Official opposition backs pension holiday

| 20/04/2020 | 111 Comments

(CNS): Opposition Leader Arden McLean and his official members have said they will support the changes government will be making to the Pensions Law when the Legislative Assembly meets this week. The government is amending the legislation to create a ‘holiday’ period from the mandatory payments by employers and their employees and to allow people to withdraw a certain percentage from their existing funds to help get through the COVID-19 crisis.

The goal is to alleviate some of the serious economic challenges created by the national health crisis and the resulting lockdown of the local economy. While there are dissenting voices, and not just from the pension plan companies, it remains a popular decision among the wider public.

Reflecting that support, McLean (EE) said in press release from his office that it was the right move for government to make given the national health crisis

“As a society, we encourage people to save for their rainy days, albeit thinking it would be in their old age,” he said. “This global pandemic means that for many people, their livelihood and standard of living is under threat now and without the assistance and ability to hold on to their standard of living, many may not make it to their old age.”

Deputy Opposition Leader Alva Suckoo (NEW) said that a pensions holiday was the first step in the right direction and despite the need to “save for our golden years, the current circumstances cannot justify continuing with a forced savings”.

The remaining official members, Chris Saunders (BTW), Bernie Bush (WBN) and Anthony Eden (SAV), all offered support for the amendments.

The law has not been published yet, so it is not clear how long the payment freeze will last for and what the criteria will be for withdrawing money from existing funds.

However, the independent member, Ezzard Miller (NS), has said that he does not support the move to allow individuals to draw down cash from the plans. He said that for the average person, making monthly withdrawals of any significant amount for the next few months will represent years of contributions that will be almost impossible to replace.

Miller said that these withdrawals, combines with the freeze on payments, spelt “disaster for most persons when they become pensioners”.

Because this is an employment problem, he believes that government should reconsider the problem and instead aim to retain employment and income by equipping employers with the necessary financial support so they can keep paying their workers.

Miller outlined his suggestion in a Viewpoint (see here), in which he described how pension funds could be used as collateral for a major low-interest public-private loan project.


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Comments (111)

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  1. Anonymouse says:

    Disgraceful and stupid – with a complete lack of vision and/or common sense is the only way i can describe this idiotic idea.

    To start with – the concept of a pension is to enable people or nations to save for the absolute certainty of old age and its relative infirmaties. If covid has taught us nothing else it is that in our older years we are at our most vulnerable.

    Last century most “western” nations introduced progressive tax systems to pay for a level of social welfare for its people… depending on the country it varys but lets say an average of 30% tax on income to pay for welfare and pension.

    This is NOT the system that brought wealth and prosperity to Cayman – at the other end of the spectrum Cayman created an incredible bonanza of wealth through doing the complete opposite and having a “tax neutral” system while also having one of the highest government income to people ratios in the world! Was that smart? Yes it was very smart!

    In the early years it was of course necessary for government to spend much of that income expanding its infrastructure to support its growing economy and that made economic and fiscal sense. At some point 20 years ago some really smart people in government realized they needed to also plan for the future and lacking an income tax structure they created a way for people to save for their own retirement at a very low % of income i.e 5% … with an immediate 100% increase on their investment i.e the employer contribution. I can only imagine how gleeful the original legislators were at how they presumed the people would love this obvious boon!

    However, since the moment this legislation was brought in – successive governments have used it as a ridiculous way to ease their own burden, never more than at this most difficult time. When government could borrow at close to 0% interest they instead ask you to crystalize investment losses of 20% – perhapps 30%? Which is an amount they are fully aware will not be recoverable by you in your working life. They are asking you to give up something that you will genuinely need – security in your old age. They are also asking an impossible task of future governments to make up for this.

    Wha na dead, na call it duppy… somebody please have the sense to stop this…

  2. Anonymous says:

    Get ready to see your new balance since the stock market crashed as well as the standard 4% loss when your funds got coverted to US at 0.84 and now being converted back to CI at 0.80!. Funny how gambling isnt legal but the govt made it mandatory to gamble our retirement.

    • Anonymous says:

      Fidelity does not use those rates for deposits / withdrawals to their pension.

      • McLaughlin Derangement Syndrome is Real! says:

        Correct everyone should receive a check or ETF transfer which wil be deposited or cashed the mid rate 0.82 KYD.

    • Anonymous says:

      Ezzard should be in charge of this pension, HA… dont look for a red cent cause he been in the game longtime amigo Flush!

  3. Anonymous says:

    Good Day.

    Regarding PENSION MONEY WITHDRAWAL, WE, foreign national who are outside the Cayman Islands now but used to work in Cayman and have pension contribution, can WE ALSO WITHDRAW some portion of our pension money, since WE are also unemployed in our respective countries and WE are also affected by the PANDEMIC (CORONA VIRUS).

    WE will really and sincerely appreciate it Sir/Ma’am if we can take some part of our PENSION MONEY as well , this will truly help us survive also in the midst of this WORLD HEALTH CRISIS.

    I will appreciate any consideration RE: this matter, as well as thank you in advance for any reply.

    I can be contacted as well in the email Asaibot1979@gmail.com

    God Bless Us all..

  4. Anonymous says:

    I understand why the government has made this decision. It is an easy way for them to essentially provide welfare to people without having to pay for it. This is particularly relevant for expats and people who may be longer term residents but are unlikely to actually settle and retire here. We are not too far removed from the days when we paid these people the value of the pensions when they left anyway, so this isn’t really that different. Letting CI$10K out of pensions is smart in the short term. That should pay several months of rent and food for most people. Those people with less than 10K are either new residents or low income earners and will benefit the most from this allowance.

    The short term pension holiday also makes sense as it is leaves more money in people’s pockets and is a reduced expense for employers which hopefully encourages them to retain more employees and keep their businesses afloat.

    There are a couple of things that concern me here. Clearly people who, say, work in the restaurant industry or tourism will have lost their jobs or are facing many months of minimal income will need some help and this is one way to give them some cash in the short term. With all due respect to Ezzard Miller, these people need money now and they need more than a couple of vouchers from the NAU. Giving money to the banks to make loans is not the answer here. Despite the paternalistic comment from Ezzard suggesting these people will blow the cash and not manage it properly, I would say that this isn’t the time to nanny people. They are unable to work and have no way to make income – it’s not the time to imply that your population is incapable of looking after themselves. If they blow their pension money on booze instead of rent now, I’ve got news for you – these people are going to be a problem for you at some point anyway and you’ll have to deal with them. No point in punishing 95% of responsible citizens because a few people are irresponsible.

    As to the argument that we are kicking the can down the road here and will need to provide more support to these people when they retire. That may indeed be the case, but let’s face it, governments love to kick the can down the road. That’s why nothing has been done about the dump for 20 years plus. Let’s make it someone else’s problem.

    All of this to say that I don’t see why people who have not lost their jobs or can’t demonstrate any loss of income should be taking 25% out of their pensions. This seems excessive in absence of demonstrated need. For example, I have not lost my job and my income is steady but I most certainly will take that cash now, because let’s face it, no one knows how this crisis is going to play out, and indeed there will be many people who will wonder about the long term future of Cayman and decide that they would rather take the cash now than assume it will be there in 10, 20 or 30 years from today. This isn’t the last crisis Cayman will ever face, and if offered access to some of my money now I’m not sure I will take the bet that Cayman won’t be under water (literally or figuratively) 20 years from now when I am ready to retire. In which case I can kiss some or all of that pension goodbye. Or if I am forced to move to a jurisdiction with income tax, I might have to pay 30% or 40% tax on the withdrawals. If you don’t intend to retire here it would be crazy not to take the money out.

    Finally, since I anticipate that half the responses here will say something like “all these withdrawals reduce the value of my pension”. Just to make it clear how pensions work. Each person owns a slice of the total assets of a pension. If the pension has 100 million dollars and 100 people, each one of those people is entitled to 1 million dollars. If the other 99 people withdraw all their money and it comes time for you to retire, your million dollars is still there and you can claim it. This is slightly oversimplified and yes things like administration fees go up slightly if the value of the pension is reduced but not in a material way. So don’t worry about what other people choose to do. Make your own decision based on your circumstances.

    • Anon says:

      I think you got most of it here… except to point out that realisticly it could take around 75 days for a pension plan to actually pay you out. Pensions are invested in a range of funds that are valued once per month i.e at the last day of the month. Due to the complexity of some funds it almost certainly would take another 30 days to finalize valuations and then another 15 days to review, approve and process payments. If administrators are staffed enough to process x amount of payments and this legislation then requires them to process 1000x payments out of the blue… how on earth is that going to work?

  5. Anonymous says:

    The last action before starving to death is to eat the seed needed for next years crop.

    • Anonymous says:

      billions of dollars going back into the country. fat chance. this is going back to their home country for their families

      • Anonymous says:

        Not if money transfer is shut down – high is the point no doubt why money transit is treated differently to banks.

      • Anonymous says:

        Some of it might go to someone’s family, sure. It’s amazing that the underlying tone here is as though that’s a bad thing. At least foreign workers will be able to pay their rent and buy some food and maybe afford a plane ticket home when the time comes. Would you prefer they go to the NAU? Why is it your business what they do with the excess. Should you be made to account for what you do with your money?

  6. Anonymous says:

    Not only do government workers not get their pensions (of which unfortunately many are below the poverty line), but if they have already left the job their pension will not only still be active but unaccessible. Not great news at all and I am extremely disappointed in their decision.

    • Anonymous says:

      Below poverty? Working for the government? Sure sounds like fake news to me. One thing this government does well is creating unnecessary jobs for them and paying them very well.

      • Anonymous says:

        the opposite of IN is OUT so if your IN your IN never look back on the loss. Move foward take your money, make that change for better or worse. Yep marry the plan.

    • Anonymous says:

      You are still being paid 100%. I’m sure you are not being paid minimum wage, so you should not need to touch your pension at this time. If you cannot live on your pay now, you will not survive on your future pension. Time to cut expenses.

      • Anonymous says:

        expats who worked for gov but are no longer employed with them do not have access

        I believe writer is speaking in part about the labourers working for govt, these are low paying hourly positions like painters, etc

        • Anonymous says:

          Point still stands. If you can’t afford to live on your 200% PST check now you will not be able to survive on your pension in the future – especially if you take a chunk out of it now.

    • Anonymous says:

      Really, so they can’t transfer out?

    • Anonymous says:

      I think people that left their job should have access to their pensions while on island..of course gov doesn’t see it that way.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Department Labour an Pensions office going have anything to do with this???? If so, dog eat supper. I have a case there from early 2019 for my termination and can’t get an honest answer as to what’s going on. My son and wife have a housing application there from December and have not been contacted yet. I mention all this to say that people will waiting mighty long time to get their pennies. Good luck.

  8. M McLaughlin says:

    The news of the pension holiday comes with a great deal of temporary relief for many.

    I trust the government also addresses in the near future how the Pension Administrators administer funds, there are many other (less risky) investment opportunities that we should be allowed choice from.

    With this crisis we have to think outside the proverbial box or we’ll be right back here after this crisis goes away.

    • Anonymous says:

      I chose the lowest risk available. I said, please don’t mess with anything, don’t lose anything and i will be ok i told them…. When i looked there are small cap Asian equities !!!

      Pretty sure what could have made a nice 1% return on my required savings is very likely well into the negative.

  9. Anonymous says:

    Under what forum do I report if my neighbors are having a house party? I heard the police cannot respond. Not cool. I have behaved responsibly. I have no recourse?

  10. Anonymous says:

    Why is mo one speaking about the Army coming in? That should be the foremost discussion!

    CNS: Check back to CNS tomorrow.

    • AJ says:

      I am an expat and would love to get back my pension before am 65. That’s many years to come. I patiently await a change in this regard. Why should this be withheld from me when my bank told me I cannot have a savings account there because I have no “ties” in the country. I was ordered to get my money out so they can close my account. My 9 years of pension which is being held is enough ties.

    • Anonymous says:

      Direct rule we need it now. The problems are well outside of the Minister of Health and Education capabilities.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Of course it doesnt make sense to take out the money when the investment is down, but if you need it then what other choice have you got?

  12. Anonymous says:

    this just makes the poor stay poor for the long run. I get there are no good solutions,but this one is bad long term for those in need.

  13. Anonymous says:

    What about those folks who will never retire here in the Cayman Islands? What about those who are trying to find a way to leave and perhaps start a business in their own countries? It is not everyone who is here contributing to a pension who will actually be rewarded for being that diligent.

  14. Anonymous says:

    Whole heap of employers who haven’t been paying in are about to get found out.

    • Anonymous says:

      They are already well known, and nothing effective is done.

    • Anonymous says:

      Some employers are going to be in for some big doo doo. Hopefully they will be named and shamed.

      • Anonymous says:

        Yeah, named and shamed while their largely foreign workforce quietly starves in faraway lands. Those responsible for enforcing our laws should hang their heads in shame. They keep allowing licenses to be renewed, and work permits granted, to employers who they know cheat their own workers. Governor – since the police refuse to act even when employers steal their employee pension monies, you have some responsibility in this too.

        • Anonymous says:

          Don’t think you realize that the Governor has been stripped of his powers by our MLA’s during the past 10 years. He no longer can touch this area legally, though it would be good if he did.

          • Anonymous says:

            Nonsense. When the police refuse to arrest people for theft of employee pension monies, or (for example) for beating up bar managers, then that is very much an issue for the Governor. It is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

          • Mgm says:

            The only powers he has here is to do exactly what he is doing. Nothing

  15. Anonymous says:

    I don’t need the money but all the the idiots withdrawing funds are going to further damage the value of my pension, so I’ll take it all and drop it in my Credit Union share account.

    • TDS is real! says:

      How are people withdrawing from their pensions going to damage the value of your pension?

      Can I remind you that your pension is managed through multibillion dollar hedge funds, you really believe Cayman Islands residents making a run on their pensions will affect the financial markets? People taking their pensions now, doesn’t change the value of your pension.

      I’m happy the government is allowing people to take their funds from out of the casino. I suggest you buy some physical gold or silver and hold it, this way you can see your value and wealth everyday.

  16. Anonymous says:

    I’m investing my ten grand in crude oil futures

  17. Anonymous says:

    A coworker has had their phone and Internet cut off. Is it a one off error? Or is it policy for Flow to cut off the only communications persons following the shelter at home restrictions have to comply with regulations during this most trying of times? Disgusting if it is true.

  18. Anonymous says:

    We need a real stimulus package. This is just again, another PR grab for Aldonette et al.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Meanwhile, Silver Thatch has taken down their member portal….

  20. Anonymous says:

    The pensions here are all useless and you invest more than you will get out in the end.

  21. Anonymous says:

    The second worst idea in the history of ideas, right after this oppressive lock-down that caused the need in the first place.

  22. Anonymous says:

    Maybe I’ve missed the issue, but if you have no income then you have no pension contributions due? I get that by allowing you to take money out of your pension is a change to the current rules but why do we need legislation to suspend pension contributions…? No income = no pension payment doesn’t it?

    • Anonymous says:

      Thanks. Also many of those who have worked only for a few months have no pension yet, and probably need it the most. In my case I just set up a new business and have not set up pensions yet. Could really do with that money to keep my business going and pay rent.

      #playingwithpeopleslives

    • Anonymous says:

      Employer matching contributions are being suspended (again)…it’s an employer maladministration holiday.

    • Anonymous says:

      Some of us find ourselves in single income households so the extra little bit from not having to pay pension can help towards bills for those people still working. Some people are working but on reduced hours, some people have taken voluntary pay cuts to help their company stay open…need I go on?

    • Anonymous says:

      Two parts to every contribution- employers and employees. Try, if you are still employed and earning the argument for avoiding your contribution is lessened ( but not extinguished if you are a multi income household and your family members are unemployed). However being able to knock off the pension contribution from the payroll bill is a direct cost saving for those businesses that actually paid it in the first place.

    • Anonymous says:

      Far too logical for our CIG. But by making this illogical statement they appear to be magnanimous, but do not forget the civil service pension is non contributory so does that mean the government will not be paying into the CS pension fund?

    • Anonymous says:

      I think this was meant for persons still employed, to not have to contribute for 6 months.

    • Anonymous says:

      For most businesses personnel costs are their largest cost. The pension holiday could keep a small business from having to lay someone off, at least for a month or two.

  23. Anonymous says:

    Great more money for those businesses which are still open like the price gouging supermarkets and liquor stores so that the rest of us try to survive! And while people not working or getting paid are having to dig into their pensions the bloated civil service are on full pay!

    • Anonymous says:

      People not working can’t or getting paid can’t get at their pensions. At least that’s the way I heard it. Unbelievable.

      Those that have incomes and actively contributing can access. Those that have no income are no longer actively contributing, e.g. because they lost or recently changed jobs, or stopped working can’t get any help. What moron came up with this idiotic idea whereby the people needing it most are denied access?

      • Anonymous says:

        Wtf are you trying to say?! Reading is fundamental and this withdrawal option is open to everyone who has a private pension fund, whether you’re employed or not.

      • Anonymous says:

        You got it wrong. It’s retired people who can’t access the capital sums in their accounts. If you are active- that is not retired, you can avoid make payments and take funds out. .

        • Anonymous says:

          I am the OP and thank you for clarifying. I have an old pension. I thought by the word active they meant contributions still going in. Thank you again. Good news for me!

      • Anonymous says:

        @ 4.46pm You ask “What moron came up with this idiotic idea whereby the people needing it most are denied access?” Just look in the mirror. You did. That is not what was said at the press briefing. Get your facts right before you post.

        • Anonymous says:

          If you are no longer working for government, and you are an expat who hasn’t cashed out their pension, it will be locked and still “active”, therefore cannot take it out and it still fluctuates with the market.

    • Anonymous says:

      3:30 That is a very unfair accusation regarding the civil service. The civil service is large and covers many areas. It is wrong and incorrect to assume that the entirety of the civil service aren’t working. Many including myself have much to do and I am getting on with it as I should. Your comments and accusation are those of a bitter person who is clearly uninformed and uneducated. Stop spreading hate and misinformation. It does nothing but sow animosity and resentment.

      • Anonymous says:

        Well according to the Premier today only 1100 of the civil service are actively engaged, and the rest are “working from home”. You want to explain how those 2000 plus people are providing service from home when most government departments are not set up for remote working?

        • Anonymous says:

          1:36 Actively engaged could mean out and about or still in their place of work. The police for example are classed as civil servants and they are out patrolling and monitoring. Many civil servants particularly those who work with data and documents can do so from home. There are ways that have been set up to allow us to access our computer drives and documents. So it is unfair to say that thousands are not working. We are working just not in our offices which would be foolish at this point in time.

        • Anonymous says:

          You just log into the system remotely?
          I am happy they are working from home. For the first time I can remember in well over a decade, the companies registry are being responsive!

      • Anon says:

        5.36pm We all know the Cvil Service is large i.e. bloated and that it serves as a repository for Caymanians who cannot get a job in the real world. I agree that some are working hard to assist in the Covid crisis for which we are grateful.
        However you cannot deny that 7,000 of you are on full pay with free medical and a generous pension scheme and nobody ever gets terminated unless they are convicted of a crime.

  24. Anonymous says:

    One thing I really want to know about the pensions that hasn’t been explained is this. For the people who don’t draw on their pension will the money for our personal pensions still be there when we need it? Or is the action of many taking out their pension money likely to affect us as a whole. I am fortunate enough not to need it at the moment but i was hoping you use some of it in the future to help pay for a down payment on a house. Will it still be there for when I need it? I understand the interest will be non-existent. But will my overall pension be less than it currently stands. CNS do you know the answer to this or is it something that can be asked st the next press briefing?

    • Anonymous says:

      The fund you are invested in will fluctuate with the investments made by that fund, you always have a slice of that pie, determined by how much you and your emplotyer pay in. Whether that pie grows or shrinks will depend on how well it’s invested. It shouldn’t matter what others do with their slice. In short it will only be less if the investments go down, which unfortunately they have.

      • Anonymous says:

        Do all pensions get invested? I am a civil servant (please people no negative comments on how i apparently shouldn’t be paid atm because I do actually have work to do and i am getting on with it). Does anyone know if they also invest government pensions? This is all very confusing and a bit worrying. I hope people are sensible with their money and don’t waste it on unnecessary luxuries. I understand why the government are giving people access to it I just hope it doesn’t backfire tremendously..

      • Anonymous says:

        Not strictly correct. The cost of running the pension fund have to be split between the members – usually done as a percentage administration fee. Every dollar taken out means somewhere between 2 and 5 cents of cost that has to be picked up elsewhere. Or put it another way- if half the pension fund money is withdrawn by others, your admin fees will double. And they were pretty bad to start with because the funds here are small and have a very narrow member and assets base to spread fixed costs across. One of the reasons the rate of return in Cayman funds was so crap by international standards even before the crisis.

        Now it’s going to be even worse because the value of the investments has tanked. It the costs will be the same. And we are going to let everyone take 25% of that out!

        • Anonymous says:

          7:36 if that is true that is very worrying indeed. 🙁

        • Anonymous says:

          Translation pull your 25% and invest it elsewhere or try to transfer it all out. Maybe CIG should consolidate all plans to avoid this

          • Anonymous says:

            CIG employees are unable to take out their pension. They do not even release statements at this time. Also even if you quit your job years ago and for whatever reason didn’t cash it out – not only is it still active but you also cannot withdrawal the money. Actually sucks for people working for gov who were counting on it.

        • Anonymous says:

          The costs to administer the pension is relatively low Asset managers typically charge management fees tied to the assets they are given to manage. So for example, if a pension has 100 Million and the management fee is 1%, the asset manager is paid 1 million a year. If that drops to 50 million because of withdrawals and the market dropping in value, then the fee will be 500K.

          The cost to pay an administrator, print statements etc is relatively minimal compared to the management fees – so sure, maybe in the short term the administration costs may go up a few tenths of a percent, but this is nothing to get too excited about.

      • Anonymous says:

        You don’t think hitting the bid with 25% mass redemption will have a negative effect on the collective NAVs of other plan members? I’d like to know how that works.

        • Anonymous says:

          Not really, no. If you look at the holdings of pension plans most of equity holdings are in blue chip stocks like google, apple and microsoft. The more conservative portfolios will have a lot of fixed income investments. It’s not like that much of the money will be locked up. And its not like 25% of the entire value of the plan is going to actually come out. First of all not everyone will opt to take their cash out. Most of the people with sizeable pensions will still have their jobs and won’t need to.

  25. Anonymous says:

    Pension funds are not cash. The tragedy of the commons dictates that the NAV of all unit holders will get hit for every additional unscheduled withdrawal from the plan. Why do I have to differ my retirement so that those less responsible can maintain their unsustainable lifestyles? Is that fair? Bad enough that we’re at the bottom of the market.

    • Anonymous says:

      Who said we are at the bottom of the market?

      • Anonymous says:

        This isn’t e*trade…by the time this gets passed, gazetted, and pension managers start answering your redemption queries, we will be much lower than today. Today’s WTI action is the canary in the coal mine, and we are just one month into this crisis.

        • Anonymous says:

          Agreed. They better hurry up and get on with it…. Like curfew speed. Investment managers got a lot of bonds to dump on the Fed. A good balanced portfolio should be only margins lower.

    • Anonymous says:

      These are PENSION plans for retirement NOT SAVINGS plans for rainy days.

      We will ALL take a hit if there is a run on the funds as liquidation of positions by the pension managers take effect. Bad enough what Foolio did with first time Caymanian home buyers…this is more of it…they are getting used to this easy money.

      If this is the way its going to be, let those who earn over a certain amount (sophisticated buyers) be able to invest in “approved” retirement plans (with appropriate structures etc.) – both on and off island – (I thought I’d never hear myself say this, but perhaps a bit like what the Yanks have with their “401k”s)…because once CIG get used to indirectly dipping into Pension Plans, how long before they “directly” start dipping into our pension plans to help themselves out of the next crisis.

      GIG have been profligate in the good times with “our” (the peoples’ money) – the (Corrupt aka) “Cruise” Port money wasted on advertising, legal expenses, consultants, High Curt appeals (ongoing) etc., vanity projects like Smith’s Cove (money expended, even if it was finally dropped), Air Port expansion costs WAY-overruns etc.), bloating of the Civil and the Public Service……….

      CIG should have provided for disasters with a “disaster fund” in the good years …we are in “Hurricane Alley”, for God’s sake.

      • McLaughlin Derangement Syndrome is Real! says:

        You try coming up with $35,000 for a downpayment on your first home.

        You sound like an entitled prick!

        Long live Foolio & Mckeever!

      • Anonymous says:

        Govekrnment is not dipping into anyones pension funds 4.30 so stop the lies.People are dipping into their funds for emergency use.And you are suggesting that Govt should have provided a “disaster fund” to cover peoples income in disasters? What sortof communist are you? Or are you saying Govt should force citizens to contribute to this fund. How much would you be willng to contribute? Not one cent I bet.

    • Anonymous says:

      take a class action lawsuit

  26. Anonymous says:

    Utterly shortsighted move by the CIG, it will be cheaper in the long run for the CIG to borrow now and simply make direct cash payments to people than it will be for them to take money out of their pensions now just to have those people showing up at the NAU in 15-25 years for assistance for the rest of their lives

    • Anonymous says:

      yep…but it is the easiest thing for the do-nothing ppm to do.
      save them from actually forming a proper fiscal plan and package.
      companies will still go under….alot of them

    • Anonymous says:

      Yeah but they believe that money is there’s a don’t want to set a precedent. And 2, FFR, it’s about power… They don’t want to get the debt ratio off kilter.

      So, youre right…. But…. Yeah

  27. Anonymous says:

    Ezzard talking sense again!

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