is.
I live in South Sound and notice the same thing. I have started doing my walks in the middle of the day to avoid the morning and evening rush. Now I just have to deal with the heat and sun
The Premier and his Cabinet are to be commended for the decisions made and the way they have steered this jurisdiction through this crisis thus far . Similarly too , credit must be shared the medical authorities (HSA and private providers ) and other frontline personnel.
It is God’s blessing and a credit to the leadership of the political directorate and the scientific , professional and humane approach of the health authorities that we are weathering this crisis with no loss of life thus far , while far more sophisticated jurisdictions are mired in death, destruction and disaster .
I give the Premier full credit for his “take charge approach ” at this time. In times of challenge and crisis we need strong leadership and the Premier has risen to the plate.
The problem with the complainers is that when they cannot have their way , ” instead of lighting a candle they curse the darkness “. Perhaps if they don’t like how things are being handled here , they may consider taking one of the evacuation flights to a jurisdiction in which the can dictate how things are done and leave the rest of us cooperating citizens to survive thankful and unscathed in these blessed Cayman Islands .
Well said Sir. We have too many imported armchair experts here who want to “mek dis place like back a yard”. If yard is so great then your suggestion should be adopted.
There are plenty of indigenous armchair experts 8:17, so stop being divisive and trying to make this the “them and us” conflict people like you enjoy. Mr Bodden’s post deserves a better response than you gave him.
Lizard, mosquito and crocodile in armchairs?
” the Premier has risen to the plate.” And it was a very, very long trip for him! Pffft!
@4.10pm That is their job like everywhere else in the world. If not guided by UK and others, they would not have a clue. Pippette.
4.10pm In all the years I have lived here, and that’s a lot, one thing I have learned is that Caymanians love praising Caymanians, but not all, and almost always respond to criticism, even when justified, with the mantra, go back where you came from.
In “more sophisticated jurisdictions”, expatriate citizens and permanent residents are represented in the administration of government and are able to “light a candle”, rather than here where they have to “curse the darkness”.
You certainly have a point. I and my native Caymanian wife were so happy to get out of Cayman and back to the USA a few weeks ago that we felt like kissing the ground! However, we have family and friends and other ties with the Cayman Islands, and we do care about what happens there.
Hmm, wouldn’t go back to the US ever again if I could avoid it. Trump had turned me off all Americans I’m afraid. I know that’s not reasonable but he’s really offensive and I take issue with so many Americans supporting his behavior.
Typical logic being used. The US has 65,000 deaths. So Florida has obtained 100,000 body bags. Instead of comparing Sweden’s deaths to Canada’s why not compare Sweden’s deaths to what the experts said would happen if they didn’t completely lock down?
Exactamente.
The Swedes are absolute legends at social distancing. The local population has no clue how to socialize with just 1 family. Usually because they have 4 families.
But you are completely ignoring, why i do not understand, that they know much more about covid now and the death rate is extremely low!
Honestly.. After reading “And to finally put things into perspective, I am not son of soil and do not have status..” I skipped str8 down to the comments.. Can the CAYMANnewservice please share something from a Caymanian?! Based on most of CNS comments and Wendy’s comments about expats and work permit holders it has really hit me that natives are not the target of this site.. So sick of outsiders telling us about what they like and dont like about my home..
CNS: The target audience of this site is all residents of the Cayman Islands plus Caymanians and people who love the Cayman Islands everywhere. If you don’t believe that non-Caymanians should have a voice, well, too bad. However, anyone can submit a viewpoint. If it’s well written and interesting it will be published.
Thank you CNS….Further,
I hear your complaint, and to a degree, I get it; you feel a bit of stranger in your own land. But to completely ignore a point of view solely on the fact that someone is not son of soil is to exclude half of your population. Expats don’t have a voice when it comes to voting, and as an outsider, I don’t think that they ought to have one. However, when it comes to an opinion regarding a certain matter, you’re telling people that they ought not to have one, or not to voice it? Really? Because when you travel to the US, England, or Canada, you don’t voice your opinions?
I’m not sure what I can tell you other than that you may wish to write your own viewpoint and contribute to the discussion… Something other than, I don’t want to hear your opinion or read it because it’s coming from an outsider. Also, may I also suggest that you shut off your tv and all media accounts, as 99.9% of it comes from the outside.
And when you or your grandma (or anyone else in your family) are in hospital, and may need life-saving assistance, make sure you speak up and tell that Indian surgeon who is about to give you your gift of life that his/her expertise/opinion/skills are not wanted or required because he/she is not son/daughter of soil…or have status.
But ultimately, how about you read the article (promise, it’s not going to hurt you) and make a valid contribution to it, instead of making this an US versus THEM issue, when no such divide is necessary or needed.
Just my 2 cents.
There are thousands of expats that are now lawful Status holders, having gone through the full migration process. They too are Caymanians, and like it or not, equal voters and voices without suitable representation. Don’t assume that those opposing status quo don’t get a vote.
Clicked on thumbs for CNS. To the comnent it’s about keeping people alive regardless.
but the death rate for covid is extremely low! fear is the mind killer! should we stop driving next? people die esp. on this island so do you recommend this? life is filled with risk and the govt cannot be responsible for our choices!
If you lived outside of Cayman you would not be able to say this. Let that sink in for a minute and realise what it means. The Gov, Alden and the CMO are doing a good job.
Well said Wendy!
CNS: Wendy doesn’t moderate the comments and never has. She’s a little busy doing the work of multiple journalists.
So it’s you Nicky. Well, must say, when you’re clapping back at commentators on here, you read like Wendy sounds. In a good way. Big fan.
My goodness, Wendy, I do not always agree with you ( we skirmished on your guardianista views on Brexit) but I really sympathize with you having to plough your way through some of the shite comments, exemplified in this case by Caymanian 2:08.
CNS: Wendy doesn’t moderate the comments.
This poster seems to think that only people like him with a narrow view of Cayman in the 21st century should be listened to but I bet he doesn’t realise that there are many many Caymanians….younger, educated both here and abroad….who think that his and other posters like him’s views are embarrassing. As for the claim that “natives are not targets of this site”, I would have thought it obvious from the hundreds of comments on subjects like gay marriage, the port, Dart, Dwayne Seymour, “Aldart” , Mckeeva, etc etc that Caymanians are massively represented when it comes to expressing their views
BTC is King and ETH is Queen – your post exactly reflects my sentiments, and perhaps that of many others in Cayman. CIG, led by Premier McLaughlin, must be given kudos for their actions in this pandemic. I only hope they don’t bend too quickly to the “re-open” voices and cause the pandemic to re-surge upon us.
PFS.
Forgive my ignorance – what do your acronyms mean?
This is a well worded article and your argument is quite correct on the whole. I think the problem people have with the government is more to do with the way females, homosexuals, reporters etc are referred to by members of the government and its ministry and also those in opposition. Leaders are supposed to lead but there is continued displays of arrogance and wrongdoing by them. If you look at the recent survey on CNS regarding the COVID scenario here the general consensus is that a good job is being done by government.There is a mutual lack of respect and trust and that was here before this crisis. Being told what to do by anybody that you have lost respect for is never agreeable, even if they are correct.
Agreed. From the handling of the port, to the massive build-up of the island, to the treatment of homosexuals, females, Wendy and others who dare question them, to the double-standards, cronyism, overall poor governance (have not improved the standard of living for most of the Caymanian population), this government has been a complete failure.
At this stage in the world, who would trust govt? something is very wrong…globalists have staged elections, promised things, and reversed course the minute they got in power! Everyone sees it. We have been told like weak minded idiots, parroting CNN talking points, that trump is bad, and never once wondered why they lied about russia collusion and everything else trump related. we are lied to but people do not ask why! i am in favor of questioning everything! way to go cayman!
Why are you so obsessed with CNN? Stop it. They aren’t the enemy. They aren’t even relevant to Cayman. Trump is a dipshit
No it didn’t. Prove me wrong.
Your thumbs prove nothing
💯👏👏👏👏👏
If the government had acted when former Politian’s were requesting to shut the ports before it came to our shores …we wouldn’t be in the mess that we’re in now…not to cry over spilt milk…
I agree with your point. Far too many governments reacted far too slowly, including the US, Canadian, British, etc. Even though the virus would have spread, regardless of a complete shutdown in the above-mentioned countries, it would have spread to a lesser degree than it has. My point in this article also has to do with the people, whether expat or local, who are complaining about the quarantine, that it’s either unnecessary and/or should be “looser”.
And how did they react? Mass movement of people. The rest is history.
Do you truly think that you’re truly much healthier than the US, Canadian or Swedish populations, or that somehow you are special that this virus would not affect you?
Seeing as 40% of the American population is obese and they’re Chinese citizens eating bush meat like bats, i’d say hell yea we have a healthier populace than some if not most.
We’re not special that the virus won’t effect us and I totally agree with the lockdown. This a new problem no one in Cayman has ever faced. We didn’t have to deal with Sars, Swine flu or some Cholera outbreak and seeing as the Island is tucked away in the caribbean in a relatively quiet and peaceful area, the population will take time to adjust to the new lifestyle which is also being forced.
The governments response was a bit late but none the less it prevented mass infection, something most of the world is still scratching their heads on how to deal with.