CS cuts will create burden
Posted on Thu, 08/09/2012 - 13:07 in Politics
(CNS): Cutting too many jobs from the civil service would create further burdens for government coffers because the private sector would not be willing to give up enough work permits, the premier has said. As the debate rages in the community about 'big government', McKeeva Bush pointed out that it would still be the public sector that would have to foot the bill for the growth in unemployment with welfare costs if significant jobs were lost. But he pointed out that the cuts would also impact spending in the economy. Bush berated those who are calling for over 500 jobs to go from the civil service, stating that it would do untold harm to many families.
Speaking at a public meeting about the budget at the Mary Miller Hall Wednesday night, the premier denied that his refusal to cut CS jobs or other major spending areas of government, such as scholarships, the Nation Building Fund or veterans' payments, was vote buying but said it was about helping Caymanians.
Bush said that as a result of the pressure from the UK, Cabinet had already slashed public sector spending this year but he was not prepared to allow any job cuts. In any event , the premier continued to insist that it was not his job to cut the headcount in government as the elected members of Cabinet did not have the power. Once again, he pointed the finger at the governor as the one responsible for what many considered the inflated size of the public sector.
Duncan Taylor has stated on several occasions that while the supervision of the civil service is his responsibility through the Deputy Governor's Office, jobs cannot be cut unless the elected arm of the administration indicates its policy priorities and areas where it would be willing to reduce services. The governor still requires policy direction so the civil service management can work out where job losses should be made.
The premier made it abundantly clear, however, that he would not approve any major job losses in the public sector as it would be too damaging to too many people. He said that there were already concerns about the impact the cuts that have been made to benefits would have.
Bush said that in this budget the government had reduced spending considerably as a result of slashing the marketing budget for tourism, a fall in spending on consumables, a decrease in equity investments, the proposed sale of the helicopter, the reduction of the police housing allowance down to pre-Ivan levels and the removal of free health benefits for civil servant's dependents, whose cover will now need to be paid for. He described a policy sea-change that would require all new recruits to the public sector to contribute to their own pensions and their health cover in future.
Acknowledging the demands for still more cuts in operational expenses, he said there was a need for greater recognition by the private sector of the civil service's role in the Cayman Islands' well-being.
Bush said it was impossible to make the cuts to satisfy everyone and people had to be aware that if public sector workers lost their jobs and were unable to find employment in the private sector they would still be a burden on the public purse as government had an obligation to take care of its own people. “These are humans who have been given a contract,” he said, also pointing out the loss of spending power in the economy.
With pressure from the private sector mounting to acknowledge that the problem with Cayman's budget was not revenue raising but spending, Bush pointed to other costs in government that he did not support but was forced to find the money for.
He complained about the costs associated with the implementation of the bill of rights and legal aid spending. He said government had to find $1.8 million per year so that the person “who killed the baby in a car” could have the best QC, and while prisoners had access to better healthcare than civil servants he was not prepared to make cuts on hard working Caymanians.
Bush berated those who said he should cut things such as the money to veterans, the Nation Building Fund or scholarships. He said there was too much hypocrisy as only certain people in the past had got scholarships to go to high school or college and too many Caymanians were left out.
Bush also defended the money going to churches as he said it was to help them build hurricane shelters, which was cheaper than government funding those projects, and added that the Nation Building Fund was about the future of young people and keeping them out of jail.
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Overpaid underworked the best
Overpaid underworked the best deal on the island, free health and pension, no wonder I cannot get a good smart Caymanian to work for me, they are all living la vida loca in the CS, you wouldvbe stupid not to.
To The lone haranguer (not
To The lone haranguer (not verified) on Mon, 08/13/2012 - 06:45. FYI Civil servants contribute 5% of their salary towards their pension.Not that it matters to you ,you'll just keep repeating the same old misguided story.
Obviously you dont know many
Obviously you dont know many of the good hard-working, blue-collar, just scraping-by, civil servants!
Why are we always talking
Why are we always talking about cutting jobs? What ever happened to cutting other expenses?
Has the Government followed up with the inappropriate and over-use of the gasoline cards issued to Civil Services and have better policies been put in place?
Perhaps it can be re-evaluated who as a CS really needs a blackberry/cell phone paid for by the Government.
Sames goes with the use of Government vehicles.
Perhaps we need to keep better track of abuse of sick-leave and implement better messures.
Maybe the police dept could receive 2012 worthy equipment which includes installing permanent speed traps on certain stretches. If they would enforce the traffic law, police dept could probably fund itself with the fines it collects.
Why don't we stop paying senior civil servants which have been "retired" for political reasons.
Why don't we collect the outstanding duty owed by many (Michael Ryan first in line). If they can't pay, take posession of their property and sell it.
Maybe we could stop giving scholarships to students who can not maintain a certain GDP (is anyone acutally following up on this?)
Maybe we need to stop funding athletes who are frequently plagued by injuries and can not perform and deliver.
I am sorry, but times are rough for everyone. So politicians, make a choice, cut back on spending or put people out of a job. Which one will it be?
Immigration should be cut
Immigration should be cut drastically. Nobody on the front knows what they are doing. I really symphatize with Ms. Linda because all those people at the front do not have a clue of what they are doing and they are very spiteful and do not attend to the everlasting crowd that sits for 4 hours before getting any attention. Many times the place is packed and the officers sitting in their booth does nothing to assist. They wait until this crazy computer makes an announcenment to say which number is called. It will really be interested to see how this is monitored because you sit there for hours before it calls A51,then A52 and all they do is treat all the A's every 45 minutes and forget about the B's, C's and everybody that sits there for more than 2 hours. Then all the lazy officers sits there looking on their computer screen and do absolutely nothing to assist the public. This is NO SERVICE. Please put 3 hard working Immigration Officer out front and get rid of the others.
First persons to cut are the
First persons to cut are the expat contracted civil servants!!! This place is a joke no one wants to make a hard decision.
It is simple, here's how to
It is simple, here's how to do it without cutting the Civil Service. Take the revenue figure collected last year, subtract all your fixed expenses such as loans and capital project payments required for the 2012-2013 period. From what is left, decide what percentage will be used for salaries. From there decide on the required reduction to the top earners of the Civil Service.
Next cut the MLA pension payments and readjust their pension calculations to bring it in line with the other Civil Service. They have it unfairly loaded to get the maximum for just a few years of service.
Then look at Social Services. If you not old, incapacitated, or suffering from a disability or mental ailment, wean them off. There are many jobs available, but many of them just don't want to put in an honest days work.
Next is the sponsored overseas medicals. We can only afford what is available here and that is it. It is time that people take responsibility for their lives. They drink and smoke and when they get sick, or get in accidents, they believe that it is the government's responibility to take up the slack.
Legal Aid should only be dished out for offences that carry life imprisonment. Lawyers in my opinion, have devised a system that ensures their livelihood at the expense of victims and the crown.
It's not hard. It is simple and easy to bring the budget back into control.
If the private sector is not
If the private sector is not providing jobs for the many Caymanians unemployed as we speak, how then can they provide for 200, 300, 400 additional layoffs? People, cutting the Civil Service in large amounts at one time, is not a wise idea.
Cuts must be made in the
Cuts must be made in the civil service budget. Government is killing the country. As long as government continues to overspend beyond it's means, the cost of living, and doing business here will go up. Business and expats will be leaving.
Watching the last 2
Watching the last 2 governments is a bit like watching a teenager with their first credit card.
Times 500,000,000.00
Two examples of why CIG cuts
Two examples of why CIG cuts needed: I go to the Immigration website, and it has not been updated since July 12, 2012(at least). I click on Customers Survey link- and it takes me to "
Thank You for your participation in the Department of Immigration Customer Service Survey 2012
" screen- keep in mind I have not done anything yet.
Then I go to the DMV site- click on transfer of ownership form, and get this:
Error:
Internal error (WWC-00006)
Not a valid URL. (WWC-50014)
No data found (WWS-32101)
ORA-1403: ORA-01403: no data found (WWC-36000)
Someone is getting a paycheck for maintaining these sites. Now I have to physically go to both places, stay in long lines, take time of "real" person, instead of just getting it all done online.
ORA-1403: ORA-01403: no data
ORA-1403: ORA-01403: no data found (WWC-36000)
Silly you. You just neet to understand the Java programming lanuage and all will be good. Get with the program.
"real" person,,,,in
"real" person,,,,in Immigration????
Yes! Let's cut the civil
Yes! Let's cut the civil service! Begin with the garbage men. Let the trash pile up for more than one week and see who starts to complain.
Then i suggest cutting the police officers. The criminals are running things anyway so it won't really make a big difference. Less is best.
Then let's move on to the social workers. Let's cut their team down. We can surely deal with the the random needy person some who have issues that any jack can deal with. Anybody can deal with mentally ill people who often threaten violence its just a job for crying out loud.
Nurses and doctors should be next. Medical care isn't really important and there are too many of them anyway. People won't mind waiting an extra 48 hours to see one. It's fine.
Let's not forget the teachers. We can all send our children to.....PRIVATE SCHOOL!!!! We can all afford to pay that 800-1750 a month school fee! We are rich remember.
Geeze.... Immigration! Ah, they are severely overstaffed and anybody can do their job. So let's get rid of them.
Cayman Airways....let's get rid of it. In the event of a natural disaster I'm 100% certain that delta, american, us air will all be happy to come fly us out. I mean all the other airlines picked up their nationalities when Ivan hit so maybe they'll adopt us.
Firemen should go too. Fires don't happen too often and if one does we can all chip in with buckets of water. TEAMWORK!
To be continued........
OK. Sounds good to me. Start
OK. Sounds good to me. Start today.
Please understand that the
Please understand that the amount of work required by the civil service can be done by a substantially less amount of employees. That is why the civil service needs to be cut...
Ok Let's cut the civil
Ok Let's cut the civil service. Would anyone object if the cutting started with the expat workers in the civil service? No renewal of their contracts. Does anyone know how many of the civil service consists of expats. I want to know.
Yeah, go on, try it. Get rid
Yeah, go on, try it. Get rid of the Englishmen maintaining your Immigration Computer system. Advertise their jobs locally (which is done at every re-newal). sit back and watch the entire system disintegrate.
I agree cut the civil service
I agree cut the civil service by 100% of all expat non professional staff (replace them with Caymanians) then further reduce the professional expat staff by 1/2 and increase their salary by 25% and government would still be saving a lot all around.
By all means do it, but ask
By all means do it, but ask yourself first why they are there in the first place? and why didn't the government apply the rollover policy to expat civil servants - could it possibly have anything to do with the fact that you couldn't function without them and they are a big part (but not all) of the reason that it functions at all, albeit in the most unproductive way. Do it, I dare you!
Government cannot cut the
Government cannot cut the expat civil servants because of political postering. The chickens now come home to roost... when the govenment was giving away the mass status grants of 2004 and getting rid of the rollover policy they thought that it was such a wonderful idea. Now they have come to regret those decisions but cannot do anything about it. With the stoke of a pen the government signed away their soverign and control of the country to expats. Now tek that. Can't wait for human rights that Mr. McLaughlin gave us, that's when the fun will start. I see absolutely no good on the horizions for the natives of this country. Without jobs our young people have very little future than becoming unemployed, criminals without any prospects because of foolish policies of the government.
Actually, this could be a
Actually, this could be a good solution.
If the government became completely disfuctional (not a bad thing), then the private sector could simply ignore it.
Garbage collection? Hire a private one who can dump for a "fee" somewhere in ???.
Immigration? Lie to them and carry on.
Hotel room tax? Ignore it. It will never be audited.
Car license? Get one printed off-shore. No one will notice or care about the forgery.
Etc. etc. etc.
How many Caymanian civil
How many Caymanian civil servants does it take to change a light bulb?
Sorry, the answer is cruel but true.
This is exactly why we will
This is exactly why we will not get our budget under control. You can't keep throwing money at the problem, willing it to go away. After the money is spent, the problem is still there. It was only temporarily subdued from the cash hiiigghh. We have a bloated civil service with so many unnecessary, inefficient positions. Get rid of some! Otherwise we'll have serious economic issue in the long run. Our country's political risk and in turn our investment risk, has already increased in light of recent tax (I mean "fee") discussions.
For those who are concerned about unemployment afterwards: Sometimes you don't always get the job that you want. Sometimes a company offers it to someone else and sometimes yes, you have to settle for a position that isn't ideal. It is what it is. This is life! The work permit review board is here for a reason. To ensure that qualified Caymanians are not passed over. As a Caymanian, I have never had a problem finding a job here. Yes, I've applied to some and either not been interviewed or received an offer. But you know what? I've had the exact same experience when I lived in Canada. I applied for jobs and didn't get them. Yet despite the disappointment felt at the time, I always found something else in the end. I kept trying; I adjusted my expectations, I analyzed my interview skills, I wrote a stronger cover letter, I networked. I made it happen. I didn't sulk and I didn't blame everyone else. I am responsible for myself.
Sometimes you have to start from the bottom and work your way up. Not everyone can jump to the top. I can't and that's okay. I'm content with a steady climb.
Well written, I hope you will
Well written, I hope you will echo the same sentiments six months from now because I wil guarantee you that in six months from now you will be out of job in Cayman with no prospects at all (but then again you can always move back to Canada because their economy is one of the few first world economy that is doing extremely well). You really need to read what is happening in the financial and tourism industry the world over.
To the Anon who commented
To the Anon who commented first on my initial post: Whilst I appreciate sharing of opinions, I'm not quite sure why you think I will be out of a job in 6 months time. That's quite the statement to make; without any justification or solidity. It doesn't tie in with the main point of my post either. Yes, the world economy has taken a blow but that's not to say that in 6 months time everyone will be without employment. I think that perhaps you are the one who needs to broaden your thinking before making such restricted statements. Globalization is a beautiful thing.
Amen brother or sister!! That
Amen brother or sister!! That is the job hunting experience the world over, except here, where some (not all) unsuccessful Caymanians who are turned down for jobs - always blame it on the expat myth. If they had half your gumption they would all have jobs!!
At least putting these civil
At least putting these civil servants on welfare would be honest. Our current civil service is a more expensive welfare system giving jobs for votes.
Why does the Goventment not
Why does the Goventment not employ a program that encourages Civil Servants (an un justified term concidering there compensation packages) to take up employment in the private sector all of the staff should be in the private sector job pool. this can be done by bringing back the employee compensation to a level where the term Civil Servant actualy means somthing, doing a service to and for your country. Further to only be allowed to work for a certiain ammount of years in the governments employee and you get rolled out.
The whole GASBOY issue needs
The whole GASBOY issue needs to be locked down quickley and properly as well. We don't even know how much money is going out the door there.
Ineptocracy
Ineptocracy -(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy)- A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
Perfect. Add the word
Perfect. Add the word "honorable" and it is now up to date.
I need a break from all of
I need a break from all of this tax-the-expats, dont-tax-the-expats, tax-the-expats-again-through-work permit-fees, nonsense.
So I am heading off to North Korea for awhile. I saw this photo of Ri Sol-Ju with her Christian Dior handbag, and WOW she is so very beautiful. I am 'gambling' that she has a younger sister that looks as pure and delicate as she is, and I am confident that I have a good chance of seducing her...
If she dont have a sister then Kim Jong-Un needs to understand that he has to scoot-on-over...
So good luck Cayman if you are hoping that Mac will lose any votes by reducing the civil service.
I stand more chance of seducing this precious North Korean Angel...
So here I come Ri Ri Dear...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2185377/North-Koreas-lady-Ri-Sol-Ju-1-000-Christian-Dior-bag.html?ITO=1490
Bush talks like its all or
Bush talks like its all or nothing. Either lay off 500-700 people or leave the CS exactly as it is.
Why not impose a ban on running your own business or being a paid officer of another company etc while working for the CS. Those who are doing so can then choose whether to keep their CS job or do the other one full time. That'll get rid of some.
Impose a hiring freeze (and actually follow it).
Then terminate those employees who haven't been to work for 6 months (yes there are plenty. Some are earning $150k+ and haven't turned up for work for over 4 years).
Then offer optional retirement at 25 years service. They have big enough pension pots to survive.
Then take the most grossly unproductive staff- those who call in sick every month, don't pull their weight etc. They are easy to identify. Put them on close supervision and let them know that the most unproductive 50% of them will be gone in 6 months. That gives them a chance.
Call in management consultants to try and sort out the inefficient mess so something actually gets done, and cut out the nepotism and cronyism.
Then cut the perks back to a reasonable level- no gas cards, no COLA, no medical for the entire family. Bring it more into line with the private sector.
The result would be massive savings, no loss of productivity (probably a gain) and no need to throw 500-700 people onto the street.
While I agree with much of
While I agree with much of what you say, I think that reducing medical benefits for individuals and families to get "into line with the private sector" is the wrong way to go. We should bring the private sector coverage up to a higher standard.
By following the flawed US system, we have the same expensive yet inefficient care.
Dude, who are you kidding!!
Dude, who are you kidding!! that is just too sensible and easy, we need solutions that make life as hard as possible for us and have only a small chance of achieiving anything positive!
.We are all born the
.We are all born the same
Then we seperate
Then the world falls apart
And blame turns to hate.......
Dear Police officer, Sorry to hear about your hardship. If your wife really wants to work in the field of her education, she should keep trying. Do you know that 65% of college graduates in US can't find a job and get 'burger flipping" jobs while still looking for a professional job? Perseverance pays. One, who is looking, will always find. On the other hand, your bitterness toward more successful people is not justified. Noone gets anything on a silver plate with a gold rim. They work hard for it. Once, I lived on $20 a week (after all bills were paid) with two children, and my second job was cleaning offices (I was college educated already). We were eating lots of 98cents pizzas those days. Never swallowed my pride though- never asked anyone for help. I am a certified professional now, helping kids to get through college (they both work part time by the way and got student loans). While I am paid well here, 1/2 of the year I work 60-70 hours a week. If you do the math, hourly pay is not that big. I donate weekly too many charities here, volunteer for Hospice, clean beaches and recycle. Do not hate me. We are one. There is a good heart touching song by Ronan Hardiman "That place in your heart”. You tube it. ...........
BUSH, Rolston, CG, Mario, and
BUSH, Rolston, CG, Mario, and Kerry are the only ones talking about cutting 500 CS jobs as the ONLY remedy to balancing the budget. The wider, sensible community is talking about cutting government spending overall, which includes cuts to:
Official Travel
Social Service vote-buying fund
Salaries to MLAs
Boatswain's Beach subsidy (by selling some of it)
Cayman Airways subsidy (by selling some of it)
Premier's household items (cook, utilities, security), by rights, shouldn't the Leader of Opp be entitled to the same? (not saying he should take it)
Gasboy Allowances
Government vehicle usage after hours and weekends
Health Insurance premiums paid by Govt
Cayman, we do not have a revenue generating problem, WE HAVE A POLITICAL SPENDING PROBLEM!!!
yes yes yes yes yes THANK
yes yes yes yes yes THANK YOU!
THE NATURE has its way of
THE NATURE has its way of taking care of things like that-dissipate accumulated negtive energy. Just wait and see. THE IVAN did not teach this island anything.
I am FINALLY eligible to vote
I am FINALLY eligible to vote in 2013. My vote will only go to that person who will stand up against bloated ineffecient governent and will promise under no uncertain terms a calculated, fiscally responsible, trimming of the fat to sustainable levels. To my fellow Caymanians if you are in Civil Service the opportunity of a lifetime is now - it is time to step up your game. Those who don't cut the mustard will be the first to go. Perform your duties to the best of your ability, become efficient and take control of your own destiny by making yourself an important and valuable asset to the Civil Service otherwise I'm voting you out.
The word 'mustard' has been
The word 'mustard' has been misused, its a condiment like ketchup and relish.
Cutting the 'muster' is a military term, look it up and you may be a better person for it by knowing what you're talking about.
Like your attitude though.
Part-time-Mentor
The word "mustard" was not
The word "mustard" was not misused. "Cut the mustard" means if you can't keep to a certain level. Why not use your mentoring for something you know something about?
The matter of Mustard vs
The matter of Mustard vs Muster seems here to need some clarification.
The earliest recorded use of the phrase "Cut the Mustard" (albeit in a positive sense) was by O Henry in 1907, in a story called The Heart of the West: “I looked around and found a proposition that exactly cut the mustard”. However, nobody seems sure of the origin.
Among the theories in circulation are:
That it comes from an old western expression, the proper mustard, meaning "the real thing" at first and then "the best". There is a suggestion that the use of mustard as a positive superlative dates from 1659 in the phrase "keen as mustard", and the use of cut to denote rank (as in "a cut above") dates from the 18th century.
That it comes from separate meanings of both cut and mustard. Donald Graeme in his Dictionary of Modern Phrase says cut in this sense derives from its meaning of "to perform or achieve", and mustard is "hot or sharp", both of which adjectives have come to mean "able and clever".
That it comes from the Latin monstrare "to show", as in the military phrase "to pass muster", i.e. to show up on the parade ground and not be found wanting in any particular.
So at this point I am undecided on which version is correct and will accept both as suitable expressions of the same purpose.
Can we start by terminating
Can we start by terminating those civil servants that have been on gardening leave for a year or more? I have heard about several people who have not been working for gov for up to 2 years but are still receiving a salary. That is possibly the biggest waste of money.....pi**ing is away in my opinion.
Actually that's a pretty
Actually that's a pretty idiotic idea Sally... These civil servants had the misfortune to be put out to pasture without good cause (mainly for political reasons) and now you want to shoot them in the head while you're at it. You may wish to put them back to work instead and fire those who truly deserve to be fired. Think before you type next time. Think, type, think, type, think, type....
I must agree. If we as
I must agree.
If we as Caymanians are truly guilty of something, it is looking at symptoms and not root causes. We find the first person to blame and puff our chest and walk away satisfied. We stop short of really discussing issues.
Since this governement came to office there has been large scale destruction of our people in a variety of ways.
The CS has always come under fire and, while some of that is justified, look at how our islands' First Premier came to office and axed people who had exemplary performance records. Why? Simply because he had the power to do so. Consider for a moment what that has done to the morale of the CS, and since as other less well known things have continued to take place.
For the 3 year period he has been in office his approach to governance has not changed. This last fiasco of the expat income tax idea is just another example.
These are REAL people. Let's not be like McKeeva and ridicule them for being in a situation not of their own making.
We need to become more objective about things and less emotional. Our issues are indeed systemic (big part of OMOV).
Let's take a more objective look at how we are being governed and what that means for our future. Let's get more informed on all sides of the story, not only the one McKeeva spends government's money on bill boards to promote.
You are absolutely correct to
You are absolutely correct to state that some people with exemplary performance records were put to the sidelines simply because the UDP came into power... Your other statement, among many others, that rang true was the one where you said "Let's not be like McKeeva and ridicule them for being in a situation not of their own making".
I am just going to assume
I am just going to assume that your being sarcastic with your post....your actually justifiying paying people to do diddly squat....tell me this ain't so and that your not involved in the any budgetary processes...if you are it sure does explain a lot.
Ummh, yeah, sorry about that
Ummh, yeah, sorry about that but I am not exactly sure what I ought to be kidding about Sherlock? Are you talking about the 3-4 civil servants who were "ousted" for political reasons - is that who you are referring to? The ones who had a job one day and then didn't because they were of the wrong political stripe - and instead of being fired, they were just told not to show up to work any longer. If you were told one day not to show up any more because you like the PPM instead of the UDP, how would you feel about it Sherlock? Ummh, yeah, thought so. Some of these people were not "let go" because of their job performance, but rather because of who they support/don't support. Do you get it or do I have to spell it out for you further? P.S. Please tell me that you know the difference between "your" and you're" Sherlock; because that too explains a lot...
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