Pension exodus emerging as reality
(CNS): The predicted exodus of expatriate workers as a result of changes to the pensions law appears to be becoming a challenging reality for Cayman. From small businesses losing experienced staff to mass departures from larger employers, the warnings that more than two thousand people could leave the island before the end of December appear to be coming true. But despite alarm bells ringing and the mounting evidence that many work permit holders will be leaving in the middle of peak season, there is still no indication from government that the relevant authorities are taking any action to deal with this potential human resource crisis.
Deputy Opposition Leader Alva Suckoo (Newlands) has voiced his concern that the government has missed an opportunity to get the many unemployed and underemployed locals into some of the vacancies being created by the exodus, but he is also concerned that business is going to be seriously affected.
Suckoo filed a private member’s motion about the issue, which government rejected at the last Legislative Assembly meeting in August as the premier, who has responsibility for both immigration and labour in the coalition government he leads, said there was no basis to believe there would be an exodus of workers as a result of pension law changes. He described the exodus as purely speculative with no data to support it.
But over the last few weeks CNS has been collecting anecdotal evidence from expatriates who are planning to leave, business owners likely to lose key workers, human resources departments trying to organise replacements for large numbers of people resigning and rental agents losing tenants, all of which point to what could be a serious economic problem within the next few weeks.
Foster’s Food Fair has said that nearly two dozen workers have already given notice, Tortuga is losing key staff, while the Marriott Hotel and the Ritz-Carlton, Grand Cayman are understood to be losing hundreds of people — just some of the major businesses across Cayman that have confirmed they are losing staff who want to leave before the pension refund ban kicks in on 1 January.
Speaking to CNS, Suckoo said he raised the issue through the motion because he knew there was a high potential that many people would leave so they could claim their full pension.
“My first concern was that if the government did not address the issue proactively and try to get as many Caymanians either into those vacated jobs or on a path to qualify, this would be a lost opportunity,” he said. “My second concern is business continuity. If businesses experience a sudden exodus of labour, they are going to be negatively impacted and this will clearly not benefit them or the economy.”
Noting that his motion addressed both of these concerns, he said he was very disappointed that the government dismissed them and voted against the motion, “and now they are left with no alternative but to ensure that businesses get replacement work permits”.
Small business owners told CNS about having to face a general disruption to their business with experienced and trained staff leaving, and the fact that not everyone has revealed their intentions. They said they fear that at the end of November all their foreign workers impacted may decide to give notice, leaving them with just four weeks to find and replace valued staff, which they have no doubt would impact their businesses.
There is also a groundswell of speculation that the departure of thousands of workers and their dependents will negatively impact the economy and have a chilling effect on government’s rosy predictions for growth.
In October 2013, when the previous PPM administration was faced with the potential mass exodus of about 1,500 term limit extension permit holders (the result of a stop-gap initiative to tackle the post-Hurricane Ivan departure of workers), the government amended the Immigration law to stop that from happening.
Justifying this amendment, Premier Alden McLaughlin said, “We would have had close to 1,500 people with dependents leaving the country at once; people not buying groceries, not paying rent, not buying gas. It just wasn’t in the best interest of the Cayman Islands.”
But now, presented with another exodus that is potentially far greater and would create very similar circumstances, the government is taking no action.
“Once again, the Caymanian people have been relegated to low priority and the ‘Unity’ government has chosen to play politics with my motion rather than seize an opportunity to help those who need it,” Suckoo said.
See the debate in the LA last month and the premier’s position on the issue on CIGTV below:
Category: Jobs, Local News, Policy, Politics
I am reposting a very good comment, for many are missing the point made.
Anonymous says:
05/10/2017 at 6:52 am
One of the MLAs was on the radio this week and clarified that the regulation was asked for by the Pension providers since they said the constant redemptions were impacting their returns and ability to manage money.
For those familiar with Ponzi schemes, this would be their wet dream (i.e. rules that don’t allow people to redeem).
Also seeing as Pension fund managers make money on a percentage of AUM (Assets under management), this new law also solidifies their future earnings by limiting the amount of withdrawals even if performing badly.
Yeah! I LOVE Bankers and money people. They leave plenty of room in heaven for honest people.
Yep – and we all know the Cayman private sector is the true leader of the Legislative Assembly.
Caymanians vote for their country men feeling that they are exercising their diplomatic rights and putting a “Caymanian” in power to defend their future, country and family…
Then their country men take up the “seat of power” after being voted in and start shoveling deals with private sector companies and investors to ensure their own place in the wealth management department of our local retail banks.
As the radio commercial goes “70% of Caymanians do not have a tertiary education”… elections season proves that those 70% must have barely made it through high school.
I always wondered why our politicians speak in an almost illiterate fashion when doing their election campaigns – then I realize that the majority of audience members cannot understand statistics, law or any form of data that can actually help a voter to make an informed decision; versus one centered around who is giving away turkeys and appliances, who had the best refreshments and who gets the most hoots and whistles…. oh boy. Leave it to our voters.
The arrogance, narcissism and lack of political maturity of Alden McLaughlin coupled with his total control of the other elected ppm minions will accelerate the slide of the Cayman Islands into a third world country. His stubborn views and inability to be wrong whilst carrying out his personal vendettas in the political arena are a recipe for disaster. The end is near
Politicians are your servants, not kings or dictators. You allow them to become kings and dictators.
All I can do is say well he told you so! He was lough at and lot of ppl posted all the mean stuff yet here we are! When the ppl of this island will stop playing follow the party color and just speaks for each one self stop following the crowd its not always the best way!
Some Go, More Come..
Ahhh, the old ‘black dog white dog’ compassion statement
I wish I could use my pension payments as an additional mortgage payment. For me securing the roof over my head is a better use of the money than letting some investment manager lose it on crappy investments!
Don’t buy what you can’t afford.
Good point.
I can afford it! Who doesn’t want to pay off their mortgage sooner than later?
You sound like one of those crappy investment managers.
I said it before I saying it again. Is common sense. Most Professional and Executive give 3 months notice so they would give notice August / September. Most other trades Inc. unskilled give 24 hours to 1-2 month. So now the professional giving notice to leave December. I know plenty going. This is just the start. Many more to come.
I wish we could stop all the hate round here. Is the MLAs who started it years ago with their election campaign. Then they started making laws which just created a huge divide (Immigration law and Pension Law obvious example). Then they continue spouting all kinds of nonsense and worse still, everyone believe them. Then it all turn sour and bitter. Very sad to see what Cayman has become in the hands of our politrixians.
When will we ever learn and will we ever be able to live harmoniously again? Serious ting yet government take we for joke and we continue to believe their spin and lip service when the only people they out for is themselves.
Exactly. The notice period dictates when we will start to see the effect.
Caymanians also do not realise that some of these professional jobs simply will not be filled once the expat leaves. Think about it …how many professional workers have access to work from home already? open your eyes …home does not have to be in Cayman !! I know some professionals leaving that have been offered and will now do the same job from home in another country.
So Cayman is the only ones that suffer as professionals and their family leave which means less spending in Cayman on rent, food, entertainment etc.
The jobs that have to be filled in Cayman like cleaners and servers Caymanians do not want anyway.
caymamanian politicians are not for caymanians!!!! period!? and yes, i am a native caymanian
Easily solved- offer a living wage of $8 per hour and send a message to those who pay slave wages. That amount will get
Locals into jobs and for gosh sakes give them respect and a few perks and you will have loyal lifetime local employees! I’m glad the answer is to employ and train locals. Damn politicians….
Lets try keep the hurricane refugees from BVI ect?
Wouldn’t it be prudent if Government required the pension providers to keep track of the number of people sending in paperwork to redeem their funds? Maybe a monthly email to the ESO guys, then at least they would know?
That won’t start happening for 2 years
Some of us , when this was first talked about , saw the writing on the wall and left as soon as we could. I left over a year ago withy family. Phew!
God forbid! Alden has said there is no problem – last thing he wants is evidence.
Da wha ya get ….why people from foreign get free money and not Caymanian.
Either you are being super sarcastic or you are unbelievably dumb! Your language skills lend me to believe the later.
Language skills….Latter…
Clearly you weren’t here for the “dat what you get” famous radio advert of 1999- you are showing your “expat inexperience” of humorous local laughs.
Touche! Phone changed it.
Latter
That’s what the law is designed to fix. Now Caymanians (who live here) can get to some of their money but expats who leave can’t get to any of their money until they retire, and even then they are limited to a pithy monthly amount, which before you ask, is the same as Caymanians can withdraw, $1,000 a month.
That $1k month is one of the things being changed, generally speaking a pension is usually only accessible when you retire, the law does allow you to transfer it to your home country…
It’s not free money it’s our money taken from our wages, and the employers contribution too. Same as you if you work.
Caymanians can also leave and get full pension after 2 years
Not according to the law I read
and they are
My pension provider informed it also applies to Caymanians
I’m a Caymanian and it certainly does apply to Caymanians as well
Your provider may say that but the law says differently.
If you stop working in the Cayman Islands and leave the islands, you can:
transfer the cash value of your Silver Thatch investments to another pension plan; orcash in your Silver Thatch investments and receive the proceeds as a one-time, lump-sum payment.
Keep in mind that you can cash in your investments only if, in the preceding two years:
you have not been a resident of the Cayman Islands,you have not worked in the Cayman Islands, andno contributions have been made to Silver Thatch on your behalf.
it dose
Are we honestly pretending that if all these people leave that suddenly every caymanian is just going to have a job? ( if you do you are lying to yourself) These jobs are going to go right back to a new set of expats who would rather have a job here than 3 jobs in their respective countries of origin. The presence of expats is beneficial, fact, the thing is with facts whether you like them or not they are true.
The whole Us vs.Them thing that caymanians seem to love doing is getting really tiring, we look at the nationalistic shitshow the US has gotten itself into and we laugh but on the path we are headed we are no better, look at how caymanians react to one Imam coming here and talking to caymanians ( the generic response oh he doesn’t know our values and culture and what we believe in) yet persons from around the world are always the ones invited to come speak to caymanians, the only difference cared about here is Yahweh vs *insert name of religion or god here*
Point is don’t expect change the current unemployment rate is completely natural we need to focus on educating our citizens and planning for the future, Dart can’t be expected to do everything around here
Your Humble Caymanian Thinker,
Diogenes
We are going to build a wall. What are you going to do?
Donald is that you, aren’t you supposed to be running America or something (or trying to at least) ?
….and I’m not paying for it, thank you.
F&$#%@ moron
MAGA!
“anecdotal” so no actual hard numbers to back this up. Even the places claiming ‘pension departures’ didn’t say how that compares to how many they turn over in a regular year anyway. There’s lies & statistics but this article doesn’t even try to hide behind statistics.
We lost 20 percent of our workforce for this reason. The resignations came in late September. We usually have had under 3% turnover historically per annum.
Our business is professional services. Given the time it takes to bring people in, we decided to hire in another jurisdiction where we can bring replacements within 3 weeks.
We have never had any Caymanians accountants and lawyers apply historically. As such, we have to rely on foreigners. As a matter of fact, aside from myself, there is only one other professional Caymanian in the firm. This person obtained status 3 years ago. When hired he was a work permit holder.
As the OP I thank you. That’s stats we can sink our teeth in to. – How many people in your workforce?
5
The situation in October 2013 and now is very different. Governmant was right back then to entend people as that was a result of the immigration laws. This situation has been known for sometime and it is up to employers to act and not wait for their employees to leave. Why dont the employers give all of these people notice and not wait for them to hand in their motice on 30 November and start hiring and traiming some of the unemployed to take over these roles in the next two months. If the employer has to suffer two months of overlap and double salary it will be offset by not having to pay the permit fees next year. Pensions are for retirement and not for these expats to be removing large sums of money from the pension portfolios and affecting the overall performance of the fund for all of us. So i believe it was right to make the changes to the pension law that are kicking in on 1 January and no it is not the governments job to step in now it should be the employers in the private sector. By the way the concern that is being raised about the disappearance of all theae expats and the negative effect on the economy will i believe be offset in the long run and for mamy years to come by the current unemployed Caymanians who will now be getting a salary and putting alot of it back in the economy for mamy years as they are not going anywhere.
It would not be commons sense to give the employees notice as the employer would then be liable for severance pay. I could be wrong, but I think severance pay equates to 1 week’s pay for each year of employment. So if, an employee has been with his employer for 6 years then he would be entitled to six weeks pay on being let go.
So what you are saying is the employers should fire all the work permit holders on the off chance they were going to hand their notice in on 30 November?
This entire thing is just a farce and scaremongering by politicians who are paid for by the private sector. What we should have been doing a long time is to collect an expat tax to fund our social and educational programs. Cayman has been giving way more than it receives from these workers for many years now.
All that is happening now is that the expat that is leaving is being recycled by someone else from another jurisdiction who will be paid less and has less cultural value.
‘Less cultural value’, isn’t that what the Nazis thought about the Jews, blacks, disabled or gays?
I think you need an education you racist bigot, especially in economics.
For all their faults, the Nazis, like Trump, had some good ideas.
The expat tax is known as work permit fees
Rubbish, work permit fees are a tax on the employer not the employee. The ex-pat tax I believe Lo-Cal is referring to is Mac’s hair-brained scheme from a few years ago that almost caused a revolution.
We already spend over 20k per pupil. The private schools are half that. What will more money achieve?
Nothing! Same CEO, same SSIO’s, same failing Heads, same teachers and same pupils. But throwing more money at a problem WILL make it better, wont it?
This is the worst comment I have ever seen in my whole life. Smh.
the law should never have been changed! it is not Gov’t money, it’s ours…taken out of our salary. the monthly limit is ridiculous. further if ex-pats want to pull or transfer their money, let them…it’s not ours to begin with. all we are doing is protecting the earnings of the fund managers….why???
I AGREE with you wholeheartedly , regardless of expatriates or Caymanians the money doesn”t belong to Minister of Finance nor Cayman Govt and as far as I’m concerned its ILLEGAL to withhold it from who earned it. Give the people their money and stop the nonsense , if their work permit status is expiring and they have no wishes of remaining in Cayman Islands then they should be given their funds. Its Highway robbery as far as I’m concerned.
Movement of Jah people! Oh-oh-oh, yea-eah
Jah people moving back to their homeland ain’t all bad.
Who is really more upset – the employers or the private pensions funds? Anyone with a pensions account left after all of these withdrawals can look forward to seeing your pensions balances decrease.
And huge increase in fees!
So why couldn’t any Caymanian not simply go to the Ritz, Marriott, Fosters etc. and apply for a job? Why does Mr Suckoo think it takes kicking 2,000 expats off the island to get unemployed Caymanians working again? They can already have any job they want under the current law/system. All they have to do is go there and apply, show up and do an honest days work. No more. Why does government think they need to Sheppard these people into jobs?
Since when did an employer become expected to go and “find” a Caymanian? This whole system is simply breeding an entire generation dependent upon government for everything. Just sit at home and a job will come to you! Seriously folks there are weaknesses in the system but quite frankly if you are unemployed do something about it. Stop whining, get off the couch and get out there. Jobs are there for you already. And above all stop letting these politicians brain wash you into thinking otherwise.
I remember when this whole daft pension scheme was first introduced and at least one large employer sacked every member of staff rather than paying the retrospective contributions. This is almost history repeating itself.
New laws are prospective by default, unless it is conspicuously state that it will be applied retroactively and retroactive application is constitutional. There is no provision for the
retroactive application of the new Pension law, therefore it must be applied prospectively. Hon. Tara Rivers MUST KNOW that.
Good employees, dependable, ethical you say, but leaving you high and dry when you need them most, only thinking of themselves. They could have left during the summer months and you could have sorted out your staff needs by now, they lied to you and you are still willing to go the extra mile for them oh maybe for self/you. Employers who have no interest in Caymanians getting a decent pay cheque. Now they complain that the Government is doing nothing to help them. How many Caymanians they could have helped over the years but choose to go with cheap labour that could be worked for 12 + hour days with no overtime pay. Very selfish on both sides. Now employers do the right thing.
Employes leaving don’t care about their employer or Cayman. It’s all about the $$$.
Its all about the dollars for everyone you nincompoop-if it wasn’t all of us would be sunning our buns and smoking ganja under the tree. That is what work is for, so you can afford to live and hopefully better yourself.
Let me know when you’re going to the tree. I’ll join you.
Nope…we sure don’t!
Do you really think expats workers were uninvited?
Know that we live in a corporatocracy. That means that the corporations decide how the society will operate. Govt’s the world over have given in to this form of governance and the Cayman Islands is no different. So please don’t expect that any decisions they make will benefit you, the general population. As for the people leaving, Corporations know that they are easily replaceable, as they are only workers to them. The bottom line is money and power and not the good of humanity.
Just wait…. and see how the Govt will “fix” this for the businesses.
It was pretty simple, all you had to do was to introduce those rules to new people coming to the island with effect from 1 Jan 2018. Shifting the goal posts half way through isn’t fair and to be quite frank there demonstrates that idiots are running this country if they couldn’t see this was the solution. My hope is one day the FCO take over this place until the average IQ level is raised sufficient to see the obvious.
This was just a government ploy to get as many expats to leave the island before they could reach their 8 year term and apply for residency under the new point system…
If anyone were to challenge it, I don’t see how this change can/will stand up in court… you can’t just change the terms and conditions retrospectively and expect people to fall in line… moreso when people have legitimate arguments that they have been living life (spending habits / voluntary contributions etc.) under the pretense that this money would be available when they left…
Nice try CIG, let’s hope someone calls your bluff and takes this up with you in court
Lol. There you go , court now…
I doubt they are that smart.
If you had been here when the Pension law was enacted in 1999 the original wording said you couldn’t withdraw the funds, they could be transferred to a ‘home country’ fund after leaving, or cashed in if under $5k. I’m not sure when that wording was dropped, or why, but it was. The original intention was that this is a pension fund accessible in retirement.only, just like all pension funds the world over are. The ability to transfer the funds to a qualifying fund still applies, and hasn’t changed. They aren’t changing anything retrospectively. The thing they do need to change is what fund you can transfer to, it makes no sense that Cayman rules are more restrictive than your home country.
I agree there shouldn’t really be any complaints if you can transfer into a qualifying fund back in your own country. Easy if you’re moving to the UK, not so much in the Philippines I bet.
I wish I could transfer but have to leave now. My UK pension provider will not accept a transfer stating they “do not recognise” the provider or the scheme.
Have a look at opening a pension in the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands, they would likely accept the transfer. You can only open one whilst ‘offshore’ so I would suggest you take a look now, once its transferred you should be able to repatriate it to a UK fund. I don’t know for definite that a) they would accept a transfer and b) Cayman would transfer it, just a suggestion!
An island that self destructs. It is quite funny. No hurricane needed here to cause chaos! Hurricane Pension is here to wipe you out.
Absolutely. People would always follow the money. If you are 37 today give or take, in 30 years (when you are 67) there would be nothing left of the Cayman “economic miracle” and your pension money. The “Old boys club” leads this country to destruction by overdevelopment and environmental destruction. Your not so pristine beaches is THE ONLY asset that you have and you can’t even handle beach vendors let alone everything else. Hurricanes Irma and Maria have just reminded everyone what could be left of Cayman in no time, yet it falls on deaf ears.
You elect inept people with no expertise or experience or educated beyond intelligence. The Pension Law is an example of the consequences when “they don’t know what they are doing”.
Bottom line, those that are stressed out over pension changes have not planned better for their futures. The changes in the law, as the right of any country in the world, should have triggered persons saving more and re-evaluating their spending. A majority of persons close to retirement or at actual retirement age don’t have sufficient funds in retirement or other savings and without jobs, due to disabilities or simply the “out with the old in with the new” mentality of some employers, has placed these persons in a position to have to seek assistance from family and government to make ends meet. Pension/Retirement has always been as a supplement to ones other savings/investments and any other means of earnings. No one has disputed that the funds are “Your Money” as some put it, but for a person who is nowhere near retirement age, cleaning out the only savings they have, and be willing to leaving a good paying job, missing 2 years of salary and pension contributions to claim a pension that is under an amount that they could ever retire from work completely and never have to work again makes zero sense.
Not following. Your pension contributions are invested in your name, they can be transferred to a pension fund in your home country, where they will likely be invested in a fund in your name. What happens to Cayman is irrelevant, your money is invested in a fund that is held for your benefit, even if the pension provider went bust your investments should be safe,.It’s your money in a pension account…this isn’t a Government funded pension which is a ponzi scheme the world over.
Oh if only it were simple as you say and all pension providers elsewhere would accept that transfer. But they won’t. So we have to leave if we don’t want to end up only getting the $1,000 a month the CIG says we can have.
Have you read the new law? The $1k/month has been abolished.
I hope that all of the unemployed Caymanians are ready to step up to these positions being left open. Grocery stores, liquor stores, bars, restaurants, hotels etc. All the jobs that anyone would want are right here at your feet.
Now get moving!! Let’s make Cayman great again!
Seriously. I can’t wait to see how this works. Would be super cool to see o% unemployment again. Like the olden days.
I totally agree. With thousands leaving the islands and employers keen to recruit, there is no need for ANY Caymanian to be without a job by Christmas. If they still are unemployed by January with all these real vacancies available, the government has to seriously question if they wanted to work in the first place. Government benefits should be reserved for genuine job seekers, those with disabilities etc. not for the lazy.
Get out there and grab one of these great opportunities.
The only jobs I see in the paper are work permit renewals.
That is why you can’t just sit on your a$$ at home waiting for them to drop in your lap. Go ‘pound the pavement’!!!
I can’t believe that is how you think it works to get a job. Just read the paper… LOL
Prep your cv, get dressed in clean clothes (your ‘Sunday best’ if that’s all ya got) and go knock on some doors. No, it’s not easy or fun but that’s what people in the real world do!!!! I’ve done it many times and I’ve done it here on this island. It takes work to get work and keep work.
Also, save your smoking for after. Nobody wants to smell an ashtray.
Geez!! What do you teach people up in here??
So why aren’t you applying for this and every work permit renewal? I have worked with several organisations here over the years and they’re all longing for qualified Caymanians to apply. But they don’t so the work permit gets renewed.
If you are good for the job they have to take you. If they don’t you have ways to challenge it. But all you and others like you seem to do is sit on your backside doing nothing and complaining alot.
Hah-hah-hah…You are being sarcastic, I got it.
9.03 you are right, now we will see for sure if those people are able and willing to work, and prepared to learn the skills necessary to do it, and not on $200,000 a year.
Study economics one of the first things they teach you is that 0% unemployment doesn’t exist, (unless you plan on leading Cayman down the path of socialism toward communism) , there will always be people who are affected by one of the 3 main types of unemployment those being Frictional, Cyclical and Structural unemployment. the best that can be achieved is for our economy to reach full employment which is when unemployment reaches the natural employment rate the natural employment rate is always above 0 because there are always flows in and out of employment, persons leaving work to go to school or persons entering the labor force looking for employment, there are are always persons who will voluntarily give up their jobs because they feel like they can find better work or better pay all of which inflates the unemployment rate. If unemployment is an issue for you the best way to handle it is to completely remove cyclical employment which is the negative and unnecessary of the three types that general indicates the end of a economic peak and the beginning of an economic downturn.
Another point I’d like to make if someone is not actively looking for a job they are not considered unemployed, retirees, stay at home parents, the disabled etc If Caymanians are looking for work then they are unemployed, if they are sitting at home complaining about not being able to find work yes they are without jobs but they will not be recorded in the official unemployment numbers because they are not actively seeking work. Just thought I’d add that in because some people don’t realize there is a slightly more in depth definition of unemployment.
Another thing the unemployment rate is at a perfectly normal level at around 4.2% there isn’t really much more we could do to bring down the numbers due to the natural flow of employment what Cayman needs to focus on is strengthening and diversifying the local economy and employment opportunities for future generations.
0% unemployment sounds great but the fact of the matter is both structural and frictional unemployment are permanent,natural, healthy parts of any growing economy.
First point is that economic theory reckons normal unemployment through friction etc is some where between 0 and 2%. Second point is that the ESO statistics on unemployment are not based on hard facts but on door step surveys of a sample extrapolated to the who population. Excuse me sir, are you unemployed but actively seeing work? What do you expect the answer to be? The real unemployment figures are frankly anyone’s guess.
Yes, let’s see if all this outrage about that stupid youtube video of that chick who worked here for 1 year is actually something. Everyone is freaking out about it, crosstalk speaking their usual nonsense, but lets see is Caymanians step up and go apply at these places. And agreeing with the other commenter, you need to hit the pavement to get a job. No job is going to come to you by the sounds of your ineptness.
They (all the anti-expat commenters) were so hard on her like it was her fault for coming here to work!
She worked F&B, she probably worked 6&7 days a week both night and day shifts. She didn’t need an Audi or a BMW so no car insurance needed and I’ll bet she lived with several roommates.
Caymanians don’t do this. When will they understand that this is what 20 somethings do for a while to avoid responsibilities for a while!!!! They’re not dropping babies at 20
Hellooooooo??????
Two things are at issue.
1/ Actually going out and looking for a employment.
2/ Performing at the minimum acceptable level to keep the job.
Work permit holders should not have to pay pension. End of story. (I am a Caymanian)
Fine – as long as you accept that even if they marry a Caymanian they should not be allowed to stay past retirement, and as long as you are happy to make it less expensive to employ foreign labour over Caymanians…
So what will happen when they eventually become Caymanian and don’t have a properly funded pension? More social service handouts!
A. The term limit is 7 years. You still have another 50+ years if you become Caymanian to establish a pension.
B. I am Caymanian and watched my pension drop from $30+k to less that $18K due to bad investments that the pension companies decided to use MY money for.
No, the term limit is 9 years and Alden refuses to enforce it anyway.
What he means is: “This is what happens when you implement ghetto entitlement politics”.
Those self aggrandizing politicians purporting to help the ones in “need”, always end up screwing over the every people they claims to be helping with their “selfless heroic sanctimonious assertions”. Makes me sick. Look at Venezuela, that crisis and national starvation was founded on “selfless for-the-people politicians” helping those in need and making the “greedy” pay their fair share! Look at them now… Look at the Bahamas, its become a cesspool of corruption and violence ridden shithole.
Here is an idea, DON’T EVER VOTE FOR PEOPLE WHO PROMISE YOU SHIT AND ENTITLEMENTS BECAUSE OF A CERTAIN CLASS THEY IDENTIFY YOU WITH.
THOSE POLITICIANS DESTROY COUNTRIES! AND THIS ONE IS NO EXCEPTION ITS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME.
See Jamaica, Venezuela, Eastern Europe, Turkey, Most of Africa, The Bahamas, Mexico, Brazil, and many urban US Cities are literally bankrupt and void of opportunity because guess what, businesses and paying people that want a better life leave!
Stop constantly looking out for what you can GET from your neighbor and just once TRY to think about the whole country, and don’t vote for vote pandering self aggrandizing politicians.
CIG Revenue of 1.2bn every 18 months with no direct income tax… This to support what 25,000 locals and yet somehow still mess it up?
Incompetence or Corruption… you be the judge
spot on
I hope that Government passes a law that bans anyone (that’s leaving just to collect early pension) from obtaining a work permit, Cayman status, or Permanent Residency.
One way tickets for sure!
Um, why? It is their money. It is a free economy, not indentured servitude.
Pension is for retirement.
Or to buy land if you adopt the vote buying discriminatory laws that violate human rights obligations.
Know the difference between those that stay to help feed the soil and those that just come to grab the fruit.
Grab the fruit every time. No interest in feeding the soil.
I want to wait as long as possible before I feed the soil.
Why?
Agree with you but guess what, as soon as they collect their pension they will arrive back to their old job. It will be waiting for them, someone will get a temporary job till they return.
A temporary job of 2 years? No that temp will replace them while they wait out their two years to get their money. Their loss!
So ban people who don’t wish to have their cash stolen? Punish them for CIG’s stupidity and not thinking things through? Wow, classic Cayman reaction.
It’s not YOUR cash.
Whose is it then you nutter? It is certainly not CIG’s
Stupidity, greed and total incompetence by this and previous administrations, has effectively caused the theft of pensions from employees, most of whom were lured to Cayman with the promise that they would be able to extract them when they left the Islands.
The law should only apply to persons who commence employment after January the 1st 2018, the only recourse these poor people now have is to leave…just wait until the Civil Servants are told that their pensions will not be paid in full because of crass incompetence by their leaders, the response will be far more vitriolic!
Alva: “Alden ah told ya so why unna newa heed mah warnin? See wa ya gon n done now ya eedjats. Goose done cook.”
Thankfully Mr Suckoo does not speak in this manner.
CIG: Thats what you get,when you meddle with pensions , other peoples money. It is not yours to restrict & inhibit access to, for those that have contributed into it for years . Don’t expect many of the job vacancies to now be available for your unemployed brethren, those jobs have gone.
We need to drop the pension altogether. It is a compete failure and us Caymanians need that extra 5% to survive right now. Costs going up and we can’t afford everyday items.
If you can’t afford everyday items now, how are you going to afford them when you are retired without any income?
Agreed. Unfortunately, the pensions here are not going to provide low income workers with much upon retirement. If anything, people should be putting away more than 5% (probably into something other than a Cayman pension scheme though!)
Its 10% (5%+5%) but you’re right. All of the pension planers will tell you up front its not going to be enough. Really, from a state perspective, pension is just to reduce the future welfare burden not eliminate it.
I realise that, my point is the individual should be putting away more than 5%.
10% is still not enough, some kind of % increase would be beneficial to everyone, if this could be built into wage increases (rare I know) it should not affect the individual or the employer too much. 3% salary increase, 1.5% pension increase until the 10% mark is reached.
Have you been to a supermarket or paid CUC or FLOW lately? We need every penny we can get. I am a lawyer and eat frozen chicken breasts for dinner. And I’m Caymanian to boot – no papers. This place is obscenely, grotesquely expensive to live any sort of respectable, rewarding life.
Yes to all of the above and I agree the cost of living is high.
In saying that, I am not a lawyer, and earn considerably less than a lawyer. I have kids, a wife (also not a lawyer), a mortgage, 2 cars, and I eat organic as much as possible.
Not sure what kind of lawyer you are, but if you can’t afford to live a decent life in Cayman as a lawyer, something is seriously wrong.
On a side note, you really should cook the chicken before you eat it 😉
Your family has two incomes by the sounds of it. I am on my own. I pay rent, power, phone, internet, and a car loan, on one five figure salary. That’s before I eat anything or do anything other than remain physically stationary. Something is seriously wrong: the cost of living. And thanks for the tip – I’m a great cook.
7;27 AM, You are not too bright, saying to drop the pension altogether, what will happen when you are old and can’t work. You will run to social services, because you don’t have any pride and wants other to do for you.
Government needs to step as this is right before high season and we cannot afford to lose help in the service industry
Govt is blind if they didn’t believe this was coming. It’s going to have a wave of impact all over and the politicians are to blame. On the positive side Cayman should use this opportunity and govt should force the local population to fill these vacancies. Plenty of jobs gonna be available. No more crying about unemployment. Shouldn’t hear another word about it. You wanted work. Love talking about expats taking your jobs.Well here you go, it’s your time to shine and get your work on. All those capable young men that sit across from Kurt’s corner all day, they look fit enough to do landscaping all day or some kind of manual labor. Riiiigggghhhhhtttttttt.
Big up Tara for her amendment a true visonary and patriotic Caymanian.As for all those crying about losses.I have one question for you exactly who voted for you to put you there so do right by your own people.
Hurrah and hail to those who made this possible which we know it wasnt Alden and his beloved Mckeewa who if left alone would see this place overun by everybody and their economic refugeees. Better now before real touble starts here.Cayman will no doubt recover like it has from this temporary lost. Something had to done to stem this terrible tide here. just sad more could not be done for Caymanians to regain control of their own future.
One of the MLAs was on the radio this week and clarified that the regulation was asked for by the Pension providers since they said the constant redemptions were impacting their returns and ability to manage money.
For those familiar with Ponzi schemes, this would be their wet dream (i.e. rules that don’t allow people to redeem).
Also seeing as Pension fund managers make money on a percentage of AUM (Assets under management), this new law also solidifies their future earnings by limiting the amount of withdrawals even if performing badly.
exactly!
these are work permit holders. they were given work permits because there was no local to do the job. fact.
they can only be replaced by other work permits…..
typical cayman nonsense….everybody will suffer because of this
CNS this is just a lot of hype in my opinion. I remember the TLEP’s. We did nothing then and they are still here years later and qualify by default for Permanent Residency.
Cayman for these people is the land of milk and honey and now they are taking our milk and honey and our money and going home. I say good riddance. Tell me which country in the world you can go to work for a few years and be guaranteed a lump sum 10% nest egg when you leave and the people of the country have to wait until they are 65 years old and then only get $1000 a month of their hard earned money. what makes me angry is that these people can go away for two years and come back and start over raping us again.Enough is enough! If they leave we need to pass a law that says they can’t come back for at least 10 years. What is wrong with tough laws that protect our people?
There are millions of these people ready to come to take the place of these. Those coming should only be given two year non-renewable permits particularly if in the seasonal tourism business. If we do this, this type of issue should not happen again.
As far as rental properties being available, this is absolutely ridiculous, ask any realtor and they will tell you that properties for rent are far and few between. We need to stop looking at the negative and look at the positive. There are a lot of businesses that will benefit from this and the government will get a shot in the arm for its other pillar of the economy “immigration fees” right at the end of the year when they need it most.
Do we really believe that people are going to stop shopping at Fosters because 24 out of the hundreds of people they have go home. I am sure they turn over more than that in any given year. Does Robbie Hamaty really believe that if he loses a couple of his “so called’ key staff ( what do they do that is so critical by the way) that people are going to stop buying liquor from his store. Does anyone believe that the Ritz Carlton and Marriott like in any other year have not geared up and hired a bunch of expats for the upcoming season? What’s a few more? they are almost guaranteed by Immigration to get hired.
I am no supporter of the PPM but I am happy that they are sticking by their guns on this one and if Alden backs down this time like he did with the TLEP’s, dog eat his supper.
It’s time for Caymanians to stand up, do what’s right and don’t let greed and a few companies supported by the cartel called the Chamber of Commerce continue to tell us what to do particularly since the recent statistics continue to show unemployment in the Cayman islands at an all time high and growing. This while we see work permits growing in leaps and bounds every year and the about of new Caymanians now expected to rise sharply because of the Permanent Residency fiasco. Remember folks, in is not just the 1500, it is the 1500 plus their families. Remember 2003, when we thought it was 3000 and it turned out to be many times that…Remember why before that social services was just a tiny department in government set aside for the indigent and poor. No we have imported these people from poor countries and by extension their families, given them PR and status and they get to stay home and live off us the taxpayers. It would be interesting to know just how many “paper Caymanians” are on the NAU list.
Come on Cayman, where is your pride? Stand up and be counted!
Let these people go and say “Good Riddance!” Prove to them that we will survive!
#keyboardwarrior
#bellendwarrior
It is the work permit holders money. They earned it. Caymanians should be entitled to what ever they earn and put into the retirement scheme. The W/P holders are here to work, make money, and be able to move home with their money to do with as they wish. This is called freedom of choice. To keep from some one that which is contracted is called fraud.
It is called pension not a short term savings account…Look up the meaning of pension in your dictionary before you make such foolish comments.
No, you can move home with your pension and put your pension in a pension plan at home. No one is taking their money. We’re just making sure they don’t become a drain on the state. Any state. (Well, less of ad rain, as 10% pension will still run out without additional personal investments. But the state can only big brother you so far.)
but you forget the little inclusion in the law that states that parliament can at any time stop the withdrawls to overseas pensions, meaning all the pensions will be stuck in Cayman until you retire.
The risk for the pension still being there is huge, the way the CI government is, it is almost a certainty that in the next 30 years they will have past a law that only people in Cayman can take that money.
Frankly few expats trust the government, with very good reasons
you are spot on. i have heard from lawyers that unless you leave before dec 2017 and request either a refund or transfer of funds that you might as well kiss goodbye to your money. CIG will eventually find a loophole for that money to stay in Cayman.
I am an expat and have no problems with leaving my money until 65 if that is the same law that applies to Caymanians. However, for fairness sake, shouldn’t they also allow us expats to borrow money from our pensions?
if you think that money will still be there in a few years let alone at retirement you are massively mistaken. heed the advice from other financial lawyers and get your money out. its quite scary to think there are people who think their cash is safe from CIG.
they change the rules / laws all the time and this is just the first step in an attempt to take expats funds to cover the civil service deficit in their own pension fund.
Even if it isn’t taken in haircuts the egregious management fees compounded over time will see it worthless in 30 years
Make up your mind. You don’t want them here ‘raping’ you then you get all angry when they want to leave.
How is someone taking their pension deductions and employer contributions taking your milk and honey or raping the country? Seriously. i would be fascinated to know how you justify that one.
Do not worry. If Caymanians cannot fill the positions permits can be given. It will only take 3 months.
seriously, you think immigration work that fast and with that many applications all at once ?…….. think again. wait for the back log complaints come early 2018.
The problem with living on such a beautiful island is there’s so much sand for politicians to stick their heads in.
Government is on a self-destructive path. I know of Caymanians who have given notice at my workplace and are migrating away from here for the same reason…to get their pension money now.
I’m 20 years resident and bound by Caymanian spouse, family, and mortgage. Part of me wishes I had made different decisions so I wasn’t locked in here.
I want to believe that someone with bring a lawsuit demanding grandfathered individuals who are here prior to the new law going into effect would get government to adjust their plans as I don’t have the resources to sue them myself.
A Caymanian shouldn’t be able to get their pension until retirement age not simply by moving away. Not the way I read the law at least.
Why is Alva Suckoo not the Premier of this country? Why are we stuck with a do nothing selfish egotistic cold uncaring and idiotic Governement ? led by two egomaniacs McLaughlin and Bush better known as Mutt And Jeff ? This place is becoming a rahtiid joke trust me on this. When I see how expats bash us on this very site and ridicule Caymanians with no fear of persecution I know we have lost it long ago and these so called leaders are puppets! Alden needs to resign
Mr Suckoo is full of hot air — you really think that Caymanians are going to be jumping at the chance to work in minimum wage jobs – which are predominantly held by persons from lesser-developed/third-world/crime-ridden countries??? Laugh, laugh, laugh – as long as I have my politicians ear I will stick with government supporting me! Why would I want to work iif I can do nothing and get rewarded for it.
Thank you current administration for your continued support and expansion of social services (ie civil service minimum pension of CI $650, new employees for nau, increase in monthly payouts).
And who says Cayman is not a welfare state.
so are you saying it is only the lower level employees that are leaving? If so, let , them go! There are millions of people in the Phillipines, India and Jamaica that replace these and at least they won’t be eligible for PR and by extension NAU assistance.
With all the foreigners, like me, leaving the island – who is going to do the jobs that Caymanians do not want to do? Thank you Cayman Islands Government for treating me better than your own citizens – I get to cash out on my pension – it was like having a savings account with 100% interest – because my employer matched my contributions.
Grateful for working here and leaving with much money.
Good plan for immigration control
Good bye and good riddance. A truer indication of transient guest workers’ motives could not have more timely and revealing; despite, the brouhaha that is often touted by those who would have us believe, they are the best thing since sliced bread or even more absurd not replaceable. They have got what they wanted. I am certain there are 20K standing by to take these 2K “vacancies”, as there are no parties that will happen n the Caymanian’s quarters at the prospect of filling some of these jobs. What a sad thing to admit.
If Caymanians have to wait until they are Sixty to get their pensions, then Expats should have to wait until Sixty too, end of story.
That’s perfectly fine if expats can also borrow from their pension.i believe these are only allowed for Caymanians. Both have contributed and both can’t get money in lumpsum so why is the law to borrow from pension only for them?
Instead of bitching, why don’t you make sure you and yours are qualified, ready willing and able to do these jobs. Try something different, like turning up on time, actually doing some work, not have 3 x1 hour food breaks, leave your mobile at home..you understand?
If government had been lawfully regulating pension plans and the fat cat pension plan administrators were making money for employees, instead of themselves, then employees would have confidence that their pension would grow, not deplete as is too often the case and then employees would not have the fear of ending up with no pension funds. Another example of problems caused by poor, poor governance!