New port proposal surfaces
Posted on Thu, 01/12/2012 - 19:56 in Local News
(CNS): The government could have another proposal to consider alongside its current talks with the Chinese for cruise berthing facilities, this time in George Town. Although government has rejected the alternative put forward by local sea captains in South Sound, this third option keeps the facilities in the capital. CNS understands that a Caymanian led consortium has approached government with a plan to finance and construct the facilities in the Pageant beach area. The proposal would be an all-weather facility with no competing retail that would deliver passengers ashore around one mile north of the current terminals and shuttle them into the down town area.
Sources tell CNS that the proposal from the as yet unnamed group of local businessmen would reportedly involve a direct partnership with the cruise lines and would not depend on upland retail development at the site, which is currently in private hands.
It is understood that an offer has been made for the land that would facilitate this third option for government to consider.
Sources close to the consortium told CNS that this proposal would address all of the concerns that people have about the facility and would ensure that the cruise facilities remain safely in Caymanian hands. The project was described as “ideal” as it would mean the facilities would still be very close to the main retail area in down-town George Town but it would alleviate rather than add to the downtown traffic issues.
The group is said to be offering a guarantee that, with the exception of the marine engineering experts, the bulk of the work will go directly to Caymanian contractors and the group estimates that as many as 2,000 local people could be employed on the project.
The eleventh hour proposal is currently well under wraps but CNS understands that the plans will be submitted to government this week and details of them will be made public before the end of January.
Government is currently engaged in talks with the Beijing based firm China Harbour Engineering Company (CHEC) after the MOU between the premier, the Port Authority and the Chinese firm was renewed in November to extend talks until March.
The proposal with CHEC involves a 51-year lease on the upland element of the development, which would include a range of facilities, including a hotel, a proposal for a casino, restaurants and an extensive retail area with a two storey walkway from the ships.
Meanwhile, a group of local sea-captains have proposed that the facilities be developed in the Red Bay South Sound area, which they say presents a safe all-weather harbour with facilities for up to four piers and a marina, where passengers would be shuttled into George Town from the ships.
The premier, however, recently rejected the proposal as he said the cruise berthing facilities had to be in George Town because of the investment by local merchants in the capital.
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Airport! Caymanian tourist
Airport! Caymanian tourist product! Selected smaller cruise ships at the higher end may be appropriate for Cayman as a diversied filler for the tourist-based economy. However, large numbers of large boats, whilst great for the few and in the short term, are the key to the undoing of smaller islands liek Cayman. Simply, places like Puerto Rico and Jamaica have the land mass to disperse these volumes of people more effectively. The low-rent, soulless capital of cruise-based outlets we now have and the congestion of the hoards of cruise-shippers endangers not only the quality of life for everyone who lives here but the tourist product for those who actually want to spend some time (and money) visiting and experiencing Cayman. I do not believe the residents in Cayman nor the higher-spending overight visitors want to see more and more hoards and the capital town overrun by vendors of over-priced cheap tatty t-shirts and trinkets made elsewhere. It is the natural beauty and authenticity that affords such a great quality of life in places like Cayman and attracts repeat tourism. A dredged out, reefless overpopulated landmass will keep people away in droves and the people left here will resent the quick buck that most people did not even see. Perhaps a better airport facility and careful development to attract higher end tourism is more appropriate for Cayman, Anguilla, St Barts, BVI etc. where the focus is on the natural beauty of the place and some expenditure may build on facilitating Caymanians in developing niche tourism that touches more lightly on the very small resource we have. There is a high value market little-tapped in much of the Caribbean for small, family or locallly run hotels or guesthouses whose USP is the personal touch, local knowledge and advice and the feeling that people are not always spending their $ on some large corporate but directly into a local economy. In places such as South America and South Africa, these places are abundant and prosperous.
We might want to put this off
We might want to put this off for awhile."Travel industry analyst Mark Murphy said since cruise ship vacation industry is still in its infancy in the United States with only 20 percent of Americans having been on a cruise.
"The problem is this could impact the other 80 percent who are yet to try cruises," said Murphy.
He said the cruise industry was already forecasting cheaper fares for 2012 to help counter the impact of the soft U.S. economy and an imminent European recession." Yahoo News
This being the ship that just ran aground.
Hell no !!! Not this
Hell no !!! Not this again.
Downtown - oasis ship docks
Downtown - oasis ship docks and cargo port
Pageant beach - small cruise ship and mega yachts docks
Red bay - left untouched - marine park/ environmental zone left for future generations to enjoy
Here we go again ! Keep them
Here we go again ! Keep them coming ! LOL. Meanwhile Mac must be having a fit - why can't people leave him alone to carry out his plans for the port and stop interfering? Ha ha! However, in all seriousness, Caymanians are beginning to think and consider other options, and that's always a good thing. LOL.
I almost don't see the point
I almost don't see the point in voicing an opinion on these news feeds any more. The Cayman Government obviously could not care less for the views of the people.
Lets stop complaining/ranting/raging about their incredibly ignorant decisions and take real action.
Cayman needs a revolution, along with the rest of the world....
They need to go back to the
They need to go back to the Chuckster's plan to move cargo to the north off shore from Mr. Arthur's Store and redevelop the existing cargo dock into a proper cruise berthing facility.
If the UDP had continued with the Clifford plan, we would have had our berthing facilities completed for this current winter season and rather than having a 25% decline in cruise tourism we would have had the opposite result with much better management of cruise tourism.
To put Ellio Solomon in charge of a project that he knows nothing about and has absolutely no expeience in is the height of stupidity. The Chinese will take us to the cleaners on this project while convincing Ellio that he and Mac are getting a sweetheart deal.
To hear Ellio compare this project to the affordable housing project speaks volumes about his lack of understanding with respect to the magnitude and complexity of this cruise berthing project. Ellio is very clearly in much deeper water than he realises.
The UK and the Auditor General had better keep their eyes on this project.
I think this whole project
I think this whole project should be put on hold until the impact of the Costa Concordia sinking has been assessed. Based on early reports it raises some very serious safety questions about large cruise ships.
According to current reports, the 950 foot long Costa Concordia sank after sustaining a 160 foot gash in her hull but in 1992 the QE2, which is a similar length, survived damage along 400 feeet of her hull.
If this latest incident doesn't raise more than a few questions about the safety of the current generation of cruise ships then someone clearly isn't asking the right questions.
When Cuba opens up, there
When Cuba opens up, there will be no more cruise tourism in Cayman. So why even bother.
So are the ships just going
So are the ships just going to visit Cuba and turn around and go back home ? Think before you put your mouth in gear please!
I have heard so much about
I have heard so much about this port that I have decided to create a new local beer to be called 'New Port'
It will taste similar to greenies but the cow dung gives it a slightly sweeter taste...
Where's Alice? This is a
Where's Alice? This is a good one for protest .. No more tourists on my West Bay Road!!
Always a reason NOT to do
Always a reason NOT to do anything. Which is a good thing when matched by the inability to get anything done.
It seems one is assuming "one
It seems one is assuming "one mile north of the of the current terminals," means Seven Mile Beach. An all-weather facility one mile north of Town isn't posible on the west side of Seven Mile Beach. Unless the term "all-weather" is being used rather loosely. It is however eminently possible on the east side of Seven Mile Beach. This is another in the long, tiresome line of projects and proposals to dredge the North Sound.
YOU ARE ALL WRONG. PAGENT
YOU ARE ALL WRONG. PAGENT BEACH IS NOT OWNED BY DART AND IT IS NOT OWNED BY THE GOVERNMENT. IT IS OWNED BY A PRIVATE COMPANY IN CAYMAN AND HAS NOT APPLIED FOR A PORT LICENSE.
Pagaent Beach should be used
Pagaent Beach should be used for Cayman's own Heritage works, where we can have heritage shows, heritage music and display Cayman's own Heritage crafts. Pagaent Beach is authentic Caymanian and should remain as such. The name should never be changed as it is a historical Cayman name. Remember that!
Why not convert Jackson Point
Why not convert Jackson Point on South Church Street into the Cruise Ship Dock and allow the fuel ships to off load in the northsound by the Marco G building, which will bring the major fuel distribution to one side of the Island, instead of running the fuel lines across the centre of George Town. Since Mr. Dart is already approved to dredge the Northsound, perhaps he can dredge it wide enough to accomodate the fuel tankers. Then we can used the existing Jackson Point, as the cruise ship onloading/offloading facility and then continue to use the existing South Terminal dock, as the cargo dock? I don't know too much about shipping and docking, but I do know some of our History. I recall in 1976 I saw the unfortunate demise of the Kirk Pride and in 1984 the Rhapsody running aground just off Pagaent Beach and she was loaded with people. I do not wish to see any more disasters like those happening again in my lifetime. Take heed my people and handle this dock business with due care and attention. Don't always listen to those money people, they don't know our history. Listen to the Cayman people of the sea.
How many more guests will
How many more guests will come off cruise line with they can dock? How many complaints does the cruise line get from injuries related to the elderly transported on tenders?
If the retail people of GT are protected, the EIA comes in with minimal impact, all the stake holders are protected, the cruise lines gaurantee yearly visitors, the government takes back the port after a minimal number of years, the coffers of CIG are taking into consideration, Caymanian firms/investors are given first option for involvement...
This deal is a winner!!! Give me some thumbs up, wooo woooo !!!
I'm all for a local proposal
I'm all for a local proposal but why do they have to go right next to 7MB. That's a big problem. Why can't they do it downtown. Also, why don't we just build a dock and let the docking fees pay for it. All the retail stuff is what makes the CHEC thing cost THREE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS. and is high risk. How about a dock for $150,000,000 that could actually be paid for (maybe).
Sounds good, i just have one
Sounds good, i just have one concern;how are we doing to secure the amount of tourist that we are all imagining will arrive to the island?
I love this place however Im quick to acknowledge that as a tourist destination it lacks identity. Please remember our visitors will also be visiting other destinations e.g. Jamaica,,Bahamas etc...How do we really match up to these destinations?
Mr Break I think the new port
Mr Break I think the new port is supposed to help us keep who are coming and bring more of them off the ships. I am always amused when the radio stations sing out that we have 2-3,000 tourist in and around town from the cruise ships. What they are in fact saying is thats how much people are on the ships. In reality the number is much lower. Some tourist are not willing to come ashore on the small boats. It should also be pointed that the system that we have takes extra time to take them off the ships and get them back on board. This means that they have limited time ashore. Also there will be some that as you say not want to come and see what we have to offer. These may or will be tempted just to come ashore and walk around town and buy things.
By the way in terms of this new proposal. Anyone remember the Marriott. They have issues keeping sand in front of the hotel. The currents along the sevem mile beach needs to be taken into consideration before the sand shifts again.
Gerry nah gine like dis one
Gerry nah gine like dis one needa. Tru Tru promised him a dock out front Wiking Gallery en he still waitin.
Would someone please
Would someone please interpret this..I only understand english...
WOW!! Just yesterday I was
WOW!! Just yesterday I was having a conversation with someone and wondering why some of Cayman wealth people were'nt interested in building the port and to my pleasant surprise this morning it is the talk of the Town. I don't know anything about dredging but if this is at all possible I hope this idea will be look into properly and urgently. I read where the New Jamaica Prime Minister has been asked to cancel the work going on there by the Chinese and it she decides to do that it will only be a matter of time before Cayman's MOU with them is scrapped - you get my drift? Personally I will be overjoyed about that decision if and when it comes. Perhaps the businessmen/women could also offer share subscription to those of us who might want to be a part of it. I would much rather put my money in something so tangible than having it in a bank at this time and getting no interest on it.
By the time we get someone in
By the time we get someone in Government that is really serious about the welfare of the Caymanian people we will have already squandered more than enough money to build the Port facility in fines and settlements for broken agreements.
I would not hold my breath
I would not hold my breath that Jamaica will cancel anything with the Chinese. Yes there will be some re-negociation, but as the old Jamaican Proverb states. "MONEY HAVE MOUTH".
Never think for a minute that any Politician gets into Power for their physical health.
Unless you have $200.000.000
Unless you have $200.000.000 in bank keep dreaming. We are not talking about a shopping plaza up on Sheddon Road. Most folks can hardly pay their CUC bills much less put their money at risk out in the sea there.
Come on people how about some
Come on people how about some trust in the Government. I saw the proposal's that Mr. Glidden presented during the negotiations with DART & GLF. No guarantees by Gvernment, no taking from existing Government revenue, majority local labour, Port Authority with operational control, very little retail space because we already have enough in George Town, and less than 30 years on the concessions. Now Mr. Solomon and Mr. Bush have promised an even better deal, lets wait and see, if the country gets a better deal then we should be glad and appreciative. Stop the grumbling we dont have money to do it ourselves and the wealthy Caymanians arent willing to take the risk.
This ignores the very real
This ignores the very real problem of sand movement into the dredged out hole necessary for the berthing facility. This location closer to 7 mile beach must answer this concern because we cannot risk the crown jewel in Cayman tourism.
I don't care how you vote in reply to this but the problem must be answered.
Too late! Puppet Mac has
Too late! Puppet Mac has already accepted and has been spending Chinesse Yuan!!
Not exactly but I am all but
Not exactly but I am all but betting they were the myterious pay partner in the GLF deal. It might never be said but teh last time I checked money did not grow on trees otherwise I would be a farmer like you would not believe.
But you are correct in that Big Mac is in a bit of a pickle because HE WELL knows who paid the bill for his gross incompetence with GLF. How he manages to wiggle out of this or if he just simply choose to say ITS SIMPLY TOO LATE. I am betting it's probably the only card he has left and the fight for this new proposal and how afr these people are willing to take it will be very interesting.
If you compound all of this with the backdrop of his potential criminal case. Well scratch that because my bet on that is that it will find the rug. I really can not see our judicial or even our EXTREMELY passive Governor having the "cahones" to go after him the way
Is it true that the
Is it true that the Government has given the Chinese a 50 year lease which is longer than they were willing to give any of the other companies, also is it true that they are going to use some of the existing Government revenue to pay for the docks (unlike what we were told in regards to the other negotiations, will the Chinese be allowed to build tens of 1000's of sq. ft. of retail space to take all of the business from the existing downtown stores? Who will have operational control of the Port? We were told those things couldnt happen and now the rumor is that it will?
Inquiring minds want to know?
its great we have caymanians
its great we have caymanians involved, but its not great that we have to relocate from where it is now....how about we let the CHEC deal run down and have these caymanians take over the current facility and build there?
Poster 13-Jan, 10:29 put
Poster 13-Jan, 10:29 put forward an excellent idea! I hope that the Caymanian Consortium is paying attention.
22:26, you may have a good
22:26, you may have a good point in your proposal, but please for the sake of Cayman stop putting down your own people. Mr Elio Solomon is a good young man of the soil. Give him a chance, He is also young in the LA, he is intelligent, and can make rings around some of them who are ministers. Even if you do not like him, please do not kill the golden egg he will try to lay. Talk with him, encourage him, give him new ideas and let him know you have his back.
I want to see Caymanians, real Caymanians living better in 20 12. I know you can do it. God bless
Hey Elio, is that you?
Hey Elio, is that you?
you him daddy or wha?
you him daddy or wha?
Really?
Really?
I have no views on the
I have no views on the location, but I am pleased to see it as a partnership between local businessmen and the cruise ship companies themselves. It has been amusing to watch a number of local entities come forward and spout off what is best for the cruise lines, but it is the cruise lines that know what they need and want. Give them what they want and they will come in force. I also like the lack of retail outlets proposed. A little less with the rampant in-your-face commercialism is a nice touch and reminder of how Cayman used to be.
No one said there was no
No one said there was no retail at Pageant Beach....you must know something. All the article said was it was close to George towns retail trying to counter what the kirks and Dart will surely say.
You obviously don't know
You obviously don't know much. The criuselines ARE rampant commercialism! What they want is to control ALL business for their passengers even othat nshore.
I wonder what you will be
I wonder what you will be saying if you find out that the "local" businessmen include Mr. Dart? He is 'local', you know?
This proposed site would
This proposed site would bring the dredged hole to facilitate the berthing of the ships closer to 7 mile beach so the effect of natural sand movement along the beach would be compounded.
This is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with and not swept under the rug.
Why are so many people
Why are so many people against CHEC? They have experience in building ports (and much larger projects) efficiently and on-time. They have US$5.2 billion worth of contracts lined up in 2012 already. Caymanians need to realize that the crucial thing here is timing. Further delays will only make things worse. Cayman cannot afford more declines in cruise ship arrivals.
CHEC has a proven track record of completing ambitous projects on time.
As long as the government representatives are negotiating firmly (requiring construction and post-construction jobs for QUALIFIED Caymanians, etc.) yet in good faith, Cayman will benefit from a deal with CHEC.
http://www.chec.bj.cn/tabid/76/Default.aspx
http://www.chec.bj.cn/tabid/120/Default.aspx
http://www.chec.bj.cn/tabid/108/Default.aspx
Until the Goverment comes
Until the Goverment comes forth with what they are proposing no one will support downtown. What about the environmental report? Can you really convince me that Ellio can "negotiate" a $300m contract for us....and certainly not with the Chinese. Downtown and CHEC are absurd.
What I see happening is that when Ellio's smoke and mirror negotiated proposal arrives it will hit a "value for money" wall. It will not stand up to scrutinity. We even know what the KPNG report will say now....good project good contractor good value- just watch.
DUH? Maybe because they are
DUH? Maybe because they are Communist and the fact that is was proven that they were involved in bribery?!
Why not put the cargo dock at
Why not put the cargo dock at Pageant Beach as cargo could route straight down Eastern Avenue or to the Bypass and modify the current cargo dock into the cruise ship dock?
Wasn't this Atlantic Star's plan?
Finally something actually
Finally something actually MADE IN CAYMAN!
It's not fair to the tourists
It's not fair to the tourists to be stuffing them together in shuttles. Add a monorail into town so we can finally have some modernised touches to this rock. It'll be like the Jetsons, only Caymanian.
No, it will be like The
No, it will be like The Simpsons. Monorail! Monorail! Monorail!
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