HRC: Appeal in same-sex marriage case ‘unarguable’
(CNS): The Human Rights Commission has said that government’s decision to appeal Chief Justice Antony Smellie’s judgment in the same-sex marriage petition will fail because the grounds are “weak to the point of being unarguable”. The HRC said government’s decision to commit hundreds of thousands of dollars of public money to appeal, based only on the executive summary and not the full judgment, was extraordinary and it was regrettable that it was seeking to re-litigate the case in an attempt to maintain discrimination.
The HRC is calling on government to review the full judgment before “it pursues this ill-advised appeal” and properly consider its legal position, given that it has a duty to the public under s.19 of the Constitution to make decisions that are rational.
“Unjustified state-sponsored discrimination has no place in a modern democracy and it is unlawful under Cayman’s Constitution,” the commission said in a lengthy statement from the chairman, attorney James Austin-Smith.
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The case in question was brought by Chantelle Day and Vickie Bodden, a same-sex couple, after they were refused a marriage licence. It was heard by the chief justice in February, and on 29 March he ruled in their favour. In order to make the marriage law compatible with the Bill of Rights, he modified the legislation from the bench and legalised same-sex marriage.
However, on Wednesday the premier announced that government would appeal the ruling. He said the decision had been made in Cabinet on Tuesday, admitting that at that point it was based only on the summary of the ruling, which is around 40 pages, and not on the full judgment, which is understood to be several hundred pages.
The HRC said it has now received and read the full judgment, and it was only after reading the entire document that it released a statement.
The commission found that the case for appeal is weak, not only because the chief justice ruled against the government on every single point but because its own legal team had either failed to provide a response to many points made by the petitioners or had conceded that they were indefensible.
The government’s legal team was led by Sir Jeffery Jowell QC, a preeminent constitutional lawyer and the consultant contracted by government to advise them on the crafting and negotiations leading up to the creation of the 2009 Constitution.
“The government conceded during the litigation that the legal position in the Cayman Islands was
discriminatory,” the HRC said, adding that the chief justice had found government’s attempted justification for that discrimination “collapses and fails at the first hurdle” as clearly not being within the law.
The HRC accused government of pressing ahead with an appeal without fully understanding the details of the ruling, demonstrated by comments made in the Legislative Assembly on Wednesday. The commission urged the public to read the judgment, which makes it clear what the law is and what the court’s role is in protecting the rights enshrined in the Constitution.
The commission also said that the prevailing opinion in the Legislative Assembly that an appeal was necessary to protect the separation of powers was inaccurate. It is settled law that where the Legislative Assembly has previously passed a law that is contrary to the Constitution, the court is obligated to modify that law, the HRC explained.
“This is not an area for judicial discretion – the court has no choice,” the commission stated.
During the trial, as the case was argued before the chief justice, the government’s lawyers also made this concession and could not have done so without instruction from their client.
Given that the case is very weak, the HRC raised concerns about the cost to the public purse, as government has already been ordered to pay the petitioners’ costs for the original trial in addition to its own costs.
“The first trial has cost the public hundreds of thousands of dollars. This ill-considered appeal will waste many hundreds of thousands of dollars more,” the commission stated, noting that it receives regular complaints from Caymanians who cannot afford basic necessities like shelter, medical care or even clothing.
“Our underfunded NAU could make a real difference for the most vulnerable with these funds. Last month the Meals on Wheels charity, which provides food for seniors, the home-bound and the disabled throughout Cayman, noted that there was a waiting list for its services of over 80 people in West Bay alone.”
The commission listed numerous social welfare areas where the money could be much better used. And it pointed to the perpetuation of discrimination that the appeal is seeking to achieve, while all the petitioners were seeking was to be treated with the same dignity and equality that other Cayman residents enjoy.
As the commission established to ensure that the Bill of Rights is upheld, the HRC also questioned the claims that the majority of the public wish to perpetuate discrimination against same-sex couples. The commission said the fundamental principle of the Constitution is that it will respect and protect the rights of the minority, even if the majority will not.
Category: Government oversight, Local News, Politics
This is just one more step on the journey that started with yoga and will end in Jonestown.
At a time when Cayman really needs to be endearing itself to the rest of the World, to protect industry, it’s attractiveness as a business location and thus Caymanian jobs, not to mention preserving an environment that made it what it is, it is astounding just how much self harm can be committed by one single government term. I think we need to grow up.
Can we talk about discrimination against color, ethnicity and race on island? That is a travesty.
Yes they are protesting in London about Brunei anti Gay laws yet not one of these protester are raising one banner in protest about the bombs and bullets that are killing and murdering innocent women and children in Yemen supplied by them. Gay lives do matter???? What a bunch of disgusting Hypocrites!
What a ridiculous “straw-man” argument. How do you know that those who protest in London against LGBT discrimination are OK with arms sales overseas? I would suggest that probably 99% of those protesters are also against arms sales to the Middle East. But that logic doesn’t suit your little rant, does it?
These are the same people that had Brac artist Foots arrested, prosecuted, and acquitted last July. He was found to NOT have offended the very low ambient moral standards of Cayman. This lobby suffers acute recurring selective-amnesia of their past losses. They aren’t even willing to read the very expensive Judicial Review ruling in full. Idiots.
I really don’t care if “the majority of the population is against it”.
The point of human rights, and of the constitution, is that it protects everyone, minority or majority, equally.
In fact, if the majority are upset by this, it proves that the constitution is robust and doing it’s job by providing protection for a minority to have equal access to this society.
Scream and clutch your bibles all you want, you’re missing the point.
Sure all you liberal gay loving lifestyle supporters will agree with these Sly old Foxes hired to watch the hen house aka chicken coop, so it’s best to keep on fighting the self proclaimed God’s ant take back the power from them. Cayman donot have to accept this decision. Smellie, Bulgin, the HR Comissioner are no US supreme court life time appointees, so do whatever you have to fo to protect Caymanians from political tyranny!
Uh, is that a veiled threat of wiolence? Perhaps remember Matthew 5:9. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”
You sound like a typical old bigot. Can’t wait until your way of thinking has died out.
What a great time to be an Atheist. Witnessing the seperation of church from politics is a blessing in disguise.
Would you get rid of the moral obligation of government welfare then – to help those in need??
Being a atheist does not mean you cannot have compassion and care for others.
In fact, being an atheist means that your sense of morality comes from within rather than the threat of punishment or the promise of reward from an imaginary omniscient god.
As an atheist, when I do something good, it’s because I want to… not because I fear hell or want to get into heaven.
Morality and church are separate constructs
Caymanians do not seem to understand that it is the Human Rights Commission not the Religious Rights Commission. The ignorance of a large part of Caymanian society is incredible in comprehending the difference between human rights and religious rights.
Things that liberals LOVE, cherish and advocate:
1- Abortions
2- Homosexuality
3- Pedophilia/Polygamy/Perversion of sexuality in every imaginable way – Called Freedom of Expression – (See two girls one cup…. those are liberals)
4- Transgenderism and the destruction of gender based roles and responsibilities
5- Multiculturalism (As long as it erodes Judaeo-Christian traditional values)
6- Communism and Socialism (Stalin, Chavez, Castro, Guevara, Mandela, etc)
7- Government regulations which control people’s lives
8- Intolerance (They claim to be the most tolerant as long as you accept their worldview)
9- Lying (for the greater good of course, like their world master of lies, Barack Hussein Obama)
10- Satanism and the Illuminati
U OK Hun?
You are very misguided in your attempt at knowing what liberals like. I suggest you go back to listening to Alex Jones and being unliked by the general public.
Typical liberal response. Thank god for Alex Jones, the guy that pushes the truth 99% of the time.
Lol. How hot is a tinfoil hat in the summer here?
I think your tin foil hat is a bit too tight…
Yep, love it all. It’s called freedom of choice. Your comments seem to indicate that you have no idea what that’s all about.
Of course you do. Thanks for being honest.
What a strange and absurd list. Some points even contradict each other. And besides what does Obama have to do with Cayman?
You’ll know soon enough what is has to do with Cayman, when these liberal ideology is firmly planted on our shores.
And that comment is exactly why drugs are bad. Step away from the spliff please.
OMG what a disgraceful and hateful post especially in a country that accepts, in the name of God, hate against minorities, domestic violence and the rape of minors.
“7- Government regulations which control people’s lives” – aren’t the “Pro-lifers” pushing for exactly this? Or is it only wrong when the regulation differ from your views?
“9- Lying” – Thats all politicians including 45!
But on the whole your comment is absolute nonsense….
The 136 thumbs up is a true indication of how ignorant Cayman society is.
What is your main hobby? Collecting chromosomes?
You’re so absolutely deluded I don’t even know where to start.
Bravo to James Austin-Smith and the HRC for standing up to the bigots in the Assembly. One would think that homophobia like what was on display in the Assembly was a thing of the past. Wrong. Rather, they proclaim it loudly so all the world can see how backward the Cayman Islands are. What a disgrace. Not a single MLA had the balls to stand up for fairness and inclusion. Mr. Austin-Smith is entirely correct: Cayman will lose the appeal, and same-sex marriage will be the law of the land. And guess what? The sky won’t fall in. Instead, the entire country will benefit. Because, EQUALITY BENEFITS ALL.
Not really for gay marriage but the law is the law. At this point we are arguing the law not the act and Government will lose. They know that but they are doing it just to cater to their voters for the next election. So the public is financing their campaign so it is win win for them even if they lose the case and they know it. What a great day to be Alden! Never. Thought. I’d. Say. That.
But if they are Christians I don’t want to be one, look at the total waste of Government funds to build that complex on the bluff for 300 people max who are on that Island and able to use it. They have to truck water up the bluff for the pool. All perpetrated by Sister Julie and Moses for votes.
So while Mac told you what he was doing this Government is pulling the wool over our eyes, same thing.
Fear of homosexuallity is rampant here. But many other so called “sins” are alright and accepted. Why is that?
Because Christians pick and choose what to believe in.
Dem fraid of the D. Simple.
So right 7:00 am. Adultery is rampant among Caymanians but nobody seems to get upset about adultery. Guess Christians in Cayman don’t realise that adultery is a sin according to the Bible.
Recognize gay marriages and provide same rights and protections as normal couples, but they should be married elsewhere before coming to seek those rights.
4 kids with 4 different baby daddies is fine.
Crusty old MLAs hitting on 20year olds in the bars and promising to “help them out”? No problem.
Rampant incest to the point Cayman has its own disease (Cayman Cerebellar Ataxia) from it? No worries.
But two consenting adults committing to a long term stable relationship???? Hell no, that is an affront to our christian values!
You couldn’t make this up.
Does this ruling not make the rampant incest you mention legal? As long as they are both consenting adults does a man not have the human right to marry his sister with this ruling?
CNS: No, this ruling does not make those things legal. That’s just hysterical nonsense.
Thanks CNS. Sometimes these bigots really astonish me with their ignorance. But hey, ignorance is why there are bigots.
It will lead to that, cns! You can’t say that this ruling will not have far reaching consequences to the decline of our country’s morality.
CNS: Name one country where this has happened. It’s just insane rubbish.
I think that daddy’s raping their children is what you should be worried about.
Thums up to CNS
Right, just hysterical nonsense….. They just need more time…
Featured on Good Morning America 11 year old drag boy: https://youtu.be/JxdvOLdG_34
Teachers having Sex with 16 year old students, of course WHY NOT? says the _Teachers Unions_ of the public school system: https://goodschoolhunting.org/2019/04/teachers-unions-oppose-bill-make-sex-students-crime.html
(These are liberals)
CNS: Yes, it’s still hysterical nonsense. You’ve just googled randomly and tried to make “something I don’t like” into a part of the argument. These articles have absolutely nothing to do with incest.
Now, as for the Rhode Island link: Note that the representatives who introduced the bill are all Democrats. The reason the teachers unions opposed the bill is explained here in this video, where it is made clear that they do not oppose the goals of the bill. The right wing media outlet you linked to just missed out the relevant facts.
As for the boy drag queen, that video makes me feel very uncomfortable for the same reason that beauty pageants for 6-year-old girls makes me feel uncomfortable. I just don’t think that children should be displayed as sexual beings – which should not be a topic about political affiliations.
but you did…shameless!!
One of the best comments I’ve seen anywhere on a thread. I didn’t know Cayman was blessed(!) with it’s very own disability. How terribly sad. And avoidable.
Could have been done by the government ministers, but instead they chose to embrace hate and caveman thinking.
This might be the first time that representational politics has actually worked in the Cayman Islands.
Bermuda is fighting it and they’re pretty strong with their case, we in the Cayman Islands can too. Just give it up HRC….the majority of Caymanians are opposed to this strange ruling, the govt is correct, they represent us.
The majority of Caymanians do not support the government’s opposition to this ruling. And most of us are appalled and ashamed of the members that participated in the chest thumping and hollering that took place over the last two days in the LA.
How does this affect the daily life of Caymanians and residents? What about the REAL pressing issues of a failing public education system, inadequate infrastructure/road system, toxic dump, and ridiculous out of control cost-of-living?
What about finally dealing with the issue of caymanian birthrights? Why aren’t they spending time on those issues? Why does that not make them angry on our behalf?
Yes please be aware that not ALL Caymanians are against same sex marriage. Why would we want to discriminate against our own people because of their sexuality?
“Pretty strong with their case” How delusional. They’ve lost every single time in court, and Bermudian taxpayers have had to pay up to 150,000 U.S. dollars in cost.
You asked them all ?
That’s about 10000 adults.
It is irrelevant what people think.
The world is changing, and you have no choice but to join.
Cayman is kind of like that rotten old homophobic racist out of touch uncle that you have to invite to family gatherings. You’re just thinking ‘please shut up now so I can stop cringeing’.
Except you’re still happily living here, aren’t you?
My, My.
How Mr. James Austin Smith can state in his statement to the public. That the NAU and many other charities could benefit from the hundreds of thousands of dollars wasted to fight an appeal. Knowing full well The Government will lose the appeal. It was just about a year ago I put before The Human Rights Commission 2 cases.
1.) That the Cayman Islands Government had an obligation under the law to assist Caymanians who are living with The HIV VIRUS, with proper and adequate housing, food allowance and indefinite insurance coverage as an indigent. I also stated it was my belief that I as a born Caymanian and voting citizen of The Cayman Islands. I was being discriminated against by The CAYMAN ISLANDS Government. In March 2018, letter dated from Director of NAU, my housing, food assistance was being stopped. My CINICO INSURANCE has to be reassead every 3 years. I have an encurable disease, which is only controlled with daily ARV’S MEDICATION.
HRC SAID NO DISCRIMINATION TOOK PLACE.
2.) I filed a complaint against CAYMAN AIRWAYS, for not hiring me. Due to my HIV POSITIVE STATUS. And that it was my belief, I was being discriminated against.
HRC RULED NO DISCRIMINATION TOOK PLACE.
SO HEAR THIS MR. James Austin Smith. Now it is my turn to take my case before The Cayman Islands Courts and left them decide .The Cayman Islands Government has been given many an opportunity to right the Discrimination and indjustices I have had to live with for almost 7 years since being diagnosed with the HIV VIRUS ON 1ST OCTOBER 2012.
Read the law of the land my people. The Courts have the final say. Why is it that Government after Government in The Cayman Islands think, they have the right to DISCREMINATE AND NOT protect it’s
citizens.
LAST TIME I CHECKED. THE CAYMAN ISLANDS HAVE BEEN SUBJECT TO. THE EUROPEAN CONVENTION ON HUMAN RIGHTS, SINCE THE 1950’S.
Signed,
Chet Oswald Ebanks.
Incredible to go from excellent PR to ridicule in a day. Not as bad as Brunei but still..
No one was told to disrupt the wedding ceremony! The notice was read and it stated that the public has seven days to raise or lodge their objections. Juliana informed the people if they intended to make an objection, it had to be done within given seven days. What part of that statement is inciting violence, or instructing the people to disrupt the wedding ceremony?
No, Boris. I’m sorry, go back and read the article! O’Connor Connolly said:
“She told people they could object to the union ahead of the wedding, but if they missed that “window of opportunity”, they should go to the ceremony and object then.”
That’s normal procedure why are you upset ?
It is illegal to object to the wedding, unless they are underage, or you are already married to one of these women, or are carrying their love seed (all of which I doubt). Disturbing the Peace and/or Causing a Public Mischief is punishable by Police Law (2017) and Penal Code (2017), and you’d be looking at 3-5 years in jail. Maybe you should go for it, just to see what happens? I expect security will be tight.
lol , what happens if the whole island goes and outnumber the police 🤣
Then lots of $40 fees will be collected that can be put towards covering the costs of this appeal by gov that’s about to lose pathetically.
First, there must be a valid reason (ie. error in law) to file the appeal. Privy Council is not like some crackerjack regional court where you can allege anything you want without proof. I doubt an appeal would be accepted by Privy Council given the Constitution is designed to protect the weak or voiceless minority, not prop the bullying majority (if that is even the case). All this does is highlight how unsuitable this legislature is, and maybe that will trigger electoral reform with other Orders.
If I was a police officer, I’d love to attend. Getting paid to support a cause against discrimination and ignorance, whilst providing a service of reassurance to LGBT members of the community.
There are around 400 police officers. Sadly, it appears that there are definitely more than 400 people with questionable decision making skills when it comes to equality and hypocritical actions.
Unfortunately for the extremist Christian fools, a bible is not much protection against pepper spray or a baton.
Kenneth Bryant wants the gay community to reject Smellie’s ruling to keep the peace? what the hell is he smoking, must be some strong stuff!!!
I mean, I enjoy some grades every now and then and all I wish for is that we Caymanians would stop fighting and just be at peace with everyone.
One love. All the best to everyone in this chaos.. May one day we legalize a God given herb too. I think if we all sat down and passed a joint around with some patties and cool drink, we’d have the whole matter settled and over with in a hour flat. 🙂
Au contraire, Jesus was NOT on the side of hate, discrimination, and tyranny. He stood up for everyone (even your enemies) and commanded you to do the same.
John 13:34
Can someone start a petition on removing that hateful, confused, woman Juliana from office?
Yes, but they ALL unanimously took turns, including the chuckling Speaker, over 2 days and 6 hours of hate-filled homophobic ranting – all snickering in collusion to “get it (their appeal case) tight”. eg. Chris Saunders anecdotally sighted the 70 phone calls he received from his 380 faithful that put him in that chair. That’s not a majority sounding from his district. I guess the other 310 either respect the CJ decision, or don’t have his number to whine about their defeat. The others did the same…including Bernie Bush, and Ezzard Miller which disappointed me. Video is on YouTube.
Fool
Who Bernie Bush is? Does he work here?
And why I will not vote for a single one of them at the next election. If you are not currently in gov. this is time to think about running next time.
She is far from confused. She knows exactly what she is doing. She should have been in jail already for what she is doing and was doing.
This is not about religion or laws. This is about culture. Caymanian culture. Which has its own rules and laws that do not follow all of man’s law or God’s law. Very much like sharia law. Like Sharia law it does not take into account the rights of all. This would be fine if the Cayman islands were standing alone. Most of its customers, citizens, and workforce, basically the life’s blood of the island Will not agree to be subjected to its laws and limitations. Caymanians most choose what to give up. The parts of their culture that are not agreeable to all or learn to live apart from the rest of the modern world. This both an individual and collective choice. How you choose will determine your future and the future of the Cayman islands.
Many Caymanians are gay, so homosexuality is a part of our culture, like it or not.
Or, you can join the rest with their heads in the sand who think there’s no gay Caymanians and homosexuality is purely an expat thing.
Statistically speaking there are just as many Gay Caymanians as any other demographic. Same with pedophiles, corrupt Government officials, straight people, etc. I am talking about acceptance of Gays. Cayman Culture will accept much that is considered sin in its interpretation of the Bible but not that one. Ask yourself why that is so. Think hard on this.
Ii take the thumbs down to mean you disagree that there are gay Caymanians. If you actually believe that is true you are sadly wrong. It is a fact they exist. They are real. They might even me your family members. This is a fact not an alternative fact. You can argue about gay marriage or not, but not about the fact they are real people born and raised here.
It appears that the HRC is only concerned about the immoral behaviours of a few and totally ignore the rights of the majority of CAYMANIANS. First off, the Chief Justice should not be legislating from the bench! I note that the FCO is pleased with the decision but not with the Government appealing it; what right do they have trying to impose immoral behaviours on us.
CNS: It is not the job of the HRC to concern itself with morality generally. From the HRC website (see here), “The primary responsibility of the Commission is to promote understanding and observance of human rights in the Cayman Islands.” To understand what are human rights here, read the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. See here.
Marriage is not a human right – for heterosexuals or homosexuals. Homosexuals and persons who back them have simply repeated it enough that the average joe now believes it and repeats it. Think about it. No one has the RIGHT to marry, it is a choice made by adults. The definition of marriage is determined by society. The UK believes it is a human right but the European Court of Human Rights does not agree.
The HRC is irresponsible in making the statement that government should not appeal. In addition to the larger public’s view of the definition of marriage, the LA also discussed that the appeal has to be brought to address the bigger more important constitutional issue of whether this judge overstepped his authority to make law from the bench. The appeal may fail because the UK has their agenda of legalizing gay marriage in all territories, but this appeal must go ahead. I agree with Ezzard Miller, we must make moves to ensure that this is not allowed to happen ever again from the bench. It is not just this issue at stake; when judges start making decisions you don’t like in the future you will understand what is at stake for our country.
It looks like the ECHR is right on this issue and not sold out to or influenced by the LGBT lobby. You can not make what is a man-made or God-made institution, such as Marriage, a human right! You can not! And expect the whole country to comply. It never was a human right and never will be.
To impose what is a sexual lifestyle on the people of these islands is pure leftist and draconian. The OT’s don’t have to follow pro-gay law-makers.
I am dissappointed in how slow our government reacted to this dire issue, which the ssm law is a pandoras box.
Unison
Hi Unison, 11.48, i think you have fallen into a number of mistakes:
“you can not make what is a man-made or God made institution, such as marriage, a human right”
Yes, you can. The constitution does exactly that, it makes it a human right for heterosexuals to be able to get married and for their marriage to be respected. So your initial point is floored. Secondly, if it is man made then it can be changed or amended. Thirdly, as has been explained by numerous others, the Christian god did not create marriage, certainly between 1 man and 1 women. It exists in all cultures and many of those have nothing to do with the Christian god.
“to impose what is a sexual lifestyle on the the people of these islands is pure leftist and draconian”. Again technically that is wrong. It is actually more libertarian than leftist, it is ensuring that the Government is not interfering in people’s lives, a leftist Law would be more controlling.
Whether gay marriage is draconian….. Well do you have to marry a person of your own sex? No… ok so doesn’t seem to be draconian. Is it making your marriage any less meaningful? No…. can you hold a personal belief that gay marriage is not correct… yes. So please explain to me how it is draconian? It doesn’t effect you (unless you are gay… are you?)
I think its how you see what is a human right? The drafters of our constitution took the UK’s view. I believe you have rights with different levels of importance. The rights I defend are rights that are morally and naturally based like the “right to life.” Such rights ensures the survival and progression of human life. Common sense will tell anyone that if you place any other “right” to trump over a right thats based on survival and human progression, that right, considered a “special right,” if enforced, will easily destroy a democracy.
It is either we legislated entitlements based on true sustainance of human life APPLIED TO ALL, or we go down the slippery slope of legislating personal desires and lifestyle choices on everyone.
In this case, the ECHR should have draft our Constitution. They have a better perspective of what is truly a human right APPLIED TO ALL versus a special privelege right of a minority PUSHED ON ALL -https://eclj.org/marriage/the-echr-unanimously-confirms-the-non-existence-of-a-right-to-gay-marriage
Unison
No one is forcing you into a gay marriage or to change your sexual orientation, so how is the lifestyle being imposed on you?
Your heterosexual marriages remain unaffected nor have you lost any rights.. except to deny homosexuals the rights they deserve.
No, you cannot compare them to pedophiles.
Ok, Corrections time….
It is a Human Right not to be discriminated against on the grounds of sexual orientation. if heterosexuals’ can get married then so can homosexuals.
What made it impossible to win for the CIG was that there was no civil partnership which is the bare minimum the ECHR say is required. So if you want to be pedantic it is a human right to a have a similar institution as marriage.
the HRC is not acting irresponsible, it is acting as per the Constitution… something which lots of people fail to understand is a requirement of CJ and the HRC in this case.
The CJ’s decision is supported by precedent in a number of Privy Council cases. He has not just made these decision lightly.
It is remarkable about the level of ignorance that people have in regards to the constitution. It is vital that unconstitutional law can be struck down, just like happens in America.. Roe v Wade, the Muslim Travel Ban.. These are both examples of laws which were struck down by Courts.
You wouldn’t be impressed if tomorrow the LA created a law which stated that Cayman was a secular utopia and that there would be a tax issued on every Christian in the island would you? that’s why you did Judaical scrutiny. There cannot be one law for Christians and one law for others.
Then smarty, marry if you want to get marry? No one is stopping you. Just don’t use the state or government to do it! Keep your marriage privatize!
And if you need benefits for your “spouse” like medical or inheritance, simply seek for a civil unions law. Then its win-win for everyone. But same-sex marriage law is not a win-win solution!
Thank you for recognizing the strength of my arguments. I am married and not a homosexual.
The point that you make about civil unions is interesting. That’s what Chantelle and Vicky did but the Gov did nothing. They waited and waited and nothing happened. They were forced into this action by the government and the CJ was forced to rule in the way that he did because of the governments inactions.
The Government had years to introduce a civil union alternative to marriage since the 2009 constitution came into play. They chose not to act. They were reminded on multiple occasion by the HRC and lawyers that the marriage law needed updating. The Government failed to act. CJ Smellie could not grant a civil union as he can’t make new laws. What he could do, which is what he had to do – amend the marriage law which was not compliant with the Bill of Rights. As it stood the old, discriminatory marriage law was invalid.
Don’t get mad at people doing their jobs properly. Get mad at the LA for burying their heads in the sand and forcing this situation to arise.
Too much vitriol too late. Leave these poor people alone to get on with their lives.
Smellie’s Constitutional ruling actually voided the Marriage Law, and it is still up to the LA to amend it. His ruling is not legislating from the bench.
Hon. McLaughlin, God Almighty is on your side! You do your part and He will do the rest, come what may!
You are dilusional. He is more concerned about votes that your imaginary hateful God..
There is no god and there is no satan.
We will see where your TRUST is when you’re on your death bed. Don’t play with the Source ☝🏽
Chantelle and Vicky please sue their asses for millions, you deserve and will get it!!!!!
You do realise that one of those asses is yours and your family’s as well. Get a grip!
Here we go, because money is the answer to solve this issue ? Go back up and read joe b and let that sink in.
It is not the answer it never was a factor! but now out of principle
It will be worth it!!!
It will come from the public purse which we all pay in to so……f&%k NO!!
Maybe we could all use (yet) another lesson that (again) demonstrates how provincially ill-advised, ego-driven, and cowardly our MLAs are. Maybe then, we will think seriously about the kind of electoral reforms that can deepen the pond of eligible candidates and perhaps convince smarter people, without personal economic or power motivation, to serve, educate, and shape a more inclusive justice for all. It’s not going to happen without painful necessary defeats on the shoulders of this lot.
. . . “Let the jury consider their verdict,” the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.
“No, no!” said the Queen. “Sentence first–verdict afterward.”
“Stuff and nonsense!” said Alice loudly. “The idea of having the sentence first!”
“Hold your tongue!” said the Queen, turning purple.
“I won’t!” said Alice.
“Off with her head!” the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.
“Who cares for you?” said Alice. (She had grown to her full size by this time.) “You’re nothing but a pack of cards!”
I read that and the image of Alden as the small timid king and Mac as the red queen popped into my mind.
Great post.
Watching the leaders of our government quote bible verses in the LA makes me cringe!! The government and the church must be separate! I wish there were laws against this crap!
The Cayman Islands legislative assembly, now officially twinned with the Westboro baptist church…
They began the session I saw with a prayer to god to give them strength to defy this and then went into chanting the lords prayer.
I genuinely thought church and government was meant to be separate but as we can see, Cayman has their own way of laws and things..
It seems to me like a referendum is needed. Let the people decide!
We can have a referendum on the port at the same time!
5 referendums are needed..
1. Same sex marriage
2. Cruise port
3. legalizing cannabis for recreational use
4. Nude beaches
5. Gambling
6. Monorail.
7. North Sound “Chunnel”
8. Better cell service and pricing.
9. Electric company competition.
10. Consumer Protection Bill
10. A referendum to decide if we should have a referendum.
11. A referendum to decide who can vote in referendums.
Or should 11 come before 10?
12. A referendum to implement a recall provision so if a majority of a district’s registered voters sign it they have the ability to recall their MLA and force a by-election.
Lucky 13. Enact the $%^#ing SIPL Law!
13. The Dump referendum. Right to clean air, water and environment.
14. free masks for all…no emissions control, pollution from ships and old cars with no monitor of air or water pollution and no incinerator filters at the dump. Everyone should be wearing a mask here.
15. An equitable and enforced vendor licensing scheme for public beaches.
Such a referendum would contravene the Cayman Constitution, specifically Article 70(1) which prohibits the holding of a referendum that would violate the Bill of Rights or any other part of the Constitution. Since the Constitution now recognises same-sex marriage as a fundamental right, a referendum on this issue would thus be unconstitutional.
You cant change something by referendum which was/is already defined/clear in the Consitution.
This government needs to be put to a no confidence vote for promoting hate/discrimination against its own people.
But who will be left? Dem all wearing the same hate badge.
Would the HRC please explain to me why countries out in the Middle East and Far East can get away with having laws where sins such as rape, bigotry and having sex with someone of the same sex is punishable by death? They are allowed to get away with stoning people to death for committing these “crimes” and no one from any “Human Rights Commission” steps in to stop it. However us living in the “Western” world have to abide by the “Human Rights Laws” which as I understand it, rules the world and all it’s Religions and discriminating laws????
Why don’t you move to the Middle East if you like it so much
Yea, see if they approve of Christianity whilst you’re at it. That comment alone demonstrates the total ignorance of a certain section of Caymanian society. Get out into the world bobo, and I don’t mean just out of your district.
Make sure you go further than Miami also….
and posts like that show why our real problems are the lack of education in our society
They also have law courts which don’t require rigorous evidence, or indeed any evidence come to that, before sentencing people. That OK with you? Because one day their corrupt police may come knocking on your door.
Moron. They don’t have Human Rights Commisions you uneducated bigot.
Yes! High fives
So Section 116 of the Bill of Rights establishes the HRC with the purpose of promoting understanding and observance of human rights in the Cayman Islands. So the HRC is only allowed to deal with issues in the Cayman Islands. I am sure that they would like to stop stoning in the middle east but that is not really their remit.
It is a good thing to abide by Human Rights Law, it will protect for instance the Minsters if the Government tried to force them to conduct gay marriage. Human Rights make us a more tolerant and better society and a more inclusive one at that. It helps gets the best out of Cayman as opposed to limiting and restricting it.
because at the end of the day, lets face it… Gay Marriage… Has it changed Cayman in any way? Is anything different today that last Thursday?
Because those Middle Eastern countries are ruling with Sharia law, the extremist version of Islam. Those countries tolerate human rights laws but only when it suits them. These are the same religious zealots that fly planes into skyscrapers and blow themselves up on buses.
You had me until the “flying planes in skyscrapers and blowing themselves up” part.
Because they are ruled by a monarch or dictator and are free to oppress their people as they please. If you’d like that for Cayman I am sure some of our MLAs would be more than interested in the role
They ALL would!
Still no drug rehab, or mental health facilities, no public park maintenance, no street lights or sidewalks…but suspending business in the LA and overturning a “loosing” Constitutional Judicial Review is the top priority of our non-reading MLAs. Can the governor please intervene to sanction some of them and broaden Caymanian eligibility to bring in smarter candidates and reflect the voting population?
Unfortunately, our MLA’s are not spiritually, emotionally, or mentally developed enough to lead this country. We deserve better!!!!!.
No public transportation. No proper waste management.
Is this the same HRC that sent their leader on radio to state that having a job is not a human right?
So you have the right to have a family, but not to work and support the same family.
Of course work isn’t a human right. It depends on eduction, experience, skill level, suitability, integrity, honesty and a whole raft of other factors. It’s your right to seek work, as it is to get and maintain an education, by no one has the right to insist on work, they have to work to get and maintain a job.
BTW, having a family is a responsibility that requires the couple to ensure they can support and maintain that responsibility towards their family. It is not the the responsibility of others to pick up the pieces if you fail to uphold that responsibility due to a lack of education, experience, skills etc…..
Isn’t it ironic that Civil Servants and many Caymanians in general are scared to speak up on most issues because of an ingrained fear of societal repercussions but we see this CIG member up on her mighty throne encouraging hate.
Why doesn’t she lose her position, salary, and job for speaking out? It is now law that same sex couples can be married. It’s not up for discussion.
O’Connor Connolly is being unlawful. The education system in Cayman is appalling.
Fire O’Connor Connolly.
The best comment so far. Read auditor general statement issued in 2014.
The gorilla in the LA floor is that no longer can bible stomping and preaching get you re-elected because, guess what? Polítics is based on law, NOT Scriptures. For years, a few of our legislators used that angle – come on down, all new contenders!!
May sanity prevail! Thank you HRC. And thank you Chantelle and Vickie for your bravery 🏳️🌈
There is absolutely, and I mean absolutely, nothing unique about Cayman nor it’s culture.
Cayman is scrubby, dirty, and corrupt.
The education system is failing. Yet, the Education Minister, O’Connor Connelly, is more concerned with staging a protest for a WEDDING than fixing real problems at the core of Cayman society. She is on the news advocating to RUIN a wedding!!
The dump is towering, without even so much as a countrywide recycling program.
The environment is far from important with the port and Barkers ready and set to go.
A 50 story tower in the making.
Bio waste piling up at the hospital curb.
Now add to that blatant, outright discrimination.
You can’t make this stuff up.
The Cayman Islands has always been xenophobic and homophobic, now they are making world wide news.
Kiss your tourism product good bye. The Cayman Islands dirty secrets are being exposed.
Agree. Batabano parade speaks volumes about its culture.
Hats off to the HRC for a perfectly expressed and factual analysis of the CJ’s judgement with a thorough and studious explanation for his reasoning, more than can be said for the immature, disrespectful and ill mannered display to the Caymanian people in the LA yesterday ….. intelligent, inclusive leadership is what our country needs now not a basket of bigoted deplorables …. inciting intolerance and disharmony. I hope the PPM takes the “progressive” out of their tag line as “regressive” is a much better label …. to describe a party of the absurd.
we all also need the governor to come out with a strong statement against this ‘appeal’…
we are waiting….
hrc showing the true traits of christianity…..
look and learn, caymanians!
Legalize Marijuana!
Save a few million and just go straight to crystal meth
We all know it’s going to fail, including the politicians ,the only reason they are spending our money (government funds) is to look good with their votes as elections are right around the corner. When it fails they then will say “we tried and its the UKs fault” .
I think all these well meaning very Christian legislatures should just all chip in and pay for the appeal themselves, that way they can use that as a election ploy. Miss Juliana should really lead the way and open up her pocketbook.
The HRC has never ever cared about poor Caymanians, hunger, education but choose to use them now as red herrings to try and dissuade people from supporting an appeal.
It is the lowest form of logic and the highest form of arrogance to try and pass off their pleasure with the outcome as sound law.
Will the HRC now take up the other important Caymanian cause of Caymanians who are preventing from running for office? You bet, because that’s next.
I get they have a job to do and that they would be supportive of the Petitioners and so be it. But Human Rights can’t come at the cost of unsound judgments- ones that leave us open for other strange interpretations of other laws such as our Elections Law. Perhaps that’s exactly what they want and this judgment has opened up pandora’s box.
Let’s pray the appeal closes it back.
Please visit http://humanrightscommission.ky and review their annual reports which cover topics such as Education Bill, Minimum Wage, Development of a National Mental Health Policy among 30 odd pages more of topics.
Facts. But the hateful uneducated choose to hear the word on the street rather than research for themselves.
The problem with your analysis is that the judgment isn’t unsound. It may not agree with your personal views but it is absolutely consistent with the constitution. Hell the governments own case was based purely on an argument of what the drafting intention was rather than what was passed into law. The poster’s sarcastic comment about right to run for office is actually spot on. Just waiting for a challenge on that as well – then you will see real fireworks when the like of JCC can’t rely on an artificial narrowing of the pool of potential competitors to ensure she is reeelcted based on a handful of votes.
***** Simple:
R-E-F-E-R-E-N-D-U-M
This is the only last option to overturn a one-judge ruling 😏
A referendum would probably contravene the Cayman Constitution. Per Article 70(1), referendums can only be held on “a matter or matters of national importance” (I doubt same-sex weddings are that important), and said referendum must not contravene the Bill of Rights or any other part of the Constitution, which now recognises the right of gay couples to marry. A referendum would thus violate this provision and be unconstitutional.
70(1) only applies to a people’s initiates referendum, section 69 has no limitations, …the motion for the appeal was done an an issue of “utmost national importance”.. section 69 of the constitution speaks to issues of national importance.
Having listed to the two days of the LA, the only MLA who might be persuaded to bring a private members motion id George Town Central – Bryan, so petition him, and other MLAs to have a referendum vote in the LA, since the issue is outside the remit of the people’s initiated referendum under section 70(1)
Highly doubtful that same-sex marriage would be considered a matter of national importance by the courts.
It seems that every time something is to be decided that it should be put to the people to weigh in or decide. That is the most backward shit ever.
That is democracy my friend and when the electors feel that it should be them making the decision rather than the legislators or Judges in this case then it most go to referendum..
What you all aren’t getting is the judge is acting reasonably under the constitution in the way that it is written. There is no referendum on this, unless you want a referendum to rewrite the constitution to bar judges this priviledge.
There is a clearly identified need for constitutional reform to ensure that an unaccountable branch of government can never again subvert the expressed will of the people.
Just have a national referendum. Should not be left to one unelected judge to decide a country’s fate.
The Constitution does not allow a Referendum on Human Rights issues. Has anyone on this island actually read it ?
you want a referendum for caymanians to ‘legalise’ discrimination????
classic wonderland stuff…..zzzzzzzzzzz
The people you woted for had every opportunity to address the rights issue without having to change the definition of marriage!
Now they debate for an appeal because of their own inaction and to secure the wotes of the churches.
It should also not be left to a small group of hateful, homophobic, narrow-minded ignorant bible bashers.
What ‘traditional’ family values are Caymanians so worried about keeping?
Adultery
Child abuse
Incest
Domestic violence
I promise you, allowing same-sex marriages is not going to erode your “traditional family values”.
Google “Judicial Review”…the Constitution protects everyone equally, including all minorities, especially when harm is overwhelmingly aimed at them. That’s the whole point of having common rights, Constitutional protections, and Judicial Review. We can’t turn our basic code of conduct on and off when it suits us, or vote it out of the way because we don’t like how it makes us feel about ourselves when we’re found to be deep in the wrong.
The HRC are doing gods work. Prayers sent to them for all of their hard work.
Does the HRC receive any public funds? If so, this needs to stop immediately as they seem to be more engaged in politics than they are in anything to do with human rights. The HRC is being hypocritical and their leadership is trapped in a group think that is preventing them from seeing that they themselves are engaged in discrimination against people that want to protect traditional family values and to take a stand against deviant conduct and immorality.
One of the roles the HRC, as with any Council, is to advise, encourage and warn the government of the day. The government may or may not listen to them, but when the shit hits the fan, the HRC can say… “see? I told you so.”
If ears can’t hear, ass must feel.
What rights did you have Friday night that you didn’t have Saturday morning?
Nothing has been taken from you.
Also you don’t actually belebel Cayman is the one finding the HRC right? You can’t be that dense.
Deviant conduct? According to who? You? Define deviant conduct. What might be deviant to you is good clean fun to the rest of us. Go for it girls!!!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 love it
Let the arm chair lawyers commence their arguments as to why the CJ, the HRC and those who have read the summary are wrong.
On your marks, get set go….
“It’s because the bible says so… “
“Judicial overreach”
“God will flood us”
Oh dear me!
Finally…some common sense!
We will laugh when such a futile attempt to deny equality to deserving Caymanians fail.
.
What a waste of the taxpayers money to discriminate against our own people!
I totally agree but I won’t be laughing. I’ll be praying and crying for our children and the indigent who we continue to let suffer because of our government’s selfishness and blind stupidity.
I pray for your children to recognize what a hateful parent they have. Hate is taught, love is instinctual.
Thank you Void!
I hope you all show up in support if the location of the marriage is revealed to Julianna’s army of bigots.
We should form a peace circle around the event.